ATD#7-ML Round 1: Syracuse vs. Estevan
- Thread starter VanIslander
- Start date
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
The number three seed
PP1: Clint Smith, Pierre Larouche, Stephane Richer, Hobey Baker, Gordie Roberts
PP2: Herb Cain, Bronco Horvath, Carol Wilson, Garry Galley, Bob Murray
PK1: Metro Prystai, Jim Pappin, Billy Coutu, Gordie Roberts
PK2: Murry Murdoch, Tommy Dunderdale, Bob Murray, Doug Crossman
vs.
The number six seed and the league's best penalty kill units
PP1: Tony McKegney, Mike Rogers, Blaine Stoughton, John Van Boxmeer, Risto Siltanen
PP2: Dave Balon, Mike Bullard, Shane Doan, Joe Watson, Syl Apps Jr.
PK1: Ethan Moreau, Charlie Burns, Ulf Samuelsson, Rick Green
PK2: Dave Balon, Brendan Morrow, Jeff Beukeboom, Joe Watson
PP1: Clint Smith, Pierre Larouche, Stephane Richer, Hobey Baker, Gordie Roberts
PP2: Herb Cain, Bronco Horvath, Carol Wilson, Garry Galley, Bob Murray
PK1: Metro Prystai, Jim Pappin, Billy Coutu, Gordie Roberts
PK2: Murry Murdoch, Tommy Dunderdale, Bob Murray, Doug Crossman
vs.
The number six seed and the league's best penalty kill units
PP1: Tony McKegney, Mike Rogers, Blaine Stoughton, John Van Boxmeer, Risto Siltanen
PP2: Dave Balon, Mike Bullard, Shane Doan, Joe Watson, Syl Apps Jr.
PK1: Ethan Moreau, Charlie Burns, Ulf Samuelsson, Rick Green
PK2: Dave Balon, Brendan Morrow, Jeff Beukeboom, Joe Watson
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
I've been trying to come up with some sort of analysis all weekend for this series but there are alot of players for Syracuse that I quite honestly, don't know anything about. That makes the matchups kind of tough to do. I hope my scouting staff and Kilrea know more than I do.
I can say that Estevan has a pretty nice compliment of strong two-way players throughout the lineup and the blueline is pretty big outside of Siltanen and should be a pretty hard team to play against, especially in our smaller barn. We were also able to add quite a few local boys in Stoughton, Morrow, Balon & Watson.
I think GBC and I were able to balance the two-way guys with some excellent scoring and offense shouldn't be a problem at all. VanBoxmeer and Siltanen were pretty mobile and their first pass out will support the forwards quite nicely.
You have the Rogers-Stoughton chemistry on the first line with minor league all-star, McKegney riding shotgun. A fast and effective line with McKegney being the defensive conscience and doing the dirty work.
I remember Bullard being a huge pain during the battle of Alberta (ask McSorley) Morrow always did damage in the Stars/Oiler battles and Doan is Doan, good all-around player. All in all a good all around second line that should be a pain to play against and more than capable of chipping in a few.
A look at the third line and you begin to appreciate the depth of Estevan (at least I do) Balon who was a pretty effective set up guy, lead playoffs in assists one year and was regularily assigned to check Hull & Howe. Apps Jr was an all-star game MVP, offered a million dollar contract in 75 and was a solid all-around player who peaked with a 99 point season. Carr was a two-time first team all-star who lead the leafs in scoring twice. Pretty nice trio to have on the third line.
The fourth line is the shut down line. Moreau who will probably be named the new captain of the Oilers does all the little things right. Charlie Burns (The Whitby Dunlops alumini) was a perennial Selke candidate before there was a Selke and Flatley the tenacious skater with decent hands. Should be a pretty effective checking line who's also capable of chipping in a few.
I can say that Estevan has a pretty nice compliment of strong two-way players throughout the lineup and the blueline is pretty big outside of Siltanen and should be a pretty hard team to play against, especially in our smaller barn. We were also able to add quite a few local boys in Stoughton, Morrow, Balon & Watson.
I think GBC and I were able to balance the two-way guys with some excellent scoring and offense shouldn't be a problem at all. VanBoxmeer and Siltanen were pretty mobile and their first pass out will support the forwards quite nicely.
You have the Rogers-Stoughton chemistry on the first line with minor league all-star, McKegney riding shotgun. A fast and effective line with McKegney being the defensive conscience and doing the dirty work.
I remember Bullard being a huge pain during the battle of Alberta (ask McSorley) Morrow always did damage in the Stars/Oiler battles and Doan is Doan, good all-around player. All in all a good all around second line that should be a pain to play against and more than capable of chipping in a few.
