ATD 2012 Summary

[TheDevilMadeMe]

As per tradition.

Cut and paste and voice your opinion:

Biggest Steal of the draft
Biggest Reach of the draft
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft
Biggest blunder selection of the draft
A Player finally getting respect in the draft
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft
A player you've discovered in this draft
Most underrated player taken
Most overrated player taken
Favourite line of the draft
Best assembled line of the draft
Worst assembled line of the draft
Favourite pairing of defensemen
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft

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Best selection: You cannot vote for players you own
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'Worst' Selection
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Also, feel free to add any other comments or reflections about your experience/team this year.

Click to read more...

 

[BenchBrawl]

For my first impression , this was the draft I enjoyed the most in my short career as GM , all drafts included.

I think the summary lacks:

Favorite 1st , 2nd , 3rd and 4th line.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'll post mine in a little bit.

 

[Velociraptor]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Jack Crawford, NJ
Biggest Reach of the draft: Barry Beck, MTL
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Jack Walker, HAM
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: Boris Alexandrov, who is this?
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Helmut Balderis seems to be getting a lot of respect after being a pretty enigmatic player prior to this years draft.
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Ed Litzenberger, KEN
A player you've discovered in this draft: Jack Crawford, NJ
Most underrated player taken: Don Luce, GAR
Most overrated player taken: Nikolai Sologubov, TOR
Favourite line of the draft: Jack Walker - Dave Keon - Shane Doan, lethal defensive combo with some offensive ability.
Best assembled line of the draft: Bobby Hull - Max Bentley - Cam Neely
Worst assembled line of the draft: Cy Denneny - Frank Nighbor - Helmut Balderis, I already voiced my opinion on the assassination thread, I just don't see it working.
Favourite pairing of defensemen: Emile Bouchard - Larry Robinson
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Pat Egan - Dickie Boon, this was hard, but these two IIRC are both rushing defensemen or very one-dimensional offensive blueliners.
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals: Lada Togliatti, I think our teams are fairly similar and I like the way his team was assembled.
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: Philadelphia Flyers, start to finish, very strong team.
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: mark vs. everybody

---

Best selection: You cannot vote for players you own
1st round: Guy Lafleur
2nd round: Frank Boucher
3rd round: Peter Forsberg
4th round: Busher Jackson
5th round: Lionel Conacher
6th round: Bill White
7th round: Rod Gilbert
8th round: Mike Grant, see the bio on BBS's thread
9th round: Craig Ramsay
10th round: Marty Pavelich
11th round: Joe Klukay
12nd round: Don Luce
13th round: Bill Hajt
14th round: Smokey Harris
15th round: Adam Graves
16th round: Pat Verbeek
17th round: Rogatien Vachon
18th round: Phil Russell
19th round: Al Secord, or Stamkos
20th round: Murray Murdoch
21st round: Al Rollins
22nd round: Neal Broten
23th round: Lorne Carr
24th round: Patrick Kane
25th round: Mush March

'Worst' Selection
1st round: Slava Fetisov, belongs in the first round and it really depends on how one decides to build their team, but I think he is below Messier and a few others.
2nd round: none
3rd round: Clint Benedict, I'm a lot less sold on him now that it was pretty much proved that he is on the same level as Vezina minus playoffs, I think he should go lower if there is that much parity between them.
4th round: Roy Conacher, I don't think he should go before Lionel.
5th round: Clark Gillies
6th round: Harry Howell, like Benedict, I'm less sold because of comparisons with players who are canonized much lower. And I don't see Crawford worthy of a 150 pick jump, although he is a lot more impressive.
7th round: Brad McCrimmon, as much as I did like him, I really don't think he has a place this early in the draft (RIP)
8th round: Nikolai Sologubov
9th round: Adam Foote, see: McCrimmon
10th round: Bert Corbeau
11th round: Dany Heatley
12nd round: Pierre Turgeon, I think him and Nicholls are similar case.
13th round: Barry Beck
14th round: Charlie Huddy
15th round: Lars-Erik Sjoberg
16th round: Bill Barilko, or Dion Phaneuf
17th round: Tony Amonte, love him, but I don't know if that jump was all that necessary.
18th round: Louis Berlinguette #rattled
19th round: Boris Alexandrov
20th round: Jan Erixon, little bit premature IMO
21st round: Kirk Maltby
22nd round: Duane Sutter
23th round: Stanislav Nevesely
24th round: Ladislav Trojak
25th round: Milan Lucic

 

[vecens24]

As far as Amonte (who I expect to make this list a whole bunch because I did reach for him, not in my opinion by the 200 pick leap I gave him, but probably closer to 100 selections), JUST LOOK AT THIS STATE REPRESENTING MY THIRD LINE!!!!

