ATD Chat Thread IX

[jarek]

The Kessel trade is hard to defend.True that he was a good value in a vaccuum sitting at 21 years old, but he's about the worst type of player you try to start a core with.He's the perfect one to complete an existing core, but this core didn't exist in Toronto when Kessel was brought in.And to get him, he pretty much made sure this hypothetical core wouldn't exist for a long time.

And what was the big rush? Like really? What was it about Kessel that he absolutely had to get him now trading away very valuable draft picks? It's not like Kessel is Crosby or Drew Doughty.He's a very good goalscorer, but to me it seems like far from the number one priority for a team like the Leafs during that time (or now for that matter).

Think about it, say Shanahan trade Kessel and Phaneuf and whoever else, what does the team need first? Certainly not an elite goalscorer at the price of draft picks of this quality.The goalscorer would just waste his talent here and the team would just waste their chance at building a competent core.

This is a very excellent point.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Just for fun. Crazy Leafs firesale idea:

To Detroit:
Cody Franson
Mike Santorelli

To Toronto:
Joakim Anderson
Kyle Quincy
Landon Ferraro

To Tampa Bay:
James Van Riemsdyk

To Toronto:
Alex Killorn
Brett Connolly

To L.A.:
Dion Phaneuf
Daniel Winnick

To Toronto:
Robyn Regehr
Jarret Stoll

To Nashville:
Phil Kessel

To Toronto:
Calle Jarnkrok
Paul Gaustad

To Minnesota:
Tyler Bozak

To Toronto:
Draft Pick

Not sure what the draft picks should be, but there would be more than just the one probably.

New line-up:

Lupul-Kadri-Killorn
Komarov-Jarnkrok-Connolly
Gaustad-Stoll-Clarkson
Booth-Anderson-Holland

Reilly-Regehr
Gardiner-Polak
Quincey-Robidas

More young talent, the veteran talent will actual lead. The tank is real for this year and probably next. Maybe waive Booth for safeties sake.

 

[jarek]

I think that's underselling Phaneuf in the LA deal.

I also think if Nashville really wants Kessel, the conversation starts with Seth Jones.

And I also think TB would have to be giving up more for JVR. He's probably the most tradable asset on the team with a very good contract.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Im pretty sure the conversation ends at Seth Jones too. Dion and JVR would almost certainly come with picks, but everyone knows Dion and Phil have low value.

 

[jarek]

Im pretty sure the conversation ends at Seth Jones too. Dion and JVR would almost certainly come with picks, but everyone knows Dion and Phil have low value.

Dion, maybe, but not Phil. I don't think GMs will look at his current slump as representative of his true value. It is just that - a slump. You know what you're getting with Phil and that is an elite offensive player.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Yeah, that has a poor attitude and is actively being shopped. The Leafs are in a sell low situation.

 

[jarek]

Yeah, that has a poor attitude and is actively being shopped. The Leafs are in a sell low situation.

Agree to disagree then. Teams will be falling over themselves to acquire Phil, especially in the offseason and at the deadline.

 

[MadArcand]

Kessel could be useful for many teams. Jarnkrok + Gaustad would be selling awfully low, really.

But getting anything for Phaneuf would be a success.

 

[nik jr]

Keep in mind that by '60, Howe was in his fourteenth year. 55 begins to look like an outlier.

'55 probably is an outlier, since howe had a shoulder injury and lindsay missed many games. plus they had awesome playoffs in '55 and great seasons later.

i read in a column (i think in montreal gazette) that lindsay was subpar that season, and that that was a major reason howe did not score as much, but lindsay was still in top 10 in points per game, and scored at a higher rate than he did in '56, when he was again 1st AS LW. award and AS thread has limited AS voting results, so i don't know how he fared in voting when healthy.

i haven't been able to find that column again, but i'm pretty sure it mentioned that lindsay was spending too much time yelling at opponents and fans.

but i also think we often put too much value on a couple of comments by sportswriters of past eras. lots of them now say and write things that many of us think are wrong, and make dumb arguments based on assumptions about a player's psychology, and i don't see any reason to think ones of the past were so reliable.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Went back and forth with VanIslander about an avatar-sized version of the logo I posted in this thread...not sure if he got it.

Posting the thing right here.

 

[VanIslander]

Went back and forth with VanIslander about an avatar-sized version of the logo I posted in this thread...not sure if he got it.

Posting the thing right here.

I tried twice but it's "invalid irc" says the HfBoards when I tried to change my avatar to it.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I've been paying attention to Carey Price since he was drafted and people complained because we had Theodore in the prime of his career so drafting a goalie 5th overall seemed like a waste to these short-sighted people.

Then Halak had a monstruous run reaching the conference final and many people wanted to trade Price.

