ATD 2024 Line-up Assassinations

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,718
3,595

Guelph Platers
1986 Memorial Cup Champions

Coaches:
Jon Cooper

Johnny Bucyk (A) - Connor McDavid - Jari Kurri
Patrik Elias - Nicklas Backstrom - Brian Hextall Sr.
Kevin Stevens - Steven Stamkos - Bobby Rousseau
Don Marcotte - Don Luce - Floyd Curry

Brian Leetch (A) - Emile Bouchard (C)
Art Ross - Drew Doughty
Bill Hajt - Brent Seabrook

Bernie Parent
Tuukka Rask

PP1 - Steven Stamkos - Connor McDavid - Jari Kurri - Brian Leetch - Bobby Rousseau
PP2 - Johnny Bucyk - Nicklas Backstrom - Brian Hextall Sr. - Art Ross - Drew Doughty

PK1 - Don Luce - Floyd Curry - Bill Hajt - Emile Bouchard
PK2 - Don Marcotte/McDavid - Jari Kurri - Brian Leetch - Drew Doughty


Spares:
Dustin Byfuglien - Trevor Linden - Bobby Rowe

 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,760
29,266
Coach: Al Arbour
Captain: Ted Kennedy
Assistant: Viacheslav Fetisov
Assistant: Frantisek Pospisil

#17 Vladimir Krutov - #11 Igor Larionov - #24 Sergei Makarov
#14 Doug Bentley - #16 Vladimir Petrov - #20 Vaclav Nedomansky
#10 Gary Roberts - #9 Ted Kennedy - #15 Eric Nesterenko
#21 Kirk Muller - #19 Derek Sanderson - #18 Ed Westfall
#24 Kent Nillson - #12 Pat Verbeek

#7 Frantisek Pospisil - #71 Jan Suchy
#2 Viacheslav Fetisov - #3 Red Dutton
#23 Mike Ramsey - #55 Sergei Gonchar
#8 Randy Carlyle

#20 Vladislav Tretiak
#1 Tiny Thompson

PP1
#17 Vladimir Krutov - #11 Igor Larionov - #24 Sergei Makarov
#2 Viacheslav Fetisov - #55 Sergei Gonchar

PP2
#20 Vaclav Nedomansky
#14 Doug Bentley - #16 Vladimir Petrov - #15 Eric Nesterenko
#71 Jan Suchy

PK1
#9 Ted Kennedy - #15 Eric Nesterenko
#2 Viacheslav Fetisov - #3 Red Dutton

PK2
#19 Derek Sanderson - #18 Ed Westfall
#23 Mike Ramsey - #7 Frantisek Pospisil​
So you did something, and props for that. That being said - while I respect the effort - Larionov is not a first line center in an ATD. Hell, he's not a second line center. And Makarov and Krutov aren't good enough to make up that gap. This is especially notable when you have Ted freaking Kennedy on the third line.

Your second line is pretty strong. I guess I'd have to think about Nedomansky as a second liner but if that's a knock it's a minor one.

Kennedy on the third line is luxury casting (obviously). Roberts feels like a reach though.

Your fourth line looks like a giant pain in the ass though.

Overall the forward lines... real life chemistry may give you a 10% buff on players but with Larionov you need more than 10% to beef him up to par. And it is kinda wild because I do think Kennedy would work pretty well with that line. That being said - C is already kind of your weakest position relative to the rest of the league (Kennedy is a low-end #1 at most), and you're making that more of an issue by putting Larionov as your top C.

Similarly, if Fetisov is not your #1 Dman why did you draft him? Especially since both Popisil and Suchy are borderline top pairing Dmen at best. Rest of your D is fine and goaltending is fine.

Look - overall this is a balance of "I want to draft a team around a cool theme", and as an exercise in that I love what you did. But assassinating it from a competitive perspective - I think you sacrificed some competitiveness for a cool team. And frankly, I'm glad you did because the team *is* cool.
 
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The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,760
29,266
hogsmeadelunas.png



Hogsmeade Lunas

Coach: Tommy Ivan
Goaltending Coach - Mitch Korn

Jamie Benn (a) - Frank Boucher - Charlie Conacher
Artemi Panarin - Hooley Smith (a) - Patrick Kane
Gordon Roberts - Joe Thornton - Vic Stasiuk
Blair Russell - Ken Mosdell - Scotty Davidson
David Backes (C/RW)

Allan Stanley - Bobby Orr
Scott Niedermayer - Art Coulter (c)
Jim Schoenfeld - Dan Boyle
Lennart Svedberg (RD)

Grant Fuhr
Hap Holmes

PP1
Boucher/Kane
Panarin - Conacher - Kane/Boucher
Orr

PP2
Benn
Roberts - Smith - Thornton
Boyle

PK1
Mosdell - Smith
Schoenfeld - Orr

PK2
Boucher - Russell
Stanley - Coulter

PK3
Benn - Davidson

I'll explain my first powerplay unit because it may not be obvious what I'm going for (it looks like one of Pat Kane or Frank Boucher is going to be banging home rebounds in front - that's not what I'm after). It's modeled after the Capitals' excellent powerplay between around 2012-2022. Kane and Boucher taking turns quarterbacking from along the half-wall while the other sits to the left of the net as a secondary playmaker from the goal line. Panarin is in the Ovechkin spot since he runs that in real life, and Conacher is the other triggerman in the middle, taking one-timers from Kane and Boucher, while also being big enough to withstand some punishment around the slot. Orr is sort of a mix between a distributor and a pointman while being the skater most responsible for lugging the puck up ice to get zone entries started.
Alright -

I love your first line. Great fit. Might be my favorite first line. Conacher is great as a quasi-Bill Cook, and I think Benn will look good doing the dirty work on that line. Second line... Panarin is a reach as a second liner but you have some proof of concept with Kane. Smith is probably overexposed as a #2C but considering where your other players went I get it.

Third line... eh. Thornton was good value but I don't like him as a third line C. Fourth line is fine.

Top pair - what's to say? No notes.

Honestly the whole D after that is still pretty solid with good chemistry.

Here's the big flaw in the team I see. Your D is good but I don't know if your *team* is constructed in a way to keep shot volume down, and Fuhr is probably the worst #1G in the league. He's going to see rubber. And that rubber is going to hit twine. And is the offense good enough to outscore that? The answer is... maybe. Your team is really good. But I wish you put some more care into goaltending because I think that's a pretty big hole.
 