A look at the third line and you begin to appreciate the depth of Estevan (at least I do) Balon who was a pretty effective set up guy, lead playoffs in assists one year and was regularily assigned to check Hull & Howe. Apps Jr was an all-star game MVP, offered a million dollar contract in 75 and was a solid all-around player who peaked with a 99 point season. Carr was a two-time first team all-star who lead the leafs in scoring twice. Pretty nice trio to have on the third line.
The fourth line is the shut down line. Moreau who will probably be named the new captain of the Oilers does all the little things right. Charlie Burns (The Whitby Dunlops alumini) was a perennial Selke candidate before there was a Selke and Flatley the tenacious skater with decent hands. Should be a pretty effective checking line who's also capable of chipping in a few.
Syracuse was my pick to win the regular season title. But they were also a team that I viewed as definitely beatable once the playoffs begin.
We believe we definitely have the edge in goal. Meloche was one of the top three goalies out there. McNeil was the only one who I looked at and said "he's definitely a better goalie." Gilbert's solid, and I would say that Gilbert-Bouchard is one of the best 1-2 punches in the draft. But let's remember that Gilbert was playing behind an incredible Boston Bruins team from the mid 70s, maybe the best team never to win a Cup, and a lot of goalies could have done what he did playing behind that team.
Hobey Baker had great skill. But we'll see how he does playing three games in Estevan's cozy rink. Hobey didn't like physical play very much, he never played against any real level of competition. How will he do against the physical presence of a Doan, Morrow or Moreau, something he never faced as an amateur, or the two-way game of a Flatley, McKegney or Balon?
Syracuse has a lot of good on their defence beyond Baker's skill. Garrey Galley had a couple of very good seasons with Philly in the mid-90s. Norman Rochfort is solid. Gordie Roberts was always a very good defenceman. Bob Murray was very good offensively. Coutu's a series-long suspension waiting to happen. (He'd be the chief punk of this Syracuse team).
We're very confident of our ability to shut down their top forwards. Let's remember when Smith and Cain had their best seasons: during the Second World War. Cain had one year in the NHL after World War II. Even in the 42-43 seasons and the 44-45 seasons, his numbers were less than spectacular. He had good years - three seasons at the 30-point level in the pre-war days were impressive - but he's not good enough to play top two line duty. Smith did have an impressive 45-46 season - when players were just returning from the war and getting used to the NHL again - and he did manage a 41-point season in 39, but his spot in the HHOF is largely based on his performance when the NHL wasn't the best league around.
Stephane Richer might be the easiest top line player in the draft to shut down. Great skill, but guys like Green, Beukeboom, Samuelsson and especially Watson will play him hard, and when you play Richer hard, he vanishes. If you take a passive approach to Richer, that's when he'll burn you.
Larouche-Horvath is one of the best 1-2 centre punches in the draft. But their options at LW are guys who had their best years during the war, an ubber-soft underachiever. Carol Wilson, a star in the 1920s, is going to have to deliver.
Metro Prystai might be the best checking centre in the draft, but unlike past teams iced by myself and Murphy, we have strong depth, with three capable scoring lines. Put Prystai out there against Rogers' line, and Apps' line will burn you.
Dave Balon is, for my money, the best LW in the draft. Forget McKegney, Smith, Cain, etc., there isn't an LW as good as Balon was. A superb playmaker and an excellent skater, he was a fine defensive forward, too, and only a career ending bout with MS keeps him from being selected in the main draft.
Keep in mind that we were without our top defenceman, Joe Watson, during the regular season. That makes a world of difference. And we still had the best penalty killing in the league. Syracuse didn't lose anybody during the season. Watson would have been our MVP and our top player, and would have made a big difference for us during the season.
We believe we definitely have the edge in goal. Meloche was one of the top three goalies out there. McNeil was the only one who I looked at and said "he's definitely a better goalie." Gilbert's solid, and I would say that Gilbert-Bouchard is one of the best 1-2 punches in the draft. But let's remember that Gilbert was playing behind an incredible Boston Bruins team from the mid 70s, maybe the best team never to win a Cup, and a lot of goalies could have done what he did playing behind that team.
Hobey Baker had great skill. But we'll see how he does playing three games in Estevan's cozy rink. Hobey didn't like physical play very much, he never played against any real level of competition. How will he do against the physical presence of a Doan, Morrow or Moreau, something he never faced as an amateur, or the two-way game of a Flatley, McKegney or Balon?
