ATD 2011 Draft Thread VIII

[seventieslord]

...yeah, I wasn't talking about Kesler.

...and if I hadn't traded last night's pick, Roloston would have been the guy I took.

...and Robyn Regehr >> Normand Rochefort. That is all.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Regehr>>Willie Mitchell as well, FWIW.

 

[jarek]

...yeah, I wasn't talking about Kesler.

...and if I hadn't traded last night's pick, Roloston would have been the guy I took.

...and Robyn Regehr >> Normand Rochefort. That is all.

You can't conclusively prove it.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

...yeah, I wasn't talking about Kesler.

...and if I hadn't traded last night's pick, Roloston would have been the guy I took.

...and Robyn Regehr >> Normand Rochefort. That is all.

Rolston was very good pick. Can play every forward position, excellent pker, not good enough to regularly get pp time at this level, but can play the point of the pp in case of injuries. The only downside to rolston on your 4th line is that he's kind of soft. He was definitely near the top of my list.

As for the defensemen, who cares when there are better guys left?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

With the 709th pick, the Chicago Steelers select Jonathan Toews, C

Shoots: Left
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 210lbs
Born: 04/29/1988

NHL Regular Season: 293GP-113G-152A-265Pts

27th in NHL is scoring since entering the league
15th in NHL scoring last 2 seasons (including 2010-11)

Playoffs:39GP-14G-28A-42Pts
09-10: 3rd on Team
10-11: 1st on Team (2nd Overall)
Stanley Cup 2010
Conn Smythe 2010

Selke Voting: 4th, 17th (projected another top 10 finish this year)

Faceoffs
2007-08: 593/1117=53.09%
2008-09: 704/1287=54.70%
2009-10: 801/1397=57.34%
2010-11: 815/1427=57.11%
TOTAL: 2913/5228=55.72%

2010 Olympics
Gold Medal
7GP-1G-7A-8Pts
Named to Tournament All-Star Team
Named Top Forward of Tournament

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Swamp Devils select an NHL-era Hall of Fame center who is somehow still available:

Clint Smith, C/LW

Smith patterned his game after the great Frank Boucher, and won the Lady Byng award twice (1939, 1944) back when it was a prestigious award that went to a player who played clean, competitive hockey.

He was a member of the great 1940 Rangers Stanley Cup team and was inducted into the HHOF as a player in 1991.

Points finishes: 3rd, 4th, 5th*, 5th*, 9th
Goals finishes: 4th, 5th, 10th*
Assist finishes: 1st*, 6th*, 6th, 6th

*War year

Smith played during a weak era, but he was one of the best offensive players during this era. Over his 9 year peak (37-38 to 45-46), Smith was 3rd in total points behind only Bill Cowley and Toe Blake, and slightly ahead of Syd Howe. This time period cuts off Howe's best year and includes one season when he was clearly past his prime, but it does include Howe's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best season. (It also ignores that Howe spent an unknown amount of time as a defenseman).

 

[Velociraptor]

Good pick with Toews, I'm liking the jumps from some of the modern-era guys. (Whitney, Kesler, Toews, Arnott) Kesler and Toews have definitely become elite hockey players, and deserve a place in a 40-team ATD.


693. matsblue13 - Niagara City Blues - SKIPPED
694. seventieslord - Regina Pats - Reg Fleming, LW/D (traded to Inglewood)
695. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs - Thomas Vanek, LW
696. Velociraptor - Cleveland Barons - Bill Goldsworthy, RW
697. tony d & DaveG - Garnish Phantoms - Charley "Rabbit" McVeigh, LW
698. markrander87 - Cincinnati Fireworks - Mathieu Schneider, D
699. DoMakc - Detroit Red Wings - Andy Moog, G
700. Thatguy17 & SaltyStyle7 - Vancouver Velocity - SKIPPED
701. Rick Middleton & Sturminator - Gwinnett Gladiators - Brian Rolston, LW
702. arrbez & vecens24 - Inglewood Jacks - Robyn Regehr, D
703. MadArcand - Hartford Whalers - Peter Laviolette, Coach
704. Mr Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Joel Quenneville, Coach
705. Mr Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Ryan Kesler, C
706. BraveCanadian - Guelph Platers - Jason Arnott, C
707. Nighthawks - New Haven Nighthawks - SKIPPED
708. advantage2006 - Montreal AAA HC - SKIPPED
709. Reds4Life & Johnny D - Chicago Steelers - Jonathan Toews, C
710. TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils - Clint Smith, C/LW
711. Nalyd Psycho - Minnesota Fighting Saints - ON THE CLOCK UNTIL 9:03 PM ET
712. BiLLY_ShOE1721 - Philadelphia Firebirds -
713. Dreakmur - McGuire’s Monsters -
714. nik jr - Jokerit Helsinki -
715. papershoes - Kenora Thistles -
716. Dwight - Battle Creek Battallion
717. EagleBelfour - Detroit Falcons

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

How on earth is toews a good pick? This is the ALL TIME draft, not the "last calendar year" draft.

