ATD 2012 Lineup Assassination Thread - Sam Pollock Division

[Johnny Engine]

This is the ATD 2012 Roster thread! Post your 25-man lineup when they're completed, including spares, coach(es), special teams and anything else! Link to bios when possible! Be kind of a jerk, but not excessively so!

My team is coming soon.

Happy assassination, ATD, and happy 1000th post to Johnny Engine, me!

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

Sam Pollock Division

DoMakc - HC Donbass
tony d - Baltimore Blades
EagleBelfour & DaveG - Les Nordiques de Québec
Johnny Engine - Yekaterinburg Automobilist

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

4). At the conclusion of the draft, there will be a 10 day period for lineup assassinations. Assassinations will be divided by division.

Every division should have its own thread. Please either change the title of this thread to include your division name, or start a new one and I can close this one. Thanks. I'd like to think we didn't have that excruciatingly long rules discussion before the draft for nothing.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Yekaterinburg Automobilist

Coach: Bob Johnson
Captain: Joe Sakic
Assistants: Pierre Pilote, Trevor Linden

Jack Adams - Joe Sakic - Ace Bailey
Anatoly Firsov - Mike Modano - Trevor Linden
Dick Duff - Joel Otto - Johnny Peirson
Al Secord - Doug Weight - Corey Perry

Pierre Pilote - Si Griffis
Eduard Ivanov - Sylvio Mantha
Steve Duchesne - Joe Hall

Clint Benedict
Henrik Lundqvist

Spares:
Tom Anderson
Yevgeny Babich
Ray Ferraro
Dmitri Yushkevich

Powerplay
Pierre Pilote - Anatoly Firsov - Jack Adams - Joe Sakic - Steve Duchesne
Sylvio Mantha - Mike Modano - Corey Perry - Ace Bailey - Doug Weight

Penalty Kill
Joel Otto - Ace Bailey - Sylvio Mantha - Joe Hall
Joe Sakic - Trevor Linden - Pierre Pilote - Si Griffis

This team is built for speed, puck movement, and relentless two-way play.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Every division should have its own thread. Please either change the title of this thread to include your division name, or start a new one and I can close this one. Thanks. I'd like to think we didn't have that excruciatingly long rules discussion before the draft for nothing.

Can you edit this thread to reflect this?
This the last time I trust a Dinosaur on the internet to influence my behaviour. Dammit, Velociraptor!

Edit - didn't fully read your post. I will go ahead and do this. I had some dumb idea in my head that I couldn't edit thread titles.
Edit 2 - I have no idea how to do that! Can you?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Can you edit this thread to reflect this?
This the last time I trust a Dinosaur on the internet to influence my behaviour. Dammit, Velociraptor!

Edit - didn't fully read your post. I will go ahead and do this. I had some dumb idea in my head that I couldn't edit thread titles.
Edit 2 - I have no idea how to do that! Can you?

After clicking on "edit," there's a button that says "go advanced." Then you should be able to edit the title. Anyway, I just did it.

Enjoy getting ripped apart.

 

[Johnny Engine]

After clicking on "edit," there's a button that says "go advanced." Then you should be able to edit the title. Anyway, I just did it.

Enjoy getting ripped apart.

Thanks!

 

[Pominville Knows]

This is interesting and very useful too see for me as a rookie.

 

[Johnny Engine]

This is interesting and very useful too see for me as a rookie.

And hey, you don't have to just watch either! Any opinion's a good one when you explain it.

 

[VanIslander]

Team Review: Automobilist on a Wing and a Prayer

The lines may have been built to rock and roll but it seems more likely to be rocky, with Badger Bob needing to roll four lines. Is it a great day for hockey in Yekaterinburg?

Automobilist seems to lack offensive firepower among top-6 forward wingers. Firsov could be a first liner but is a bit of a question mark as he played just prior to Soviet dominance, so it's not clear if he'd be a star against the very best players in the world of his era, which means, it's not known if he's a first liner, a top-6 forward or merely a secondary scorer in an all-time context. Still, having Firsov as Sakic's winger could boost that top line's scoring potential. In fact, a Firsov-Sakic-Perry first line might be needed when trailing in games.

The centers are strong and smart positionally and won't be dominated anywhere up the middle of the ice. A lot of pucks lost by the wingers will be recovered by Sakic, Modano and Otto in open ice rushes against.