Syracuse has a lot of good on their defence beyond Baker's skill. Garrey Galley had a couple of very good seasons with Philly in the mid-90s. Norman Rochfort is solid. Gordie Roberts was always a very good defenceman. Bob Murray was very good offensively. Coutu's a series-long suspension waiting to happen. (He'd be the chief punk of this Syracuse team).
We're very confident of our ability to shut down their top forwards. Let's remember when Smith and Cain had their best seasons: during the Second World War. Cain had one year in the NHL after World War II. Even in the 42-43 seasons and the 44-45 seasons, his numbers were less than spectacular. He had good years - three seasons at the 30-point level in the pre-war days were impressive - but he's not good enough to play top two line duty. Smith did have an impressive 45-46 season - when players were just returning from the war and getting used to the NHL again - and he did manage a 41-point season in 39, but his spot in the HHOF is largely based on his performance when the NHL wasn't the best league around.
Stephane Richer might be the easiest top line player in the draft to shut down. Great skill, but guys like Green, Beukeboom, Samuelsson and especially Watson will play him hard, and when you play Richer hard, he vanishes. If you take a passive approach to Richer, that's when he'll burn you.
Larouche-Horvath is one of the best 1-2 centre punches in the draft. But their options at LW are guys who had their best years during the war, an ubber-soft underachiever. Carol Wilson, a star in the 1920s, is going to have to deliver.
Metro Prystai might be the best checking centre in the draft, but unlike past teams iced by myself and Murphy, we have strong depth, with three capable scoring lines. Put Prystai out there against Rogers' line, and Apps' line will burn you.
Dave Balon is, for my money, the best LW in the draft. Forget McKegney, Smith, Cain, etc., there isn't an LW as good as Balon was. A superb playmaker and an excellent skater, he was a fine defensive forward, too, and only a career ending bout with MS keeps him from being selected in the main draft.
Keep in mind that we were without our top defenceman, Joe Watson, during the regular season. That makes a world of difference. And we still had the best penalty killing in the league. Syracuse didn't lose anybody during the season. Watson would have been our MVP and our top player, and would have made a big difference for us during the season.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
I really like the Syracuse fourth line.
And today I noticed the pic on nhl.com of Paul Holmgren, now g.m. of the Flyers, standing with Briere at the press conference where the new signing was introduced, and you can see how big and tough-faced Holmgren looks
323 points in 527 NHL games (decent 51 points in 82 NHL playoff games) with 1684 PIM as an impact Broadstreet Bully. He played linebacker in high school football and I'm sure it suited his aggressive style. An ideal fourth line right winger in the minor league, skilled yet goonish enforcer.
And today I noticed the pic on nhl.com of Paul Holmgren, now g.m. of the Flyers, standing with Briere at the press conference where the new signing was introduced, and you can see how big and tough-faced Holmgren looks
323 points in 527 NHL games (decent 51 points in 82 NHL playoff games) with 1684 PIM as an impact Broadstreet Bully. He played linebacker in high school football and I'm sure it suited his aggressive style. An ideal fourth line right winger in the minor league, skilled yet goonish enforcer.
MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
- 50,828
- 16,558
First, Congrats to GBC and Murphy for this team. It's actually a pretty solid squad, with lots of offensive depth.
I disgress on the fact that the Strippers might have a big goaltending advantage. We all know Gilles Meloche was a good goaltender, who brought some solid playoffs performances, and who deserved a little bit better than being the losingest goaltender ever. This said... I assume Meloche will handle the bulk of goaltending, something he NEVER did throughout his whole career in the playoffs, right? Or will it be Gary Smith, a guy who never made it very long in the playoffs and who only had 20 NHL playoff games?
As for Baker, players adapt to their eras. He was a fast player, whose primary role with our team is to rush the puck out of our zone, and toss it to forwards when the need arises. As it is, nobody in your defense can catch with him, aside of a player who's still the victim of jokes from my Quebec's friends (Siltanen) concerning his defensive play. Talking of Siltanen, I hope for him he never, never has to face my 4th line, which will gets lots of icetime in this series. I assume Sammy and Beukeboom will take care of them, but we're talking about tough AND talented players on this line. And I haven't even talked about what might be the toughest forward on this team, Carol Wilson, which is anything but a lady... He will make space for anybody that needs it. Also, I think this defense will have LOTS of problem generating anything whatsoever offensively, with the exception of Watson, and maybe Siltanen, if he's allowed to play.
