ATD #11, Jim Robson Quarterfinals. Wacken Warriors (3) vs. Victoria Salmon Kings (6)

[EagleBelfour]

Wacken Warriors

Coach : Cecil Hart

Sid Smith - Joe Sakic - Andy Bathgate
Rick Martin - Reg Noble - Babe Dye
Hec Kilrea - Walt Tkaczuk - Eric Nesterenko
Ryan Walter - Metro Prystai - Gary Dornhoefer
Alexander Almetov

Bill Quackenbush - Ken Reardon
Moose Johnson - Jim Schoenfeld
Frantisek Tikal - Mark Tinordi
Jimmy Roberts, Battleship Leduc

Jacques Plante
Gerry McNeil

vs.

Victoria Salmon Kings

Coach: Lester Patrick

Brendan Shanahan - Max Bentley - Didier Pitre
Gary Roberts - Igor Larionov - Rod Gilbert
Pete Mahovlich - Cooney Weiland - Pat Verbeek
Marcel Bonin - Brent Sutter - Murray Balfour
Dubbie Bowie - Barney Stanley

King Clancy - Jack Stewart
Cy Wenworth - Paul Reinhart
Terry Harper - Brian Rafalski
Art Duncan

Martin Brodeur
Paddy Moran
​

Click to read more...

 

[seventieslord]

I guess I'll take it upon myself to be the one to comment on whatever series has gone the longest without a comment... in this case, this is the only series without one.

Forget 3rd vs. 6th. This one is dead even.

Victoria spent the whole draft taking players I wanted. Russell Bowie, Cooney Weiland, Brian Rafalski, Didier Pitre, coach lester patrick, pat verbeek.

Wacken, on the other hand, has two of my very favourite bottom-six forwards in Eric Nesterenko and Metro Prystai, and possibly the best 2nd line "glue guy" in the whole draft in Reg Noble.

Wacken has a second-tier coach and the very best goalie. Victoria has a top-tier coach and a 2nd-tier goalie. You could almost say the two offset eachother.

The defense corps are tough to choose between too. Victoria has Clancy, the best defenseman in the series by a long shot. But of the next four best, all of whom are very similar in value, three of them are on Wacken's roster (Reardon, Quackenbush, Johnson).

Start the debates, gentlemen. Or I won't know who to vote for.

 

[Jungosi]

First off , sorry that I couldn't post until now. The last few days have been very busy (Handball championchips, Sister returns from Australia....) But now to make voting easier for 70's (and I hope for everyone else ) here is my take :

Goaltending

Plante is at the very top of the first tier when it comes to goalies. Brodeur ranks high in the second tier. So there is an obvious advantage here for Wacken. Both goalies are able to steal games but whilst Plante has basicly a perfect playoff record even with lesser teams , Brodeur makes very costly mistakes from time to time which is a black mark on his usually fine postseason play.

Slight advantage Wacken

Offense

My offense is centered on the first two lines while yours is more spread out over the team. Both first lines are almost dead-even. Mine provides more high-end talent with Sakic and Bathgate but due to Smith it is somewhat evened out by Pitre and Shanahan. What gives me a slight advantage here is the fact that Joe Sakic belongs in a very exclusive group you might call : best playoff performers ever. My biggest advantage is this deparment however is my second line. While Roberts and Gilbert are fine scoring wingers , Dye and Martin are former goal-scoring champions. Larionov is a better than Noble of course but with the grit and chemistry he provides with Dye he puts this line above yours.
Your third line though evens out any potential advantage for me so I'd call it even.

Even

Defense

As seventieslord said , our defensive corps are very equal. Your first pairing is of course better than mine but my second pairing should be better than yours. Third pairing also also relatively similar. What gives me the edge here is the defensive provided by my forwards. My bottom-six is consists of fine defensive players while some might question Mahovlich's and Verbeek's defensive play. Your fourth line provides a huge amount of grit but while it's fine defensively it won't shut down anyone.

Slight Advantage Wacken

Maybe some more later. Not sure if I can get it done today.

