ATD #10 Lineup Assassination Thread

[Rick Middleton]

You know the drill

Click to read more...

 

[Rick Middleton]

Team Iceland​

Anatoli Firsov - Syl Apps - Cecil "Babe" Dye
Charlie Simmer - Joe Nieuwendyk - Andy Bathgate
Dany Heatley - Bobby Smith - Pat Verbeek
XXX - Craig MacTavish - Kevin Dineen

Eddie Shore - Ebbie Goodfellow
Ed Van Impe - Sergei Zubov
Art Coulter - Dallas Smith

Georges Vezina
John Vanbiesbrouck

PP1
Simmer - Apps - Dye
Shore - Zubov

PP2
Firsov - Nieuwendyk - Bathgate
Goodfellow - Coulter

PK1
MacTavish - Verbeek
Shore - Van Impe

PK2
Bobby Smith - Dineen
Coulter - Dallas Smith

 

[VanIslander]

we've always waited until the end of the draft

there's seven and a half rounds to go

should we bother?

 

[seventieslord]

A little early, don'tcha think?

 

[Rick Middleton]

True, it is early, but we're getting to the point where most rosters are almost full. I have 4 spots left to fill, then my 3 backups.

 

[MXD]

More a tip than criticism.

Do something with your 2nd line.

It's a mess right now. Three shoot first guys, with Simmer being maybe the guy who would be more likely to pass the puck... The thing is, he might be the WORST passer of the three.

It could utimately be counterproductive, but I would suggest switching Dye and Bathgate. Apps was able to make a guy similar to Dye (somewhat...) work well during his career, and while there's a dropoff between Bathgate and Dye, at least, you would have a guy able to create something on your 2nd line.

 

[Rick Middleton]

More a tip than criticism.

Do something with your 2nd line.

It's a mess right now. Three shoot first guys, with Simmer being maybe the guy who would be more likely to pass the puck... The thing is, he might be the WORST passer of the three.

It could utimately be counterproductive, but I would suggest switching Dye and Bathgate. Apps was able to make a guy similar to Dye (somewhat...) work well during his career, and while there's a dropoff between Bathgate and Dye, at least, you would have a guy able to create something on your 2nd line.

Bathgate on the 2nd line is probably a good idea.

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

Coach: Tommy Gorman


#26 Brian Propp- #10 Alex Delvecchio- #9 Gordie Howe
#14 Brendan Shanahan- #11 Dubbie Bowie- #41 Theo Fleury
#17 Rod Brind'Amour- #7 Cooney Weiland- #23 Bobby Nystrom
#10 John Sorrell- #20 Dave Poulin- #18 Marcel Bonin
#4 Scott Stevens-#22 Flash Hollett
#2 Al MacInnis-#5 Mike Ramsey
#15 Mattias Nostrom-#44 Ron Greschner
#1 Cecil 'Tiny' Thompson
#35 Mike Richter

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

More a tip than criticism.

Do something with your 2nd line.

It's a mess right now. Three shoot first guys, with Simmer being maybe the guy who would be more likely to pass the puck... The thing is, he might be the WORST passer of the three.

It could utimately be counterproductive, but I would suggest switching Dye and Bathgate. Apps was able to make a guy similar to Dye (somewhat...) work well during his career, and while there's a dropoff between Bathgate and Dye, at least, you would have a guy able to create something on your 2nd line.

I agree. Charlie Simmer needs a very, very specialized set of linemates to work. He was a great LW for the Triple Crown Line, standing in front of the net, with Dave Taylor digging the puck out in the corners and Marcel Dionne providing speed and passing.

However, the fact is this: before he was placed on that great line, young Simmer struggled to make the Seals/Barons. I do not think that you can count on him to create his own offense. I do, however, think that he would be effective putting in Bathgate's rebounds.

Your defense is very solid. Shore is of course an intimidating physical prescence.

I do not, however, see Dany Heatley working as a 3rd line winger. He needs more offensive time to be effective, and I do not see him working as a shutdown forward.