Stephane Richer... Well, let's just say that he was rather successful offensively on extremely defensive teams. We all know he wasn't the most consistent nor tough player -- but if the going gets tough and Richer cannot deliver, he CAN be demoted to 4th line/PP duty or even 13th forward status. We have full confidence about our 13th forward (Jonathan) to play any role we might ask him to play. I will also add that Richer is paired with one of the top playmakers of his era, and with a very good offensive player.
Our 3rd line isn't a strictly defensive one. Prystai posted respectable stats throughout his career, Murray Murdoch was arguably the best playoff player after Cecil Dillon in 1933, and Jim Pappin...well, is Jim Pappin, a guy that made a career out of his playoffs heroics.
I disgress on the fact that the Strippers might have a big goaltending advantage. We all know Gilles Meloche was a good goaltender, who brought some solid playoffs performances, and who deserved a little bit better than being the losingest goaltender ever. This said... I assume Meloche will handle the bulk of goaltending, something he NEVER did throughout his whole career in the playoffs, right? Or will it be Gary Smith, a guy who never made it very long in the playoffs and who only had 20 NHL playoff games?
As for Baker, players adapt to their eras. He was a fast player, whose primary role with our team is to rush the puck out of our zone, and toss it to forwards when the need arises. As it is, nobody in your defense can catch with him, aside of a player who's still the victim of jokes from my Quebec's friends (Siltanen) concerning his defensive play. Talking of Siltanen, I hope for him he never, never has to face my 4th line, which will gets lots of icetime in this series. I assume Sammy and Beukeboom will take care of them, but we're talking about tough AND talented players on this line. And I haven't even talked about what might be the toughest forward on this team, Carol Wilson, which is anything but a lady... He will make space for anybody that needs it. Also, I think this defense will have LOTS of problem generating anything whatsoever offensively, with the exception of Watson, and maybe Siltanen, if he's allowed to play.
Stephane Richer... Well, let's just say that he was rather successful offensively on extremely defensive teams. We all know he wasn't the most consistent nor tough player -- but if the going gets tough and Richer cannot deliver, he CAN be demoted to 4th line/PP duty or even 13th forward status. We have full confidence about our 13th forward (Jonathan) to play any role we might ask him to play. I will also add that Richer is paired with one of the top playmakers of his era, and with a very good offensive player.
Our 3rd line isn't a strictly defensive one. Prystai posted respectable stats throughout his career, Murray Murdoch was arguably the best playoff player after Cecil Dillon in 1933, and Jim Pappin...well, is Jim Pappin, a guy that made a career out of his playoffs heroics.
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I remember when Montreal acquired Denis Savard. Richer was coming off his second 50-goal season in three years. Everyone thought Richer would have another 50 goal season, and Savard would return to 100 points. The tandem was so effective that Montreal couldn't wait to get rid of Richer. Larouche is a fine playmaker, but would Larouche be able to do what Savard couldn't. Bottom line is Richer's the type of player who makes linemates inconsequential. He's talented enough to do it alone, but if he's not motivated, he's useless and an albatross for his linemates. Joe Watson or Rick Green would eat Stephane Richer alive. And I think Kjell Samuelsson did a couple times.
I'm not disputing Baker's skill. He's likely the fastest player in this series. I'm questioning his approach and his belief in how the game should be played. It's not that he avoided physical play, he thought it didn't have a place in the game. That's why I have never picked him, even though I wanted to. Baker and Paul Holmgren in the same lockerroom is a recipe for disaster.
Meloche was terrific for Minnesota in the 1981 playoffs. Gilbert wouldn't even be considered for this draft if he wasn't playing behind those awesome Boston teams while Cheevers was in the WHA.
BM67
Registered User
After stealing both road games in Syracuse, the Estevan Strippers had to have high hopes when they returned home for games 3 & 4. Those hopes had to be a little lower after only some late game and OT heroics in game 4 from Gilles Meloche and Patrick Flatley kept Syracuse from returning the favour in Estevan. While Syracuse seemed to have righted the ship with a fairly easy win in game 5 at home, an early shorthanded goal by Ethan Moreau in game 6 set the tone for an easy 5-2 romp that moved Estevan to the next round.
Thanks MXD and EagleBelfour for a great series. The return of Joe Watson made a world of difference. Winning the first two games in Syracuse gave us a boost, and we knew that we would win two of three on home ice against any team in the draft.
So do we re-seed for the next round, which means a series against Springfield, or do we have a bracket, which means an equally tough series with Penticton?
So do we re-seed for the next round, which means a series against Springfield, or do we have a bracket, which means an equally tough series with Penticton?
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
same as the parent draft: lowest seed vs. highest seed wasn't it? someone confirm.
raleh
Registered User
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