ATD 2021 Assassination Thread

[ChiTownPhilly]

Re: The Madden thing.

There's two ways of looking at it. One - could he do it? Answer - probably. LW isn't a super complicated position to play. Some teams move Centers to Wing all the time with little to no ill effects (I couldn't even tell you who of Gourde Stamkos Cirelli and Point played C last game because Tampa puts two Cs per line and it works out just fine). Like in the real world, some Coach says "hey Madden - line up on Wing this game" do I think he would be an embarassment? Probably not. He'd probably be fine, and maybe even good.

Didn't seem like there was much "probably" about it.

There's this entry from 2018:

John Bucyk (88.7) - Jean Beliveau (105.7) - Martin St. Louis (92.4)
Rick Martin (73.1) - Gilbert Perreault (85.7) - Bernie Morris
Bun Cook (76.3) - Vyacheslav Starshinov (R) - Harry Hyland
John Madden - Bobby Holik (R; 342 g) - Frank Finnigan
Marian Gaborik (69.9)
Dick Duff (403g)​

*Madden platoon with Holik or Duff depending on matchup. Madden played LW with Holik and shut down Mario/Jagr in conf. final.

Let's reflect on that last bit- "Madden played LW with Holik and shut down Mario/Jagr in conf. final." This puts the matter well past the realm of the hypothetical. On my roster, he won't be playing with Holik. He'll be playing with Bergeron. Maybe they'll struggle to work out the chemistry-issues.

Then, there's this entry from the recently-completed OPPF 2020:

Alex Delvecchio --- Phil Esposito (A) --- Hooley Smith
Paul Thompson --- Evgeni Malkin --- Bill Cook (A)
Busher Jackson --- Eric Lindros --- Frank Foyston
John Madden --- Dale Hunter --- Jason Pominville
​

This OPPF Roster-construct got to the Final Four.
Of course, there's also the roster information found here:
NJ Devils 1999-2000 Roster
and here-
NJ Devils 2000-2001 Roster

 

[Dreakmur]

Of course, there's also the roster information found here:
NJ Devils 1999-2000 Roster
and here-
NJ Devils 2000-2001 Roster

Those are not reliable at all. Even just looking at the two you linked, I can find more than a few mistakes.

Madden took 770 face offs in 2000 and 974 face offs in 2001. Those numbers are consistent with other 3rd line centres.

He wasn’t even good on the draw at that point, so it wasn’t having a winger take face offs.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

1999-00 and 2000-01 John Madden was the 4th line center on a team that rolled 4 lines. He was also the center on the #1PK.

It was kind of a big deal when he was moved to Holik's wing in the 2001 playoffs to check Jagr - because he had played center basically since he got a regular place in the lineup.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Philadelphia Phantoms: Founder- ted2019, GM- ChiTownPhilly

Home Rink: Philadelphia Spectrum
Coach: Tommy Gorman

#10 Cy Denneny - #6 Frank Nighbor - #7 Hooley Smith
#40 Henrik Zetterberg (A) - #26 Milan Nový - #20 Vaclav Nedomanský
#11 John Madden - #37 Patrice Bergeron (A) - #32 Claude Lemieux
#22 Daniel Sedin - #33 Henrik Sedin - #27 Odie Cleghorn

#5 Denis Potvin (C) - #16 Shea Weber
#4 Alexander Ragulin - #17 Jan Suchý
#46 Mark Giordano- #2 Terry Harper

#1 Bernie Parent
#31 Vladimír Dzurilla

Extras:
#19 Vsevolod Bobrov
#12 Jack Darragh
#25 Yury Lyapkin

PK-1: Madden-Bergeron-Giordano-Weber
PK1a: Nighbor-H. Smith-Potvin-Harper
Spare PKers: Zetterberg, Suchý, Ragulin

PP1: Denneny (Net Front)- Nighbor (Facilitator/Office Manager)- H. Smith (Half-Wall)
Suchý (QB)- Potvin (Trigger)

PP2: C. Lemieux (L Net-Front to Corners)- H. Sedin (Top of Circle to Slot)- D. Sedin (R Net-Front to Top of Circle) >> Weber (L Point)- Nový (R Point)
Spare PPers: Zetterberg, Nedomanský, O. Cleghorn, Giordano

Regular Season Preliminary Time-on-Ice Chart-

Forward	ES	PP	PK	Total
Denneny	15	4		19
Nighbor	15	3	4	22
H. Smith	14	4	2	20
Zetterberg	14	1	1	16
Nový	11	2		13
Nedomanský	13	1		14
Madden	8		3	11
Bergeron	10		4	15
C. Lemieux	10	2		12
D. Sedin	9	3		12
H. Sedin	9	3		12
O. Cleghorn	9	1		10
Totals	137	24	14	175

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Zetterberg will poach occasional shifts on the Bergeron Line- and multiple Forwards are capable of taking an occasional turn at Centre.

Defenceman	ES	PP	PK	Total
Potvin	18	4	2	24
Weber	18	2	3	23
Ragulin	16		2	18
Suchý	16	4	2	22
Giordano	14		3	17
Harper	14		2	16
Totals	94	10	14	118

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Projected Goaltender Start Percentage: Parent- 70%, Dzurilla- 30%

Composition of Team by birth-decade:

1881-90=1	1891-00=3	1901-10=1
1911-20=0	1921-30=1	1931-40=1
1941-50=6	1951-60=2	1961-70=1
1971-80=3	1981-90=3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Composition of Team by Nation/Ethnicity

Anglophone Canada	10
Czechoslovakia	4
Francophone Canada	3
Sweden	3
Soviet Union	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Team philosophy: Defence never goes out of style, Transition play never goes out of style.
Squad is built with an eye to compete in any era/any evolutionary set-of-rules/any size barn.

Once again, thank you for stepping up on extremely short notice sir! It is greatly appreciated and not surprisingly you constructed a great roster even after not starting it.

Coaching:
Ah Gorman! The man I inadvertently screwed by finding what I did on one Mr. Peter Green. His record takes a hit losing the rep for the 20's dynasty but he still carved out a solid career in the 30's with Chicago and Montreal Maroons becoming the first and only coach to win consecutive Cups with different teams (34/35). Guess that dispute w/Chicago's owners was a bit of a motivating factor!

Gorman will obviously love the top line. You can put it power on power regardless of opponent. Same can be said about the 3rd unit. Not sure how much he'll like the Sedin's but they're on a 4th line and in the grand scheme of little impact. I also wonder about the Czech combo up top, but IIRC didn't they operate within a left wing lock system at least some of the time? But overall you have 2 lines that can really bring it defensively, a top shelf #1 D and playoff sage in Parent. When you have Nighbor and Bergeron a coach like Gorman will be excited.

Leadership:

Solid group. Potvin is an excellent captain and Zetterberg/Bergeron spent a long time in the NHL in leadership roles. These guys will buy into a Gorman style.

Forwards:

What a real life reunion!

Nighbor is a great C. The greatest 2 way player of all time IMO, certainly in the conversation for best/most impactful defensive F ever. I liken his offensive output to Clarke. Heavily slanted playmaker in an era where assists were absolutely under counted. That's just based on reading hundreds of game reports from this era. He still led the NHL in assists 3 times. He led the NHA featuring Lalonde and Malone in scoring, in 1916-17, coming in 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th in various other NHL seasons.

Denneny is a fantastic LW here for obvious chemistry reasons (Nighbor/Gorman) but he's also a premium goal scorer and the line needed that. Plus he'll act as a policeman for Nighbor especially. And you managed to get them Smith who has real life connections to both as well. Strong defensively he's got below average offense for a 1st liner but it's not bad enough to drag the group down and frankly this line will generate a lot of chances on counters and turnovers.

You can pit this group against anyone in the league and know they'll give the other group of forwards fits.

I want to know more about the defensive proclivities of the Czcech dynamite duo before making a firm determination about it's functionality for Gorman but I do really like the line as it stands. Zetterberg is just a 200 foot demon. He'll skate for days, check both ways hard, score and do the dirty work. Novy/Nedo should mesh well given their styles and coming up through the same national ideology even though their careers didn't overlap internationally. Nedomansky had a couple of really solid scoring seasons for awful Detroit teams in the late 70's, well into his 30's. I think this is a solid 2nd scoring line. Possibly a bit underwhelming offensively, however that perception will absolutely fluctuate with 2 non NHL Euro's.

That 3rd line is fantastic. With Bergeron and Lemieux you get some semblance of counter offensively ability. I know much has been made about the Madden move and while I definitely will dock some points for him being out there at LW on a 3rd line, I'm not going to completely erase him from the equation as he was used at LW at times by NJ to attempt to neutralize larger RW's. I think people should be allowed to position players where they choose, and it's up to the voters to determine how much value is gained/lost w/ such moves. Regardless, Bergeron and Madden provide elite defensive ability. Contrasting styles as Madden is a bull in a china shop. He'll fore check aggressively. Defend strongly. Can take a draw if Bergeron gets booted. PB is more of a finesse defender but he's certainly in the conversation for greatest defensive C, especially post expansion. Lemieux provides a clutch presence, great pest abilities, and isn't a black hole offensively as Madden happens to be at this level. You've got a lot of truculence on the wings which is a nice trait for a C like Bergeron.

4th line is one I'm not sure Gorman would "love" but from a stylistic standpoint and functionality it's perfectly fine. Obviously the Sedin's provide excellent depth offense in a limited role. We're pretty well aware of their strengths and weaknesses and you did a fantastic job putting a noted physical human to their right in Cleghorn who like Lemieux above him, isn't completely inept offensively. The Sedin's were great on the cycle and you need someone who can do the heavy lifting for them. That seems accomplished. Well done.

Power Play:

Love 4/5th's of the top group. Suchy/Potvin is a lethal combination up top. Has everything you want from 2 Dmen. Nigbor-Denneny is also a lethal combo for obvious reasons. Where I'd really make a move is getting Zetterberg up on that top unit. He was a strong PP presence, particularly play making (almost identical splits as Giroux). He'd look good in Smith's spot as a facilitator for Denneny not to mention getting the puck cleanly out to Potvin for one timers or just to cycle. I'd save Smith for PK and ES skating.

2nd group is fantastic. Weber is a luxury. Sedin's are great here. Lemieux a pain in the ass down low. Novy is a bit of a risk up top but his offensive skill is not in debate.

Defensemen:

Elite top pairing. Potvin is a high end 1 here. Just really strong across the board. Weber is a strong #2 this year, even if I'm not as high on him as some (mainly due to less than stellar playoff record). Offensively speaking this is about as good as you'll see. Elite physical duo. Need to make these 2 skate as hard as possible. You're not going to go through them often.

Can't not like the 2nd unit. Suchy is a pretty easy #3 in this draft and Ragulin a decent #4. They compliment each other well. It's not quite Laperriere-Seibert but for a draft this size it's a really nice compliment to a higher end 1st pairing.

Another nice aspect to these 4 are the additional skills they bring to both special teams units.

Gio-Harper is just a solid bottom pairing. Won't blow you away but I think they'll do an admirable dob defensively.

Penalty Kill:

Potvin is good enough to play the top unit. Rather easily IMO. A player of his caliber should be on both top units. He's not going to play 75% of the kill but you can get him 55% and swap out for Gio/Ragulin. Weber should be on the 2nd unit IMO. I don't think he plays enough on the kill to warrant top minutes in a smaller draft. Certainly less than Harper played for the Habs. He's one of those blue liners who is almost the quintessential 2nd unit PP/PK player.

I'd personally go:

Potvin-Harper (get max value out of 3rd pairing guy)

Gio/Ragulin-Weber

Can't imagine anyone having better PK forwards (haven't looked that closely yet). Madden/Bergeron and Nighbor/Smith is just ridiculous. So much defensive ability and more than enough offensive ability to possibly pot a few over the course of a playoff run.

Goalies:

I've come around in recent years on Parent, in part thanks to you sir! He's got a bit more to his resume beyond the 2 obvious dominant years. He's got a strong defensive group in front of him, a lot of very physical players. He grades out better in a playoff environment certainly. I think I'd have attempted to get a better backup, capable of handling a regular season 1B role, just to keep Parent fresh. I'll be honest, I don't know a ton about Dzurilla but just ball parking, he seems like one of the weaker back ups.

Overall goalie isn't a strength but Parent is good enough, especially with the defensive acumen in front of him.

Overall:

Really well done having come in without any notice a few rounds into the draft! It's certainly not an explosive team, below average offensively speaking but it'll be one of the better collective defensive rosters and that bodes well for Gorman as coach. A lot of puck moving ability from the top 4 so transition and breakout productivity should be strong. This is a roster that will need to frustrate teams into mistakes and then take advantage. Need strong output from the special teams as well and those units look very strong to me so I expect good things.

