ATD #10, Jim Robson Quarterfinals. Victoria Salmon Kings (7) vs. Nanaimo Clippers (2)

[MXD]

I think it was nearly impossible not to have an Island Showdown

Victoria Salmon Kings​

GM: hedberg
Coach: Billy Reay

Bill Barber - Darryl Sittler - Maurice Richard (A)
Paul Kariya - Joe Thornton - Brett Hull
Mike Keane - Walt Tkazcuk - Stan Smyl
John Ferguson - Edgar Laprade - Owen Nolan
extras: Tiger Williams, Pierre Turgeon

Lionel Conacher (C) - Art Ross (A)
Vladimir Lutchenko - Ulf Samuelsson
Craig Ludwig - Brian Rafalski
extra: Dollard St. Laurent

Bill Durnan
Roberto Luongo

Power play units:
PP1: Bill Barber - Darryl Sittler - Maurice Richard - Brian Rafalski - Art Ross
PP2: Paul Kariya - Joe Thornton - Brett Hull - Lionel Conacher - Vladimir Lutchenko

Penalty killing units:
PK1:Edgar Laprade - Mike Keane - Ulf Samuelsson - Craig Ludwig
PK2: Walt Tkaczuk - Stan Smyl - Art Ross- Lionel Conacher

VS​

Nanaimo Clippers​

GM: pitseleh
Coach: Arkady Chernyshev

Ted Lindsay (C) - Adam Oates - Sergei Makarov
Luc Robitaille - Duke Keats - Cecil Dillon
Jiri Holik - Billy Burch - Ken Wharram
Tony Leswick - Michael Peca - Cliff Koroll
extra: Scotty Davidson, Tumba Johansson

Pierre Pilote (A) - Borje Salming
Pat Stapleton - Ott Heller
Sergei Gonchar - Red Dutton (A)
extra: Jiri Bubla

Jiri Holocek
Normie Smith

Power play units:
PP1: Ted Lindsay - Adam Oates - Sergei Makarov - Pierre Pilote - Sergei Gonchar
PP2: Luc Robitaille - Duke Keats - Cecil Dillon - Pat Stapleton - Borje Salming

Penalty killing units:
PK1: Michael Peca - Tony Leswick - Pierre Pilote - Borje Salming
PK2: Billy Burch - Jiri Holik - Ott Heller - Red Dutton

Click to read more...

 

[God Bless Canada]

The Salmon Kings will need to find a way to stop Nanaimo's top two lines if they're going to win this thing. Easier said than done.

Nanaimo's top line is one of the best in the draft. As I've said before, I'm not a big fan of Oates for a first line, but I like him for that line, and frankly, it's easy when you're the centre for Lindsay and Makarov. It's hard to stop Terrible Ted. It's even harder when you don't have a natural No. 1 defenceman.

Battles between Conacher and Lindsay should be fun to watch.

Nanaimo's second line is very dangerous, too. Duke Keats is one of the pre-26 guys best-suited to success in the ATD.

Victoria should be able to get goals from their top two lines. They have the best clutch goal scorer ever in Richard. Never count out a team with Richard. And the Salmon Kings have one of the most potent second lines in the draft, although Thornton has a knack for failing to come up big in the post-season.

Victoria has two of the best defensive centres in the draft in Laprade and Tkaczuk. But the wings need help. LW is so bad Keane had to switch from his predominant position (RW) to a position he played a little (LW). How will Keane do against one of the best RW corps in the draft?

This team is a throwback to what we saw from pit in ATDs 7 and 8, when his teams were defined by awesome blue-line corps and depth up the middle. It's not far off his entry from ATD 8, which I thought was the best in the draft, and better than his championship winning entry in ATD 7.

Victoria lacks a true No. 1, but I think they have good depth. But they lack the workhorse who can log 25-30 minutes per night. You can get away with it in the MLD, but not the ATD.

Give Victoria an edge in net. Durnan will be able to steal the Salmon Kings a game. mullin won me over on Durnan in the last ATD. He's a top 10 goalie in the draft, and a cut above Holocek, who is in the 17-28 range.

I also give Victoria the edge behind the bench, although I think Chernyshev is better-suited to coaching in the ATD than his more celebrated running buddy Tarasov.