Leaf Lander

HFBoards Sponsor
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Dec 31, 2002
31,941
538
BWO Headquarters
tmlfanszone.blogspot.com
:leafs
Coach;
Scotty Bowman
Captain:
Trottier
Assistants:
Gillies, Day

Roster

Brendan Shanahan Bryan Trottier Brett Hull​

Keith Tkachuk Nathan MacKinnon Rick Tocchet​

Clark Gillies Darryl Sittler Mitch Marner​

Mats Naslund Brent Sutter Jordon Staal​

Brad Richards Gaye Stewart​

Red Kelly George Boucher​

Harry Howell Hap Day​

Flash Hollet Mark Giordano

Wally Stanowski​

Ken Dryden​

Alec Connell​


Power Play 1​

Shanahan - Trottier -Hull​

Kelly -Boucher​


Power Play 2​

Tkachuk MacKinnon Tocchet​

Hollet Giordano​



Penalty Kill 1​

Trottier Staal​

Howell Day​


Penalty Kill 2​

Sutter Marner​

Kelly Boucher​

 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,979
2,361
Similarly, if Fetisov is not your #1 Dman why did you draft him? Especially since both Popisil and Suchy are borderline top pairing Dmen at best. Rest of your D is fine and goaltending is fine.
This strikes me as a problem with how the pairs are listed more than anything else. Just eyeballing our usual estimates for TOI, it looks like Fetisov is in line for about 25 minutes, and well clear of either guy on the top pair as listed. But he may want to order his pairs to make that a little clearer.
I assume for your Bolts, in the past if you had say, McDonough and Cernak on a pair, and then Hedman and a lucky radio contest winner on another pair, you could list that in different ways, but perhaps the better depiction of how they'll be used is putting the big man up top.
 
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The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,760
29,266
This strikes me as a problem with how the pairs are listed more than anything else. Just eyeballing our usual estimates for TOI, it looks like Fetisov is in line for about 25 minutes, and well clear of either guy on the top pair as listed. But he may want to order his pairs to make that a little clearer.
I assume for your Bolts, in the past if you had say, McDonough and Cernak on a pair, and then Hedman and a lucky radio contest winner on another pair, you could list that in different ways, but perhaps the better depiction of how they'll be used is putting the big man up top.
I see you're familiar with Steve Y and JBB roster building.
 
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Dr John Carlson

Registered User
Dec 21, 2011
9,760
4,053
Nova Scotia
Alright -

I love your first line. Great fit. Might be my favorite first line. Conacher is great as a quasi-Bill Cook, and I think Benn will look good doing the dirty work on that line. Second line... Panarin is a reach as a second liner but you have some proof of concept with Kane. Smith is probably overexposed as a #2C but considering where your other players went I get it.

Third line... eh. Thornton was good value but I don't like him as a third line C. Fourth line is fine.

Top pair - what's to say? No notes.

Honestly the whole D after that is still pretty solid with good chemistry.

Here's the big flaw in the team I see. Your D is good but I don't know if your *team* is constructed in a way to keep shot volume down, and Fuhr is probably the worst #1G in the league. He's going to see rubber. And that rubber is going to hit twine. And is the offense good enough to outscore that? The answer is... maybe. Your team is really good. But I wish you put some more care into goaltending because I think that's a pretty big hole.
Thanks for reviewing.

Re: my second line... Once I decided to take Patrick Kane, I targeted Panarin as his LW. Three reasons: his work with Kane makes them a known quantity, he doesn't need a highly-skilled centre to operate (see his play in Columbus, which I think was him at his absolute best), and I knew I'd be able to wait a long time to get him. And it's not like it's early for him to be a top 6 guy in the ATD. If the season ended today, he's got two 1st team and two 2nd team all-stars, and his 7 year VsX would be somewhere around 90. Not much playoff track record, but that's less of a concern to me when he's got playoff dude Kane next to him. As for Hooley Smith, it's as I said above. Kane and Panarin have proven they don't need a skill guy between them, and Hooley made his bones playing with more talented linemates in both Ottawa (Nighbor/Denneny) and Montreal (Nels Stewart), so it's one of those rare cases where it's the centre playing the glue guy role and bringing all that other stuff you need - most notably in Hooley's case, defense, speed, and snarl.

I'm not sure I agree on the shot volume point. The defensive games of my two top centres, Boucher and Smith, were predicated on the hook check and poke check, both of which are skills most useful in transition rather than in defensive zone shifts, where size, board work, positioning are more important (IMO). Shot suppression starts in the neutral zone, so with two elite stick checkers up the middle, that means rushes being stopped before they get anywhere, thus lower shot volume. If anything, shot quality, rather than quantity, may be more of a concern for my team defense, when considering the above combined with Bobby Orr inevitably getting caught up ice every once in a while. But then, that's what got Grant Fuhr into the Hall of Fame, right? Stopping high danger chances when Edmonton needed it most? I won't argue that Fuhr isn't one of the worst starters in the draft, but I don't think he's a poor fit for what I'm going for.

And I did draft a goalie coach to help out on that front!
 
Last edited:

Dr John Carlson

Registered User
Dec 21, 2011
9,760
4,053
Nova Scotia
RICHMOND RENEGADES

Coach: Joel Quenneville
Captain: King Clancy
Assistant: Lionel Hitchman
Assistant: Vyacheslav Starshinov

Bobby Hull - Elmer Lach - Martin St. Louis
Bert Olmstead - Jean Ratelle - Cecil Dillon
Marty Pavelich - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Joe Mullen
Rick Nash - John Madden - Tim Kerr
Ondrej Palat, Vincent Lecavalier

Lionel Conacher - King Clancy
Carl Brewer - Lionel Hitchman
Brian Campbell - Teppo Numminen
Albert Leduc

Glenn Hall
Tim Thomas

PP1: Hull, Lach, St. Louis, Olmstead, Clancy
PP2: Mullen, Ratelle, Kerr, Nash, Conacher

PK1: Pavelich, Starshinov, Hitchman, Brewer
PK2: Dillon, Madden, Conacher, Clancy
I'll return the favour.

Not much to say about the first line, it feels like a good fit all around. Lach has no trouble playing next to a puck-dominant winger like Hull for obvious reasons, and goal scorers tended to get the most out of their game when on a line with St. Louis. Both Steven Stamkos and Vincent Lecavalier won Rockets with Marty as their RW, but they were goal-scoring Cs instead of LWs. Does that dynamic work quite as well now that the goals are coming from the opposite side of the ice? With how much skill and hockey IQ is up front here, I'd say yes.

The second line is interesting. I understand that Ratelle's rep is he struggled with the Rangers in the playoffs when they lacked physicality around him, as he was a bit of a softie. Once he went to the meaner Bruins, things changed for the better. Does perennial Byng candidate Dillon make sense next to him, in view of that? Certainly there's no shortage of toughness on the blueline, and Bert Olmstead helps a lot in that regard, so its not a pressing concern, but still a question to me. For a minute I wondered if Starshinov, purely in terms of fit, was a better linemate for Olmstead and Dillon at 2C, as he scores more goals and plays a tougher game, but that's a fairly steep drop-off in talent and wouldn't be worth it. Talent-wise, I think Olmstead-Ratelle-Dillon is enough, and it's very responsible defensively to boot.

The bottom six looks solid enough. As a rookie ATDer I wasn't sure what to do with guys like Tim Kerr, who you don't draft except to play on special teams, and it feels weird seeing a line with shutdown C John Madden next to him. Did you need Kerr, anyway? Starshinov scored his goals in front of the net too, and he's not being used on either PP unit. Side note - the way you feel about Joe Thornton is the way I feel about Rick Nash. Fine 4th liner, though.

On defense, not a lot to say beyond noting how that top four is an interesting mix of personalities! Clancy, Conacher, and especially Brewer were all free spirit-adjacent to varying degrees. Not really a critique, but an observation. Anyway, it looks solid enough, though maybe you won't get a ton of offense out of them. The bottom pairing helps in that respect.