 

[hfboardsuser]

How on earth is toews a good pick? This is the ALL TIME draft, not the "last calendar year" draft.

Eh, he does have one of the greatest one calendar year peaks ever- Stanley Cup, Conn Smythe and Olympic gold, Olympic MVP. He's also one of the youngest captains in history.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Can't believe Toews got picked. Kesler at least has the Selke votes(and his good chance of winning this year), but has 1.75 significant offensive seasons. If either of these guys deserves to be picked, there's another guy that undoubtedly should be making his ATD debut, and if you ask me, it should be ahead of both of these two.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

How on earth is toews a good pick? This is the ALL TIME draft, not the "last calendar year" draft.

27th in NHL scoring over a 4 year period, elevated level of play in the playoffs, 2 years of considerable Selke votes (making assumptions about this year), elite faceoff ability over a 4 year period, and proved he can play at a higher level in the Olympics seemed good enough for a 4th line role to us.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Eh, he does have one of the greatest one calendar year peaks ever- Stanley Cup, Conn Smythe and Olympic gold, Olympic MVP. He's also one of the youngest captains in history.

He's basically fleming mackell if mackell had a 2 year career.

Edit - mackell was a much more prolific penalty killer though.

 

[Velociraptor]

How on earth is toews a good pick? This is the ALL TIME draft, not the "last calendar year" draft.

Why not? He's only 22 and he already has a flattering résumé. He's beginning to shake any doubt of regular season success as he's over a PPG with 74 points in 71 games. He's also clutch when it counts (post-season won Conne Smythe, Olympics). Also a great leader, I think he's comparable to Yzerman. He can only go up from here.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Would you even consider drafting a player from the 80s who retired at 22?

 

[Hedberg]

Why not? He's only 22 and he already has a flattering résumé.

His age is irrelevant to this.

He's beginning to shake any doubt of regular season success as he's over a PPG with 74 points in 71 games.

One PPG season isn't that special

He's also clutch when it counts (post-season won Conne Smythe, Olympics).

The Conn Smythe and Olympics are what he has going for him and what makes him an acceptable pick in the draft, but I think it's too high.

Also a great leader, I think he's comparable to Yzerman.

Perhaps more like he has the potential to be like Yzerman. He's not there yet.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

27th in NHL scoring over a 4 year period, elevated level of play in the playoffs, 2 years of considerable Selke votes (making assumptions about this year), elite faceoff ability over a 4 year period, and proved he can play at a higher level in the Olympics seemed good enough for a 4th line role to us.

You failed to mention only 19 of those guys ahead of him have been selected. Toews has:

8th All Star at C(one 3rd place vote, irrelevant)
8th All Star at C(again, one 3rd place vote, irrelevant)
4th Selke

That's it. Here's what a similar undrafted has:

edit

Here's what Kesler has:

3rd Selke
11th Selke
2nd Selke

 

[Velociraptor]

His age is irrelevant to this.

Why? He has so much time to expand on what he's already accomplished.

One PPG season isn't that special

It's erasing any doubt that he isn't a regular season performer, I'd say it's the first of many.

The Conn Smythe and Olympics are what he has going for him and what makes him an acceptable pick in the draft, but I think it's too high.

Maybe a bit too high yes, if he was who I was targeting, I think I'd wait until mid-800's.

Perhaps more like he has the potential to be like Yzerman. He's not there yet.

This is what I had tried to say, rather.

My answers in bold.

Would you even consider drafting a player from the 80s who retired at 22?

Not this high, but if he had a trophy case and achievement list as prestigious as Toews in the four seasons he's played, then yes I'd consider drafting him if he met the requirements of an all-time great hockey player. (Sure Toews isn't among elite company yet, but he's off to a phenomenal start, and has many more years ahead of him barring a career-ending injury)

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

You failed to mention only 19 of those guys ahead of him have been selected.