Ivanov might be third pairing material (as another pre-70s Soviet), and Bad Joe Hall is worthy of more ice time, as he was successful physically against the best of his era over several years. It was wise to draft Yushkevich and Anderson as 7th and 8th defensemen as they bring extra defending and scoring, respectively.

Below is suggested a more traditional alignment of top-6 and bottom-6 roles, with an older version of Modano centering a two-way line that can go against the opposition's best, with Weight's passing on an offensive-oriented line. The third line could see as much ice time as the second line in games where Yekaterinburg leads early, like when Sakic scores or Weight sets someone up.

Anatoly Firsov - Joe Sakic - Corey Perry
Al Secord - Doug Weight - Ace Bailey
Jack Adams - Mike Modano - Trevor Linden
Dick Duff - Joel Otto - Johnny Peirson

Pierre Pilote - Sylvio Mantha
Si Griffis - Bad Joe Hall
Steve Duchesne - Dmitri Yushkevich

Clint Benedict
Henrik Lundqvist

Spares:

Tom Anderson
Eduard Ivanov
Yevgeny Babich
Ray Ferraro​

The powerplay might be important for this squad as there are plenty of scrappy forwards willing to go to the net and at least screen the netminder, not to mention their edgy play that will draw penalties. However, the penalty kill lacks shutdown renowned forwards and that blueline needs Yushkevich in the starting line-up, or worst as a dressed seventh dman (sit a fourth line winger), for his defensive skill.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Team Review: Automobilist on a Wing and a Prayer

The lines may have been built to rock and roll but it seems more likely to be rocky, with Badger Bob needing to roll four lines. Is it a great day for hockey in Yekaterinburg?

Automobilist seems to lack offensive firepower among top-6 forward wingers. Firsov could be a first liner but is a bit of a question mark as he played just prior to Soviet dominance, so it's not clear if he'd be a star against the very best players in the world of his era, which means, it's not known if he's a first liner, a top-6 forward or merely a secondary scorer in an all-time context. Still, having Firsov as Sakic's winger could boost that top line's scoring potential. In fact, a Firsov-Sakic-Perry first line might be needed when trailing in games.

The centers are strong and smart positionally and won't be dominated anywhere up the middle of the ice. A lot of pucks lost by the wingers will be recovered by Sakic, Modano and Otto in open ice rushes against.

Ivanov might be third pairing material (as another pre-70s Soviet), and Bad Joe Hall is worthy of more ice time, as he was successful physically against the best of his era over several years. It was wise to draft Yushkevich and Anderson as 7th and 8th defensemen as they bring extra defending and scoring, respectively.

Below is suggested a more traditional alignment of top-6 and bottom-6 roles, with an older version of Modano centering a two-way line that can go against the opposition's best, with Weight's passing on an offensive-oriented line. The third line could see as much ice time as the second line in games where Yekaterinburg leads early, like when Sakic scores or Weight sets someone up.

Anatoly Firsov - Joe Sakic - Corey Perry
Al Secord - Doug Weight - Ace Bailey
Jack Adams - Mike Modano - Trevor Linden
Dick Duff - Joel Otto - Johnny Peirson

Pierre Pilote - Sylvio Mantha
Si Griffis - Bad Joe Hall
Steve Duchesne - Dmitri Yushkevich

Clint Benedict
Henrik Lundqvist

Spares:

Tom Anderson
Eduard Ivanov
Yevgeny Babich
Ray Ferraro​

The powerplay might be important for this squad as there are plenty of scrappy forwards willing to go to the net and at least screen the netminder, not to mention their edgy play that will draw penalties. However, the penalty kill lacks shutdown renowned forwards and that blueline needs Yushkevich in the starting line-up, or worst as a dressed seventh dman (sit a fourth line winger), for his defensive skill.

A few things:

- I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but I think you're misplacing Firsov, timeline-wise. he was very much in the picture as a Soviet star by 1972, but elected not to join that team. His competition in Russia itself, at the very least, is proven.
- Ivanov vs Yushkevich might be a debate worth having. We'll get to that.
- My original lineup serves to use my best players most, in alignments that are favour their strengths. There are a few late-drafted guys I intend to use as role players who'll end up playing tons of minutes in your alignment.

Looking back at my defense, my configuration has Pilote playing 25 minutes, Mantha 23 minutes, Griffis 20 minutes, Duchesne 18 minutes, Hall 17 minutes and Ivanov 15.
Duchesne's (much easier) PP minutes cause the only unexpected result there, and there's a 3 minute hole in the usual 120 caused by Doug Weight's PP2 role. Also, my 2nd and 3rd pairings pair RHSs with LHSs, while Pilote and Griffis are both RHSs - mirrored by Pilote's real life partner, Vasko, who was a speedy giant just like Griffis.