Obviously, Glenn Hall is a big bonus.
 
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The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,760
29,266
I'll return the favour.

Not much to say about the first line, it feels like a good fit all around. Lach has no trouble playing next to a puck-dominant winger like Hull for obvious reasons, and goal scorers tended to get the most out of their game when on a line with St. Louis. Both Steven Stamkos and Vincent Lecavalier won Rockets with Marty as their RW, but they were goal-scoring Cs instead of LWs. Does that dynamic work quite as well now that the goals are coming from the opposite side of the ice? With how much skill and hockey IQ is up front here, I'd say yes.

The second line is interesting. I understand that Ratelle's rep is he struggled with the Rangers in the playoffs when they lacked physicality around him, as he was a bit of a softie. Once he went to the meaner Bruins, things changed for the better. Does perennial Byng candidate Dillon make sense next to him, in view of that? Certainly there's no shortage of toughness on the blueline, and Bert Olmstead helps a lot in that regard, so its not a pressing concern, but still a question to me. For a minute I wondered if Starshinov, purely in terms of fit, was a better linemate for Olmstead and Dillon at 2C, as he scores more goals and plays a tougher game, but that's a fairly steep drop-off in talent and wouldn't be worth it. Talent-wise, I think Olmstead-Ratelle-Dillon is enough, and it's very responsible defensively to boot.

The bottom six looks solid enough. As a rookie ATDer I wasn't sure what to do with guys like Tim Kerr, who you don't draft except to play on special teams, and it feels weird seeing a line with shutdown C John Madden next to him. Did you need Kerr, anyway? Starshinov scored his goals in front of the net too, and he's not being used on either PP unit. Side note - the way you feel about Joe Thornton is the way I feel about Rick Nash. Fine 4th liner, though.

On defense, not a lot to say beyond noting how that top four is an interesting mix of personalities! Clancy, Conacher, and especially Brewer were all free spirit-adjacent to varying degrees. Not really a critique, but an observation. Anyway, it looks solid enough, though maybe you won't get a ton of offense out of them. The bottom pairing helps in that respect.

Obviously, Glenn Hall is a big bonus.
Being a Byng candidate in the 30s isn't the damning indictment it is nowadays, but fair note.

On the structure of the 4th line. A lot of people go with the "oops all checkers" version and I think that's fine - I've done it a bit myself. But I also like the idea of a like that can chip in some goals. Ultimately I went for a line that is annoying to play against with some special teams benefits. No 4th line I come up with is going to shut down a top 6 forward group, but this one? I could win a 4th line battle. It's more of a territorial advantage than a pure checking advantage, but it is a bit atypical.

Re: the D - I think Clancy and Conacher give a decent bit of offense. Remember they were playing before secondary assists (and even primary assists to an extent) were counted consistently but their play profile shows they could drive play from the backend.
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,979
2,361
I think the key to Macho's 4th line is whether Rick Nash is the right guy to carry the puck the majority of the time. I think it works well, he was frequently a one-man show on some pretty crapass Jackets teams. While this line certainly isn't a similar scenario, I just wouldn't believe in a "shot of offense" type of 4th line if it was a defense-only center and a pair of snipers wandering around waiting for the puck.
 

Dr John Carlson

Registered User
Dec 21, 2011
9,760
4,053
Nova Scotia
Regina Capitals
Coach: Dick Irvin

Tommy Phillips - Stan Mikita - Lanny McDonald "C"
Markus Naslund - Evgeni Malkin - Rick Middleton
Dave Andreychuk "A" - Cooney Weiland - Ace Bailey
Brian Sutter - Butch Goring - Jerry Toppazzini
Extra: Rat Westwick, Bob McDougall

Börje Salming "A" - Alexei Kasatonov
Weldy Young- Joe Hall
Vitaly Davydov - Cale Makar
Extra: Viktor Kuzkin

Patrick Roy
Jiri Holeček

PP1

Tommy Phillips - Stan Mikita - Lanny McDonald
Börje Salming - Alexei Kasatonov

PP2
Dave Andreychuk - Evgeni Malkin - Rick Middleton
Weldy Young - Cale Makar

PK1
Cooney Weiland - Ace Bailey
Börje Salming - Alexei Kasatonov

PK2
Butch Goring - Jerry Toppazzini
Weldy Young- Joe Hall
I'm on a roll now so I'll do another. This time a fellow rookie.

Dick Irvin, as a player, is my dude, but honestly I'm unsure about him as a coach. He coached a lot of great teams but his Cup Final record is really poor, which is already known. I was very surprised when doing late career research on him here for the pre-merger project that I found reports of him clashing with Barney Stanley, who was a true leader-of-men type, as well as quotes explicitly questioning his leadership abilities when he was a captain. It doesn't really fit with how I imagine a legendary coach ought to have been as a player. That said, this is all just a hunch on my part. Moving on...

At this point, Tommy Phillips is basically unimpeachable, so he's fine next to Stan Mikita, and probably brings enough goal-scoring for the part. Lanny sticks out talent-wise as not being a 1st line guy, but I value fit over talent in most cases, so I can buy it. The line, as a whole, is more fit over talent, which I appreciate. One question for the group at large: is Stan Mikita considered to be undisciplined in the ATD? He's famous for cleaning up his act mid-career, but those are outlier years for him in retrospect. Is there a concern that one game we get early, dirty Mikita, then the next we get Byng Mikita?

I'm unsure of the second line. I think Middleton is a really nice winger for Evgeni Malkin, and Naslund is an alright winger for Malkin, but the two of them together with Malkin is pretty soft and a bit redundant, isn't it? I'm not sure what to do with Naslund here, to be honest. Pittsburgh never really used a skilled LW on Malkin's line, but they did use James Neal and Phil Kessel next to him on the right side, which at least bodes well for Middleton. When I think of LWs that Malkin's had, I'm thinking of guys like Ruslan Fedotenko, Carl Hagelin, Kunitz when Crosby was out of the lineup. A glue guy would've been better here in place of Naslund, I think. Or at least somebody with a lot more jam to their game.

Weiland and Bailey is a great shutdown duo but Andreychuk feels weird next to them, especially on a third line where he might be over his head at even strength. But it could work. Fourth line looks strong as a checking unit.

The top pairing looks like a good fit, well balanced, though below average in talent. Nice seeing Weldy getting a look in the main ATD - I think he's fine as a second pairing guy. I'll profess that Vitaly Davydov is a player I only know the bare minimum on.

Obviously, Patrick Roy is a big bonus.

I'm surprised that I don't see both Andreychuk and Makar on the top PP unit, as I don't think you take either guy if you don't put them on the top unit. And there's room for both, with Andreychuk in for Lanny and Makar over Kasatonov. Honestly I might get Naslund in there too... during his 4 year peak from 2000-2004, he comfortably led all forwards in PP points. Maybe Phillips-Mikita-Andreychuk-Naslund-Makar in some formation? I'd put Dave and Lanny on separate units, I think. You've got some really strong pieces for the powerplay.

Penalty kill looks really good, too. Salming and Kasatonov are getting a ton of minutes on all units, though.
 

ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,104
1,391
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo
This strikes me as a problem with how the pairs are listed more than anything else. Just eyeballing our usual estimates for TOI, it looks like Fetisov is in line for about 25 minutes, and well clear of either guy on the top pair as listed. But he may want to order his pairs to make that a little clearer.
By the time he gets his 10+ minutes on Special Teams. Fetisov figures to have the most ice-time of all the Cape Breton Defensemen. He'll have fewer Even-Strength minutes than the Czechs just so he can handle this Special Teams load.

KLM line is one of the most historically significant lines of the last 75 years. If looking at the entire Robson Division, are there any teams there that have a first line that has the talent of the early/mid 80s Team Canada first lines? And yet, the KLM line did no worse than even-steven against those assemblages (and had occasions where they famously outplayed them) during that time.

There are nits to pick with Cape Breton- as there are with any team in a no-trade draft. The expected performance of their front-line ain't one of them.
 
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Hitru

Registered User
Jan 17, 2019
88
111
Regarding Mogilny on our pp. I personally would see him more as a dual threat of playmaker close to goal line or shooting threat when he sneaks to open space to give Oates or Coffey 3 targets to pass to.

He will occasionally dive to goal after rebond or to create better shooting optios for Coffey, but he won't necessary be traditional net guy who only creates screen for goalie and bangs rebounds in.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,760
29,266
California Golden Seals

Coach: Tommy Gorman

Syd Howe-Steve Yzerman(A)-Gordie Howe (C)
Roy Conacher-Sergei Fedorov-Steve Larmer
Craig Ramsay-Steve Kasper-Danny Gare
Patrick Marleau-Gilbert Perreault-Tony Amonte

X - John Tavares Center X - Todd Bertuzzi Winger

Sprague Cleghorn(A)-Jack Stewart
Jiri Bubla-Sergei Zubov
Moose Vasko-Red Horner

X - Jimmy Watson Defenseman

Turk Broda
Curtis Joseph

Special Teams:

PP 1: Syd Howe-Steve Yzerman-Gordie Howe-Sprague Cleghorn-Sergei Zubov
PP 2: Roy Conacher-Gilbert Perreault-Steve Larmer-Jiri Bubla-Sergei Fedorov

PK 1: Craig Ramsay-Steve Kasper--Moose Vasko-Jack Stewart
PK 2: Sergei Fedorov-Gordie Howe-Sprague Cleghorn-Jiri Bubla
I'll give this one a shot.

Love your first line. I mean you get Gordie and you can basically do anything, but you surrounded him with a lot of talent. Well done.

Second line - Roy and Larmer feel like a bit of a reach in a top 6, but that's just gut feels and I haven't dug into the numbers on it.

Third line - probably the most pure shutdown line in the league? Solid but probably not giving you any offense, and Gare especially probably feels more like a fourth liner.

Fourth line - eh I don't really like it. I don't think Marleau is an ATD-worthy player period. Gives you no defense and not much offense. Perrault is a solid player with not totally negative defense, so he's fine.

On your first pair... I mean I know you know the issue with it. A lot of intimidation. A lot of penalty minutes. And frankly I think your spare has to come into play because I build in a Cleghorn suspension penalty on any team with him. That being said - I think he's good value where he goes despite those priors, because he's amazing. Great pair, but you're going to be on the PK a lot. And good on you prepping for that with a very good PK.

Second pair... IDK Zubov feels like a low-tier 4D. I think this is the big hole in your teams - your second line and pair suffer because you put a lot into your first line and pair. No team is going to have no holes but it is what it is.

Third pair - while I get having a theme I think getting Horner backfires a bit when you already have Cleghorn. You don't need more PIMs. On one pair it's fine, but when 3/6 of your Dmen are penalty-magnets you just have to hope that the ref gets tired of having his arm up all game.

Like your goalies - middle of the road but I think that's fine here with a solid defense and good two-way forwards.
 
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The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,760
29,266
Winnipeg Falcons

Coach: Lester Patrick*

Sid Abel(A)¹‡-Peter Forsberg-Bill Cook(C)*†
Jiri Holik°ª-Peter Stastny°-Vladimir Martinec°
Baldy Northcott⁴-Neil Colville*‡-Jimmy Ward⁴
Matthew Tkachuk⁵-Dan Bain²-Phil Watson*
Brady Tkachuk⁵-Bobby Holikª
_____________________________
Derian Hatcher(A)³-Eddie Shore
Bill Quackenbush¹-Bullet Joe Simpson²†
Leo Reise Jr¹‡-Kevin Hatcher³
Andrei Markov
__________________
Charlie Gardiner
Connor Hellebuyck²


Legend:
*=Lester Patrick & players he's coached to Stanley Cups [Patrick, Cook, Colville, Watson]
°=Czechoslovak National Team Teammates, 1975-79, 2x IIHF Gold Medalists & Canada Cup Finalists [J. Holik, Stastny, Martinec- 1st & 3rd entries italicized because linemates]
¹=Detroit Red Wings Teammates, 1946-47 to 1948-49 (2x Stanley Cup Finals & 1 Wales Trophy)-
[Abel, Quackenbush, Reise Jr]
²=Native to and/or flourished in Manitoba [Bain (career w/Victorias), Simpson (born Manitoba, played 3 years in MB for Victorias & Selkirk), Hellebuyck (currently starring for Jets)]
³=Brothers & teammates, Gold Medal Winning 1996 World Cup of Hockey Team USA squad [D. Hatcher, K. Hatcher]
⁴=Linemates, 1929-30 to 1937-38 Montreal Maroons, 2x 1st Pl Canadian Division, 1934-35 Stanley Cup Champions [Northcott, Ward]
⁵=Brothers II, [M. Tkachuk, B. Tkachuk]
ª=avuncular relationship (uncle/nephew) [J. Holik, B. Holik]
‡=WWII Veterans [Abel, Colville, Reise Jr]
†=WWI Veterans [Cook, Simpson]

PP1:
Bill Cook
Sid Abel-Eddie Shore-Peter Forsberg
Joe Simpson

PP2:
Bain
Colville-Stastny-Martinec
K. Hatcher

extra PPers - M. Tkachuk, Quackenbush

PK1:
Northcott-P. Watson
D, Hatcher-Colville

PK2:
J. Holik-Martinec
Quackenbush-K. Hatcher

extra PKers - Shore, Reise Jr.
Here we go:

First line is great. Like it a lot.

Second line... like it less. I'm not a huge fan of Stastny in this format, but he's probably a low end 2C here. Martinec is fine, but Holik seems miscast in a second line role. Probably get some bonus with Martinec if they played on a line together (I'm assuming they did internationally?), but it's a slight hole.

Really like the third line though. Probably not a ton of offense coming from it but should work well.

Fourth line... I don't buy Tkachuk as an ATDer yet. But that's my only note.

On D - that first pair seems like a slightly less psychotic version of the Stewart/Cleghorn pair. I don't think Derian Hatcher is a top pairing Dman here, even when considering splitting up Quackenbush and Shore.

