ATD Chat Thread XX

[jigglysquishy]

100 assists for McDavid. Crazy to see. Crazy we might still get another.

 

[Professor What]

100 assists for McDavid. Crazy to see. Crazy we might still get another.

Yeah, Kucherov got #99 tonight. I'm for sure going to try to see his hundredth and goal #70 for Matthews if at all possible.

 

[VanIslander]

The Rags just clinched the President's trophy, its coach Laviolette coaching his 4th franchise to a divisional title. He is one of only 4 coaches to lead three different franchises to the Stanley Cup Finals, and this season could make it 4, which would put him with Bowman as the only ones to do it.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Crazy that scoring is up enough that we've gone 30 years without these milestones and now they are back. A player with 150+, a defenseman (using the term loosely) with 100, and this year possibly both 70 goals and multiple(!) 100 assist seasons.

Makes me laugh every time I think about the threads of the last decade plus claiming these kind of things were "literally" impossible now because goaltending/defensive "systems"/players are just too good now.

Ahh.. remember when Crosby was the best player in hockey history - like the best possible! - and Lidstrom was the best defenseman ever and also it was impossible for a defenseman to score more than 80 points? Pepperidge Farms remembers.. what is hilarious now is people defending Crosby and Ovechkin and propping them up against McDavid and Matthews with era arguments and stuff. How quickly things change!

It's a bit interesting because goals per game are not up THAT much but on the other hand goaltending has been wonky since the equipment reductions and I really do think that the officiating standard has allowed players to go to the net or camp out there a lot more than in the past. PP efficiencies seem up quite high for some teams too. but its hard to pin down the reasons.

We'll see what happens now!

 

[sr edler]

Most importantly (only half joking), Håkan Loob's record (50) for most goals by a Swedish player in an NHL season, was once again threatened, this time by the guy with the curious moustache, Nashville's Forsberg, but stood the test of time yet again. Forsberg finished with 48. Priorly Sundin's been at 47, Markus Näslund at 48, and Kent Nilsson with 49.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Most importantly (only half joking), Håkan Loob's record (50) for most goals by a Swedish player in an NHL season, was once again threatened, this time by the guy with the curious moustache, Nashville's Forsberg, but stood the test of time yet again. Forsberg finished with 48. Priorly Sundin's been at 47, Markus Näslund at 48, and Kent Nilsson with 49.

Scary to think what HL could have done if he'd like.. tried

 

[seventieslord]

Are you saying Loob has a reputation for not trying? I've never heard this.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Are you saying Loob has a reputation for not trying? I've never heard this.

That is because I am sick and "Swedish NHL record holder" automatically went to Nilsson in my brain because of his monster season but he missed the goal record by 1.

No idea why I mixed up Nilsson and Loob, I blame cold medication

 

[jigglysquishy]

Absolutely insanity that both McDavid and Kucherov hit 100 assists this season. Only other year that happened was 1989.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Glad McDavid was able to gut out at the end of the year to nab 100 helpers. Would have felt wrong him being 1 off the mark, missing as many games as he has.

Kucherov with 1+1 so far tonight.

44-100-144 is historical for numerous reasons.

He's the only winger ever to hit 100 helpers in a campaign.

His 144 points rank 2nd all time for players aged 30. Behind only Lemieux.

I'm working up a list to see where his gap from 144 to 2nd on the team ranks all time. Stay tuned for that.

 

[BenchBrawl]

League is absolute crap right now, which is why we see those crazy numbers.

Sid got cheated out of enormous numbers in the early 2010s because he played in a much tougher league.

2008 Ovechkin would have given Gretz a run for his money on the 92 goals record if that version of him was playing this year. No one is convincing me Matthews is as good as 2008 Ovy.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Crosby hit 94 points, his highest total since 2019.

Depends on when you cut off the birthdays, but he arguably tied Ratelle and Selanne for most points by a 36 year old.

 

[ImporterExporter]

League is absolute crap right now, which is why we see those crazy numbers.

Sid got cheated out of enormous numbers in the early 2010s because he played in a much tougher league.

2008 Ovechkin would have given Gretz a run for his money on the 92 goals record if that version of him was playing this year. No one is convincing me Matthews is as good as 2008 Ovy.