Also, Adams - Sakic - Bailey is a matchup line, and provides Sakic with a big-bodied plumber and a guy who can stickhandle well enough to get Sakic open for wrist shots. I believe this line is better defensively than the one you have centered around Modano, and should be able to face any first line.

Lastly, my wings are fine, but they'd be a lot better if I didn't go for a well above average set of defensemen, centers, and the best goalie in the division. I'll take that.

 

[BubbaBoot]

A few things:

- I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but I think you're misplacing Firsov, timeline-wise. he was very much in the picture as a Soviet star by 1972, but elected not to join that team. His competition in Russia itself, at the very least, is proven.
- Ivanov vs Yushkevich might be a debate worth having. We'll get to that.
- My original lineup serves to use my best players most, in alignments that are favour their strengths. There are a few late-drafted guys I intend to use as role players who'll end up playing tons of minutes in your alignment.

Looking back at my defense, my configuration has Pilote playing 25 minutes, Mantha 23 minutes, Griffis 20 minutes, Duchesne 18 minutes, Hall 17 minutes and Ivanov 15.
Duchesne's (much easier) PP minutes cause the only unexpected result there, and there's a 3 minute hole in the usual 120 caused by Doug Weight's PP2 role. Also, my 2nd and 3rd pairings pair RHSs with LHSs, while Pilote and Griffis are both RHSs - mirrored by Pilote's real life partner, Vasko, who was a speedy giant just like Griffis.

Also, Adams - Sakic - Bailey is a matchup line, and provides Sakic with a big-bodied plumber and a guy who can stickhandle well enough to get Sakic open for wrist shots. I believe this line is better defensively than the one you have centered around Modano, and should be able to face any first line.

Lastly, my wings are fine, but they'd be a lot better if I didn't go for a well above average set of defensemen, centers, and the best goalie in the division. I'll take that.

Either or....I'm just curious why you have Ivanov pegged in the 2nd pairing but getting the least minutes and no special teams play?

 

[Dreakmur]

Team Review: Automobilist on a Wing and a Prayer

The lines may have been built to rock and roll but it seems more likely to be rocky, with Badger Bob needing to roll four lines. Is it a great day for hockey in Yekaterinburg?

Automobilist seems to lack offensive firepower among top-6 forward wingers. Firsov could be a first liner but is a bit of a question mark as he played just prior to Soviet dominance, so it's not clear if he'd be a star against the very best players in the world of his era, which means, it's not known if he's a first liner, a top-6 forward or merely a secondary scorer in an all-time context. Still, having Firsov as Sakic's winger could boost that top line's scoring potential. In fact, a Firsov-Sakic-Perry first line might be needed when trailing in games.

The centers are strong and smart positionally and won't be dominated anywhere up the middle of the ice. A lot of pucks lost by the wingers will be recovered by Sakic, Modano and Otto in open ice rushes against.

Ivanov might be third pairing material (as another pre-70s Soviet), and Bad Joe Hall is worthy of more ice time, as he was successful physically against the best of his era over several years. It was wise to draft Yushkevich and Anderson as 7th and 8th defensemen as they bring extra defending and scoring, respectively.

Below is suggested a more traditional alignment of top-6 and bottom-6 roles, with an older version of Modano centering a two-way line that can go against the opposition's best, with Weight's passing on an offensive-oriented line. The third line could see as much ice time as the second line in games where Yekaterinburg leads early, like when Sakic scores or Weight sets someone up.

Anatoly Firsov - Joe Sakic - Corey Perry
Al Secord - Doug Weight - Ace Bailey
Jack Adams - Mike Modano - Trevor Linden
Dick Duff - Joel Otto - Johnny Peirson

Pierre Pilote - Sylvio Mantha
Si Griffis - Bad Joe Hall
Steve Duchesne - Dmitri Yushkevich

Clint Benedict
Henrik Lundqvist

Spares:

Tom Anderson
Eduard Ivanov
Yevgeny Babich
Ray Ferraro​

The powerplay might be important for this squad as there are plenty of scrappy forwards willing to go to the net and at least screen the netminder, not to mention their edgy play that will draw penalties. However, the penalty kill lacks shutdown renowned forwards and that blueline needs Yushkevich in the starting line-up, or worst as a dressed seventh dman (sit a fourth line winger), for his defensive skill.