 

[Rick Middleton]

I do not, however, see Dany Heatley working as a 3rd line winger. He needs more offensive time to be effective, and I do not see him working as a shutdown forward.

My 3rd line isnt a shutdown line. It's more of a 3rd scoring line, with the 4th being the shutdown group.

 

[kruezer]

Coach: Tommy Gorman

Brendan Shanahan- Alex Delvecchio- Gordie Howe
Brian Propp- Rod Brind'Amour- Theoren Fleury
Marcel Bonin- Cooney Weiland- Bobby Nystrom
x-Dave Poulin-x

Scott Stevens- Flash Hollett
Al MacInnis- Mike Ramsey
Ron Greschner- x

Tiny Thompson
x

I would like to assassinate Gordie Howe from this lineup.

That said, you have a solid team here ADC. I would be interested in switching Shanahan and Propp if I were you, but that could just be the Flames fan in me secretly still hoping for the day Shanahan and Fleury got to lineup together.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Coach: Tommy Gorman

Brendan Shanahan- Alex Delvecchio- Gordie Howe
Brian Propp- Rod Brind'Amour- Theoren Fleury
Marcel Bonin- Cooney Weiland- Bobby Nystrom
x-Dave Poulin-x

Scott Stevens- Flash Hollett
Al MacInnis- Mike Ramsey
Ron Greschner- x

Tiny Thompson
x

Never thought of Bonin as a 3rd liner, but more as an energy guy on the 4th line. Not the greatest skillset, not elite in his own zone, but a lot of grit, passion, physical presence and is a hard working LW. A more two-way kind of player would be beneficial on that 3rd line IMO, relegating Bonin on the fourth line, were I think he belong.

Also, be ready to defend Flash on that 1st pairing. I understand you wanted an offensive minded bluliner with Stevens, but I doubt Hollett as enough defensive skillset to just be on the ice against the other teams 1st line. I'd definitely put MacInnis and Stevens together and let them play 27-30 minutes a game.

 

[Sturminator]

Also, be ready to defend Flash on that 1st pairing. I understand you wanted an offensive minded bluliner with Stevens, but I doubt Hollett as enough defensive skillset to just be on the ice against the other teams 1st line. I'd definitely put MacInnis and Stevens together and let them play 27-30 minutes a game.

I agree with Eagle here. A Stevens - Hollett pairing is almost like the old Soviet experiments with one guy hanging back (it was Ragulin, but it would be Stevens here) and the other "defenseman" playing almost a forward role. Hollett will create a good amount of offense, but I think you will pay for it twofold at the other end. As great as Stevens was, he cannot do it alone against ATD 1st lines. Also, Thompson was a bit of a nervous wreck at times in his career, and not the kind of goalie I'd want to subject to an outright shelling.

Stevens - MacInnis for 30 minutes/game is the way to go, and then Ramsay - Hollett as a 2nd pairing. Some second lines may exploit that second pairing, but I still think this is your best bet.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Toronto Marlboros
Coach: Harry Sinden


Dickie Moore-Milt Schmidt-Gordie Drillon
Doug Harvey-Gary Suter

Markus Naslund-Ron Francis-Tim Kerr
Phil Housley-Tom Johnson

Kirk Muller-Troy Murray-Frank Finnigan
Steve Smith-Bill Barilko

Thomas Steen-Bobby Carpenter-Daniel Alfredsson
Likely Doug Harvey-Tom Johnson

Spares: Alexei Kovalev, Hobey Baker, Louis Berlinquette

George Hainsworth
Jean-Sebastien Giguere


Flame away.