I think the league is much softer, wide open, than 10-15 years ago. By design, to mimick the rest of NA sports.

I don't think it's a talent issue whatsoever. These kids today are elite athletes and extremely well coached before they even hit NHL ranks.

No doubt prime Crosby scores more in this version of the league. Same with Ovi and goals.

I think what's so impressive about Kucherov's season is that he was the overwhelmingly best player on his own team. A team that likely doesn't sniff the playoffs without his production. And his numbers are legendary from a wingers perspective.

The 100 assist mark is special. Especially considering no other W has done it and there have been some studs, in higher scoring eras in a 80-82 game league. Even still the other names? Gretzky, Mario, Orr, McDavid. Pretty impressive company.

It would be interesting to see if any other historical marks by the greats would era adjust to that mark (or above).

I also think the fact that he's almost locked up an Art Ross (Mac needs 6 points in game 82 tomorrow), will almost surely be a Hart and Lindsay finalist, 1st team AS, etc, etc, at age 30 is mighty impressive. Then you get into the gaps between he and other wingers, along with his shares of the team scoring.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I think the league is much softer, wide open, than 10-15 years ago. By design, to mimick the rest of NA sports.

I don't think it's a talent issue whatsoever. These kids today are elite athletes and extremely well coached before they even hit NHL ranks.

No doubt prime Crosby scores more in this version of the league. Same with Ovi and goals.

I think what's so impressive about Kucherov's season is that he was the overwhelmingly best player on his own team. A team that likely doesn't sniff the playoffs without his production. And his numbers are legendary from a wingers perspective.

The 100 assist mark is special. Especially considering no other W has done it and there have been some studs, in higher scoring eras in a 80-82 game league. Even still the other names? Gretzky, Mario, Orr, McDavid. Pretty impressive company.

It would be interesting to see if any other historical marks by the greats would era adjust to that mark (or above).

I also think the fact that he's almost locked up an Art Ross (Mac needs 6 points in game 82 tomorrow), will almost surely be a Hart and Lindsay finalist, 1st team AS, etc, etc, at age 30 is mighty impressive. Then you get into the gaps between he and other wingers, along with his shares of the team scoring.

The 100 assist mark is not that special when two guys are doing it and the next one, a guy not known to be a bonafide playmaker, has 87 assists.

 

[ImporterExporter]

The 100 assist mark is not that special when two guys are doing it and the next one, a guy not known to be a bonafide playmaker, has 87 assists.

I mean Mac has had 3 straight top 6 assist seasons coming into this year.

And even with 2 players doing it this year, the number of players who've done post expansion, is still a very short list.

Now, if we continue to see it happen moving forward, we can revisit.

There is more hockey talent in the league today, than the DPE. No question. The difference is the league has all but taken heavy checking and fighting out of the game, and opened the offensive spigots, like reduced goalie equipment, more PP time, etc.

Sportsbooks want action. Offense drives that.

Still, we've seen higher scoring eras than this.

 

[The Macho King]

The 100 assist mark is not that special when two guys are doing it and the next one, a guy not known to be a bonafide playmaker, has 87 assists.

Number one bullshit.

 

[BraveCanadian]

You can see a definite upward trend in scoring for some players that should be slowing down so that really indicates that its gotten a lot easier to put up numbers recently but I also think the crop of top end stars right now is deeper than 10 years ago.

I also think the league is much softer which allows a lot of players to go into areas they wouldn't go so eagerly in the past - especially the net front on the PP - which I think explains some of the crazy PP % we have been seeing. Defensemen are handcuffed by not being able to clear the net as often without penalty etc.

Goalies seem to be all over the place with no one able to consistently be top notch for a few seasons in a row outside of Vas and even he has struggled with injury recently.

It's a weird time in the league but in general I like a bit more scoring than the DPE and 08-17 so I'm pretty good with it as long as we don't end up going too nuts.

 

[jigglysquishy]

MacKinnon hit 140 points. This is the 7th season in NHL history to have two players hit 140 points. 4 of the others were a Lemieux Art Ross and the other two were a Gretzky Art Ross.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Mediocre defense around the league, a sign of deterioration.