 

[pitseleh]

Best of luck Hedberg, you've put together a really solid team top to bottom.

I'll find some time to comment in the near future.

 

[pitseleh]

A couple of thoughts:

- Goaltending - Advantage Victoria. I have Holecek higher than GBC (I have him in the Smith/Tretiak/Gardiner tier of goalies, but Durnan rightly belongs in the top-10 of all time and that gives an edge to Victoria.

- Defense- Clear edge Nanaimo. We have the two best defensemen in the series, and I believe we have an edge head-to-head at every position #'s 1-6.

I think the biggest edge shows up in offense from the defense. I don't know how Art Ross stacks up to his defensive peers, but top-5 finishes amongst defensemen scoring look like this:

Pilote - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5
Salming - 2, 2, 4, 5
Stapleton - 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5
Heller - 3, 3
Gonchar - 1, 2, 2, 2, 5

vs.

Conacher 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4

Ross, by all accounts was an offensive threat, but that leaves just two significant point producers on the back end for Victoria, and they are both on the first pairing. They have some very steady defensive players like Lutchenko, Samuelsson, and Ludwig, but none of those guys, in the context of an ATD, are very good offensively and I think that's a big advantage that we may be able to exploit.

- Forwards - I'll break these down group by group.

Richard is obviously the most explosive threat on either respective first line, but I think on the whole our first line has greater overall scoring ability in the trio. Richard has a clear goal scoring edge over Lindsay having led the league 5 times in goals and finishing top-5 thirteen times, but Lindsay was the more well rounded offensive player, as evidenced by his edge in assists (6 times top-5 and 8 times top-10 vs. 0 times top-5 and 4 times top-10). Obviously Richard still has and advantage, but I think that advantage is overcome by Oates and Makarov's scoring edge over Sittler and Barber. Makarov is undoubtedly a better goal scorer than Barber (their respective strengths) and while Sittler was a better goal scorer than Oates, Oates has a tremendous edge in assists and an edge in points. Obviously the role of those two players is more to create room for Richard, but I think as a unit our top line should function better.

Again, Victoria has the most explosive offensive player on the respective second lines in Brett Hull and he's probably the only player on either team's second lines that has the ability to be a gamebreaker. That said, between Robitaille and Dillon, our second line has 15 combined top-10 goal scoring finishes which is more than Kariya and Hull combined. Neither of our players have Hull's peak offensively, and that's probably the most significant difference, but I think third lines might make a difference.

The biggest difference between our respective third lines is offensive ability. Tkaczuk is the strongest offensive player on Victoria's third line and has one top-10 assists/points finish and several seasons just outside the top-10. Keane had a little peak where he finished with about 140 points over three seasons during a high scoring era but for most of his career was a 20-30 point player. Like Keane, Smyl brings toughness, character, leadership and defensive play, but again was never a significant offensive producer outside of putting up big point totals during a high scoring era, and that was with significant PP time. Without that opportunity on the third line, I don't imagine he will be a significant factor.

On the other hand, Burch was a Hart trophy winner with several top-10 finishes in points, goals, and assists, and was known for being one of the better defensive players in the league (compared to Frank Boucher in some of the quotes I dug up). Wharram is probably the weakest defensive player on either third line, but was known for being a hard worker and has three top-5 finishes in ES goals, which suggests he should be able to produce on the third line without the benefit of PP time. I know there was some criticism of the Holik pick (looks at VanIslander ) but he was a consistent contributor on those Czech teams and was their best defensive forward from what I've seen and read. His peak value is probably similar to the players on Victoria's third line.

(On an associated note about Holik, in researching about him, I forgot to bring this tidbit up. I found an article that discussed a group of athletes and journalists who conducted a survey of the greatest Czech athletes in their respective sports. Jagr won, but the finalists were Dominik Hasek, Jiri Holik, and Jiri Holecek, for what it's worth. I know that a number of players like the Stastnys were Slovaks, but I believe players like Pospisil and Hlinka were Czechs, so that's some prestigious company to be a part of. You can read more here.)