DO YOU WANT MILLIONS OF BRUINS FANS ANGRY AT YOU AND YOUR ATD TEAMS?!?!?! I THINK NOT!

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Tkachuk-JR-Amonte is one of my favourite lines in the draft, not to worry Vec.

 

[vecens24]

Tkachuk-JR-Amonte is one of my favourite lines in the draft, not to worry Vec.

Lol oh it was a total joke don't worry I'm not going to get offended by anything on this list haha.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Biggest Steals of the draft: Sweeney Schriner at 181, Helmut Balderis at 318, Jiri Holik at 419, Lynn Patrick at 572
Biggest Reach of the draft: If it weren't for a single liner in Ultimate Hockey, would Bert Corbeau be selected in the draft at all?
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Hawkeytown trading up for Bill Quackenbush, probably the last two-way defenseman in his class, Stoneberg drafting Arkady Chernyshev to help out Tarasov
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: Bugg's Alexandrov mishap (lol), Monster Bertuzzi drafting Mike Keenan as his coach after already having Gordie Drillon in the fold (in a vacuum Keenan was a great pick, but fit matters)
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Dan Boyle. Where was this respect when I had him on my bottom pairing last year, Sturm?
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Lionel Coacher, George Hainsworth
A player you've discovered in this draft: Helmut Balderis
Most underrated player takens: Jiri Holik
Most overrated player takens: Johnny Bower
Favourite line of the draft: Doug Bentley - Phil Esposito - Hooley Smith
Best assembled line of the draft: Tommy Phillips - Syl Apps - Jarome Iginla - the perfect LWL line
Worst assembled line of the draft: Vselvod Bobrov - Bill Cowley - Bobby Bauer
Favourite pairing of defensemen: Mark Howe - Babe Siebert (not the most talented but a perfect fit for each other)
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Ian Turnbull - Paul Reinhart
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals: Philadelphia Flyers - Gordie Howe and Leo Boivin vs Ted Lindsay, Duke Keats and Jack Stewart? The ice would be covered in blood.
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: Minnesota Fighting Saints - the only team in the draft that I where I can't claim an advantage on my top defensive pairing
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: I honestly didn't know the story of Ted Lindsay skating around, pointing his stick like a gun at the Toronto crowd after scoring the winning goal in a game after receiving death threats.

---

Best selection: You cannot vote for players you own
1st round: Red Kelly at 18
2nd round: Sergei Makarov at 61
3rd round: Andy Bathgate at 74
4th round: Nels Stewart at 118
5th round: Denis Savard at 157
6th round: Sweeney Schriner at 181
7th round: Jiri Holecek at 195
8th round: Baldy Northcott at 255
9th round: Alf Smith at 267
10th round: Helmut Balderis at 318
11th round: Dany Heatley at 344
12nd round: Milan Novy at 371
13th round: Ivan Hlinka at 414
14th round: Jiri Holik at 419
15th round: Punch Imlach at 472
16th round: Bernie Nicholls at 511
17th round: Arkady Chernyshev at 541
18th round: Lynn Patrick at 572
19th round: Ernie Russell at 603
20th round: Jaroslav Holik at 618
21st round: Percy LeSueur at 650
22nd round: Bobby Rowe at 697
23th round: Lorne Carr at 729
24th round: Mike Richards at 767
25th round: Fred Lake at 773

'Worst' Selection

First off, I don't actually think there was a bad pick in the first three rounds by anyone (well done), but I forced myself to pick "the worst."

1st round: Bryan Trottier at 15 (no actual bad picks, but the first selected in his tier)
2nd round: Joe Malone at 58 (I've selected him only a little later in the past)
3rd round: Doug Gilmour at 89?
4th round: Yvan Cournoyer at 101
5th round: Clark Gillies at 158
6th round: Glenn Anderson at 182
7th round: Bob Baun at 218
8th round: Tim Kerr at 227
9th round: Gary Roberts at 257
10th round: Bert Corbeau at 300
11th round: Vsevolod Bobrov at 311
12nd round: Reed Larson at 382
13th round: Wendel Clark at 393
14th round: Reijo Ruotsalainen at 441
15th round: Stefan Persson at 457
16th round: Bill Barilko at 504
17th round: Yvon Lambert at 522
18th round: Kelly Miller at 557
19th round: ?
20th round: Ray Ferraro at 632
21st round: Kirk Maltby at 665
22nd round: Duane Sutter at 684
23th round: Who is Stanislav Nevesely? (at 734)
24th round: Ladislav Trojak at 739
25th round: Red Kelly (coach) at 792

 

[vecens24]

Not going to lie TDMM, I'm completely and thoroughly unimpressed with Reijo Ruotsalainen after taking him. If I didn't need a RH shot on my top PP (and yeah I think he's solid there next to Harvey), I'm not sure he belongs in the ATD even. Ask Sturm I guess more about how awesome he looks, but based on physical numbers and everything I came away unimpressed to that point. Hia best offensive season was totally influenced by playing about half the year at LW. That's why I've totally reduced their ES time to 10 mins per game. I'm almost positive that Brian Campbell is better.