 

[ck26]

Dickie Moore-Milt Schmidt-Daniel Alfredsson
Doug Harvey-Phil Housley

Markus Naslund-Ron Francis-Tim Kerr
Tom Johnson-Gary Suter

Kirk Muller-Troy Murray-Frank Finnigan
Steve Smith-Bill Barilko

4th line TBD(Gordie Drillon thus far)

George Hainsworth

One thing that really jumps out on me is your 1st defensive pairing. Doug Harvey's perfect. He's one of the guys in hockey history who can dominate pretty much however he wants. Phil Housley is a very poor choice of partner for him. Harvey's at his best when he's with the puck and -- while he wasn't a mistake-prone guy -- he would do best with a partner who would be able to back him up when he made those mistakes. I'm thinking Emile Bouchard or Serge Savard or Harry Howell, someone like that. Housley and Harvey both need to be the offensive one in a defensive pairing to use either to their fullest. Harvey's the only one with enough defense to "be the defensive one", but if Doug Harvey is staying at home instead of making plays with the puck, you're not getting much of Doug Harvey.

Along the same lines, Milt Schmidt is useful defensively, but if you're counting on your 1st line center to do some big time backchecking ... wow ... yeah, interesting choice. Alfredsson is nice but he's not an impact-type defensive winger in this format, IMO. Your top 5 are a powerplay unit, not a 1st line.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

One thing that really jumps out on me is your 1st defensive pairing. Doug Harvey's perfect. He's one of the guys in hockey history who can dominate pretty much however he wants. Phil Housley is a very poor choice of partner for him. Harvey's at his best when he's with the puck and -- while he wasn't a mistake-prone guy -- he would do best with a partner who would be able to back him up when he made those mistakes. I'm thinking Emile Bouchard or Serge Savard or Harry Howell, someone like that. Housley and Harvey both need to be the offensive one in a defensive pairing to use either to their fullest. Harvey's the only one with enough defense to "be the defensive one", but if Doug Harvey is staying at home instead of making plays with the puck, you're not getting much of Doug Harvey.

Along the same lines, Milt Schmidt is useful defensively, but if you're counting on your 1st line center to do some big time backchecking ... wow ... yeah, interesting choice. Alfredsson is nice but he's not an impact-type defensive winger in this format, IMO.

I knew this would come up, and I've been prepared for it for a while. First off, while these pairings are listed this way for the obvious reasons, they're not necessarily what one will see all game. I imagine that while Housley will get a nice amount with that first unit, Tom Johnson and Gary Suter will also see some time with them, especially Johnson. However, rather than complicate matters, I simply put down the Harvey-Housley pairing.

However, who says Doug Harvey has to stay at home? Obviously he will to some extent when he's out there with Phil, but considering I see this line going against the other teams' third lines for the most part, I don't think this will be a huge problem. The defensive play of those other four guys more than compensates for Housley, even against a more offensive checking line. I think Harvey will be able to free-wheel quite a bit, even when on the ice with Phil.

 

[Sturminator]

Your top 5 are a powerplay unit, not a 1st line.

I think this is unfair. First off, you're completely ignoring Dickie Moore's two-way game, which is strong. Alfredsson isn't a high-end 1st line winger in any way, but he is also the weakest defensive player on this line, not its leader. Harvey is Harvey. Housley is probably not a guy who I'd put on a 1st pairing, but the first unit is far from weak going both ways.

This raises another point. Even if Butters' first unit was weak defensively (it is not), so what? You win by scoring more goals than the other team, whatever the method.

 

[seventieslord]

The Regina Pats

Click on player names for my ATD post of their bio.

Frank Nighbor (A)- Newsy Lalonde (C)- Yvan Cournoyer
Syd Howe - Pete Mahovlich - Mark Recchi
Craig Ramsay - Don Luce - Eric Nesterenko
Jack Marshall- Bob Bourne - Martin St. Louis

Paul Coffey - Sylvio Mantha (A)
Gus Mortson - Jack Crawford
Jim Schoenfeld - Lester Patrick

Clint Benedict
Chuck Rayner

Extras:
Steve Thomas (LW/RW)
Jimmy Roberts (D/LW/RW)
Al Secord (LW)

Coach:
Lester Patrick

PP1: Nighbor-Lalonde-Cournoyer-Coffey-Patrick
(we just want all hands on deck here, best possible offensive configuration and that happens to match our first line setup)
PP2: Howe-Mahovlich-Recchi-Mortson-Mantha
(second best offensive setup also is the same as 2nd line)
PK1: Ramsay-Luce-Schoenfeld-Mantha
(our two best defensive forwards and two best defensive defensemen, plus three of these four have proven success/chemistry)
PK2: Nighbor-Nesterenko-Mortson-Crawford
(next two best defensive forwards, and a balanced pair both up front and on the blueline)

 

[EagleBelfour]

Detroit Falcons

Coach: Dick Irvin Sr.