For the 75th time, thanks again for stepping up CTP! Fantastic effort and looking forward to the playoffs.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Everyone who posts a line-up deserves to have it reviewed... so with that in mind:

Montreal Maroons
Home: Montreal Forum; Montreal, QC
Two-Time Stanley Cup Champs (1926, 1935)

Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Jack Stewart
Alternates: Howie Morenz & Aurele Joliat

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Brett Hull
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Cowley - Bill Mosienko
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bernie Morris
Murray Murdoch - Dick Irvin - Rick Tocchet

Lionel Hitchman - Jack Stewart
Lionel Conacher - Red Horner
Jim Neilson - Red Dutton

Terry Sawchuk
Gump Worsley

Extra Skaters: Ab McDonald, Dan Bain, Sandis Ozolinsh

PP1: Krutov, Cowley, Morenz - Conacher, Hull
PP2: Joliat, Irvin, Hay - Neilson, Mosienko
PK1: Morenz-Joliat, Hitchman, Stewart
PK2: Murdoch, Fredrickson, Conacher, Dutton​

Coaching: no worse than solid coaching, probably better than that- fit to purpose, and definitely more suited to the personnel than the coach you plumped for in the previous ATD.

Leadership: I think you got more than ample leadership- it just has to be apportioned suitably. I'm not seeing any evidence that Jack Stewart ever held the 'C.' Hitchman DID serve as Captain- multiple years in the Eddie Shore era, and has served as an ATD-level Captain in past drafts. I'm definitely fine with Joliat taking one of the 'A's. For the other, I'd consider promoting your Lieutenant [Lieutenant Airman Sigurður Fredrickson] to Assistant Captain. This keeps Montreal from having two letters on the same line.

Part of me thinks that Shero would take all of 20 seconds to work this out- so (to my mind) no lasting harm done.

Line #1- what a coup to get Morenz at pick 18, and add assets for the privilege of doing so. I hope that, in retrospect, you can see why there was a delay in approving the move that permitted this to happen. Paid a little extra to get Joliat (selected before other superior LWs), but tendered the fee to get the chemistry. [Plus, you rightly recognized that Joliat would have been gone by the 'come-back.'] Then there's Brett Hull. Kind of a testament to the awesomeness of Line 1 for me to consider Brett Hull the clear lower step. He's a Power Play Howitzer, of course. Tons of value in that role. In his St Louis years, though, he just hemorrhaged even-strength goals against- and juiced up the offense on both sides of the ice. Maybe Shero's one of those guys who can bring "Playoff Brett Hull" to the Regular Season. Either that, and/or Joliat/Morenz will have to do a lot of energetic skating in both directions.

Line #2- Vladimir Krutov. The Tank. Can't walk around with that nickname without bringing toughness, right? There will be those who'll say that he'll need every bit of it, with this line. That said, I've been consistent by saying (in-the-past) that I like to arrange for a 'Dutch-Uncle' or two to help keep Krutov away from the bars & the buffet tables. I've seldom said kind words about Crowley- not because he isn't a worthy mainstream (or better) Hall-of-Famer, but because he tends to get mentioned at the Lach/Fedorov/Nels Stewart level among Centermen- and I don't think he's better than any of them. Talent-wise, he's just fine in a 2nd line role. As an assist-guy, he's absolutely elite. I just think he'll compromise Shero's follicular health by seldom coming back into the defensive-zone. Still, he's Shero, not Keenan, and should avoid an explosion. Mosienko is beyond-worthy as a #2 RW. However, there will be those who view the Cowley-Mosienko combo and apply the ultimate (and to my mind, overblown) ATD-curse, the dreaded 's'-word [s*f*]. I'm staking no ground on this matter- I'm just putting the ball on the tee, for you to drive 300 yards down the middle of the fairway (or whiff). Your move.

Line #3- I discovered the joys (and the Hockey History stories) attached to Frank Fredrickson in the OPPF draft- amazingly finding him available in Round 21 (of a twelve-player draft). George Hay also got a look from me (although I went in another direction), and Bernie Morris finishes off the Old-School Cool. I've come round to thinking Fredrickson is a fine 3 on any roster... and Shero will (also) love the way he plays.

Line #4- Got some deeper thoughts about this trio. I'll share later in the post. Murdoch looks valuable in his assignment. Tocchet always gets selected in these drafts, and he brings edge, and PiMs against.

Top 4 Defensemen: Hitchman/Stewart/L. Conacher/Horner. All these are LHSs. I rate the H-o-F Lionel higher than most. There's all kinds of toughness with these players- but there's concern with transition skating here, I think. To mitigate against this, you can count on me to know that it's not exactly like Shero had great transition-skating d-guys in his apex years with The Flyers. Lots of exits were accomplished by the Forwards. I suppose Shero will find a way to patch together passable zone-exits. The Maroons squad has four H-o-H Top 100 players on the Forward lines. All that assembled front-end talent came with a price at the back end. That fee is well-and-truly assessed.

The final pairing gives you your lone RHS-D, and another Penalty-Magnet to add to Tocchet and Horner.

Goaltending- of ALL top Goaltenders, the ones who seem to divide opinions most are Sawchuk and Tretiak. Sawchuk always struck as the 'girl-with-a-curl' among Goaltenders. [When good, transcendently great. When not-so-good... you're reaching for your back-up.] Most experienced ATDers (including me) will put this position in the "plus" column as a clear strength on your team. Quality back-up in Worsley, who had a well-earned Hall-of-Fame career in his own right, PLUS he's no stranger to the back-up role, having walked down that road during the time the young Vachon was emerging.

I'm going to wrap up this overview with one final out-of-box thought: would you be willing to go with a 7D line-up, sit Irvin, take advantage of Bernie Morris' multi-positionality to fill that gap a little, and add ice-time to Morenz and Fredrickson particularly, and bring out Ozolinsh to burnish your Power Play options a bit, plus give you ONE Defenseman who can carry some pressure into the other zone?

[I'll withhold assessment of Special Teams as we ponder this point...]

It was fun to look through this Roster- a team that doesn't look out-of-place in one of the two candidates for the strongest Division(s) we've got going this year.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Hartford Whalers

Coach: Peter Laviolette

Valeri Kharlamov - Doug Gilmour (A) - Andy Bathgate
Sweeney Schriner - Pavel Datsyuk - Dino Ciccarelli
Igor Liba (A) - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Nikita Kucherov
Craig Ramsay - Ryan Kesler - Jere Lehtinen

Dave Andreychuk, Pat Verbeek

Duncan Keith - Ray Bourque (C)
Brad McCrimmon - Eric Desjardins
Doug Mohns - Bob Baun
Al Iafrate

Jiří Holeček
Harry Lumley

PP1: Kharlamov - Gilmour - Ciccarelli - Bathgate - Bourque
PP2: Schriner - Starshinov - Kucherov - Datsyuk - Desjardins

PK1: Ramsay - Kesler - Keith - Bourque
PK2: Lehtinen - Gilmour - McCrimmon - Baun
PK3: Liba - Datsyuk - Mohns - Desjardins​

Thank you once again for being a rock during the draft sir! You're often on the wrong end of odd hours being on the other side of the glove from most of us and it's appreciated that you send lists and pick in a timely manner when around. Really like this squad. It's a wonderful mix of North American and Euro talent. One of the few top pairings that isn't terribly far behind Orr-Stevens!

Coaching:

Ah Lavi! The fire and brimstone approach! He's definitely going to be one of the weaker coaches this year but there is a very nice mix of talent to work with on the ice. I do wonder if there is enough physicality for him top to bottom, but the actual talent at F/D is quite strong.


Leadership:

Solid group. Not great, not bad.

Forwards:

Really strong group top to bottom! Winger dominant but strong 2 way C ability is a nice mortar between mostly offensive only players in the top 9 (wings).

Top line has everything you want. Kharlamov and Bathgate is a ridiculous wealth of offensive acumen, even in a 24 team draft. I'd imagine Kharlamov will have the puck on his stick the most here but should work very well with a uber physical and defensive minded C in Gilmour and play making wizard Bathgate. The latter may lose a little bit of his play making impact w/Kharlamov having the puck more than anyone else, but he's far too good a player and passer to think they won't work a lot of magic back and forth. Gilmour will have to do the heavy lifting in the corners and fore checking so I do think his defensive ability, at times, will suffer, but it's a minor nuance. Plus, you have an elite top pairing and solid 2nd and 3rd pairings so less holes in that area than many others. But overall, this is a potent group. Plenty of goal scoring, play making, one very physical/200 foot type to hold it together.

Soild 2nd line. Stylistically much like the 1st (best offensive player is a winger), though Datsyuk is a different type defensive star than Gilmour, a more finesse, smooth pick pocket. Still, it's a wealth of defensive ability and helps considerably considering the wingers in the top 6 aren't exactly known as defensive difference makers. Dino is definitely one of the weakest 2nd liners here which is why the line doesn't grade higher but he brings traits that Schriner/Datsyuk don't. I could see Kucherov getting some shifts up here if the line stagnates somewhat.

I like the 3rd line as it stands! Nice depth scoring unit with Star/Kuch. Liba bringing the glue to the line. This team, the top 9, should generate an above amount of offensive chances.

The 4th line is tremendous. 2 all time great defensive wingers. Very good defensive C in Kesler. Obviously this unit won't likely produce much offensively but it's not entirely inept (C/LW) at ES. Defense is the name of the game here and it will be very difficult to top the collective ability of this line.


Power Play:

I'd get Schriner on the top unit to be honest. Load up. It's an extremely impressive collection of talent. Bourque/Bathgate is lethal point. Add in Kharlamov, Schriner and Gilmour and you're going to scare a lot of folks.

Then Dino, Datsyuk, Kuch, Star and Desjardins is a nice collection of players for a 2nd group. Another F on the point but Datsyuk was a smart player and excellent defensively so I'm less worried about him being up there than most.


Defensemen:

Sick top pairing. I know it's the not classic D-O split as neither are overwhelmingly great in their own end but both should be considered very strong 200 foot players, slanted a bit towards the transition (skating is fantastic) and offensively aspects of the position. Either one can skate at a high level. Or carry the puck. Keith doesn't have much of a shot but with this roster it doesn't matter. I think he'll obviously be focusing more on the defensive aspects of the game being next to Bourque but it's something Keith can/has done. Scrappy duo. Bourque was generally a good postseason player despite the lack of wins in Boston and Keith is extremely good in that realm so not only is it an elite pairing this year, you know you can count on them in the crunch.

I like the 2nd pairing as well. Not a world beater, but Desjardins is a solid #3 and McC a solid #4. It's more split in terms of responsibility but even Desjardins isn't a weak player in his own end and will be the obvious puck mover here. Crim brings the physicality.

Same story on the bottom pair. Mohns is a really nice depth puck mover, capable of moving up to the LW if need be as well. Baun will be rock defensively as a #6.


Penalty Kill:

A big strength. Just loads of talent at the respective positions. 1st and 2nd units are fabulous!


Goalies:

Holecek thrives on being the guy. He'll get the chance here. Not a strength of the team to be sure, it still however isn't bad. Holecek has some players in front of him he'd be familiar with, especially stylistically speaking. Lumley is a nice backup here.


Overall:

A lot of offense in the top 9 on the wings, with a few great defensive C's. Elite top pairing. Elite checking line. I don't feel like it's a typical Lavi roster but then again, I may be off base there and it's a very good collection of F/D. I think this would be a pleasing team to watch if you want to see north south hockey, lots of chances. If the wingers in the top 9 collectively back check hard, this team has a shot to make some noise!

Thanks again for participating and good luck in the next round sir!

 

[tinyzombies]

Everyone who posts a line-up deserves to have it reviewed... so with that in mind:Coaching: no worse than solid coaching, probably better than that- fit to purpose, and definitely more suited to the personnel than the coach you plumped for in the previous ATD.

Leadership: I think you got more than ample leadership- it just has to be apportioned suitably. I'm not seeing any evidence that Jack Stewart ever held the 'C.' Hitchman DID serve as Captain- multiple years in the Eddie Shore era, and has served as an ATD-level Captain in past drafts. I'm definitely fine with Joliat taking one of the 'A's. For the other, I'd consider promoting your Lieutenant [Lieutenant Airman Sigurður Fredrickson] to Assistant Captain. This keeps Montreal from having two letters on the same line.

Part of me thinks that Shero would take all of 20 seconds to work this out- so (to my mind) no lasting harm done.

Line #1- what a coup to get Morenz at pick 18, and add assets for the privilege of doing so. I hope that, in retrospect, you can see why there was a delay in approving the move that permitted this to happen. Paid a little extra to get Joliat (selected before other superior LWs), but tendered the fee to get the chemistry. [Plus, you rightly recognized that Joliat would have been gone by the 'come-back.'] Then there's Brett Hull. Kind of a testament to the awesomeness of Line 1 for me to consider Brett Hull the clear lower step. He's a Power Play Howitzer, of course. Tons of value in that role. In his St Louis years, though, he just hemorrhaged even-strength goals against- and juiced up the offense on both sides of the ice. Maybe Shero's one of those guys who can bring "Playoff Brett Hull" to the Regular Season. Either that, and/or Joliat/Morenz will have to do a lot of energetic skating in both directions.