There's no way that Jack Evans isnt a better player in a vacuum.

EDIT: by the way it's hilarious that your best/worst selection is bookended by Red Kelly lol

 

[jarek]

I'm puzzled by a line consisting of two guys who played a decade together, both being top-100 players, being viewed as the worst assembled line of the draft.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm puzzled by a line consisting of two guys who played a decade together, both being top-100 players, being viewed as the worst assembled line of the draft.

Did Cowley and Bauer ever play on the same line in real life? I honestly don't know if they did, but I know they weren't regular linemates. Both were big time puck carriers. Both players are noted for being soft and poor defensively... and they are still better intangibles-wise than Bobrov.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Did Cowley and Bauer ever play on the same line in real life? I honestly don't know if they did, but I know they weren't regular linemates. Both were big time puck carriers. Both players are noted for being soft and poor defensively... and they are still better intangibles-wise than Bobrov.

I thought he was talking about Nighbor-Denneny-Balderis that Velociraptor ranked as the worst assembled line in the draft.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

6th round: Harry Howell, like Benedict, I'm less sold because of comparisons with players who are canonized much lower. And I don't see Crawford worthy of a 150 pick jump, although he is a lot more impressive.

I don't think Howell was particularly good value, but none of the defensemen taken near him were either, really. The #2 defense position had been very decimated by the time BB got to Howell, so he had little choice to make a mini-reach with his #2 dman position left unfilled.

I see Howell as a very good #3 playing a bit over his head as a #2, but next to a very good #1.

Crawford would be a more average #3.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I thought he was talking about Nighbor-Denneny-Balderis that Velociraptor ranked as the worst assembled line in the draft.

Oh yeah, I don't get that either.

 

[arrbez]

I'm puzzled by a line consisting of two guys who played a decade together, both being top-100 players, being viewed as the worst assembled line of the draft.

Unless there's something I really don't know about Darragh vs. Balderis, I'm kinda at a loss for that one too.

I don't think anyone is calling it the greatest line in ATD history, but surely it'll work, since it did in real life.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Biggest Steal of the draft - Pat Lafontaine
Biggest Reach of the draft - Brad McCrimmon
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft - John Leclair
Biggest blunder selection of the draft - ?? None
A Player finally getting respect in the draft - Sedin twins
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft - Cam Neely
A player you've discovered in this draft - Duke Keats - didn't know he was this good
Most underrated player taken - Alexander Mogilny
Most overrated player taken - Frank Nighbor
Favourite line of the draft - Goulet-Lemieux-Makarov...buckle up
Best assembled line of the draft - Lindsay-Keats-Selanne
Worst assembled line of the draft - Bobrov-Cowley-Bauer
Favourite pairing of defensemen - Gadsby-Clapper
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen - Tegubov-Lyapkin, lol
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals - Kimberly Dynamiters
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals - Hartford Whalers
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft - Politics more than anything win.

---

Best selection: You cannot vote for players you own
1st round: Patrick Roy
2nd round: Frank Mahovlich
3rd round: Brett Hull
4th round: Nels Stewart
5th round: Denis Savard
6th round: Paul Kariya
7th round: Mats Sundin
8th round: Vlad Konstantinov
9th round: Tom Dunderdale
10th round: Alexander Mogilny
11th round: Al Arbour
12nd round: Tommy Ivan
13th round: Dave Andreychuk
14th round: Trevor Linden
15th round: Punch Imlach
16th round: Keith Primeau
17th round: Ken Hitchcock
18th round: Ken Wharram
19th round: Paul Henderson
20th round: Eddie Shack
21st round: Buddy O'Connor
22nd round: Neal Broten
23th round: Ed Jovanovski
24th round: None
25th round: Roman Hamrlik

'Worst' Selection
1st round: Can't go wrong
2nd round: Can't go wrong
3rd round: Can't go wrong
4th round: Hooley Smith
5th round: Alexander Ragulin
6th round: Woody Dumart
7th round: Brad McCRimmon
8th round: Patrick Elias
9th round: Doug Jarvis
10th round: Ed Westfall
11th round: Butch Goring
12nd round: Brian Sutter
13th round: Barry Beck
14th round: Steve Smith
15th round: Dale Hunter
16th round: Dion Phaneuf
17th round: Tomas Holmstrom
18th round: Jamie Macoun
19th round: Milan Hejduk
20th round: Patrick Sharp
21st round: Al Arbour
22nd round: Jay Pandolfo
23th round: Craig Conroy
24th round: Bob Probert
25th round: Martin Straka

 

[Velociraptor]

Oh yeah, I don't get that either.