Valeri Kharlamov - Vladimir Petrov - Boris Mikhailov
Vic Hadfield - Jean Ratelle - Rod Gilbert
Joe Klukay - Ralph Backstrom - Blair Russel
Harry Westwick - Pit Lépine - Mike Foligno
Dan Bain

Guy Lapointe - Kenneth Reardon
Doug Mohns - Ken Morrow
Jim Neilson - Reijo Ruotsalainen

Jacques Plante
XXX


Powerplay:
Valeri Kharlamov - Vladimir Petrov - Boris Mikhailov
Guy Lapointe - Doug Mohns

Vic Hadfield - Jean Ratelle - Rod Gilbert
Kenneth Reardon - Reijo Ruotsalainen

Penalty Kill:
Ralph Backstrom - Joe Klukay
Kenneth Reardon - Ken Morrow

Vladimir Petrov - Boris Mikhailov
Guy Lapointe - Harry Westwick
​

 

[chaosrevolver]

Coaches: Anatoli Tarasov, Jacques Lemaire
C: Scott Niedermayer
A: Pat LaFontaine
A: Slava Fetisov

Valery Kamensky - Sergei Fedorov - Reggie Leach
Patrik Elias - Pat LaFontaine - Mike Gartner
J.P. Parise - Joel Otto - Jean Pronovost
Ross Lonsberry - Rick Meagher - Jamie Langenbrunner

Slava Fetisov - Vladimir Konstantinov
Scott Niedermayer - Bobby Baun
Derian Hatcher - Steve Duchesne

Martin Brodeur
Chico Resch

Powerplay
Valery Kamensky - Sergei Fedorov - Reggie Leach
Slava Fetisov - Steve Duchesne

Patrik Elias - Pat LaFontaine - Mike Gartner
Scott Niedermayer - Jean Pronovost

Penalty Kill
Pronovost - Fedorov
Fetisov - Konstantinov

Parise - Otto
Niedermayer - Baun​

 

[MXD]

The Regina Pats

Click on player names for my ATD post of their bio if you need more info. Each one is very complete, aside from a couple that I didn't get to edit before the thread was locked.

Frank Nighbor - Newsy Lalonde - Yvan Cournoyer
Syd Howe - Pete Mahovlich - Mark Recchi
Craig Ramsay - Don Luce - Eric Nesterenko
Al Secord - Bob Bourne - Dirk Graham

Paul Coffey - Sylvio Mantha
Gus Mortson - Jack Crawford
Jim Schoenfeld - Lester Patrick

Clint Benedict
Chuck Rayner

Extras:
Steve Thomas
Jack Marshall
XXXXXXXXXXX

Coach:
Lester Patrick

PP1: Nighbor-Lalonde-Cournoyer-Coffey-Patrick
(we just want all hands on deck here, best possible offensive configuration and that happens to match our first line setup)
PP2: Howe-Mahovlich-Recchi-Mortson-Mantha
(second best offensive setup also is the same as 2nd line)
PK1: Ramsay-Luce-Schoenfeld-Mantha
(our two best defensive forwards and two best defensive defensemen, plus three of these four have proven success/chemistry)
PK2: Nighbor-Nesterenko-Mortson-Crawford
(next two best defensive forwards, and a balanced pair both up front and on the blueline)

I don't know if somebody would agree to my suggestion... but... did Syd Howe played enough C to play this position on the 2nd wave of the PP?... I'm not conviced about the Little M on the PP, at C... Switching Howe for Maho would be kindof ... theoric, but I could see Second play there against some teams, depending on the matchup.