Line #2- Vladimir Krutov. The Tank. Can't walk around with that nickname without bringing toughness, right? There will be those who'll say that he'll need every bit of it, with this line. That said, I've been consistent by saying (in-the-past) that I like to arrange for a 'Dutch-Uncle' or two to help keep Krutov away from the bars & the buffet tables. I've seldom said kind words about Crowley- not because he isn't a worthy mainstream (or better) Hall-of-Famer, but because he tends to get mentioned at the Lach/Fedorov/Nels Stewart level among Centermen- and I don't think he's better than any of them. Talent-wise, he's just fine in a 2nd line role. As an assist-guy, he's absolutely elite. I just think he'll compromise Shero's follicular health by seldom coming back into the defensive-zone. Still, he's Shero, not Keenan, and should avoid an explosion. Mosienko is beyond-worthy as a #2 RW. However, there will be those who view the Cowley-Mosienko combo and apply the ultimate (and to my mind, overblown) ATD-curse, the dreaded 's'-word [s*f*]. I'm staking no ground on this matter- I'm just putting the ball on the tee, for you to drive 300 yards down the middle of the fairway (or whiff). Your move.

Line #3- I discovered the joys (and the Hockey History stories) attached to Frank Fredrickson in the OPPF draft- amazingly finding him available in Round 21 (of a twelve-player draft). George Hay also got a look from me (although I went in another direction), and Bernie Morris finishes off the Old-School Cool. I've come round to thinking Fredrickson is a fine 3 on any roster... and Shero will (also) love the way he plays.

Line #4- Got some deeper thoughts about this trio. I'll share later in the post. Murdoch looks valuable in his assignment. Tocchet always gets selected in these drafts, and he brings edge, and PiMs against.

Top 4 Defensemen: Hitchman/Stewart/L. Conacher/Horner. All these are LHSs. I rate the H-o-F Lionel higher than most. There's all kinds of toughness with these players- but there's concern with transition skating here, I think. To mitigate against this, you can count on me to know that it's not exactly like Shero had great transition-skating d-guys in his apex years with The Flyers. Lots of exits were accomplished by the Forwards. I suppose Shero will find a way to patch together passable zone-exits. The Maroons squad has four H-o-H Top 100 players on the Forward lines. All that assembled front-end talent came with a price at the back end. That fee is well-and-truly assessed.

The final pairing gives you your lone RHS-D, and another Penalty-Magnet to add to Tocchet and Horner.

Goaltending- of ALL top Goaltenders, the ones who seem to divide opinions most are Sawchuk and Tretiak. Sawchuk always struck as the 'girl-with-a-curl' among Goaltenders. [When good, transcendently great. When not-so-good... you're reaching for your back-up.] Most experienced ATDers (including me) will put this position in the "plus" column as a clear strength on your team. Quality back-up in Worsley, who had a well-earned Hall-of-Fame career in his own right, PLUS he's no stranger to the back-up role, having walked down that road during the time the young Vachon was emerging.

I'm going to wrap up this overview with one final out-of-box thought: would you be willing to go with a 7D line-up, sit Irvin, take advantage of Bernie Morris' multi-positionality to fill that gap a little, and add ice-time to Morenz and Fredrickson particularly, and bring out Ozolinsh to burnish your Power Play options a bit, plus give you ONE Defenseman who can carry some pressure into the other zone?

[I'll withhold assessment of Special Teams as we ponder this point...]

It was fun to look through this Roster- a team that doesn't look out-of-place in one of the two candidates for the strongest Division(s) we've got going this year.

Here's some footage of Morenz/Joliat vs Boston in 1931. Joliat actually nutmegs Shore on one play lol.

 

[nabby12]

Everyone who posts a line-up deserves to have it reviewed... so with that in mind:Coaching: no worse than solid coaching, probably better than that- fit to purpose, and definitely more suited to the personnel than the coach you plumped for in the previous ATD.

Leadership: I think you got more than ample leadership- it just has to be apportioned suitably. I'm not seeing any evidence that Jack Stewart ever held the 'C.' Hitchman DID serve as Captain- multiple years in the Eddie Shore era, and has served as an ATD-level Captain in past drafts. I'm definitely fine with Joliat taking one of the 'A's. For the other, I'd consider promoting your Lieutenant [Lieutenant Airman Sigurður Fredrickson] to Assistant Captain. This keeps Montreal from having two letters on the same line.

Part of me thinks that Shero would take all of 20 seconds to work this out- so (to my mind) no lasting harm done.

Line #1- what a coup to get Morenz at pick 18, and add assets for the privilege of doing so. I hope that, in retrospect, you can see why there was a delay in approving the move that permitted this to happen. Paid a little extra to get Joliat (selected before other superior LWs), but tendered the fee to get the chemistry. [Plus, you rightly recognized that Joliat would have been gone by the 'come-back.'] Then there's Brett Hull. Kind of a testament to the awesomeness of Line 1 for me to consider Brett Hull the clear lower step. He's a Power Play Howitzer, of course. Tons of value in that role. In his St Louis years, though, he just hemorrhaged even-strength goals against- and juiced up the offense on both sides of the ice. Maybe Shero's one of those guys who can bring "Playoff Brett Hull" to the Regular Season. Either that, and/or Joliat/Morenz will have to do a lot of energetic skating in both directions.

Line #2- Vladimir Krutov. The Tank. Can't walk around with that nickname without bringing toughness, right? There will be those who'll say that he'll need every bit of it, with this line. That said, I've been consistent by saying (in-the-past) that I like to arrange for a 'Dutch-Uncle' or two to help keep Krutov away from the bars & the buffet tables. I've seldom said kind words about Crowley- not because he isn't a worthy mainstream (or better) Hall-of-Famer, but because he tends to get mentioned at the Lach/Fedorov/Nels Stewart level among Centermen- and I don't think he's better than any of them. Talent-wise, he's just fine in a 2nd line role. As an assist-guy, he's absolutely elite. I just think he'll compromise Shero's follicular health by seldom coming back into the defensive-zone. Still, he's Shero, not Keenan, and should avoid an explosion. Mosienko is beyond-worthy as a #2 RW. However, there will be those who view the Cowley-Mosienko combo and apply the ultimate (and to my mind, overblown) ATD-curse, the dreaded 's'-word [s*f*]. I'm staking no ground on this matter- I'm just putting the ball on the tee, for you to drive 300 yards down the middle of the fairway (or whiff). Your move.

Line #3- I discovered the joys (and the Hockey History stories) attached to Frank Fredrickson in the OPPF draft- amazingly finding him available in Round 21 (of a twelve-player draft). George Hay also got a look from me (although I went in another direction), and Bernie Morris finishes off the Old-School Cool. I've come round to thinking Fredrickson is a fine 3 on any roster... and Shero will (also) love the way he plays.

Line #4- Got some deeper thoughts about this trio. I'll share later in the post. Murdoch looks valuable in his assignment. Tocchet always gets selected in these drafts, and he brings edge, and PiMs against.

Top 4 Defensemen: Hitchman/Stewart/L. Conacher/Horner. All these are LHSs. I rate the H-o-F Lionel higher than most. There's all kinds of toughness with these players- but there's concern with transition skating here, I think. To mitigate against this, you can count on me to know that it's not exactly like Shero had great transition-skating d-guys in his apex years with The Flyers. Lots of exits were accomplished by the Forwards. I suppose Shero will find a way to patch together passable zone-exits. The Maroons squad has four H-o-H Top 100 players on the Forward lines. All that assembled front-end talent came with a price at the back end. That fee is well-and-truly assessed.

The final pairing gives you your lone RHS-D, and another Penalty-Magnet to add to Tocchet and Horner.

Goaltending- of ALL top Goaltenders, the ones who seem to divide opinions most are Sawchuk and Tretiak. Sawchuk always struck as the 'girl-with-a-curl' among Goaltenders. [When good, transcendently great. When not-so-good... you're reaching for your back-up.] Most experienced ATDers (including me) will put this position in the "plus" column as a clear strength on your team. Quality back-up in Worsley, who had a well-earned Hall-of-Fame career in his own right, PLUS he's no stranger to the back-up role, having walked down that road during the time the young Vachon was emerging.

I'm going to wrap up this overview with one final out-of-box thought: would you be willing to go with a 7D line-up, sit Irvin, take advantage of Bernie Morris' multi-positionality to fill that gap a little, and add ice-time to Morenz and Fredrickson particularly, and bring out Ozolinsh to burnish your Power Play options a bit, plus give you ONE Defenseman who can carry some pressure into the other zone?

[I'll withhold assessment of Special Teams as we ponder this point...]

It was fun to look through this Roster- a team that doesn't look out-of-place in one of the two candidates for the strongest Division(s) we've got going this year.

Thanks @ChiTownPhilly for the review. I was wondering if someone was ever going to get around doing one for me...

Black Jack Stewart served as captain of the Chicago Black Hawks for multiple seasons. Learned that from writing my Mosienko book! However, I did take your advice and make the move of now having Joliat and Fredrickson as my alternates.

Sawchuk is arguably the greatest goaltender to ever strap on a pair of pads, so yeah, I would hope that's a 'plus' for my team. If you look hard enough, you can find criticism's for every player in this draft, which is always always the case here it seems.

To your final point of sitting Irvin to have 7D, I think it should be noted how common injuries are in a given season. That said, I'm not necessarily going to run 11F/7D, but there will certainly be times when Ozolinsh/Bain come into games when there are injuries/guys not playing well/etc. I'm sure Ozolinsh will play an integral role on the team and get into some playoff games at key times.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Montreal Maroons

Home: Montreal Forum; Montreal, QC
Two-Time Stanley Cup Champs (1926, 1935)

Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Jack Stewart
Alternates: Howie Morenz & Aurele Joliat

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Brett Hull
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Cowley - Bill Mosienko
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bernie Morris
Murray Murdoch - Dick Irvin - Rick Tocchet

Lionel Hitchman - Jack Stewart
Lionel Conacher - Red Horner
Jim Neilson - Red Dutton

Terry Sawchuk
Gump Worsley

Extra Skaters: Ab McDonald, Dan Bain, Sandis Ozolinsh

PP1: Krutov, Cowley, Morenz - Conacher, Hull
PP2: Joliat, Irvin, Hay - Neilson, Mosienko
PK1: Morenz-Joliat, Hitchman, Stewart
PK2: Murdoch, Fredrickson, Conacher, Dutton​

Maroons review

Coaching - I'm not as big a fan of Shero as some here, but he's still a top 10 coach in my book. He liked his teams mega-physical and generally defense-first. Great systems coach. Is this a Shero team? The blueline sure is. And I guess Brett Hull can do his Ken Hitchcock thing with Shero. Second line isn't a great fit for a Shero team though

First line - You got Morenz at good value, then Joliat at somewhat weak value, but the sum is obviously greater than their parts with this two, so I like it. Hull is a great 3rd wheel in theory, but I'm just not sure how he'll do playing their speed game. I also think Hull, perhaps more than any other player, is a guy who can use a truly elite playmaker to center him, and the well-rounded Morenz isn't exactly that. I mean, Morenz is kind of a much better version of Modano, but as good as Dallas version of Brett Hull was, that still wasn't really Hull at his absolute best.

Second line - Really good offensively, pretty weak defensively. I think Krutov is a decent two-way player, but I'd prefer more than "decent" next to Cowley. I totally understand why you want to draft a player you are currently researching thoroughly, but in a 24 team draft, Mosienko seems like a weak spot.

Third line - Really well-rounded line that has a little of everything. They are ok defensively, but not great, I guess the first line will take the toughest defensive assignments?

Fourth line - Dick Irvin was a great scorer, but I really think you could have gone with a more defensive-oriented guy, given who your top 3 centers are. Good wingers for a 4th line.

1st pairing - Fabulous defensively, but could struggle to get the puck out of the zone. Jack Stewart carrying the puck moving for a pairing is not really a great thing.

2nd pairing - Lionel Conacher would be a great #3, but he's kind of your #2. Good well-rounded guy (A Conacher - Stewart pairing would be very nice, but I totally get why you want him to anchor your second pairing. I'm not a huge fan of Red Horner - his all-star record is just so weak - I could be wrong, but I actually consider him your 6th best defenseman.

3rd pairing - one of the better 3rd pairings in the draft - I really like Dutton's awards record - IMO, he's better than Horner.

Goaltending - Obviously one of the top duos in the draft.

PP1: The forwards are great, the "defensemen" less so. I struggle to picture Brett Hull playing the point on the PP.