I don't know if it's the worst assembled, but it's definitely getting very overrated in my opinion.

First Line: I like that you have Denneny and Nighbor together, and it's two thirds of a good defensive line. But I don't think Balderis fits on this line at all, he was much more of a puck carrier, and that definitely takes away from Nighbor's really sole strong offensive attribute, playmaking. Balderis is a good scorer, but I really don't think you're going to get his full ability on this line, although with two good defensive players it will cover for a lot of his mistakes.

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most people here, but from a general standpoint and what I know from these players. The above is my reasoning for the line not being extremely well-assembled, perhaps I should pick another line to coin 'worst-assembled' but I think that it should be noted this is not among the stronger first lines in the draft. Call me crazy but this is a opinionated thread, and this is what I see. Also, I misinterpreted Denneny's defensive play, he is physical but as explained earlier, nothing special defensively, which again brings down the defensive value of the line.

Sorry for not opening my eyes, Bobrov - Cowley - Bauer is a brutally assembled line. I would've kept Starshinov and Larionov.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I don't think it's getting overrated , nobody is really rating it that high , it's my whole top 9 that people seemed to like more than any seperate line per say , but I guess some of the ''overrated'' feeling must come from the fact that my team is really talked about a lot , which is definitely NOT my initiative.I wasn't really seeking attention during the assassination thread , it just happened and it was out of my control.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I don't think it's getting overrated , nobody is really rating it that high , it's my whole top 9 that people seemed to like more than any seperate line per say , but I guess some of the ''overrated'' feeling must come from the fact that my team is really talked about a lot , which is definitely NOT my initiative.I wasn't really seeking attention during the assassination thread , it just happened and it was out of my control.

Denneny-Nighbor-Balderis has taken a lot of heat and indeed it's just an average top line IMO, but the Oates-Hextall connection is very strong for a second line as well your 3rd line is top notch.

 

[jarek]

Unless there's something I really don't know about Darragh vs. Balderis, I'm kinda at a loss for that one too.

I don't think anyone is calling it the greatest line in ATD history, but surely it'll work, since it did in real life.

THE biggest factor, for me, if I was voting, is that these guys had success in the playoffs.. and not just some small amount of it, but these guys, together, led FIVE cup winners in playoff points. That is HUGE. What other duo in hockey history, outside of the elite of the elite, have ever done that?

 

[jarek]

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most people here, but from a general standpoint and what I know from these players. The above is my reasoning for the line not being extremely well-assembled, perhaps I should pick another line to coin 'worst-assembled' but I think that it should be noted this is not among the stronger first lines in the draft. Call me crazy but this is a opinionated thread, and this is what I see. Also, I misinterpreted Denneny's defensive play, he is physical but as explained earlier, nothing special defensively, which again brings down the defensive value of the line.

Sorry for not opening my eyes, Bobrov - Cowley - Bauer is a brutally assembled line. I would've kept Starshinov and Larionov.

Just keep what I said above in mind when forming your opinion. I have VERY high opinions of Denneny and especially Nighbor, so I'm probably very biased here, but even I wouldn't call the line one of the better first lines. Nighbor is about the 40th-50th best player, and Denneny is maybe 60th-70th. It's a great duo with two very strong players, brought down ever so slightly by a worse RW. The thing, though, is that Denneny and Nighbor had proven real life success in multiple years, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs. And, despite what mark says, I think that all three are capable puck carriers for an ATD first line (Balderis less so). Don't underestimate Denneny's playmaking.. the guy has a very strong playmaking record for a guy considered to be primarily a goalscorer. The only actual criticism I would have of that line is the lack of goal scoring, overall. However, I'm not entirely informed on Balderis, so that may not be true.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Just keep what I said above in mind when forming your opinion. I have VERY high opinions of Denneny and especially Nighbor, so I'm probably very biased here, but even I wouldn't call the line one of the better first lines. Nighbor is about the 40th-50th best player, and Denneny is maybe 60th-70th. It's a great duo with two very strong players, brought down ever so slightly by a worse RW. The thing, though, is that Denneny and Nighbor had proven real life success in multiple years, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs. And, despite what mark says, I think that all three are capable puck carriers for an ATD first line (Balderis less so). Don't underestimate Denneny's playmaking.. the guy has a very strong playmaking record for a guy considered to be primarily a goalscorer. The only actual criticism I would have of that line is the lack of goal scoring, overall. However, I'm not entirely informed on Balderis, so that may not be true.