Second pair - feels like you have two rushing Dmen here, on top of having Shore as a rushing Dman on the top pair. I think this is especially notable because Charlie Gardiner is not an elite goaltender in this format - fits more in that muddy middle. So there's a lot of chances for Dmen to get caught up ice.

Third pair - Don't really love Kevin Hatcher as a regular either but I'm pretty hard on DPE Dmen reps in general so take that with a grain of salt.

Gardiner is fine - middle of the road guy. Helleybuck is certainly building a hell of an ATD resume right now.

Overall - really strong team but (as with all teams) there are some holes.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,718
3,595
Coach: Al Arbour
Captain: Ted Kennedy
Assistant: Viacheslav Fetisov
Assistant: Frantisek Pospisil

#17 Vladimir Krutov - #11 Igor Larionov - #24 Sergei Makarov
#14 Doug Bentley - #16 Vladimir Petrov - #20 Vaclav Nedomansky
#10 Gary Roberts - #9 Ted Kennedy - #15 Eric Nesterenko
#21 Kirk Muller - #19 Derek Sanderson - #18 Ed Westfall
#24 Kent Nillson - #12 Pat Verbeek

#7 Frantisek Pospisil - #71 Jan Suchy
#2 Viacheslav Fetisov - #3 Red Dutton
#23 Mike Ramsey - #55 Sergei Gonchar
#8 Randy Carlyle

#20 Vladislav Tretiak
#1 Tiny Thompson

PP1
#17 Vladimir Krutov - #11 Igor Larionov - #24 Sergei Makarov
#2 Viacheslav Fetisov - #55 Sergei Gonchar

PP2
#20 Vaclav Nedomansky
#14 Doug Bentley - #16 Vladimir Petrov - #15 Eric Nesterenko
#71 Jan Suchy

PK1
#9 Ted Kennedy - #15 Eric Nesterenko
#2 Viacheslav Fetisov - #3 Red Dutton

PK2
#19 Derek Sanderson - #18 Ed Westfall
#23 Mike Ramsey - #7 Frantisek Pospisil​

Going to fire through some teams with my thoughts while I have a little time -

Love the combination of Al Arbour and Ted Kennedy -- Kennedy is a player that Arbour would have loved. I love the Russian / European concept but I'm not convinced that Arbour (who I am generally very high on) would get the optimal use of them and as others have pointed out - Suchy is a bad pick in this concept but I guess we can ignore geopolitics here. :) The concept also falls apart a bit outside the top lines.

Reuniting the KLM line is totally awesome ,and they will be more than the sum of their parts, but Larionov is individually going to be on the wrong end of any head-to-head matchups against other lines power on power by a large degree.

I could be wrong but I see Petrov as lower end #2 and that puts you in real bad shape at center which is a position that is completely emphasized in Soviet style hockey. Kennedy is a rich 3rd pairing guy, a great all around player, and a great captain.. but how much impact is he going to make in 3rd line minutes with no PP time?

Listing Fetisov on the second pairing is unusual but I get from up thread what you're doing.

Obviously Tretiak is solid between the pipes.

Overall, I like the idea but it is tough sometimes when you try to go in on a theme because you end up giving up value to get fit and you can corner yourself. (I've done it too!)
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,718
3,595
Regina Capitals
Coach: Dick Irvin

Tommy Phillips - Stan Mikita - Lanny McDonald "C"
Markus Naslund - Evgeni Malkin - Rick Middleton
Dave Andreychuk "A" - Cooney Weiland - Ace Bailey
Brian Sutter - Butch Goring - Jerry Toppazzini
Extra: Rat Westwick, Bob McDougall

Börje Salming "A" - Alexei Kasatonov
Weldy Young- Joe Hall
Vitaly Davydov - Cale Makar
Extra: Viktor Kuzkin

Patrick Roy
Jiri Holeček

PP1

Tommy Phillips - Stan Mikita - Lanny McDonald
Börje Salming - Alexei Kasatonov

PP2
Dave Andreychuk - Evgeni Malkin - Rick Middleton
Weldy Young - Cale Makar

PK1
Cooney Weiland - Ace Bailey
Börje Salming - Alexei Kasatonov

PK2
Butch Goring - Jerry Toppazzini
Weldy Young- Joe Hall

I like the Phillips - Mikita - McDonald line from a check all the boxes perspective but I think that while Mikita is one of the better two-way centers you can pick, the wingers and especially McDonald are on the weak side for a 1st line in the ATD.

Second line is pretty decent offensively - especially because of Malkin - but outside Middleton's two-way play, a non-factor away from the puck both defensively and physically.

Weiland is pretty rich offensively on a 3rd line here but Bailey and Andreychuk are basically specialists.. not sure what you were going for here.. but at least you got Andreychuk on the PP which is the only place he belongs in the ATD pretty much.

First pairing I like quite a bit with Salming and Kasatonov being the right handedness and a pretty solid all around pairing. Love Cale Makar but not a fan of him being in the starting six at this point.

Roy is amazing especially in the playoffs so you're all set there obviously.

The PP suffers from your weaker offensive wingers again and I'm shocked you don't have your (likely) best offensive winger (Naslund) on there - especially because he's a guy who was dependent on the PP for a lot of his offense.

PK looks pretty good except you're running Salming and Kasatonov pretty hard.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,718
3,595
California Golden Seals

Coach: Tommy Gorman

Syd Howe-Steve Yzerman(A)-Gordie Howe (C)
Roy Conacher-Sergei Fedorov-Steve Larmer
Craig Ramsay-Steve Kasper-Danny Gare
Patrick Marleau-Gilbert Perreault-Tony Amonte

X - John Tavares Center X - Todd Bertuzzi Winger

Sprague Cleghorn(A)-Jack Stewart
Jiri Bubla-Sergei Zubov
Moose Vasko-Red Horner

X - Jimmy Watson Defenseman

Turk Broda
Curtis Joseph

Special Teams:

PP 1: Syd Howe-Steve Yzerman-Gordie Howe-Sprague Cleghorn-Sergei Zubov
PP 2: Roy Conacher-Gilbert Perreault-Steve Larmer-Jiri Bubla-Sergei Fedorov

PK 1: Craig Ramsay-Steve Kasper--Moose Vasko-Jack Stewart
PK 2: Sergei Fedorov-Gordie Howe-Sprague Cleghorn-Jiri Bubla

Great first line this year tony. Damn.

Second line has some oomph offensively from Conacher and Fedorov and good all around play from Fedorov and Larmer but Larmer is a bit weak here offensively I think.

Third line is a good old school checking line and Kaspar can shadow too.

Fourth line can really skate and will create some offense but imo they will get caved-in defensively and physically.

Cleghorn and Stewart is a murderer's row physically but they are going to spend a lot of time in the box, too. Relying on Stewart for your #1 penalty kill might be a problem.

Bubla and Zubov is a slick pairing but may be a bit too mobile and offensive leaning to lock it down when needed?

Broda and Joseph is a solid tandem and Gorman is a solid coach too!