PP2: Again, given your defensively oriented blueline, I get the need to have a forward play the point, but what makes Mosienko suitable there? As far as I know, the Bentleys both played the point, not Mosienko.

PK: Great defensemen, forwards are decent.

Overall: A team that definitely embraces the concept of "forwards score, defensemen defend." Great goaltending. The forwards work for the most part, though I wish you had more defense at C, so the Morenz and Fredrickson lines could be freed up a little. Lack of puck movement from the blueline is the biggest issue at even strength, while the lack of offense from the blueline does hurt the PP.

 

[nabby12]

Maroons review

Coaching - I'm not as big a fan of Shero as some here, but he's still a top 10 coach in my book. He liked his teams mega-physical and generally defense-first. Great systems coach. Is this a Shero team? The blueline sure is. And I guess Brett Hull can do his Ken Hitchcock thing with Shero. Second line isn't a great fit for a Shero team though

First line - You got Morenz at good value, then Joliat at somewhat weak value, but the sum is obviously greater than their parts with this two, so I like it. Hull is a great 3rd wheel in theory, but I'm just not sure how he'll do playing their speed game. I also think Hull, perhaps more than any other player, is a guy who can use a truly elite playmaker to center him, and the well-rounded Morenz isn't exactly that. I mean, Morenz is kind of a much better version of Modano, but as good as Dallas version of Brett Hull was, that still wasn't really Hull at his absolute best.

Second line - Really good offensively, pretty weak defensively. I think Krutov is a decent two-way player, but I'd prefer more than "decent" next to Cowley. I totally understand why you want to draft a player you are currently researching thoroughly, but in a 24 team draft, Mosienko seems like a weak spot.

Third line - Really well-rounded line that has a little of everything. They are ok defensively, but not great, I guess the first line will take the toughest defensive assignments?

Fourth line - Dick Irvin was a great scorer, but I really think you could have gone with a more defensive-oriented guy, given who your top 3 centers are. Good wingers for a 4th line.

1st pairing - Fabulous defensively, but could struggle to get the puck out of the zone. Jack Stewart carrying the puck moving for a pairing is not really a great thing.

2nd pairing - Lionel Conacher would be a great #3, but he's kind of your #2. Good well-rounded guy (A Conacher - Stewart pairing would be very nice, but I totally get why you want him to anchor your second pairing. I'm not a huge fan of Red Horner - his all-star record is just so weak - I could be wrong, but I actually consider him your 6th best defenseman.

3rd pairing - one of the better 3rd pairings in the draft - I really like Dutton's awards record - IMO, he's better than Horner.

Goaltending - Obviously one of the top duos in the draft.

PP1: The forwards are great, the "defensemen" less so. I struggle to picture Brett Hull playing the point on the PP.

PP2: Again, given your defensively oriented blueline, I get the need to have a forward play the point, but what makes Mosienko suitable there? As far as I know, the Bentleys both played the point, not Mosienko.

PK: Great defensemen, forwards are decent.

Overall: A team that definitely embraces the concept of "forwards score, defensemen defend." Great goaltending. The forwards work for the most part, though I wish you had more defense at C, so the Morenz and Fredrickson lines could be freed up a little. Lack of puck movement from the blueline is the biggest issue at even strength, while the lack of offense from the blueline does hurt the PP.

Thank you @TheDevilMadeMe ! I appreciate your review.

I'm not sure if I agree with all of the criticism's thrown out. But I know that my team as well as everyone else's here is far from perfect!

 

[MadArcand]

Ah Lavi! The fire and brimstone approach! He's definitely going to be one of the weaker coaches this year but there is a very nice mix of talent to work with on the ice. I do wonder if there is enough physicality for him top to bottom, but the actual talent at F/D is quite strong.
...
A lot of offense in the top 9 on the wings, with a few great defensive C's. Elite top pairing. Elite checking line. I don't feel like it's a typical Lavi roster but then again, I may be off base there and it's a very good collection of F/D. I think this would be a pleasing team to watch if you want to see north south hockey, lots of chances. If the wingers in the top 9 collectively back check hard, this team has a shot to make some noise!

Thanks again for participating and good luck in the next round sir!

Thanks for the review!

Only things I feel I should contest are bolded - actually in many ways this team can play like Lavi's best team (2006 Canes) - turbo offensive top-9 with turbo-defensive 4th line, defensive responsibility down the middle, powerful special teams, good skating all around, sneaky goaltending.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

MONTREAL CANADIENS​

​

GM: BenchBrawl​

Coach: Barry Trotz
Captain: Milt Schmidt
Assistant: Art Coulter
Assistant: Sprague Cleghorn
Assistant: Babe Siebert


HEAD COACH​

Barry Trotz​

ROSTER

Bobby Hull - Milt Schmidt (C) - Blake Wheeler
Woody Dumart - Norm Ullman - Patrick Kane*
Claude Giroux - Jeremy Roenick - Dave Taylor
Bob Davidson - Ken Mosdell - Jerry Toppazzini

Sprague Cleghorn (A) - Art Coulter (A)
Babe Siebert (A) - Harry Cameron
Bobby Rowe - Viktor Kuzkin

Georges Hainsworth
Miikka Kiprusoff

Spares: Vincent Lecavalier, Mark Stone, Bob Armstrong

*Patrick Kane currently a Top 2 Hart candidate for the 2020-2021 season near the half-way mark

PP

Giroux-Schmidt-Kane
Cameron-Hull

Ullman-Roenick-Wheeler
Siebert-Cleghorn

PK

Mosdell-Toppazzini
Siebert-Coulter

Dumart-Schmidt
Rowe-Cleghorn

PK extras: Hull, Davidson, Roenick

​

Forward
	ES	PP	PK	TOT
Hull	15	5	1	21
Schmidt	14	4	2	20
Ullman	15	3	0	18
Kane	14	4	0	18
Dumart	14	0	2	16
Wheeler	12	3	0	15
Roenick	12	3	0	15
Giroux	10	4	0	14
Taylor	12	0	0	12
Mosdell	9	0	4	13
Toppazzini	9	0	4	13
Davidson	9	0	1	10
	145	26	14	185
Defense
	ES	PP	PK	TOT
Cleghorn	20	2	3	25
Coulter	18	0	4	22
Siebert	17	2	4	23
Cameron	17	5	0	22
Rowe	10	0	2	12
Kuzkin	10	0	1	11
	92	9	14	115

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Montreal Canadiens review

Coaching and leadership - I've come around on Trotz. I'm still not sure where I'd "rank" him, but my instinct is that he's pretty average in a 24 team draft, and a great fit for your team. You don't have anyone who screams "All-Time great captain" on your team, but you have tons of secondary leadership, so I think you're fine there.

First line - Now do you see what I mean when I say Bobby Hull is so tough to build around? While Hull was a very physical player who developed a decent two-way game as he aged, with the puck, I really do see him like a souped-up version of Kovalchuk. Given him linemates who play defense, clear space, and get him the puck, and just let him go! Milt Schmidt is as ideal a Hull center as you can get, as Schmidt played so many years with Bauer as the primary puck carrier on his line. Wheeler is ok - big bodied playmaker. My brain says Wheeler's skillset works very well on the line, and I'm aware that his offensive stats make him look like an adequate 3rd wheel... but just something about him on a top line doesn't look right aesthetically - it's hard to say.

Second line - I really like it. The Ullman-Kane do is definitely one of the best 2nd line duos in the draft. Dumart is far from a star, but he was near the top of my list for 2nd line "glue guys."

Third line - Solid but unspectacular. In a 24 team draft, Roenick is nothing special as a 3rd liner. Giroux is great on the LW, but are Roenick and Taylor well suited to take full advantage of his playmaking?

Fourth line - Great defensive line. Davidson is basically an offensive black whole, and I don't see any playmaking, so they aren't going to score much in the counterattack. Mosdell really reads like a player who needs help from a linemate to be more than just a defensive guy.

1st pairing - Well balanced 1st unit, seems pretty average overall - maybe slightly below due to Coulter's lack of puck moving, strong defensively, really well suited to defend against larger forwards.

2nd pairing - Not surprising that I love them, considering I've put them together myself. One of the top 2nd pairings in the draft. I can see Trotz using them in more offensive situations, with the 1st pairing used in more defensive ones.

Overall, a really strong top 4. You have an average #1, and 3 players who are probably best suited as highend #3s, but not totally lost as lowend #2s.

Bottom pairing - Nothing to write home about, but they are solid. I really wanted Kuzkin as my #6... I guess if there's any issue with them, its lack of size.

Goaltending - you waited forever, so it's no surprise you have one of the weaker starters in a 24 team draft. Hainsworth probably has more "ATD value" than "listmaking value" though, as he doesn't really have a weakness in his resume to pick at.

Power play 1 - Those pointmen are deadly! Giroux and Kane seem a little bit too pass-first for my liking - if one of them was more of a sniper, this would be a truly excellent unit.

Power play 2 - Seems pretty average to me

Penalty kill - Again, seems pretty average to me - no holes, but nobody really wows me.

Overall - Lots to like about this team. You were kind of screwed last minute losing out Rick Middleton, so a lot rides on how the ATD community evaluates Blake Wheeler. I remember thinking that you had no better option when you drafted him, though. Your blueline is really good and well-balanced - I don't think Coulter is a good #2, when you have 3 fringe #2/#3s, it kind of makes up for it. Obviously goaltending is not a strength, but you know that. I do think team defense from your top 9 forwards is a bit light - the Ullman line is probably your best defensive option there, but it does have Kane on it. This is only an issue because your shutdown line is so bad offensively, I wouldn't want to give them a lot of minutes.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Thanks!

Here's my lineup for assassination.

COACH -Vladimir Kostka
CAPTAIN - Nicklas Lidstrom
ASSISTANT CAPTAINS - Leo Boivin, Guy Carbonneau

Frank Mahovlich-Jean Ratelle-Sergei Makarov
Markus Naslund-Peter Forsberg-Mike Gartner
Sid Smith-Joe Thornton-Ken Hodge
Harry Watson-Guy Carbonneau-Frank Finnegan
Kris Draper
Frank McGee

Nicklas Lidstrom - Erik Karlsson
Leo Boivin - Tom Johnson
Moose Vasko - Vladimir Konstantinov
Randy Carlyle

Grant Fuhr
Chuck Rayner

PP1 (Box-Plus-1):
Mahovlich (67%/1.04) - Makarov (47%/1.11-NHL)
Ratelle (53%/1.18)
Lidstrom (73%/1.23) -Forsberg (72%/1.14)

PP2:
Hodge (46%/1.42)-Gartner (52%/1.00)-Thornton (67%/1.08)-Naslund (50%/1.00)-Karlsson (75%/.94)
PK1: (swap w/Draper when he's in the lineup; or if there's a situational f/o) Carbonneau (53%/.91)-Finnigan (Best penalty killer 1930's - Ultimate Hockey) -Lidstrom (52%/.81)-Konstantinov (42%/.76)
PK2: Draper (33%/.82)-Mahovlich (13%/.83)/Forsberg (21%/.88)-Vasko (53%/1.00)-Johnson (77%/.91)


ES VsX7 (with Rank preceding it):
Ratelle 19/65
Mahovlich 26/64

Forsberg 42/59
Naslund 96/52
Gartner 120/51

Thornton 10/68
Hodge 46/58

Karlsson 253/43​

Tinyzombie's review

Coaching - I have no idea what to make of Kostka. He just kind of showed up out of nowhere in a previous ATD and has stuck around this position. Is he the best Czechoslovak coach of all-time? I honestly have no idea. What I do know is that his teams usually used the left-wing lock. That could be a problem, because your left wings are a group are definitely NOT well suited to play as 3rd defensemen when the other team has the puck. On the other hand, MAYBE he could modify it into a Bowman-style modified LW lock and use your centers as the "3rd defenseman?" I'm not entirely sure how that would play out.

1st line - Stellar offensively in all areas, and Ratelle and Makarov bring at least acceptable defensive games. This line could get pushed around in the corners though. Mahovlich was a big-body, but I don't think he really used it all that much. The knock on Ratelle is that he was horrendous in the playoffs in New York, but good in Boston, where they had more players who could protect him.

2nd line - Forsberg is obviously slumming it on a 2nd line. His wingers look a little subpar to me in a 24 team draft. I also don't like the idea of using an injury-prone guy like Forsberg as a line's only physical presence.

3rd line - another offensively-oriented 3rd line, and a good one.

But my question for you is the same for a lot of teams - no team is going to control play at all times, so you are going to spend a fair among of time in defensive situations. Which of your top 3 lines do you see Kostka using in key defensive situations?

4th line - Carbs and Finnegan are 2/3 of a great checking line. Watson was megatough and a good defensive player, but was he a great one? Like the Canadiens, I don't see this line scoring much due to lack of playmaking.