Carey Price is reaching his potential at the age of 27 years old.He was good before but he's a monster now.I can calmly say that he is the best player in the league currently (this season).I really see no one else having impact like this.

He still needs a cup to have a great legacy, and he lacks the award, but at this point he could hardly play better than he does.

He did have a nice run last year before his injury, and he's proven to be an effective goalie in pressure condition before his NHL career.This is without talking about the fact he has the hardest job in the entire league, Montreal's #1 goalie job.The amount of crap and pressure he had to deal with in his young career is incredible.No nerve in this body of his.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

He'd need to fall off hard to not win the Vezina.

 

[BenchBrawl]

He'd need to fall off hard to not win the Vezina.

At this point I see no one in a better position to win the Hart.

 

[jarek]

I don't know if he will win the Vezina. Pekka Rinne is a strong contender otherwise.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I really think Pekka is going to hold off Price and take it, as long as Rinne keeps playing above average hockey I think he's still the favourite

 

[seventieslord]

The Vezina is a two-horse race, unlike most vezina races lately.

without a super dominant year by a forward, I think now is as good a time as any for a non-forward to take the hart, so as of now, best goalie gets it.

or I could be way off base and they could go ahead and just rank the leading scorers 1-2-3 on their ballots like usual, even if they have 2-3 more points than the guys below them.

you'd think that Crosby, malkin, or stamkos explodes eventually and opens up a 5-7 point lead by the end, then at least a forward could get it and legitimately deserve it.

 

[jarek]

If nothing changes substantially I really can't see how Price or Rinne don't get the Hart. Both goalies have their teams at the top of the league.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The Vezina is a two-horse race, unlike most vezina races lately.

without a super dominant year by a forward, I think now is as good a time as any for a non-forward to take the hart, so as of now, best goalie gets it.

or I could be way off base and they could go ahead and just rank the leading scorers 1-2-3 on their ballots like usual, even if they have 2-3 more points than the guys below them.

you'd think that Crosby, malkin, or stamkos explodes eventually and opens up a 5-7 point lead by the end, then at least a forward could get it and legitimately deserve it.

Except that it only looks legitimate because it's not out of place with the last decade of Hart votings.

Is the Hart Trophy "The best player in the league" trophy or is it "the most valuable"? Either way, a 97 pts Art Ross winner Sidney Crosby this year wouldn't beat a Price that sustained his current level in neither definition in my opinion.

The lack of respect other positions get is concerning, though in general forwards that won the Hart deserved it recently.

One exemple of "lack of respect" is Doughty not winning the smythe last year.I'm sorry but he was a monster of stability and the main force behind this cup, but maybe that's just me.Just look at the ice time between Doughty and the next kings defensemen in the playoffs.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

The Hart trophy is the best forward in the league unless seriously pressured otherwise.

Until there is a Gordie Howe or Wayne Gretzky award for best forward, the Hart is a trophy of an asterisk.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The Hart trophy is the best forward in the league unless seriously pressured otherwise.

Until there is a Gordie Howe or Wayne Gretzky award for best forward, the Hart is a trophy of an asterisk.

There should be a Most Dominant Trophy and a Most Valuable Trophy.They will overlap more often than not, but the latter might reward players that take their team on their back without being the absolute best.That way you can still hand a trophy to the best player in the league playing on a powerhouse that would finish high in the standing regardless of his presence.

I just don't know why they don't make more trophies.What's the downside? And why no assist trophy already? You have to admit that's ridiculous.They should've created the Assist trophy at the same time they created the Richard Trophy for goals.This would probably end up being the Gretzky Trophy.

 

[Sturminator]

I've got an idea for at least one "alternative" end-of-ATD-season award: the MVP.

No, not most valuable player, but rather most valuable pick...that is, the pick which most positively affects the fortunes of its ATD team. Like the Hart in the real NHL, I'd expect this award to be tilted towards players on good teams, but this would not be a requirement.

So, for example, last season Gordie Drillon might have won the ATD most valuable pick award. Just staying with past winners, in 2013 it might have been Georges Vezina or maybe even Sergei Kapustin. At any rate, I think this would be an interesting way to honor both clever moves by ATD GMs, and players who are not necessarily high round picks. We could vote on this at the same time as we vote on regular season standings, and post the results either before the playoffs begin or afterwards, if we don't want this vote to affect playoff voting.

 

[VanIslander]

Like the Hart trophy in the NHL, each ATD team ought to SUBMIT their MVP candidate for voting consideration!

LOVE the idea.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Like the Hart trophy in the NHL, each ATD team ought to SUBMIT their MVP candidate for voting consideration!

LOVE the idea.

 

[Sdrawkcab321]

Leafs rebuild begins.


But Nashville wow. Going for that cup