Drumheller Dinosaurs

John LeClair / Mario Lemieux (A) / Marian Hossa
Zach Parise / Mats Sundin / Jarome Iginla
Michel Goulet / Rod Brind'amour (C) / Jack Walker
Sid Smith / Dave Poulin / Vladimir Vikulov
Spares: Dale Hunter, Phil Kessel

Rod Langway / Pierre Pilote (A)
Vladimir Lutchenko / Al MacInnis
Gus Mortson / Brian Rafalski
Spare: Robert Svehla

Johnny Bower
Carey Price

Coach: Art Ross

PP1
Leclair
Lemieux - Goulet
MacInnis - Rafalski

PP2
Brind'amour
Iginla - Sundin - Vikulov
Pilote

PK1
Brind'amour - Walker
Langway - Mortson

PK2
Poulin - Hossa
Lutchenko - MacInnis

LeClair - Lemieux - Hossa is pretty damn solid. LeClair fills the Stevens role here as a guy with the size and strength to get the puck back or cycle and get to the front of the net. Hossa gives the line a bit of defensive responsibility - which you need cause Lemieux doesn't have it most of the time - and he has the skill to keep up too.

Second line is weak to me. I think I've drafted Parise before and he is a hard working and talented player but maybe out of his depth offensively on an ATD second line. Sundin is solid and brings good offense and some defensive responsibility to add to Parise's.. Iginla is a stud. I would have liked a better LW or a center that could get the puck to Iginla more than Sundin but if nothing else Sundin and Iginla will be tough for teams to handle physically if they cycle.

Langway - Pilote is just a great pairing and I think Lutchenko and MacInnis is good too.

Bower and Price are really good as a tandem.

For special teams I get where you are going but Rod Brind'amour doesn't have any business on an ATD PP in my opinion. Sitting Hossa for him is madness.

Chicago Shamrocks


Coach: Hap Day

Alexander Ovechkin (A) - Mike Modano - Alexander Maltsev
Steve Shutt - Norm Ullman - Guy Lafleur
John Tonelli - Jonathan Toews (A) - Larry Aurie
Bob Davidson - Aleksander Barkov - Joe Pavelski



Victor Hedman - Eddie Gerard (C)
Roman Josi -
Jimmy Thomson
Jim Neilson - Terry Harper


Andrei Vasilevskiy
Roy Worters
(About a 60/40 split in the regular season, Vasilevskiy will get the reins in the playoffs)


Spares: Barry Beck, Walt Tkaczuk, Rejean Houle


PP1
Pavelski
Ovechkin - Maltsev - Lafleur
Josi

PP2
Tonelli
Ovechkin/Toews - Ullman - Lafleur/Modano
Hedman


PK1
Modano - Aurie
Gerard - Harper

PK2
Toews - Barkov
Neilson - Thomson

Extra PK F: Pavelski
Extra PK D: Hedman

Splitting up Ovechkin and Lafleur makes a lot of sense to get some depth out of your best players. Modano is a lower end first line center in a draft this size but I get you probably got him for speed and some defense on this line. Maltsev has the creativity to get something out of Ovechkin too.

The second line is pretty much Lafleur's Habs line with Ullman in the Lemaire role so that's pretty solid for chemistry even if Shutt is pretty weak offensively individually on a second line here. Ullman gives them a great forechecker and a guy who will dog other centers but this line doesn't have much physicality I don't think.

I like the defensive pairs and my son was hoping to grab Josi at once point before you drafted him.

Not a fan of Tonelli on the PP in an ATD and I'd be a little concerned about counter-attacking PKers with the batch of players on your first PP but they will score.

ok boys, it's your job to turn this into a championship contender:

Head Coach Fred Shero

Captain: Bobby Clarke
Alternate Captains: Larry Robinson, Newsy Lalonde

Kariya - Clarke - Bathgate
Noble - Lalonde - Anderson
Propp - Carbonneau - Finnigan
Rusty Crawford - Hawerchuk - Bondra

Robinson - Stuart
Boon - Mantha
Wilson/McDonagh - Heller

Vezina
Barrasso

Bench
Hodge
Kovalev

PP1:
Clarke
Bathgate - Lalonde - Kariya
Robinson

PP2:
Anderson
H. Stuart - Hawerchuk - Bondra
Boon

PK1: Robinson, Mantha, Carbo, Propp
PK2: McDonagh, H. Stuart, Clarke, Finnigan

Shero and Bobby Clarke is a pretty solid win.

The first line is ultra soft for a Bobby Clarke line imo. When he stirs up his nonsense he's gonna get killed out there and there is no one to go to the boards and really win puck battles. Off the rush they will be great with the skill on that line, and Clarke is obviously a great two-way center, but as soon as it goes to the boards or the corner they are doomed.

Robinson and Stuart is a really solid first pairing and I like Mantha too.

Robinson might be overworked here playing 1st pairing, PP1 and PK1.

McDonagh was a great pickup as a PK specialist (I wanted him!) and he might be able to move up and cover that spot for Robinson to be hnoest.
 
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tinyzombies

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Dec 24, 2002
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Montreal, QC, Canada
Great first line this year tony. Damn.

Second line has some oomph offensively from Conacher and Fedorov and good all around play from Fedorov and Larmer but Larmer is a bit weak here offensively I think.

Third line is a good old school checking line and Kaspar can shadow too.

Fourth line can really skate and will create some offense but imo they will get caved-in defensively and physically.

Cleghorn and Stewart is a murderer's row physically but they are going to spend a lot of time in the box, too. Relying on Stewart for your #1 penalty kill might be a problem.

Bubla and Zubov is a slick pairing but may be a bit too mobile and offensive leaning to lock it down when needed?

Broda and Joseph is a solid tandem and Gorman is a solid coach too!



LeClair - Lemieux - Hossa is pretty damn solid. LeClair fills the Stevens role here as a guy with the size and strength to get the puck back or cycle and get to the front of the net. Hossa gives the line a bit of defensive responsibility - which you need cause Lemieux doesn't have it most of the time - and he has the skill to keep up too.

Second line is weak to me. I think I've drafted Parise before and he is a hard working and talented player but maybe out of his depth offensively on an ATD second line. Sundin is solid and brings good offense and some defensive responsibility to add to Parise's.. Iginla is a stud. I would have liked a better LW or a center that could get the puck to Iginla more than Sundin but if nothing else Sundin and Iginla will be tough for teams to handle physically if they cycle.

Langway - Pilote is just a great pairing and I think Lutchenko and MacInnis is good too.

Bower and Price are really good as a tandem.

For special teams I get where you are going but Rod Brind'amour doesn't have any business on an ATD PP in my opinion. Sitting Hossa for him is madness.



Splitting up Ovechkin and Lafleur makes a lot of sense to get some depth out of your best players. Modano is a lower end first line center in a draft this size but I get you probably got him for speed and some defense on this line. Maltsev has the creativity to get something out of Ovechkin too.

The second line is pretty much Lafleur's Habs line with Ullman in the Lemaire role so that's pretty solid for chemistry even if Shutt is pretty weak offensively individually on a second line here. Ullman gives them a great forechecker and a guy who will dog other centers but this line doesn't have much physicality I don't think.

I like the defensive pairs and my son was hoping to grab Josi at once point before you drafted him.

Not a fan of Tonelli on the PP in an ATD and I'd be a little concerned about counter-attacking PKers with the batch of players on your first PP but they will score.