First pairing - I like it a lot. Really well balanced

2nd pairing - Tom Johnson is outstanding as a #3; Boivin is probably best served as bottom pairing guy.

3rd pairing - I guess you realized you screwed up by drafting Konstantinov so high. Either that, or you are using him on the bottom pairing to humor those of us who think so. This is actually a really good bottom pairing. I would even consider moving Vasko to the 2nd pairing - I don't think he's a particularly great #4, but IMO, he's better than Boivin.

Goaltending - Fuhr has a niche in the ATD. In a 24 team draft, he's lower tier with guys like Hainsworth, but Fuhr's niche is that he's proven to be well-suited for a run-and-gun type team. Is your team that type of team?

Power play - Seems a waste to draft Karlsson and not use him on PP1. That said, I get why you're doing it - your bottom 4 defensemen are very defensively oriented. Are you thinking of using Forsberg and Naslund up high? I don't think that's a role either of that either of them played. Is this an umbrella PP?

Penalty kill - Really good 1st unit. Would be even better with Johnson next to Lidstrom (Tom Johnson was the 50s Canadiens' dynasty's go-to PKer at least as much as Harvey).

You could plug any of your dmen other than Karlsson into the 2nd unit and have it be strong. The forwards on the 2nd unit are confusing - I would use some combo of Ratelle, Makarov, and Thornton there.

Overall - I think you recovered your blueline quite well from the Konstantinov pick - your top 3 is actually very good and very well-rounded. I do wish you had a bit more offense from the blueline beyond Lidstrom/Karlsson for the PP, though. IF Kostka runs some kind of modified LW-lock, where the center takes the traditional defensive role, your forwards could do quite well for themselves, provided your top 6 doesn't get stuck in a physical game. Though I do wish you had a little more defense up front beyond Carbonneau and Finnigan, who you probably don't want to give big minutes to.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Coach: Anatoli Tarasov

Busher Jackson --- Cyclone Taylor --- Daniel Alfredsson
Tommy Smith --- Newsy Lalonde (A) --- Mickey MacKay
Gordon Roberts --- Pit Lepine --- Eddie Oatman
Dean Prentice --- David Backes --- Jack Walker

Ebbie Goodfellow (A) --- Dit Clapper (C)
Ken Reardon --- Jack Crawford
Frank Patrick --- Lennart Svedberg

Patrick Roy
Hugh Lehman​

Spares: Bruce MacGregor (RW/C), Glen Harmon (D), Patrick Sharp (F)

PP1: Jackson - Lalonde - Smith - Taylor - Goodfellow
PP2: Clapper - MacKay - Roberts - Patrick - Alfredsson

PK1: Lepine - Walker - Reardon - Clapper
PK2: MacKay - Prentice - Goodfellow - Crawford

A unique coach/roster combination! I think it pretty cool you have the greatest Soviet coach/builder, a huge presence in the development of the USSR, coaching a team made up of mostly pre consolidation and WWII players from North America.

Thanks for your great work on the PCHA as well RB! Really cool to see those very in depth breakdowns and I for one really appreciate the effort!

Coaching:

Tarasov is a good coach here. He shares a lot of similarities with Pete Green in that even beyond coaching win/losses there was a lot involved in the tactical side of the game and developing players even on an individual basis.

He's got a strong top 6 offensively. Has a couple of multi positional players on the back end.

It's always more difficult to assess chemistry between Tarasov and North American's but he's a good coach here and I think he has a lot of pieces he could work with given his preferences over the years.

Leadership:

Really solid group. Clapper wore the C for a long time, winning multiple titles in that role. He's probably underrated in this department. Lalonde and Goodfellow are strong alternates. It's a nice mix of leadership styles.


Forwards:


Lethal top 6.

Taylor being the centerpiece provides elite offensive ability down the middle. His skating will push teams back on their heels and Busher Jackson provides a great goal scorer who should benefit by the best playmaker of the pre consolidation era IMO. Alfredsson is a good glue guy here. Not elite offense but compared to a lot of other 3rd wheel types on a top line, he's better than many I've seen. Plus he brings good fore checking and some added defensive chops, which is nice as Jackson won't bring a ton there.

Not an extremely physical group by any means, nor soft. Probably pretty average in terms of physicality but overall this is a line that should produce consistent scoring chances as one of the better collective offensive lines.

Very strong 2nd line. Obviously Lalonde is a nice luxury C here! He's physical, has about as much offense as Taylor and in Malkin-esque role should shrive on improved match ups. Smith is a pure offensive winger here. Great peak, little longevity in the top leagues though (east or west). MacKay is a very nice addition as he'll serve as the defensive conscious more than anything, though he also possess really nice 2nd line scoring abilities.

Bottom 6 is a classic hodgepodge of depth scoring/checkers (Roberts, Oatman, Prentice) and strong defensive players (Lepine, Walker, Backes). Nothing special on the whole but collectively just a solid collection of players who should play very well in the roles you have them in.


Power Play:

Very strong top unit. Able to use Taylor up top w/Goodfellow is a wonderful blue line. Lalonde headlines the forwards and along with Jackson/Smith should provide plenty of fireworks all around. Just a really nice mix of playmaking, goal scoring, and all around top shelf offensive abilities.

2nd group looks decent. Alf is a nice F option usable on the point. Patrick is ok there. It's a nice mix of F's there. Shouldn't have any problems getting in on puck retrievals with Roberts/Clapper.


Defensemen:

Clapper probably grades out just below a #1 level Dman in a 24 team draft but he's right there. Some may have him as the last #1 type or just outside that mark. I've always been a big fan of Clapper even dating back to my primitive years here. This guy was a 2 time AS at RW and then a Norris caliber defender for a handful of years in the late 30's/early 40's. Great leader. Strong 2 way player who still managed solid offensive scoring totals despite swapping back to D at 30 years of age. He's a nice anchor because he's not average/below average in either direction.

Goodfellow is very much like Clapper. Multi positional star who brings good offense from the back end while being a solid defender in his own. I think he's a low end #2 here but combined this is a decent 1st pairing. I think some teams may be able to push them pretty hard in their own end at times but it's not a duo that should be considered weak or inept defensively. They'll have no trouble moving the puck from either side and it's a big combo, solid physically speaking though not great.

Reardon is a rock solid #3 here. Crazy physical, he'll be in the box more than some for sure but brings a wealth of truculence/heavy checking and can move the puck at an acceptable rate with play in his own end the calling card. Crawford is another AS player. Right handed shot, though not much in the way of offensive value. This group overall is much more slanted defensively which is a nice contrast to the top unit. They should do a good job defending and making people's lives difficult in the pain department!

Patrick-Svedberg seems like it's just ok. I'd probably consider these two fairly weak in their own end so you'll want to try and avoid having them out against the premium scoring lines as often as possible but moving forward, getting the puck out of danger and generating offense from the blue line won't be a problem here.

Obviously going as F heavy as you did, the blue line was going to suffer some, but again, you managed to put together a competent top pairing and soilid 2nd group with guys that grade out as a low 1, low 2, average 3, and strong 4. Not a bad effort at all!

Penalty Kill:

Lepine-Walker is a tremendous top F duo. Reardon-Clapper is probably below average as far as defenders go.

MacKay is great on the 2nd unit. How much PK did Prentice play? I don't recall him being heavily used but I may be hazy in that area of his career. I know Alfredsson played a good bit there and posted impressive scoring totals on the kill. I may consider him up on the 2nd unit with MacKay. Goodfellow is decent and Crawford strong there.

Goalies:

It's Patrick Roy. Do we need to say anything else haha? And you got him an excellent backup in Lehman! I'm guessing the best in the league actually! Probably didn't need that good a back up but he'll absolutely help keep Roy fresh in the regular season as Pat wasn't the workhorse a Brodeur or Hall were for example. Best goalies pair in the league to be sure!


Overall:

Great team sir. You have the best G in the league, a playoff legend. Really strong scoring F's should keep up the pressure on opposing squads. Solid enough D corps especially for a team that went F heavy early. If they can hold up or Roy stands on his head, this team should do well.

Thanks again bud, and good luck moving forward!

 

[tinyzombies]

Tinyzombie's review

Coaching - I have no idea what to make of Kostka. He just kind of showed up out of nowhere in a previous ATD and has stuck around this position. Is he the best Czechoslovak coach of all-time? I honestly have no idea. What I do know is that his teams usually used the left-wing lock. That could be a problem, because your left wings are a group are definitely NOT well suited to play as 3rd defensemen when the other team has the puck. On the other hand, MAYBE he could modify it into a Bowman-style modified LW lock and use your centers as the "3rd defenseman?" I'm not entirely sure how that would play out.

1st line - Stellar offensively in all areas, and Ratelle and Makarov bring at least acceptable defensive games. This line could get pushed around in the corners though. Mahovlich was a big-body, but I don't think he really used it all that much. The knock on Ratelle is that he was horrendous in the playoffs in New York, but good in Boston, where they had more players who could protect him.

2nd line - Forsberg is obviously slumming it on a 2nd line. His wingers look a little subpar to me in a 24 team draft. I also don't like the idea of using an injury-prone guy like Forsberg as a line's only physical presence.

3rd line - another offensively-oriented 3rd line, and a good one.

But my question for you is the same for a lot of teams - no team is going to control play at all times, so you are going to spend a fair among of time in defensive situations. Which of your top 3 lines do you see Kostka using in key defensive situations?

4th line - Carbs and Finnegan are 2/3 of a great checking line. Watson was megatough and a good defensive player, but was he a great one? Like the Canadiens, I don't see this line scoring much due to lack of playmaking.

First pairing - I like it a lot. Really well balanced

2nd pairing - Tom Johnson is outstanding as a #3; Boivin is probably best served as bottom pairing guy.

3rd pairing - I guess you realized you screwed up by drafting Konstantinov so high. Either that, or you are using him on the bottom pairing to humor those of us who think so. This is actually a really good bottom pairing. I would even consider moving Vasko to the 2nd pairing - I don't think he's a particularly great #4, but IMO, he's better than Boivin.

Goaltending - Fuhr has a niche in the ATD. In a 24 team draft, he's lower tier with guys like Hainsworth, but Fuhr's niche is that he's proven to be well-suited for a run-and-gun type team. Is your team that type of team?

Power play - Seems a waste to draft Karlsson and not use him on PP1. That said, I get why you're doing it - your bottom 4 defensemen are very defensively oriented. Are you thinking of using Forsberg and Naslund up high? I don't think that's a role either of that either of them played. Is this an umbrella PP?

Penalty kill - Really good 1st unit. Would be even better with Johnson next to Lidstrom (Tom Johnson was the 50s Canadiens' dynasty's go-to PKer at least as much as Harvey).

You could plug any of your dmen other than Karlsson into the 2nd unit and have it be strong. The forwards on the 2nd unit are confusing - I would use some combo of Ratelle, Makarov, and Thornton there.

Overall - I think you recovered your blueline quite well from the Konstantinov pick - your top 3 is actually very good and very well-rounded. I do wish you had a bit more offense from the blueline beyond Lidstrom/Karlsson for the PP, though. IF Kostka runs some kind of modified LW-lock, where the center takes the traditional defensive role, your forwards could do quite well for themselves, provided your top 6 doesn't get stuck in a physical game. Though I do wish you had a little more defense up front beyond Carbonneau and Finnigan, who you probably don't want to give big minutes to.

Great analysis. I will try to move some thing around, but ya it's screwed up lol.

I could move Johnson with Lidstrom and go with Vasko-Karlsson to spread out the offense and bring more balance.

I read a newspaper article about Kostka and how he was a creative offensive mind and not just a left wing lock fella, but he mostly was kicked upstairs and didn't coach all that much. When he did he had great results tho.

Ratelle was overused in the regular season by the Rangers, that's why he was worn out by playoffs. He proved it in Boston. Maybe if I swap Forsberg and Ratelle it gives that line a bit more oomph. I'll then give him Hodge to help on the wall.

Since Watson is wasted on the fourth line, I'll move him up with Thornton- two beasts.

I think Kostka could work wonders with Mahovlich. He's an intelligent guy and not a moron like Imlach, so Frank might be more inclined to put in some effort. Also, wouldn't he be well suited for the left wing lock since he is well-rounded having played in T.O.? Also, he apparently was very strong defensively in Montreal.

Carbonneau was pretty slick with the puck for a checking center and Finnigan has some very good assist results: Top-10 Playoff Assist (3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th).

Mahovlich - Forsberg - Makarov
Naslund - Ratelle - Hodge
Watson - Thornton - Gartner
Smith - Carbonneau - Finnigan

Lidstrom - Johnson
Vasko - Karlsson
Boivin - Konstantinov

And I'll do as you say on special teams as well.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Montreal Canadiens review

Thanks for the review

Coaching and leadership - I've come around on Trotz. I'm still not sure where I'd "rank" him, but my instinct is that he's pretty average in a 24 team draft, and a great fit for your team. You don't have anyone who screams "All-Time great captain" on your team, but you have tons of secondary leadership, so I think you're fine there.