 

[seventieslord]

I don't know if somebody would agree to my suggestion... but... did Syd Howe played enough C to play this position on the 2nd wave of the PP?... I'm not conviced about the Little M on the PP, at C... Switching Howe for Maho would be kindof ... theoric, but I could see Second play there against some teams, depending on the matchup.

Howe played all forward positions and no info that I can find goes into any detail as to just how much of each he played. I think Mahovlich, being so big, makes a better center.

But, Nighbor's best position is as a center. And Mahovlich can play LW. So that gives me options. What do you think of:

PP1: Howe-Lalonde-Cournoyer-Coffey-Patrick

PP2: Mahovlich-Nighbor-Recchi-Mortson-Mantha

 

[vancityluongo]

Coach Jacques Demers

Rick Martin - Normie Ullman - Jaromir Jagr
Reg Noble - Dale Hawerchuk - Rick Vaive
Jere Lehtinen - Vinny Damphousse - Claude Provost
XXXX - Keith Primeau - XXXXX

Rod Langway - Doug Wilson
Hap Day - Ted Green
Paul Reinhart - Keith Magnuson

Terry Sawchuk
XXXXXX

That's what we've got so far. Fire away. I think I'll post suggestions and reviews of some of the teams posted later, when I get the time.

For now, I have a quick question:


Rick Martin - Normie Ullman - Jaromir Jagr
Reg Noble - Vinny Damphousse - Dale Hawerchuk
Jere Lehtinen - XXXX - Claude Provost
XXXXX - Keith Primeau - Rick Vaive

I'm starting to kind of question Vincent Damphousse as third line center. I'm thinking he's better suited as a 2nd offensive line center. Do those above forward lines look better than the previous ones? If I go with that, obviously we draft a better defensive replacement, likely someone with less offensive talent though.

 

[MXD]

Howe played all forward positions and no info that I can find goes into any detail as to just how much of each he played. I think Mahovlich, being so big, makes a better center.

But, Nighbor's best position is as a center. And Mahovlich can play LW. So that gives me options. What do you think of:

PP1: Howe-Lalonde-Cournoyer-Coffey-Patrick

PP2: Mahovlich-Nighbor-Recchi-Mortson-Mantha

I was actually more trying to suggest a way to insert Secord in the lineup whenever it was needed, when you would be facing smaller defenses. My suggestion was obviously of no avail if you face a team like Dallas (or even the Secrets).

Your lineup vs. this one is IMO pretty similar. I think I prefer the first -- Mahovlich size (and his relative lack of aggression) makes him (IMO) pretty much equal in usefulness whether he's playing C or W... Forget about my preference actually. I don't know enough of Nighbor - playmaking-wise - to say if he's good enough to properly setup a guy like Recchi. I think he is.

 

[camperjr]

Head Coach: Pat Burns
Assitant Coach:

Captain: Bob Gainey
Asstiant Captain: George Armstrong
Asstiant Captain: Kevin Lowe
Asstiant Captain: Bucko McDonald

LW-C-RW
Steve Shutt - Henri Richard - Dino Ciccarelli
Ken Hodge Sr. - Vincent Damphousse - Adam Graves
Bob Gainey - Keith Acton - George Armstrong
Eddie Shack - Chris Drury - Bill Guerin
xxx - Jason Spezza - xxx

Brain Leetch - Larry Murphy
Adam Foote - Kevin Lowe
Bucko McDonald - Ian Turnbull
Marty McSorley

Patrick Roy
Andy Moog

PP
Steve Shutt - Henri Richard - Dino Ciccarelli
Adam Graves - Brain Leetch

PP2
Ken Hodge Sr. - Vincent Damphousse - Eddie Shack
Larry Murphy - Chris Drury

PK
Bob Gainey - George Armstrong
Adam Foote - Kevin Lowe

PK2
Chris Duruy - Henri Richard
Bucko McDonald - Larry Murphy