The old school Millennials were actually better at all-around hockey than the new generation.

Plus this is arguably the softest the NHL has ever been.

Sickening to see. Bring back the O6 magic and blue collar greatness. Gordie Howe. Doug Harvey. Bobby Hull. Jean Béliveau. You don't see that much anymore...

 

[BraveCanadian]

Mediocre defense around the league, a sign of deterioration.

The old school Millennials were actually better at all-around hockey than the new generation.

Plus this is arguably the softest the NHL has ever been.

Sickening to see. Bring back the O6 magic and blue collar greatness. Gordie Howe. Doug Harvey. Bobby Hull. Jean Béliveau. You don't see that much anymore...

Blue collar families can’t afford hockey academies. Hockey is shrinking pretty badly I think.

 

[sr edler]

No idea why I mixed up Nilsson and Loob, I blame cold medication

Nilsson and Loob were teammates for a little while (two seasons) in Calgary, before the former player was shipped off to Minnesota. I think they also played on the same line in one Canada Cup, with Thomas Steen as the third wheel.

But regarding the (Swedish NHL) goal record, I actually read an interview with Nilsson in Swedish on NHL.com from January (2024), and he's often low-key funny in his interviews. He said he regretted two things from his hockey career: moving from Djurgården to AIK (big Stockholm rivals, and Nilsson identifies as a Djurgården player/supporter) for one season in the late 70s when the former club was relegated, and not shooting more during the season he scored 131 points in the NHL. He said "I probably could have scored 89 goals then, but I would rather pass the puck than shoot."

I can't think of any other Swedish athlete who could say such a thing without coming across incredibly arrogant or self-absorbed. Zlatan Ibrahimovic for instance said a lot of egotistical things but while charismatic often came across very unlikable, but Nilsson just seems like a chill guy who likes to play golf and hang around sports.

He also gave props to Gretzky in said interview, a brief teammate of his on the late 80s Oilers, saying he was "a wholly fantastic player. Good on the ice, good off the ice. Calm, organised, not cocky in any way. Meticulous with everything he did." And also that he (Gretzky) trained very hard, but we already know this obviously.

His favourite city to play in though (from an off-ice perspective) was not Edmonton but Bolzano, Italy, unsurprisingly giving props to the style and the food.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Neat Winnipeg Falcons heritage Canada clip during the Jets game today. Hopefully it ends up on YouTube so I can post it here

Edit: looks like it's 9 years old and I just missed it.

 

[nabby12]

Neat Winnipeg Falcons heritage Canada clip during the Jets game today. Hopefully it ends up on YouTube so I can post it here

Edit: looks like it's 9 years old and I just missed it.

You missed it by just nine years!

It's a great video though and it was awesome that it was played so much during the Jets broadcast tonight.

 

[VanIslander]

Canada vs. USA in the final.

Frank Fredrickson vs. fellow HHOFer Frank Goheen.

(Goheen saw action in Europe as a member of the American army signal core. Both teams had veterans.)

They all, back in Belgium, mere kilometers from the war front, just two years afterwards.

It must have been something.

 

[Professor What]

I've been doing some player ranking work for my own fun, and I think there might be more movement in some of the position projects if they were redone than we might have thought. We talked about expanding them if we redid them. I've been working on centers, and I came up with 12 guys that have significantly added to their careers (or had their whole career) that would at least compete for a spot in my top 70.

Nicklas Backstrom
Patrice Bergeron
Sidney Crosby
Leon Draitsaitl
Nathan MacKinnon
Evgeni Malkin
Connor McDavid
Joe Pavelski
Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos
John Tavares
Jonathan Toews

Notably, Crosby was 22nd in the previous project, and I'd have him 4th now, and McDavid, who hadn't even debuted in 2013 is knocking on the door of the top 10 for me. I'm not pressing for those projects to be done immediately since there's talk going on about a women's project, but I do think they should be up for review soon.

We don't necessarily have to do them in the same order they were done the first time. I know that some people want to see some more time for someone like Makar, for example, to establish himself, so we could delay the defensemen instead of doing it first. Anyway, just a thought.