Our plan is to use our third line matched against Victoria's second when possible. What this does is it forces that line to play defense. I think Thornton is slightly underrated defensively, but with the explosive offense of that line, I feel the best way to take them off their game is to make them play defense. Our third line is competent enough offensively to actually contribute. On the other hand if Victoria intends to use their third line as a checking line, that's a significant part of the game where they will be playing a line with limited offensive upside.

The fourth lines bring very different things. Ours is more focussed as a defensive checking unit, while Victoria has a tough guy, a clean, responsible defensive forward, and a gritty goal scorer. Don't think either makes a significant edge.

So overall, while Victoria has the edge in clear offensive game breakers, I think our edge in scoring from the defense and scoring depth should be enough to overcome this advantage.

 

[seventieslord]

Here, I did some quick Art Ross research while siting in my car in my laptop, leeching off someone's wireless network while waiting for my dog to get groomed.

I think if you're only going as deep as 5th, it's only fair that with Ross we concern ourselves with the times he was in the top-3 in his league among defensemen, since it was essentially a half league. I will do my best to account for other star players' stints at defense and forward where possible. I will also only include the 1907 season and onwards, because that was when he began playing in a "top" league.

1907 - Ross was in a 3-way tie for 2nd behind Hugh Ross, with Si Griffis and Paddy Chambers. Joe Hall had many more points but I know Hall was a forward at this time.

1908 - It appears Ross was in a tie for 2nd, again, with Frank Patrick. Moose Johnson topped them by one goal. Was Johnson a forward at the time? I forget. Hall topped them but he was still a forward.

1911 - Ross' 6 points were actually tied for the most in the NHA by a defenseman that season, and he did it in fewer games. Taylor outscored him but as a rover - not sure if you count that.

1912 - Ross topped the NHA. Hall and Cleghorn were 2nd and 3rd. This was Ross' peak.

1913 - Ross again topped the NHA, with Cleghorn, McNamara, Cameron and Hall within 4 points of him.

1916 - Ross finished 2nd, a point behind McNamara and three ahead of Foghorn.

I think it's fair to say that if you're top-3 in the NHA at this time, you're top 5 in all of hockey. If I was to speculate what this translates out to in a consolidated league, I'd say:

1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Gonchar territory, or a little better.

Not campaigning for anyone here, I just like to research and post what I find

 

[ck26]

I think I've located all the scoring that ISN'T on my Dallas Blackhawks squad. Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille? Second liners? Wow ...

Lindsay / Conacher is a nice matchup, but Lindsay / Rocket is a better one. If the coaches feel compelled to make it happen, that's good for at least two fights and a whole series of compelling, violent drama. Nanaimo easily has the two best defensemen, but I still don't like the way their grou pof 6 looks. Victoria's back 7 is bigger, meaner and has much better goaltending behind it.

 

[pitseleh]

Nanaimo easily has the two best defensemen, but I still don't like the way their grou pof 6 looks. Victoria's back 7 is bigger, meaner and has much better goaltending behind it.

Big and mean doesn't necessarily mean effective though. It's one thing to be big and mean Eddie Shore style and it's another to be big and mean Ulf Samuelsson style.

Dutton and Heller were both big for their eras (Dutton was 6', 185 during the 20s/early 30s, Heller was 6', 195 during the 30s/early 40s) and tough. And while Pilote and Salming weren't particular big, they were tough in their own right.

One thing I forgot to mention is that we also have Tony Leswick on the team, who was basically Richard's nemisis during his time with the Red Wings. There's a quote in another player's bio (don't want to mention him because he's undrafted) that says Richard named said player, Lindsay, and Leswick as the three players he hated playing against the most. Add in Pilote, who apparently knocked out Maurice and Henri in the same shift, and he's in for some tough sledding.

 

[Hedberg]

Thoughts on the series
- I see this teams are fairly evenly matched. Nanaimo has the better top-pairing on defense, but I think my defensive depth is nearly as good as the Clippers and my advantage in goaltending should almost negate the difference.

- Offensively, Lutchenko has largely been forgotten in this thread. Lutchenko had a deadly slapshot and has pretty good offensive numbers (the second leading scorer on defence for the Soviets in

- I like my top 6 forwards slightly better. Thornton be like Oates was in the early 90's to set up Hull.

- I don't foresee Maurice Richard having significant trouble against defenders. While he may have not liked playing against Leswick, facing his old nemesis likely will cause him to become even more determined.