Denneny is no 60-70 player.

 

[Dreakmur]

THE biggest factor, for me, if I was voting, is that these guys had success in the playoffs.. and not just some small amount of it, but these guys, together, led FIVE cup winners in playoff points. That is HUGE. What other duo in hockey history, outside of the elite of the elite, have ever done that?

I agree that proven chemistry is nice, but you are over-stating their success.

They were the best offensive players on a stacked team. Their offense wasn't what drove the team's success. It was important, but it was secondary to the team's dominant defensive style.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Biggest Steal of the draft Helmut Balderis
Biggest Reach of the draft Punch Broadbent
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft Either you love them or not, getting Claude Lemieux for the Sedin Twins was a very smart move.
Biggest blunder selection of the draft Don't know, The Leafs body of work at defence?
A Player finally getting respect in the draft Milan Novy / Hopefully Ivan Hlinka
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft Vladimir Konstantinov (230). Perfect spot for him.
A player you've discovered in this draft I didn't knew who Jaroslav Jirik was before the draft
Most underrated player taken I'll hit on the nail again, but Ivan Hlinka on a 4th line = underrated
Most overrated player taken We say him draft after draft, but Clark Gillies. Hopefully some day we'll see him a GOOD 25%.
Favourite line of the draft Bobby Hull-Max Bentley-Cam Neely. Would be so exciting to watch! Not sure about how well they would mesh together.
Best assembled line of the draft ''Busher'' Jackson - Milt Schmidt - Gordie Drillon. Bargain basement 1st liner on both side, with a tremendous 2-way centre to cover their flaws and strong enough to wrok with them offensively.
Worst assembled line of the draft Vsevolod Bobrov-Bill Cowley-Bobby Bauer
Favourite pairing of defensemen emile "butch" BOUCHARD (A) - #19 larry ROBINSON (A)
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen Carl Brewer-Nikolai Sologubov
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals Kimberley Dynamiters, love the team concept
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals Philadelphia Flyers, I would have a hrd time containing the offence. Hasek would need to pull miracles in a few of these games!
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft

---

Best selection: You cannot vote for players you own
1st round: Mark Messier (28)
2nd round: Bernard Geoffrion (64)
3rd round: Andy Bathgate (74)
4th round: Nels Stewart (118)
5th round: ---
6th round: Joe Thornton (189)
7th round: Evgeni Malkin
8th round: Vladimir Krutov
9th round: Cecil Dillon
10th round: Helmut Balderis
11th round: ---
12nd round: Neil Colville
13th round: Ivan Hlinka
14th round: Vladimir Vikulov
15th round: Adam Graves
16th round: Pat Verbeek
17th round: Rogatien Vachon
18th round: Gaye Stewart
19th round: Dick Irvin Sr.
20th round: Cully Wilson
21st round: ---
22nd round: Clint Smith
23th round: Lorne Carr
24th round: Jack Marks
25th round: Mush March

'Worst' Selection
1st round: Bryan Trottier (15) - Not a bad pick, just the less good!
2nd round: Valeri Kharlamov (39)
3rd round: Guy Lapointe (68)
4th round: Yvan Cournoyer (101)
5th round: Punch Broadbent (143) / Clark Gillies (158)
6th round: Red Horner (186)
7th round: Brad McCrimmon
8th round: Sergei Gonchar
9th round: ---
10th round: Bert Corbeau
11th round: Vsevolod Bobrov
12nd round: Bob Johnson
13th round: Rob Ramage
14th round: Ed Van Impe
15th round: ---
16th round: Bill Barilko
17th round: Tomas Holmstrom
18th round: ---
19th round: George Owen
20th round: Ray Ferraro
21st round: ---
22nd round: ---
23th round: ---
24th round: ---
25th round: Milan Lucic


Also, feel free to add any other comments or reflections about your experience/team this year. - Hopefully the constant flame wars between posters will stop next draft. It was worst than usual, and stray away from discussion.

 

[Elvis P]

... Best selection:
... 12nd round: Neil Colville ...

... Hopefully the constant flame wars between posters will stop next draft. It was worst than usual, and strayed away from the discussion. ...

Agreed. A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Bob Armstrong