And I sure most of them have played a lot longer than toews.

 

[VanIslander]

Anyone who thinks Toews is a good pick, please re-think or else give the MLD a pass. We don't need another Marek Svatos or Drew Doughty pick. If Toews suffered a career ending injury tomorrow, he would make nobody's top-1000 list fifty years from now (of greats up until 2011 in hockey history). That is the litmus test.

113 career goals? 152 career assists?
Not even top-25 in scoring since entered the league UNDER 4 YEARS AGO!
15th in scoring the last two seasons (really? you think a two-year 15th in scoring stat is good in anyway?)
42 playoff points. There are much better career playoff numbers available.

There are three things on Toews all-time great resume:

1. He had one great playoffs, as captain of a cup team, honoured with the Conn Smythe, plus one other playoffs of some minor footnote.
2. He was once 4th in Selke voting (citing 17th in voting is insignificant) and is above average at face-offs.
3. He had one great international tourney, a top forward at an Olympics.

There are many better picks available, especially at center ice. Don't Toews us bro'! Sit that guy down on your BENCH as a greenhorn for the practice squad and half-decent sub.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

For the purposes of the ATD, toews' career ends today. This is a draft about history.

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

Swamp Devils select an NHL-era Hall of Fame center who is somehow still available:

Clint Smith, C/LW

Smith patterned his game after the great Frank Boucher, and won the Lady Byng award twice (1939, 1944) back when it was a prestigious award that went to a player who played clean, competitive hockey.

He was a member of the great 1940 Rangers Stanley Cup team and was inducted into the HHOF as a player in 1991.

Points finishes: 3rd, 4th, 5th*, 5th*, 9th
Goals finishes: 4th, 5th, 10th*
Assist finishes: 1st*, 6th*, 6th, 6th

*War year

Smith played during a weak era, but he was one of the best offensive players during this era. Over his 9 year peak (37-38 to 45-46), Smith was 3rd in total points behind only Bill Cowley and Toe Blake, and slightly ahead of Syd Howe. This time period cuts off Howe's best year and includes one season when he was clearly past his prime, but it does include Howe's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best season. (It also ignores that Howe spent an unknown amount of time as a defenseman).

What's the deal with him at left wing?

How on earth is toews a good pick? This is the ALL TIME draft, not the "last calendar year" draft.

One word: INTANGIBLES

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Anyone who thinks Toews is a good pick, please re-think or else give the MLD a pass. We don't need another Marek Svatos or Drew Doughty pick. If Toews suffered a career ending injury tomorrow, he would make nobody's top-1000 list fifty years from now (of greats up until 2011 in hockey history). That is the litmus test.

113 career goals? 152 career assists?
Not even top-25 in scoring since entered the league UNDER 4 YEARS AGO!
15th in scoring the last two seasons (really? you think a two-year 15th in scoring stat is good in anyway?)
42 playoff points. There are much better career playoff numbers available.

There are three things on Toews all-time great resume:

1. He had one great playoffs, as captain of a cup team, honoured with the Conn Smythe, plus one other playoffs of some minor footnote.
2. He was once 4th in Selke voting (citing 17th in voting is insignificant) and is above average at face-offs.
3. He had one great international tourney, a top forward at an Olympics.

There are many better picks available, especially at center ice. Don't Toews us bro'! Sit that guy down on your BENCH as a greenhorn for the practice squad and half-decent sub.

In defense of my Doughty pick(it was a dumb pick, I know), but he had the highest one year peak of anyone available at my pick.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Anyone who thinks Toews is a good pick, please re-think or else give the MLD a pass. We don't need another Marek Svatos or Drew Doughty pick. If Toews suffered a career ending injury tomorrow, he would make nobody's top-1000 list fifty years from now (of greats up until 2011 in hockey history). That is the litmus test.

Here's how I look at it: let's imagine Toews was John Smith, and had fifteen other "meh" seasons where he was no better than his worst to date (60ish points, 17th in Selke voting). Why is that player better than Toews today?

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select, 711th overall, Lorne Carr, rw

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Here's how I look at it: let's imagine Toews was John Smith, and had fifteen other "meh" seasons where he was no better than his worst to date (60ish points, 17th in Selke voting). Why is that player better than Toews today?

So basically, you make up 15 seasons for toews out of thin air?