 

[Sturminator]

Like nik's Lada teams, I seem to pretty consistently like Hedberg's Victoria franchise more than most voters. 70's, I disagree with you on Noble, at least insofar as he is playing center and not the left wing. I cringe when I see lines with two strong wings and a weaker center because the pivot is the most important position on any line. Dye is a spectacular goalscorer, but little else, and seems like a guy who needs top notch service to achieve his potential. I'm not sure Noble provides that.

I also think Rod Gilbert is maybe being a bit underrated here. I don't see him as inferior to Martin or Dye overall, although they all have different skillsets.

 

[seventieslord]

70's, I disagree with you on Noble, at least insofar as he is playing center and not the left wing. I cringe when I see lines with two strong wings and a weaker center because the pivot is the most important position on any line. Dye is a spectacular goalscorer, but little else, and seems like a guy who needs top notch service to achieve his potential. I'm not sure Noble provides that.

Fair points. I would prefer to have Noble on the wing too. I think it's important that Noble is the least-talented member of hisline and he is. Your point that the least-telented member of a line should not be the center is well-made. I think the former in this case might outweigh the latter.

Noble's a jack of all trades but his best asset is probably his playmaking skill. In my assists study, he came out with 9 top-15 assist seasons, exceeded by only 21 other players. He had five top-10 seasons, exceeded by just 48 players. He provided next to no offense once he switched to D, so he was among the top playmakers in practically every season in which he was a forward.

Of course comparing him to Ullman and Sakic doesn't work perfectly but look at him next to some contemporaries:

Player Top-2 Top-5 Top-10 Top-15 Top-20

Nighbor 2-5-7-8-11
Noble 0-2-5-9-10
Mackay 1-4-6-6-9
Oatman 1-3-5-8-9
Walker 1-2-3-6-9
Lalonde 2-3-3-6-8
Cleghorn 1-2-3-5-8
Keats 1-1-6-7-8
Fredrickson 1-5-6-6-7
Gerard 1-4-4-6-7
Crawford 0-0-4-5-7
Morris 1-5-6-6-6
Hay 0-2-5-5-6
Dunderdale 0-1-3-5-6

The lack of an elite, top-2 season is concerning but he's right in the mix for top-5s and top-10s, and one of the two most consistent for top-15 and top-20 seasons.

He's also not just a passer. It's not like putting Cowley next to Dye. Dye needs a defensive presence, workhorse, and board guy to not only get him the puck, but win the puck first. Noble does that.

 

[Hedberg]

Congratulations Jungosi and good luck in the next round

 

[Jungosi]

Thanks a lot Hedberg. I always thought that your teams were underappreciated in this drafts. I hope you'll get a better seed next time around.

 

[seventieslord]

The Wacken Warriors (3) vs. The Victoria Salmon Kings (6)

Game Results:

Wacken Warriors: 3 - Victoria Salmon Kings: 0
Wacken Warriors: 2 - Victoria Salmon Kings: 1 OT
Victoria Salmon Kings: 3 - Wacken Warriors: 1
Victoria Salmon Kings: 1 - Wacken Warriors: 2
Wacken Warriors: 3 - Victoria Salmon Kings: 4 2OT
Victoria Salmonn Kings: 1 - Wacken Warriors: 4

The Wacken Warriors (3) defeats The Victoria Salmon Kings (6) in 6 games.


Series Three Stars

1: Jacques Plante - Wacken Warriors
2: Joe Sakic - Wacken Warriors
3: King Clancy - Victoria Salmon Kings


Series Recap:

- Jacques Plante has been phenomenal all series long. He outplayed his opponent Martin Brodeur in five of the six games.

- Joe Sakic was by far the best offensive force in this series, scoring 5 goals and 2 game winners. However, the first line of Smith-Sakic-Bahgate didn't seems to click as much in the playoffs. Rumours as it that Andy Bathgate is playing through an injury, although unconfirmed.

- For the Salmon Kings, the duo of Clancy-Stewart was the best duo of defenseman all series long. The duo was able to contain Wacken's first line when they were paired against them. However, coach Patrick admitted after the series that the play of Wentworth and Harper had been disappointing.

- The unsung hero for the Salmon Kings in this series was definitely center Cooney Weiland. Scoring the game winning goal for the Salmon Kings in the fifth game who went into double overtime, he also was a force in the defensive zone. Perhaps the second most important forward for Victoria after Max Bentley.