Shero and Bobby Clarke is a pretty solid win.

The first line is ultra soft for a Bobby Clarke line imo. When he stirs up his nonsense he's gonna get killed out there and there is no one to go to the boards and really win puck battles. Off the rush they will be great with the skill on that line, and Clarke is obviously a great two-way center, but as soon as it goes to the boards or the corner they are doomed.

Robinson and Stuart is a really solid first pairing and I like Mantha too.

Robinson might be overworked here playing 1st pairing, PP1 and PK1.

McDonagh was a great pickup as a PK specialist (I wanted him!) and he might be able to move up and cover that spot for Robinson to be hnoest.
Agreed. I'll fix and put Noble back there for the dirty work and great passing too. There was an advanced stats study that showed having three guys who can make a play on a line elevated the line to elite- you don't need to have the standard digger-passer-scorer every time.

Also, I have Robinson and Hod Stuart on the ice with the Clarke line, now with Noble. So no one will mess there. As for Bathgate: "Normally mild mannered, Bathgate proved to be one of the best NHL fighters when aroused and very rarely got anything worse than a draw." (Majestic Andy Bathgate was 'the Beliveau of the Blueshirts', The Hockey News.)

Head Coach Fred Shero

Captain: Bobby Clarke
Alternate Captains: Larry Robinson, Newsy Lalonde

Noble - Clarke - Bathgate
Kariya - Lalonde - Anderson
Propp - Carbonneau - Finnigan
Rusty Crawford - Hawerchuk - Bondra

Robinson - H.Stuart
Boon - S.Mantha
D.Wilson/McDonagh - Heller

Vezina
Barrasso

Bench
Hodge
Kovalev

PP1:
Clarke
Bathgate - Lalonde - Kariya
Robinson

PP2:
Anderson
H. Stuart - Hawerchuk - Bondra
Boon

PK1: McDonagh, Mantha, Carbo, Propp
PK2: Robinson, H. Stuart, Clarke, Finnigan
 
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MVP of West Hollywd

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
3,530
978
For special teams I get where you are going but Rod Brind'amour doesn't have any business on an ATD PP in my opinion. Sitting Hossa for him is madness.

I had Brind'amour as worse than Parise and Sid Smith as net front power play guy but I thought his face offs had extra value to possibly make up for it, maybe that was a mistake though.

I never felt great about Parise on 2nd line and how 2nd line turned out overall I admit. I think Goulet was a proper 2nd line caliber LW and Parise is passable as 3rd line, but I switched them for fit reasons. Sundin wasn't quite strong enough on defense for me to feel comfortable putting a finesse one way winger beside him and Iginla so I left myself in a pretty tough spot having to fill that LW in the 300s compared to if I had taken a center higher enough to get a player like Kopitar. Goulet is solid on defense but offensively it seems like him, Sundin and Iginla on same line is maybe overdoing it in terms of goal scoring stars. I can replace Vikulov with Hossa on PP2, not sure why I didn't do that earlier, I guess I wanted Vikulov pass first style but I had been sleeping on how good some of Hossa's power play seasons were, frankly better than Iginla's.
 
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Dr John Carlson

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Dec 21, 2011
9,760
4,053
Nova Scotia
Chicago Shamrocks


Coach: Hap Day

Alexander Ovechkin (A) - Mike Modano - Alexander Maltsev
Steve Shutt - Norm Ullman - Guy Lafleur
John Tonelli - Jonathan Toews (A) - Larry Aurie
Bob Davidson - Aleksander Barkov - Joe Pavelski



Victor Hedman - Eddie Gerard (C)
Roman Josi -
Jimmy Thomson
Jim Neilson - Terry Harper


Andrei Vasilevskiy
Roy Worters
(About a 60/40 split in the regular season, Vasilevskiy will get the reins in the playoffs)


Spares: Barry Beck, Walt Tkaczuk, Rejean Houle


PP1
Pavelski
Ovechkin - Maltsev - Lafleur
Josi

PP2
Tonelli
Ovechkin/Toews - Ullman - Lafleur/Modano
Hedman


PK1
Modano - Aurie
Gerard - Harper

PK2
Toews - Barkov
Neilson - Thomson

Extra PK F: Pavelski
Extra PK D: Hedman
I think this team is really good top to bottom, I can buy Hap Day as the coach based on the logic you provided when you picked him, but I just wanted to add my thoughts on the top line since I'm a Capitals guy and Ovechkin is my dude.

Mike Modano is a really good centre for him, and not just because he brings defense. Ovechkin could really use another player on his line to carry the puck, as he's very much a north/south guy as a puck carrier rather than east/west. Envision a peak Alex Ovechkin rush in your head, and the same image comes to mind: steaming down the left side, slight cut inside towards the dot, shoot through the defender's leg. North/south. More variety is needed, which means having a second guy to lug the mail is a requirement. Evidence - by far his best playoff showing post-peak is when Evgeny Kuznetsov, an elite puck carrier when actually playing hockey rather than going through motions, turned into a top-10 player for a few months. Modano can be that guy thanks to his speed, and because Ovechkin is, as I said, a north/south dude, it's better to have that second puck carrier be the centre, who has less ice to navigate when dishing the puck to him, rather than a winger like Lafleur would've been had you not separated them on two lines.

Maltsev, I think, is solid but not great. More creativity when playing with Ovechkin is never a bad thing but I always found that 8 brings his best stuff when he's got another physical player on the ice with him, ideally on his wing. Tom Wilson is the most obvious example but even a guy like Mike Knuble, who was stapled to his wing even when the more Maltsev-esque Alex Semin was an option, did really well next to him. I think this is because if Ovechkin is the one setting the tone physically, he'll have a tendency to chase the big hit too much, at the expense of staying involved in the play. Another big hitter to feed off of, to lessen the burden on him to be the tone-setter and keep his physicality more focused, was really beneficial for his off-the-puck game. That being said, when the Caps were down a goal late in games, they would often swap Knuble with Semin and go full firewagon hockey to tie it up, so it's not like Maltsev sucks in this spot. It'll definitely work.

And yeah, Ovechkin under Trotz, in the defensive zone, was basically just making sure he was in the shooting lane by the right point and providing token puck pressure when the point man held onto it. A structured defensive coach like Day will easily be able to get him to do that. I don't see any issues with the fit there.
 
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Claude The Fraud

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Apr 2, 2008
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So you did something, and props for that. That being said - while I respect the effort - Larionov is not a first line center in an ATD. Hell, he's not a second line center. And Makarov and Krutov aren't good enough to make up that gap. This is especially notable when you have Ted freaking Kennedy on the third line.

Your second line is pretty strong. I guess I'd have to think about Nedomansky as a second liner but if that's a knock it's a minor one.

Kennedy on the third line is luxury casting (obviously). Roberts feels like a reach though.

Your fourth line looks like a giant pain in the ass though.
Canada Cup Canada
Overall the forward lines... real life chemistry may give you a 10% buff on players but with Larionov you need more than 10% to beef him up to par. And it is kinda wild because I do think Kennedy would work pretty well with that line. That being said - C is already kind of your weakest position relative to the rest of the league (Kennedy is a low-end #1 at most), and you're making that more of an issue by putting Larionov as your top C.