- This will likely be a very hard-fought, physical series with the presence of Richard, Keane, Smyl, Nolan, Tkachuk, Conacher, Ludwig, Samuelsson, Barber, Ferguson vs Lindsay, Pilote, Leswick, Peca, Heller, etc.

- Both teams have great PKs. There is not a significant special teams advantage.

- I'm looking forward to this series. Pitseleh's teams are always great

 

[MXD]

Casted my votes. This round will have, IMO, an unexpected hero.

 

[MXD]

Every clipper needs a Pilote

Infront of a... pretty bored home crowd in Nanaimo, the smallish Clippers defensemen led the way for the Clippers, en route to a 3 to 1 victory against the Victoria Salmon Kings. Pilote scored the first goal of the game, assisted on two goals - one from Sergei Makarov when the later deflected a wristler, and one from Luc Robitaille with a magnificient breakout pass to Duke Keats, who then passes to Robitaille, who just needed to put the puck behind an half-empty net. The reminder of the game was a shutdown display by both the defense and the bottom-6 of the Clippers. All in all, a pretty easy game for goaltender Jiri Holecek, whom only faced 13 shots. Coach Billy Reay was mad at his team, which gave 8 powerplays to the Clippers, but had nothing to say against Bill Durnan's performance, which stopped 37 shots. The game turned a bit ugly at the end of the third period, when Salmon Kings D-Men Art Ross viciously elbowed Billy Burch in a 1-on-1 situation. The Clippers GM was unavailable to comment, and coach Arkady Chernyshev said, by the intermediate of Sergei Makarov, that the Ross hit was unacceptable, and that he should be sent on Ellesmere Island, or wherever there are some gulags in Canada.

Nanaimo wins 3-0, leads 1-0

Three Stars

1. Pierre Pilote, for his three points game
2. Bill Durnan, for his 37 saves on 40 shots
3. Ott Heller, who had no points, but played a terrific game on defense.

 

[MXD]

Prelude to game 2.

Governor Red Fisher decided not to suspend defencemen Art Ross after the vicious elbow he gave to Billy Burch, and answered something like : When I started to watch hockey, such move would warrant a 2-minute penalty. Now, Ron (the referee) gave Art a penalty, and I do think it was a fair punishment.. Mr. Fisher also decided to attend the game, but the Nanaimo folks wouldn’t allow him : a woman pushed the fire alarm, sending the whole crowd outside, where a bunch of mens in black suits awaited Fisher with crowbars. Fisher would be rushed to the hospital. His life isn’t in danger, but he won’t show up in Nanaimo soon.

 

[MXD]

Mr. Hockey is overrated

Those events nearly overshadowed the game… But what a game it was! The first period was Ted Lindsay’s business : just before leaving the ice, he passed the puck to Cecil Dillon, who made look Durnan really bad with a sloppy backhander. Then, during a penalty to Stan Smyl, he cut a pass from Vladimir Lutchenko, skated full-speed towards towards Durnan and beated him with a fake slapper. Lindsay fought Art Ross at the end of the first period. In the second period, Brett Hull re-directed an extremely wise pass from Paul Kariya behind Holecek, making the game 2-1 Nanaimo. Right at the beginning of the third period, Maurice Richard entered of offensive zone, made his way past Red Dutton, which cross-checked him. Still in control of the puck in spite of being on his knees, Richard fired a shot at Holecek, which was not suspecting a shot : he made the save, but Bill Barber passed by and roofed the rebound on Holecek’s glove side, thus tying the game. Richard, mad at Dutton, dropped the gloves and gave Dutton a severe beating, so much Dutton had to leave the game. Quite a feat, considering Dutton’s toughness. Sergei Makarov scored around midway in the third, but Richard tied the game one again with two minutes left. Richard was in the sin bin for a roughing penalty when Edgar Laprade took control of the puck, just as the Rocket’s penalty ended. Laprade quickly fired a hail-mary to Richard, who scored with a high, stick-side wrister. The game would go to OT… And would not last really long. Johansson tried to made it past Ludwig, but receive a solid, albeit legal hipcheck. Rafalski took the puck at Ludwig’s feet, made it past the red line, passed to Richard, with Bill Barber in a 2 on 1 situation. Richard passed to Barber, which sent it back to Richard, just over Pat Stapleton stick. Richard scored with a five-hole shot.