I think Milt Schmidt is a great all-time leader. He didn't get the "C" until late in his career, when Boston didn't have the guns to win it all, but he was considered a great leader in Boston from a young age. Then of course, he immediately became coach, then GM, then legendary ambassador and so on. Schmidt was a no-none-sense kind of guy, who always gave his all and led by example. Reading on his career, he's pretty much the closest thing to Béliveau in terms of his overall body of work for his franchise, including post-retirement.

I didn't have time to finish everything in the Schmidt bio (still working on it), hopefully I get to it.

First line - Now do you see what I mean when I say Bobby Hull is so tough to build around? While Hull was a very physical player who developed a decent two-way game as he aged, with the puck, I really do see him like a souped-up version of Kovalchuk. Given him linemates who play defense, clear space, and get him the puck, and just let him go! Milt Schmidt is as ideal a Hull center as you can get, as Schmidt played so many years with Bauer as the primary puck carrier on his line. Wheeler is ok - big bodied playmaker. My brain says Wheeler's skillset works very well on the line, and I'm aware that his offensive stats make him look like an adequate 3rd wheel... but just something about him on a top line doesn't look right aesthetically - it's hard to say.

Bobby Hull is not Ilya Kovalchuk. This is reducing him to something he was not. Did he have some similarities with Kovalchuk? Yes. But he was a much better playmaker, more physical, more talented overall, and more intelligent. Plus he was facing much stronger competition and still looked like a man among boys.

Bauer was the playmaker of the Kraut Line but this is a bit of a caricature, Schmidt too could play with the puck. I think Schmidt is underrated, because his post-WWII years look on and off mostly because of injuries or playing defense for a part of one season.

For example, in 1947-1948, which is the only year I managed to investigate game by game, Schmidt played the first 17 games, then missed 4 games, then returned for 7 games but he was basically playing on one knee, got reinjured, missed 22 games, then returned to play the last 10 games of the season.

Visually:
Played 17 games healthy
Missed 4 games
Injured played 7 games
Missed 22 games
Played 10 games healthy

Well, the impact his presence had on the team when healthy was significant. Leaving out the 7 games he played when clearly injured and playing because the team was in a slump, he played 27 games when healthy, and missed 26 games.

Here's the Win/Loss ratios (and GF/GP and GA/GP) for the NHL in 1948, plus the With or Without Boston teams:

	GP	W/L	GF/GP	GA/GP
Toronto Maple Leafs	60	2.133	3.03	2.38
Detroit Red Wings	60	1.667	3.12	2.46
BOS with HEALTHY Schmidt	27	1.625	3.07	2.3
Boston Bruins	60	0.958	2.78	2.8
BOS Without Schmidt	26	0.818	2.69	3.16
New York Rangers	60	0.808	2.93	3.35
Montreal Canadiens	60	0.69	2.45	2.82
Chicago Black Hawks	60	0.588	3.25	3.76

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Clearly, Schmidt had a huge impact at the beginning of the season, and then when he returned healthy for the last 10 games. It's not a statistical coincidence neither, the causality was mentioned all over the newspapers after his return.

Note that 1947-1948 is one of his supposed "off-years" after the war.

It goes:

1946: Returns to NHL. Average season but makes the SC Finals.
1947: 2nd in Hart
1948: The year I just covered
1949: Missed 16 games + played defense for 15-ish games.
1950: 5th in Hart
1951: 1st in Hart
1952: 4th in Hart

So was Schmidt really on and off? To some extent yes, but not to the extent it looks on his hockeyreference page.

Wheeler: Ultimately he looks bad on a 1st line, but he is there to balance the lines. I don't think he has any warts that would make him sabotage the Hull-Schmidt duo's efficiency.

Second line - I really like it. The Ullman-Kane do is definitely one of the best 2nd line duos in the draft. Dumart is far from a star, but he was near the top of my list for 2nd line "glue guys."

Third line - Solid but unspectacular. In a 24 team draft, Roenick is nothing special as a 3rd liner. Giroux is great on the LW, but are Roenick and Taylor well suited to take full advantage of his playmaking?

True, Roenick is nothing special, but he gives me three centers who can face big, physical centers, and three centers who can pressure the defensemen with a physical game. His value to Montreal is also thematic.

Fourth line - Great defensive line. Davidson is basically an offensive black whole, and I don't see any playmaking, so they aren't going to score much in the counterattack. Mosdell really reads like a player who needs help from a linemate to be more than just a defensive guy.

I can also double-shift Hull to play with them, or Dumart. Davidson I picked mostly for his physicality.

1st pairing - Well balanced 1st unit, seems pretty average overall - maybe slightly below due to Coulter's lack of puck moving, strong defensively, really well suited to defend against larger forwards.

2nd pairing - Not surprising that I love them, considering I've put them together myself. One of the top 2nd pairings in the draft. I can see Trotz using them in more offensive situations, with the 1st pairing used in more defensive ones.

Overall, a really strong top 4. You have an average #1, and 3 players who are probably best suited as highend #3s, but not totally lost as lowend #2s.

I think you're underrating Sprague Cleghorn a little bit, but I'm not gonna go to war for it. The impressive thing about Cleghorn is that he was de facto a top offensive, defensive and physical D. I haven't had time to reconstruct @overpass' study on how Cleghorn impacted his teams defensively, but I remember it was heavily in his favor. As for offensively and physically, it's clear he was near the top of his era.

That said your overall assessment is reasonable. Just wanted to note something about Coulter: I got a PM from @overpass today leading me to this thread: All-star team selected by NHL coaches (1927 to 1941)

Seems coaches voted Coulter a 1st AST in 1935, 1939 and 1940, whereas the official ASTs had him on the 2nd team. Three times is a lot and beyond a coincidence. Coaches preferred Coulter than writers, and saw more in him. Where would Coulter rank if those were his official ASTs?

Also, not sure Coulter was a weak puck-carrier. Not saying he was Harry Cameron or Sprague Cleghorn, but he was an intelligent player. Also @ImporterExporter had found this:

"...both excel as puck-carriers." (speaking of Seibert and Coulter after their trade)

Bottom pairing - Nothing to write home about, but they are solid. I really wanted Kuzkin as my #6... I guess if there's any issue with them, its lack of size.

If that's an issue (which I don't think it is, considering Bobby Rowe, while lacking in size, was a great pugilist and tough customer), I have Bob Armstrong as a spare, which solves the problem completely without sacrificing too much, especially given my Top 4 eats up a lot of TOI.

Goaltending - you waited forever, so it's no surprise you have one of the weaker starters in a 24 team draft. Hainsworth probably has more "ATD value" than "listmaking value" though, as he doesn't really have a weakness in his resume to pick at.

Power play 1 - Those pointmen are deadly! Giroux and Kane seem a little bit too pass-first for my liking - if one of them was more of a sniper, this would be a truly excellent unit.

Wow really?! That sounds insane, considering how dangerous Kane is with his wrist shot even from a long distance.

Power play 2 - Seems pretty average to me

Cleghorn is an amazing 2nd unit pointman though. But yeah, the unit as a whole is just OK.

Penalty kill - Again, seems pretty average to me - no holes, but nobody really wows me.

Not even Coulter? Has to be one of the top PK D ever.

Overall - Lots to like about this team. You were kind of screwed last minute losing out Rick Middleton, so a lot rides on how the ATD community evaluates Blake Wheeler. I remember thinking that you had no better option when you drafted him, though. Your blueline is really good and well-balanced - I don't think Coulter is a good #2, when you have 3 fringe #2/#3s, it kind of makes up for it. Obviously goaltending is not a strength, but you know that. I do think team defense from your top 9 forwards is a bit light - the Ullman line is probably your best defensive option there, but it does have Kane on it. This is only an issue because your shutdown line is so bad offensively, I wouldn't want to give them a lot of minutes.

Not every team needs to have a pure shut down line. Trotz can create one if need be though. Dumart-Schmidt-Kane can act as one, then I put Hull-Ullman-Wheeler, which is not great defensively but not catastrophic neither for an offensive line.

What my Top 9 isn't lacking is physicality, which is more the essence of my forward group and what Trotz likes. Every line is physical and competent defensively.

Anyway, thanks again for the review, I appreciate it. Your team will be next in line, not sure when, probably this week-end.

 

[nabby12]

Thanks for the review



I think Milt Schmidt is a great all-time leader. He didn't get the "C" until late in his career, when Boston didn't have the guns to win it all, but he was considered a great leader in Boston from a young age. Then of course, he immediately became coach, then GM, then legendary ambassador and so on. Schmidt was a no-none-sense kind of guy, who always gave his all and led by example. Reading on his career, he's pretty much the closest thing to Béliveau in terms of his overall body of work for his franchise, including post-retirement.

I didn't have time to finish everything in the Schmidt bio (still working on it), hopefully I get to it.



Bobby Hull is not Ilya Kovalchuk. This is reducing him to something he was not. Did he have some similarities with Kovalchuk? Yes. But he was a much better playmaker, more physical, more talented overall, and more intelligent. Plus he was facing much stronger competition and still looked like a man among boys.

Bauer was the playmaker of the Kraut Line but this is a bit of a caricature, Schmidt too could play with the puck. I think Schmidt is underrated, because his post-WWII years look on and off mostly because of injuries or playing defense for a part of one season.

For example, in 1947-1948, which is the only year I managed to investigate game by game, Schmidt played the first 17 games, then missed 4 games, then returned for 7 games but he was basically playing on one knee, got reinjured, missed 22 games, then returned to play the last 10 games of the season.

Visually:
Played 17 games healthy
Missed 4 games
Injured played 7 games
Missed 22 games
Played 10 games healthy

Well, the impact his presence had on the team when healthy was significant. Leaving out the 7 games he played when clearly injured and playing because the team was in a slump, he played 27 games when healthy, and missed 26 games.

Here's the Win/Loss ratios (and GF/GP and GA/GP) for the NHL in 1948, plus the With or Without Boston teams:

	GP	W/L	GF/GP	GA/GP
Toronto Maple Leafs	60	2.133	3.03	2.38
Detroit Red Wings	60	1.667	3.12	2.46
BOS with HEALTHY Schmidt	27	1.625	3.07	2.3
Boston Bruins	60	0.958	2.78	2.8
BOS Without Schmidt	26	0.818	2.69	3.16
New York Rangers	60	0.808	2.93	3.35
Montreal Canadiens	60	0.69	2.45	2.82
Chicago Black Hawks	60	0.588	3.25	3.76

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Clearly, Schmidt had a huge impact at the beginning of the season, and then when he returned healthy for the last 10 games. It's not a statistical coincidence neither, the causality was mentioned all over the newspapers after his return.

Note that 1947-1948 is one of his supposed "off-years" after the war.

It goes:

1946: Returns to NHL. Average season but makes the SC Finals.
1947: 2nd in Hart
1948: The year I just covered
1949: Missed 16 games + played defense for 15-ish games.
1950: 5th in Hart
1951: 1st in Hart
1952: 4th in Hart

So was Schmidt really on and off? To some extent yes, but not to the extent it looks on his hockeyreference page.

Wheeler: Ultimately he looks bad on a 1st line, but he is there to balance the lines. I don't think he has any warts that would make him sabotage the Hull-Schmidt duo's efficiency.



True, Roenick is nothing special, but he gives me three centers who can face big, physical centers, and three centers who can pressure the defensemen with a physical game. His value to Montreal is also thematic.



I can also double-shift Hull to play with them, or Dumart. Davidson I picked mostly for his physicality.



I think you're underrating Sprague Cleghorn a little bit, but I'm not gonna go to war for it. The impressive thing about Cleghorn is that he was de facto a top offensive, defensive and physical D. I haven't had time to reconstruct @overpass' study on how Cleghorn impacted his teams defensively, but I remember it was heavily in his favor. As for offensively and physically, it's clear he was near the top of his era.

That said your overall assessment is reasonable. Just wanted to note something about Coulter: I got a PM from @overpass today leading me to this thread: All-star team selected by NHL coaches (1927 to 1941)

Seems coaches voted Coulter a 1st AST in 1935, 1939 and 1940, whereas the official ASTs had him on the 2nd team. Three times is a lot and beyond a coincidence. Coaches preferred Coulter than writers, and saw more in him. Where would Coulter rank if those were his official ASTs?

Also, not sure Coulter was a weak puck-carrier. Not saying he was Harry Cameron or Sprague Cleghorn, but he was an intelligent player. Also @ImporterExporter had found this:

"...both excel as puck-carriers." (speaking of Seibert and Coulter after their trade)



If that's an issue (which I don't think it is, considering Bobby Rowe, while lacking in size, was a great pugilist and tough customer), I have Bob Armstrong as a spare, which solves the problem completely without sacrificing too much, especially given my Top 4 eats up a lot of TOI.