I think that is the correct blueline arrangement, but the forwards are way off IMO. I'm not sure there's a really good way to put them together, but here's how I would approach it.

Firsov and Sakic have to play together on the 1st line. There is no RW who can really fit with them, so whoever goes there will drag the line down.

I would use Bailey, Modano, and Pierson as a line to match against other top lines.

Weight needs a scorer, so that is where Jack Adams should go.

 

[Hobnobs]

I think that is the correct blueline arrangement, but the forwards are way off IMO. I'm not sure there's a really good way to put them together, but here's how I would approach it.

Firsov and Sakic have to play together on the 1st line. There is no RW who can really fit with them, so whoever goes there will drag the line down.

I would use Bailey, Modano, and Pierson as a line to match against other top lines.

Weight needs a scorer, so that is where Jack Adams should go.

I think the wingers on this team are absolutely terrible in comparison with the centers. The defense is great and nobody can fault the goalies.

 

[Sturminator]

The defense is great and nobody can fault the goalies.

The defense looks pretty average, actually.

 

[Velociraptor]

Yekaterinburg Automobilist

Bob Johnson is a great coach, no problems here.

Top-6 definitely lacks a bit of firepower offensively, but there are some good pieces. Sakic is a good #1 centre, while Modano is a respectable #2. Adams's physical presence and offensive ability on one wing is complementary, and Ace Bailey's career was incredibly short but had a good peak. He doesn't seem to be out of place but it would probably rank as a below average first line. Firsov is a nice piece next to Modano, being your best winger a lot depends on Modano being able to dish him the puck against oppositions shutdown lines and defensive pairings. As a Canucks fan I love Trevor Linden and have the utmost respect for him, but I think he's better cut out for a 3rd/4th line because his ES scoring resume is rather underwhelming. He does have intangibles and serves as more of a glue guy on the line, but I'm not sure what to think of him on an ATD 2nd line. Big fan of the third line, Otto may have extremely little offensive upside, but he's a phenomenal shutdown centre. Peirson and Duff were great two-way checkers, and this makes for an excellent matching line against teams' top lines. Fourth line is also a nicely assembled unit, will not see much time at ES, but they should definitely be able to chip in a few goals. Secord and Perry, two tough goal-scorers who don't mind using their body. Weight has great offense for a fourth-line centre. They won't be too useful, but they will play well when relied upon.

The top-4 is well assembled with a legitimate, albeit not elite #1. A decent #2, and two pretty good #3's. The bottom pairing is more or less underwhelming, but has a capable puck-mover and a great positional player in Duchesne and Yushkevich respectively.

Benedict is a great starter at this level, and as long as the top-4 plays responsible defensive hockey, he won't have to stand on his head to keep his team in the game. Lundqvist probably won't see a whole lot of time but is a decent back-up goaltender.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Either or....I'm just curious why you have Ivanov pegged in the 2nd pairing but getting the least minutes and no special teams play?

Because aggressiveness and a LHS was what I wanted on that pairing, and he isn't better for special teams than the rest of my defensemen. That leaves him about a third of even strength minutes, which come out to be the least.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I like Sakic / Modano / Otto / Weight as centermen -- that is some real depth down the middle.

The wingers you've matched them up with though are much less stellar.

I was criticized last year for having Adams as a second line LW and here you have him slotted in as a 1st liner. I tend to agree with the others that you want to get Sakic and Firsov together.

Linden, as much as I like and respect the guy as a gritty determined player, doesn't belong on a second line here imo. Personally I think he would look rather intimidating beside Otto on a third line, but then who goes into the second spot?

Also I think Modano is overrated as a defensive player here on the boards and I don't think you should move him to the third line. He is a much more balanced offensive player than Weight and capable of creating things on his own -- and he is going to have to with these wingers. Leave Weight the scraps on the fourth line as you have him -- his playmaking will make whatever he is left a little better than it would have been.

The defense is so-so outside of Pilote who is really great.

Goaltending obviously isn't an issue.

 

[VanIslander]

I think Modano is overrated as a defensive player here on the boards and I don't think you should move him to the third line.

Here on the boards? The view is widespread and I myself have concurred.