Victoria wins 3-2 in overtime, Series tied 1-1

Three Stars

1. Maurice Richard, with 2 goals, including the GWG in OT, 1 assist and the severe beating of Red Dutton
2. Ted Lindsay, with 1 goal, 1 assist, one fighting major (all in the first period!)
3. Bill Barber, with 1 goal and an assist.

 

[MXD]

Two mens don't make a team

Burch and Dutton are still out for the Clippers, and it doesn't bode well for Nanaimo, as Tumba played a pretty bad game 2 and Bubla nearly didn't play during the regular season. Nevertheless, the Clippers came out really strong in the first period with 18 shots, but were late 1-0 as Victoria's players and fans can thank goalie Bill Durnan for keeping them in the game. The goal came from Maurice Richard, whom, during a line-switch, caught a pass from John Ferguson and put it past Holecek. Richard scored a second goal in the second period, on a brilliant pass from Darryl Sittler. Just before the end of the 2nd period, Adam Oates came out of nowhere, caught a suicide pass from Art Ross intended to Tiger Williams, and flipped it to Sergei Makarov, who scored on Victoria's thirty-second shot on Durnan. Maurice Richard completed his hattrick in the third when he somehow went with Brett Hull in a two on zero rush. Both passed the puck, which definitely puzzled Holecek, and Richard scored on a low stick-side shot. However, the Clippers would add two powerplay goals, thanks to Duke Keats and Sergei Makarov, sending the game in OT. It wouldn't last long, either : Ted Lindsay would beat Ulf Samuellson in the corners, fire a wristler straight on Durnan's stickside glove which deflected just behind the red line, probably leaving Durnan nearly-crying behind his mask : the Salmon Kings goalie stopped 55 shots on 59, but was arguably a little weak on Lindsay's goal.

Nanaimo wins 4-3 (OT), Nanaimo up 2-1

Three Stars
1. Maurice Richard, with a hattrick in a losing cause.
2. Bill Durnan, who had a terrific game and nearly managed to pull this one, inspite of a terrible showing from his defense.
3. Sergei Makarov, with 2 goals.

 

[MXD]

Freefall


The Clippers received good news. Billy Burch would be back in due time for game 4, and Dutton, who was concussioned in a violent fight with Richard, could be back for an eventual game 7. Bubla was playing a pretty solid all-around game, but Burch would be a huge upgrade over Tumba. Burch would draw a penalty to Tiger Williams early in the game, when Tiger Williams called him Lady Bang, to which Burch replied something really gross that cannot be repeated. Tiger would drop his gloves, but Burch would not follow him. It paved the way for a Pat Stapleton, on a very weak shot. Victoria started booing Durnan, who basically kept the Salmon Kings in the game during the first three games. Brett Hull would score one a bit later, but Durnan surrendered a crucial goal late in the first to Pierre Pilote. The Salmon Kings would add another goal thanks to a penalty shot awarded to Maurice Richard after a vicious slash from Borje Salming. Salming would find redemption only late in the third, when he accepted a pass from Ted Lindsay and roofed it past Durnan. Durnan would surrender another very weak goal to Michael Peca late in the third, and leave the rink under the boos from the crowd.

Nanaimo wins 4-2, Nanaimo up 3-1

Three Stars

1. Borje Salming, with the GWG
2. Ted Lindsay, with two assists and a solid game overall
3. Walt Tkaczuk, who was scoreless, but played a terrific game overall, making the Robitaille - Keats - Dillon line completely useless in the process.

 

[MXD]

From zero to... zero

After all the boos, Bill Durnan was pretty happy to leave Victoria for Nanaimo, but he was greeted with chants from the Clippers fans. He would shut them down in the first period with 15 saves, including quite a few when his team was two men down. Early in the second period, Maurice Richard would score one, on a pass from Vladimir Lutchenko. That was all that the Salmon Kings -- or Durnan for that matter -- needed. Durnan would go on to stop every Clippers shots until the end of the game, and Hull and Richard would both add another goal, leading the way to a 3-0 victory. The round continued to be pretty chippy : Smyl would fight Keats, Ferguson pummeled Bubla but was then KOed by Ott Heller and Ross would fight, of all people, Adam Oates. Give an A+ to Oates for trying.