Similarly, if Fetisov is not your #1 Dman why did you draft him? Especially since both Popisil and Suchy are borderline top pairing Dmen at best. Rest of your D is fine and goaltending is fine.

Look - overall this is a balance of "I want to draft a team around a cool theme", and as an exercise in that I love what you did. But assassinating it from a competitive perspective - I think you sacrificed some competitiveness for a cool team. And frankly, I'm glad you did because the team *is* cool.
Thanks for the good comments!

And, yes, I knew that as much as cool it would be to reunite the KLM and aiming for the Green Unit, missed Kasatonov by 1 pick, as much having Larionov as a 1C would be held against me. I get your point that Krutov and Makarov aren't good enought to make up for it, but I think you're are underevaluating peak Krutov and peak Makarov,

Peak Makarov has shown trough Canada Cup and Super Series that he had the talent to be the best player on the ice against the best NHLers.

Also, in his bio, there's an excellent post in his bio from TheDevilMadeMe, with stats showing that Makarov was one of the best point producer of his group age during his NHL career. So even if he was past his prime, he was still one the best amongst players past their prime.

Many night, Makarov will be one one of the top two forward on the ice. No, he's not a center, but he's a player who can compete with the best of them.

For Krutov, his NHL career is something most of us would like to forget. The guy wasn't the shadow of the man they used to call 'The Tank'. Long gone was one of the best forward of the 1987 Canada Cup. Seaking of the numerous Canada Cup, this is an other guy who well averaged over a point per match against top competition. In fact, he has He just never could adjust to life in Nort America.

Krutov is another player who has the potential to be on the best player on the ice, even if he isn't the best ranked one

For Larionov, I know he isn't a first center in an ATD, but the KLM is first line line in an ATD.

Missing out Kasatonov killed me. With him, I would have had a really better top 4 defenseman. Instead, I kept looking for that other Russian defenseman to replace him. Also, what didn't help my cause, is that I drafted Gonchar to play with Fetisov. For whatever reason, I was sure Gonchar was at least a righty, but he isn't even one... And now, I can admit that he wasn't the good fit, even if he had been a righty. In the end, I was made the proposal of playing Fetisov on the second pair with Dutton, who would make more sense as a partner on a top four for Fetisov than Gonchar. Unfortunately, Dutton isn't first pair material. Which lead me to made the better than average second pair of Suchy - Pospisil a weak first pair. However, a Fetisov on the second pair give me a luxury not a lot of team have. Also, that way, our power-play and penalty-kill will greatly benefit of a second pair playing Fetisov.

In the end, you're totally right. My team is cool. But , yeah, I may have got sacrificed a bit of value.
Again, missing out on Kasatonov killed me in many ways,


Going to fire through some teams with my thoughts while I have a little time -

Love the combination of Al Arbour and Ted Kennedy -- Kennedy is a player that Arbour would have loved. I love the Russian / European concept but I'm not convinced that Arbour (who I am generally very high on) would get the optimal use of them and as others have pointed out - Suchy is a bad pick in this concept but I guess we can ignore geopolitics here. :) The concept also falls apart a bit outside the top lines.

Reuniting the KLM line is totally awesome ,and they will be more than the sum of their parts, but Larionov is individually going to be on the wrong end of any head-to-head matchups against other lines power on power by a large degree.

I could be wrong but I see Petrov as lower end #2 and that puts you in real bad shape at center which is a position that is completely emphasized in Soviet style hockey. Kennedy is a rich 3rd pairing guy, a great all around player, and a great captain.. but how much impact is he going to make in 3rd line minutes with no PP time?

Listing Fetisov on the second pairing is unusual but I get from up thread what you're doing.

Obviously Tretiak is solid between the pipes.

Overall, I like the idea but it is tough sometimes when you try to go in on a theme because you end up giving up value to get fit and you can corner yourself. (I've done it too!)

I know this isn't the ideal line-up geo-politically speaking line-up, but I had the impression a guy like the motivator who Al Arbour is and the tenacious leader Ted Kennedy is, they would be able to make that group of player work together.

I know Larionov is my main weakness, but power on power against other lines, Kruto and Makarov will fare pretty well against competiion.

For Kennedy, you're right, I might as well play him on the second power-play.

And I agree with you, I gave up value for fit on a couple of my pick,
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,760
29,266
Thanks for the good comments!

And, yes, I knew that as much as cool it would be to reunite the KLM and aiming for the Green Unit, missed Kasatonov by 1 pick, as much having Larionov as a 1C would be held against me. I get your point that Krutov and Makarov aren't good enought to make up for it, but I think you're are underevaluating peak Krutov and peak Makarov,

Peak Makarov has shown trough Canada Cup and Super Series that he had the talent to be the best player on the ice against the best NHLers.

Also, in his bio, there's an excellent post in his bio from TheDevilMadeMe, with stats showing that Makarov was one of the best point producer of his group age during his NHL career. So even if he was past his prime, he was still one the best amongst players past their prime.

Many night, Makarov will be one one of the top two forward on the ice. No, he's not a center, but he's a player who can compete with the best of them.

For Krutov, his NHL career is something most of us would like to forget. The guy wasn't the shadow of the man they used to call 'The Tank'. Long gone was one of the best forward of the 1987 Canada Cup. Seaking of the numerous Canada Cup, this is an other guy who well averaged over a point per match against top competition. In fact, he has He just never could adjust to life in Nort America.

Krutov is another player who has the potential to be on the best player on the ice, even if he isn't the best ranked one

For Larionov, I know he isn't a first center in an ATD, but the KLM is first line line in an ATD.

Missing out Kasatonov killed me. With him, I would have had a really better top 4 defenseman. Instead, I kept looking for that other Russian defenseman to replace him. Also, what didn't help my cause, is that I drafted Gonchar to play with Fetisov. For whatever reason, I was sure Gonchar was at least a righty, but he isn't even one... And now, I can admit that he wasn't the good fit, even if he had been a righty. In the end, I was made the proposal of playing Fetisov on the second pair with Dutton, who would make more sense as a partner on a top four for Fetisov than Gonchar. Unfortunately, Dutton isn't first pair material. Which lead me to made the better than average second pair of Suchy - Pospisil a weak first pair. However, a Fetisov on the second pair give me a luxury not a lot of team have. Also, that way, our power-play and penalty-kill will greatly benefit of a second pair playing Fetisov.

In the end, you're totally right. My team is cool. But , yeah, I may have got sacrificed a bit of value.
Again, missing out on Kasatonov killed me in many ways,




I know this isn't the ideal line-up geo-politically speaking line-up, but I had the impression a guy like the motivator who Al Arbour is and the tenacious leader Ted Kennedy is, they would be able to make that group of player work together.

I know Larionov is my main weakness, but power on power against other lines, Kruto and Makarov will fare pretty well against competiion.

For Kennedy, you're right, I might as well play him on the second power-play.

And I agree with you, I gave up value for fit on a couple of my pick,
A few years back I rebuilt the Bread Line and got dinged hard for Bun Cook on the top line. I hold bitterness in my heart for that so I don't know how much I can forgive Larionov ;).
 

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