The Modano I watched with Lehtinen on his wing was a totally different version than the Modano I saw in his early days. People talk about how Yzerman's game changed, became more responsible defensively, well, Modano did likewise, with great chemitry with Jere. Many, many others have agreed with what I witnessed over the years. Here's a couple of several I could cite (not from these boards - you imply it's a HfBoards thing, the Modano defensive love, but it's much wider in scope):

His offense and his speed will always be what Modano is known for, but it's his selflessness and his team-first attitude are what I'll remember most. Mike Modano was drafted by the Minnesota North Stars for his incredible offensive ability, yet after the team moved to Dallas and hired Ken Hitchcock as coach the franchise shifted philosophies. The Stars became a defensive team, and asked Modano to take on a more defensive-minded approach. Not only did he embrace the new role but he became perhaps the best two-way player in the NHL.
Later in his career, he was asked to become a checking line center as his offensive skills and speed declined and fully embraced that role as well.

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2011/9/21/2440814/a-dallas-stars-farewell-memories-of-mike-modano

Part of the heat that has been place on Modano to lead the team offensively this season comes from his history of playing defense so well. Modano came close to winning the Selke Trophy in 1997, finishing fourth, and is nearly as respected for his defensive work as Lehtinen.

Despite missing 30 games due to injury, Modano still finished second in the NHL with five shorthanded goals in 1998. Hitchcock thinks the Stars have enough overall defensive depth that Modano can produce a 50-goal season and still concentrate on the defensive aspects. If the definiton of the Selke Trophy tilts again toward Hitchcock's interpretation of the winner as the league's most complete player," then Modano should be a favorite.

"The Selke Trophy, to me, should be one of his goals," Hitchcock said.

"Mike could win it," Jarvis agreed. "Probably because of his offensive game, people don't think of him in a Selke-type role. But he's made a commitment to that aspect of the game and has done very well at it."

http://www.oocities.org/yelcat2/jere/articles/02.html

I am not claiming he's a shutdown center, but in an all-time context he's a quality third liner or decent enough second liner; Weight, on the other hand, doesn't bring the sort of grit and physicality or defensive responsibility that NHL GMs like Lowe in Edmonton and Quinn in Anaheim have said before are needed to see ice time as a bottom-6 forward; offensive forwards, especially passers, have to produce enough to make the top-6 or else not get ice time, called-up, re-signed, etc.

 

[Sturminator]

Top-6 definitely lacks a bit of firepower offensively, but there are some good pieces. Sakic is a good #1 centre, while Modano is a respectable #2.

Mike Modano is more than a respectable #2 center; he's a very good one.

The top-4 is well assembled with a legitimate, albeit not elite #1. A decent #2, and two pretty good #3's.

You're setting a low threshhold for what constitutes a "pretty good" #3 defenseman, though I imagine this is one of those polite pretty goods which actually means "mediocre", which is what both Griffis and Hall are in that role.

 

[Sturminator]

Here on the boards? The view is widespread and I myself have concurred.

I saw lots of Modano in his Dallas years, and he was a very strong two-way player. I don't care what kind of a player he was in Minnesota - tons of guys (like Bryan Trottier) took a while to develop their defensive games. Outside of Nighbor, Clarke and Smith (if he ever gets to play center), I doubt there are any scoringline centers in the draft who were better defensively.

 

[Velociraptor]

Mike Modano is more than a respectable #2 center; he's a very good one.



You're setting a low threshhold for what constitutes a "pretty good" #3 defenseman, though I imagine this is one of those polite pretty goods which actually means "mediocre", which is what both Griffis and Hall are in that role.

Right on both parts, I'm hungover so my word choice wasn't exactly comprehensive

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I saw lots of Modano in his Dallas years, and he was a very strong two-way player. I don't care what kind of a player he was in Minnesota - tons of guys (like Bryan Trottier) took a while to develop their defensive games. Outside of Nighbor, Clarke and Smith (if he ever gets to play center), I doubt there are any scoringline centers in the draft who were better defensively.

Gilmour and Fedorov?

 

[Sturminator]

Gilmour and Fedorov?

At their best, sure, but how often and for how long were they at their best? Fedorov's effort level was very uneven, and Gilmour's peak as a superstar was quite short.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

At their best, sure, but how often and for how long were they at their best? Fedorov's effort level was very uneven, and Gilmour's peak as a superstar was quite short.

I don't think Gilmour's defensive peak was short at all. If anything it was his time as an elite offensive force that was short. Same probably goes for Fedorov in terms of inconsistency...I think he was always good defensively, but pick and chose when to turn it up offensively.