Wow really?! That sounds insane, considering how dangerous Kane is with his wrist shot even from a long distance.



Cleghorn is an amazing 2nd unit pointman though. But yeah, the unit as a whole is just OK.



Not even Coulter? Has to be one of the top PK D ever.



Not every team needs to have a pure shut down line. Trotz can create one if need be though. Dumart-Schmidt-Kane can act as one, then I put Hull-Ullman-Wheeler, which is not great defensively but not catastrophic neither for an offensive line.

What my Top 9 isn't lacking is physicality, which is more the essence of my forward group and what Trotz likes. Every line is physical and competent defensively.

Anyway, thanks again for the review, I appreciate it. Your team will be next in line, not sure when, probably this week-end.

I’m on the side that thinks Art Coulter is severely underrated here. He’s a great top pairing dman.

 

[Dreakmur]

I’m on the side that thinks Art Coulter is severely underrated here. He’s a great top pairing dman.

It’s great to say stuff like that, but where you actually rank him matters. If he’s a top pairing guy, that means someone else isn’t.

 

[BenchBrawl]

It’s great to say stuff like that, but where you actually rank him matters. If he’s a top pairing guy, that means someone else isn’t.

I do wonder if we should reevaluate Coulter's value in light of those coaches ASTs. He was the player most affected by the difference between the writers and coaches' opinion.

Don't think the jump would be stratospheric, but all of a sudden his record would be more similar to Johnson, Stewart, Pronovost etc; guys in that range.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Will at least give comments on all teams in my division so without any further ado

Montreal Maroons

Home: Montreal Forum; Montreal, QC
Two-Time Stanley Cup Champs (1926, 1935)

Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Jack Stewart
Alternates: Howie Morenz & Aurele Joliat

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Brett Hull
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Cowley - Bill Mosienko
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bernie Morris
Murray Murdoch - Dick Irvin - Rick Tocchet

Lionel Hitchman - Jack Stewart
Lionel Conacher - Red Horner
Jim Neilson - Red Dutton
Sandis Ozolinsh

Terry Sawchuk
Gump Worsley

Extra Skaters: Ab McDonald, Dan Bain

PP1: Krutov, Cowley, Morenz - Ozolinsh, Hull
PP2: Joliat, Irvin, Hay - Neilson, Mosienko
PK1: Morenz-Joliat, Hitchman, Stewart
PK2: Murdoch, Fredrickson, Conacher, Dutton​

1st line - Not lacking in talent what so ever, Morenz's reputation seems to have grown from when I joined and he was considered a goal scoring center without much all around game. You've paired him with his real running mate in Joliat and the combo works. Not sure how I feel about Hull as their wing mate, a slower third wheel who doesn't contribute anything besides goal scoring doesn't seem like the ideal fit. But talent wise this is one of the best top lines IMO

2nd line - Krutov and Cowley are a great offensive duo for a second line.....Mosienko just doesn't belong IMO in the top 6 of a 24 teamer. He also doesn't bring anything to table to cover for his linemates. Krutov is probably average defensively....but Cowley is probably the worst center defensively in a top 6 right? The line is really dragged down by Mosienko, I guess it's a good thing the Morenz line can go power on power because Shero will need to shelter this line at ES.

3rd line - A collection of players I looked at during the draft. George Hay is finally getting the respect he deserves. Bernie Morris is the second best scorer in PCHA history (by the numbers). Looking at the line it has a lot of elements to be successful, Frederickson has some defensive ability but I feel he gets too much credit for the series against Morenz in 1925. Hay is solid checker, I have nothing on Morris's all around game but I haven't gotten to him in my PCHA project. Frederickson is big and strong but doesn't read a super physical guy. Hay and Morris also don't seem to be much in that department.

4th line - Another scoring-focused line? Talentwise it doesn't look too bad, no other real comments

1st pair - I was punching air when you took Stewart over Clapper and that mistake really stands out with the way the rest of your team shaped up. Stewart is not really in the same class as the 1Ds in this draft but would be a strong 2D. Hitchman is probably a 4D so this pair talent wise seems among the worst in the draft.

2nd pair - I don't rate Conacher that highly, I think he's still a low end 2D to high end 3D so he looks pretty good on your second pair. Horner seems like a lower end 4D. But on the strength of Conacher I think this is a strong pairing.

3rd pair - Strong looking third pairing, will be able to play quality minutes.

Goalies - Sawchuk is a workhorse and a top 5 goalie.

Special teams - Morenz-Joliat as a first unit PP and PK unit seems like a lot of minutes to give them.....and not sure I'd want their units spent that way. Frederickson also doesn't read as a PKer at all.

 

[ResilientBeast]

A unique coach/roster combination! I think it pretty cool you have the greatest Soviet coach/builder, a huge presence in the development of the USSR, coaching a team made up of mostly pre consolidation and WWII players from North America.

Thanks for your great work on the PCHA as well RB! Really cool to see those very in depth breakdowns and I for one really appreciate the effort!

Coaching:

Tarasov is a good coach here. He shares a lot of similarities with Pete Green in that even beyond coaching win/losses there was a lot involved in the tactical side of the game and developing players even on an individual basis.

He's got a strong top 6 offensively. Has a couple of multi positional players on the back end.

It's always more difficult to assess chemistry between Tarasov and North American's but he's a good coach here and I think he has a lot of pieces he could work with given his preferences over the years.

Leadership:

Really solid group. Clapper wore the C for a long time, winning multiple titles in that role. He's probably underrated in this department. Lalonde and Goodfellow are strong alternates. It's a nice mix of leadership styles.


Forwards:


Lethal top 6.

Taylor being the centerpiece provides elite offensive ability down the middle. His skating will push teams back on their heels and Busher Jackson provides a great goal scorer who should benefit by the best playmaker of the pre consolidation era IMO. Alfredsson is a good glue guy here. Not elite offense but compared to a lot of other 3rd wheel types on a top line, he's better than many I've seen. Plus he brings good fore checking and some added defensive chops, which is nice as Jackson won't bring a ton there.

Not an extremely physical group by any means, nor soft. Probably pretty average in terms of physicality but overall this is a line that should produce consistent scoring chances as one of the better collective offensive lines.

Very strong 2nd line. Obviously Lalonde is a nice luxury C here! He's physical, has about as much offense as Taylor and in Malkin-esque role should shrive on improved match ups. Smith is a pure offensive winger here. Great peak, little longevity in the top leagues though (east or west). MacKay is a very nice addition as he'll serve as the defensive conscious more than anything, though he also possess really nice 2nd line scoring abilities.

Bottom 6 is a classic hodgepodge of depth scoring/checkers (Roberts, Oatman, Prentice) and strong defensive players (Lepine, Walker, Backes). Nothing special on the whole but collectively just a solid collection of players who should play very well in the roles you have them in.


Power Play:

Very strong top unit. Able to use Taylor up top w/Goodfellow is a wonderful blue line. Lalonde headlines the forwards and along with Jackson/Smith should provide plenty of fireworks all around. Just a really nice mix of playmaking, goal scoring, and all around top shelf offensive abilities.

2nd group looks decent. Alf is a nice F option usable on the point. Patrick is ok there. It's a nice mix of F's there. Shouldn't have any problems getting in on puck retrievals with Roberts/Clapper.


Defensemen:

Clapper probably grades out just below a #1 level Dman in a 24 team draft but he's right there. Some may have him as the last #1 type or just outside that mark. I've always been a big fan of Clapper even dating back to my primitive years here. This guy was a 2 time AS at RW and then a Norris caliber defender for a handful of years in the late 30's/early 40's. Great leader. Strong 2 way player who still managed solid offensive scoring totals despite swapping back to D at 30 years of age. He's a nice anchor because he's not average/below average in either direction.

Goodfellow is very much like Clapper. Multi positional star who brings good offense from the back end while being a solid defender in his own. I think he's a low end #2 here but combined this is a decent 1st pairing. I think some teams may be able to push them pretty hard in their own end at times but it's not a duo that should be considered weak or inept defensively. They'll have no trouble moving the puck from either side and it's a big combo, solid physically speaking though not great.

Reardon is a rock solid #3 here. Crazy physical, he'll be in the box more than some for sure but brings a wealth of truculence/heavy checking and can move the puck at an acceptable rate with play in his own end the calling card. Crawford is another AS player. Right handed shot, though not much in the way of offensive value. This group overall is much more slanted defensively which is a nice contrast to the top unit. They should do a good job defending and making people's lives difficult in the pain department!

Patrick-Svedberg seems like it's just ok. I'd probably consider these two fairly weak in their own end so you'll want to try and avoid having them out against the premium scoring lines as often as possible but moving forward, getting the puck out of danger and generating offense from the blue line won't be a problem here.

Obviously going as F heavy as you did, the blue line was going to suffer some, but again, you managed to put together a competent top pairing and soilid 2nd group with guys that grade out as a low 1, low 2, average 3, and strong 4. Not a bad effort at all!

Penalty Kill:

Lepine-Walker is a tremendous top F duo. Reardon-Clapper is probably below average as far as defenders go.

MacKay is great on the 2nd unit. How much PK did Prentice play? I don't recall him being heavily used but I may be hazy in that area of his career. I know Alfredsson played a good bit there and posted impressive scoring totals on the kill. I may consider him up on the 2nd unit with MacKay. Goodfellow is decent and Crawford strong there.

Goalies:

It's Patrick Roy. Do we need to say anything else haha? And you got him an excellent backup in Lehman! I'm guessing the best in the league actually! Probably didn't need that good a back up but he'll absolutely help keep Roy fresh in the regular season as Pat wasn't the workhorse a Brodeur or Hall were for example. Best goalies pair in the league to be sure!


Overall:

Great team sir. You have the best G in the league, a playoff legend. Really strong scoring F's should keep up the pressure on opposing squads. Solid enough D corps especially for a team that went F heavy early. If they can hold up or Roy stands on his head, this team should do well.

Thanks again bud, and good luck moving forward!

Thanks for the comments

Coaching - Tarasov was selected because of his explicit focus on skating and offense, I get the fit nationality wise is funky but we make a lot of assumptions and I can't imagine it being that bad.

2nd Line: For the RS Smith will play with MacKay and Lalonde but depending on the marquee players on the other team will bounce between lines and C/LW to shelter him from needing to take defensive responsibility.

Bottom six - I think you're underselling some of the players down there, Gordon Roberts is a fantastic 3rd liner at 24 teams he brings solid offence, is somewhat physical and was a notably decent checker. For a third line built to play two-way hockey he fits like a glove, same with Oatman. Prentice is stashed on the 4th line for now, but will be moved up in the aforementioned moving of Tommy Smith. Jack Walker is the elite defensive piece of the group and will move to C and Backes will be shifted out of the lineup if we're facing centers line Morenz or your own team with Orr. My top 2 centers can't be relied to play shut down hockey so having an elite defensive C stashed on the wing for now will work out well for us.

Bottom pairing - That's fair assumption but as was brought up in the Euros project Svedberg played with another puck rushing offensive guy (I think if I remember correctly) and Patrick isn't that offense only IMO. Given how hockey was played it's hard to get a read on how it would translate. I think my top 2 pairs are rock solid in their own end so having a bottom pairing that talent wise is strong outweighs the potential for shakier defensive play.

PK - Prentice's skillset reaks of a fantastic PKer, his prime is missed by overpass's sheet so I'm not sure.

Goalies - I picked Lehman after a night of some adult beverages and don't regret it. Roy's best statistical seasons he player ~60% of his teams games and we're seeing in the NHL right now the advantages of having two goalies. Roy will be the unquestioned playoff starter and Lehman will help us get there.

Thanks overall for the positive comments IE I'll be getting to your team shortly.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Gallifrey TARDIS

Roster:
Coach: Dick Irvin
Captain: Ted Lindsay
Alternates: Valeri Vasiliev, Derian Hatcher

First Line: Ted Lindsay - Ron Francis - Maurice Richard
Second Line: Reg Noble - Gilbert Perreault - Helmuts Balderis
Third Line: Dick Duff - Connor McDavid - Peter Bondra
Fourth Line: Rick Nash - Dale Hunter - Pit Martin

First Pairing: Bill Gadsby - Valeri Vasiliev
Second Pairing: Derian Hatcher - Sergei Zubov
Third Pairing: Jimmy Watson - Adam Foote

Spare Skaters: Wilf Paiement, Rod Seiling, Ken Linseman

Goaltending: Tony Esposito, Tiny Thompson (These guys are going to split time over the season.)

First Power Play Unit:
Ted Lindsay - Gilbert Perreault - Maurice Richard
Ron Francis - Sergei Zubov

Second Power Play Unit:
Rick Nash - Connor McDavid - Helmuts Balderis
Reg Noble - Bill Gadsby

First Penalty Kill Unit:
Ron Francis - Peter Bondra
Derian Hatcher - Valeri Vasiliev

Second Penalty Kill Unit:
Dale Hunter - Reg Noble
Jimmy Watson - Sergei Zubov

A very solid-looking rookie entry.

1st line - Talent wise probably the sexiest looking top line in the draft and I can't think of any fit issues here. Richard and Lindsay have more than enough physicality to carry a line by themselves so having them together will really bruise some defensemen. Francis is there to help distribute the puck and back check. No complaints here.

2nd line - I guess kind of meh on my end. None of these players really wow me but they're all good enough for their rolls. Perrault-Balderis being the offensive engine of the line and Noble their to do the little things. It's a classic formula 2 offensive stars and 3rd guy who fills in the gaps.

3rd line - Comments about the 2nd line's formula apply here as well. Is Dick Duff good enough defensive to cover for this line? McDavid is better this year...but is generally just bad defensively. His offense is tremendous and you've given him some components he likes...but I feel like Bondra is too one dimensional. McDavid excels with smart balanced offensive players as wing man like RNH & Draisaitl. Is Bondra good enough playmaker to set McDavid up? Duff is like Kassian when paired with McDavid their to crash and bang. Talent wise it's pretty good buoyed heavily by McDavid.

4th line - A physical 4th line to cycle the puck and crash and bang. Talent looks fine

1st pair - Gadsby is in that last tier of acceptable 1Ds and Vasiliev was someone I would've taken had Clapper been good to start my D. So it's overall a strong pair with two fairly evenly matched (talent wise) players competent offensively while being tough as nails defensively.

2nd pair - I'm overall pretty meh on this pairing, Zubov is pretty firmly in my mind a low end 3D/high end 4D while Hatcher feels like a high end 4D at 24 teams. I know you mentioned them playing together, but I believe another poster pointed out they didn't. So they don't have that proven chemistry bonus working for them, but stylistically a good fit. Maybe down on talent a bit but a good second pairing.

3rd pair - I know we talked about Foote in the draft thread.....he's a middle of the pack defence only 5D at 24 teams, Watson is pretty close to Foote so this makes this overall a pretty strong pairing talent wise. I don't know much about Watson but it just on the surface seems light on offense but that just might be a lack of knowledge on my part.

Goalies - I think you picked both before Lehman and I'll die on the hill that was probably a mistake. Esposito is a middle of pack starter in the RS but for a team with PO aspirations he's firmly in the bottom chunk of starters. That post Tarheel made about Thompson's record in 0-1-2 GA in the playoffs gave me more respect for his PO resume but he's still nothing special in the RS or POs.

Special teams.....my one comment I think McDavid has to be in the top unit somehow

 

[ResilientBeast]

Pittsburgh AC:

Original Red and White colours of the AC

"No individuals. One TEAM."

​

Coach: Pete Green

Captain: Scott Stevens
Alternate: Bobby Orr
Alternate: Yvan Cournoyer
Alternate: Joe Malone


ROSTER:


Forwards:

Johnny Bucyk - Joe Malone (A) - Vladimir Martinec

Bun Cook - Jacques Lemaire - Yvan Cournoyer (A)

Rusty Crawford - Dale Hawerchuk - Glenn Anderson
-
Nick Metz - Phil Goyette - Bill Guerin

Dave Poulin

Alex Tanguay


Defensemen:

Scott Stevens (C) - Bobby Orr (A)

Jacques Laperriere - Earl Seibert

Flash Hollett - Ken Morrow

Gennadiy Tsygankov


Goalies:

Johnny Bower

Hap Holmes


Special Teams:

PP1

Malone

Seibert - Cournoyer - Bucyk

Orr

PP2

Martinec - Lemaire - Anderson
Hawerchuk - Hollett

PK1

Cook - Metz
Stevens - Orr

PK2

Goyette/Poulin - Crawford/Martinec
Laperriere - Morrow/Tsygankov​

To return the favour....

I won't dance around it to much I was super skeptical of the potential your team had after those first 3 picks and I think it turned out about as good as it could've up front. Though I assume you were sad when Selfishman scooped Stewart, I assumed you be the Nels team.

1st line - I read through jarek's bio on Martinec is a more recent one available? There's very little about his all around game in there and that will greatly change how I feel about this line. Malone we've sparred over already good goalscoring focused center and was a good pickup for you. Bucyk I'm just not a fan of I think his standing in this draft is a little overrated. I know you'll say he's playing with a goal scoring C in Malone and Bobby Orr so he doesn't need context around his VsX scores etc but as an offensive weapon he doesn't do much for me. Intangibly? Great corner man and physical presence which Malone and Martinec look like they're lacking. If Martinec has defensive chops I'd the line a bump a bit from where I have them now but otherwise seems heavily tilted towards all out offense. I guess the luxuries 3D start affords you.

2nd line - Your Cook research was interesting and definitely moves him past 3rd-wheel who's getting draft off the back of his lines accomplishments alone. Between him and Lemaire you've got strong defensive play from this line and Cournoyer is the more offense focused third wheel. The line looks like it checks all the boxes except talent...but again with a 3D start you did the best you could've.

3rd line - Probably the strongest scoring third line in the draft? Hawerchuk is a 2C and you've got him slumming it down here on the third line. Anderson is a that kamikaze "forward with strength" type who can convert on Hawerchuk's passes and Crawford is there to do the dirty work. Love this 3rd line.

1st pair - Fantastic. Next

2nd pair - I know you've been pumping Laperriere in the HOH project, I just don't quite see it with him. Siebert looks fantastic down here so it's naturally the strongest second pairing in the draft

3rd pair - Who cares

Goalies - Bower/Holmes should be able to guide your team through the RS as a strong platoon. And in the playoffs both goalies proved themselves over and over again so will punch above their weight there.

Now Pete Green....I'm not sure if he's the right coach for this team, the 1st and 3rd lines don't really mesh with his gameplans that well. I will read through your old bio before voting and perhaps revise my thoughts, but he just doesn't seem like the right coach for a team headlined with Orr and Seibert two rushing D on the backend.

Overall - unconventional and I'm sure going to be a pain to deal with in a PO series.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Ottawa Senators

Home: The Arena on Laurier Ave

Coach: Scotty Bowman
Captain: Jonathan Toews
Alternates: Red Kelly, Dickie Moore

Dickie Moore - Denis Savard - Mike Bossy
Sergei Kapustin - Sergei Fedorov - Igor Larionov
Pavol Demitra - Jonathan Toews - Marian Hossa
Wendel Clark - Derek Sanderson - Ron Ellis
Spares: Ivan Hlinka, Steve Thomas

Red Kelly - Bob Goldham
Alexei Kasatonov - Sergei Gonchar
Leo Reise Jr - John Carlson
Spare: Mattias Ohlund

Bill Durnan
Percy LeSueur​

​

Power Play 1: Moore - Savard - Bossy - Kelly - Gonchar
Power Play 2: Kapustin - Fedorov - Larionov - Kasatonov - Gonchar/Carlson

Penalty Kill 1: Sanderson-Fedorov-Reise-Kasatonov
Penalty Kill 2: Toews-Hossa-Kelly-Goldham
Other PKers: Larionov, Ellis, Carlson

Coach Scotty Bowman will have the option to run out an all-Russian five man unit, designed on the model of the Soviet Green Unit of the 1980s and the Russian Five of the Detroit Red Wings in the mid-90s. Kasatonov played in the Green Unit with Larionov, and Fedorov played in the Russian Five with Larionov.

Kapustin-Fedorov-Larionov
Kasatonov-Gonchar

1st line - A discount 1st line C running with two excellent wingers. The unit is really relying on Moore to do the backchecking and be the physical presence which could be an issue during game situations. Seems like a little bit of a waste of Moore's offense using him as the third wheel offensively. Talent wise the line looks pretty decent, it is getting dragged down by Savard but Moore and Bossy keep it from looking out of place.

2nd line - I hate Larionov on RW, he's a center during his entire peak and then his twilight years Bowman moves him to RW. All the discussion about position moving and this one feels the most egregious to me. At least Nels Stewart had 2 of his top 4 seasons at LW. What are Larionov's accomplishments at wing? Fedorov is your teams best center and looks good on the second line. Kaspustin is a player I think a lot of people look to in the late stages of the draft to find a physical guy. Talent wise it all looks good, but Larionov on the wing is challenging for me.

3rd line - Fantastic two way scoring line here. A little light on physicality, but no weak link in this chain during critical moments in a game.

4th line - Energy line, makes up for some of the physicality lacking from the rest of the team.

1st pair - Kelly is obviously the feature piece of this unit and he'll have to do a lot of heavy lifting as Goldham is a 4D at 24 teams. But looking at the next unit it appears you went 1/4 & 2/3 so the poor talent of the second member of your top unit makes sense. Kelly will keep them from getting killed at ES. I don't know how I feel about partnering your best D with the worst one in your top 4 but that's more a strategic question than a fit one. Stylistically it looks pretty good to me

2nd pair - Kasatonov to baby sit Gonacher is a nice stylistic fit, Gonchar isn't the all around player Fetisov is but he wasn't terrible defensively at his peak. I like this pairing, it's strong at the expense of your top unit but will handle their minutes well.

3rd pair - Don't know much about Reise but 70s bio makes him read as a strong defensive D which looks to be a great fit with Carlson. Talent wise seems like a pretty decent pairing overall.

Goalies - Durnan is in that tier of that "just below league average" goalies so goaltending isn't a strength for this squad. Happy to see LeSueur as a backup.

 

[Professor What]

A very solid-looking rookie entry.

1st line - Talent wise probably the sexiest looking top line in the draft and I can't think of any fit issues here. Richard and Lindsay have more than enough physicality to carry a line by themselves so having them together will really bruise some defensemen. Francis is there to help distribute the puck and back check. No complaints here.

2nd line - I guess kind of meh on my end. None of these players really wow me but they're all good enough for their rolls. Perrault-Balderis being the offensive engine of the line and Noble their to do the little things. It's a classic formula 2 offensive stars and 3rd guy who fills in the gaps.

3rd line - Comments about the 2nd line's formula apply here as well. Is Dick Duff good enough defensive to cover for this line? McDavid is better this year...but is generally just bad defensively. His offense is tremendous and you've given him some components he likes...but I feel like Bondra is too one dimensional. McDavid excels with smart balanced offensive players as wing man like RNH & Draisaitl. Is Bondra good enough playmaker to set McDavid up? Duff is like Kassian when paired with McDavid their to crash and bang. Talent wise it's pretty good buoyed heavily by McDavid.

4th line - A physical 4th line to cycle the put and crash and bang. Talent looks fine

1st pair - Gadsby is in that last tier of acceptable 1Ds and Vasiliev was someone I would've taken had Clapper been good to start my D. So it's overall a strong pair with two fairly evenly matched (talent wise) players competent offensively while being tough as nails defensively.

2nd pair - I'm overall pretty meh on this pairing, Zubov is pretty firmly in my mind a low end 3D/high end 4D while Hatcher feels like a high end 4D at 24 teams. I know you mentioned them playing together, but I believe another poster pointed out they didn't. So they don't have that proven chemistry bonus working for them, but stylistically a good fit. Maybe down on talent a bit but a good second pairing.

3rd pair - I know we talked about Foote in the draft thread.....he's a middle of the pack defence only 5D at 24 teams, Watson is pretty close to Foote so this makes this overall a pretty strong pairing talent wise. I don't know much about Watson but it just on the surface seems light on offense but that just might be a lack of knowledge on my part.

Goalies - I think you picked both before Lehman and I'll die on the hill that was probably a mistake. Esposito is a middle of pack starter in the RS but for a team with PO aspirations he's firmly in the bottom chunk of starters. That post Tarheel made about Thompson's record in 0-1-2 GA in the playoffs gave me more respect for his PO resume but he's still nothing special in the RS or POs.

Special teams.....my one comment I think McDavid has to be in the top unit somehow

Thanks for the feedback. The only response I have is re: the Hatcher-Zubov real life pairing. The only comment I can think of that was made about them not playing together was TDMM saying that he knew they didn't play together during one playoff run (I can't remember the year). But, he also spoke about them playing together in this thread. And it's also discussed here. There's a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette story on newspapers.com that talks about their pairing here, which is unfortunately not available to my subscription level, but a Google search shows this line from it: "The odd-couple, fury-and-finesse defense pairing of Derian Hatcher and Sergei Zubov." There was one other article I read before that I can't find now that spoke of them being an on again off again pairing for a few years after the Cup run. They weren't each other's main partners, but they did have some experience together, so not only do they fit stylistically, but I feel that there's plenty of evidence of their playing together at times to give a personal chemistry bonus as well.