Victoria wins 3-0, Nanaimo up 3-2

Three Stars

1. Bill Durnan, with a shutout after a disastrous performance.
2. Maurice Richard, with two goals
3. Ott Heller, which recieved a sympathy star for pummelling Ferguson after the later attacked a non-fighting D-Men.

 

[MXD]

Shocker prior to Game 6/Blame it on the French Media.

When being asked by journalists how intended to deal with the Victoria crowd, which was pretty hostile last game, goaltender Bill Durnan did not give any reply. He seemed in a shock : he seemed to have completely forgotten about game 4. But at that very point, he remembered all the boos. A pundit and childhood friend of Roberto Luongo, stepped up and said : Do you think Roberto could do a better job than you did? Do you think he’s more apt than you are to play this game for the Salmon Kings? Durnan, who was probably not expecting this question at all (and didn’t know the pundit was somehow related to Luongo) thought about it for a few seconds… And replied : Toronto, here I come... We cannot have two goalie captains in the same team, anyways.

He took off his pads, kept his two gloves, and walked away.

 

[MXD]

Three backups, one winner

The crowd was awaiting Durnan. They wanted to give him an ovation : after all, he saved the day in Nanaimo, and they had booed him pretty hard last game. So, they were pretty shocked to see only Luongo come out of the lockers. Nobody knew, until the day after, that Durnan retired just before the playoff game and the role of Luongo’s buddy in this disaster. Nevertheless, the Salmon Kings really came out flying in the first period. First, Maurice Richard forced Pierre Pilote to make one of his rare mistakes in this round and created a turnover. He flipped the puck to Sittler, who sent the puck behind Holecek, on glove side. Two minutes later, Brett Hull scored on a similar shot, and just before the end of the first period, Conacher added another. Down 3-0, coach Chernyshev withdrew Holecek and substituted him for Normie Smith. When Smith faced his first shot, it was already 3-2 : First Makarov, then Lindsay, scored on terrific passes from Adam Oates. The Salmon Kings would score another when Owen Nolan deflected a shot from Brian Rafalski, but a few moments after, Pierre Pilote would score a third goal for the Clippers with a spectacular end-to-end rush. 4-3 after two periods. The Salmon Kings would play terrific defense in front of Luongo, but couldn’t add a goal, and all the prowesses were useless when Bill Barber took an untimely penalty for diving, during which Pierre Pilote added another goal with a slapper. Few minutes later, the buzzer would sound the end of the end of the third period.

Few seconds after the start of the overtime, Roberto Luongo skated towards his bench and made his way to the lockerroom. No one officially know what happened, but diarrhea is the main suspect. Anyways, coach Reay had to find somebody to play goalie, as the referee pressed him to send back a goalie in the crease, and amongst his squad, only Art Ross had some kind of experience, but he was needed at the blue line. He saw a familiar face (goalie Alec Connel) in the stands, but coach Chernyshev would firmly refuse Connel to play. Coach Reay decided to don the pads, as Luongo wasn’t coming back. Then something familiar happened… Pat Stapleton, from the red line… SCORES!!

Nanaimo wins 5-4, wins the round 4-2

Three Stars

1. Maurice Richard, with an extremely solid game. The best player on the ice for both teams, two goals.
2. Pierre Pilote, with two very important goals.
3. Ted Lindsay.

Series Three Stars

1. Maurice Richard
2. Ted Lindsay
3. Pierre Pilote

 

[MXD]

Sorry for the screwup pits and hedberg. It was tough to do a writeup for a Victoria/Nanaimo round ... considering my team is from Victoria as well ... I think Victoria won, at some point, every six games before I corrected!

 

[Hedberg]

Congratulations Pitseleh!

And thanks to MXD for the entertaining (and somewhat unusual ) writeups

 

[MXD]

Congratulations Pitseleh!

And thanks to MXD for the entertaining (and somewhat unusual ) writeups

Well, Durnan really retired in the midst of the playoffs, Luongo had diarrhea during a game (as you probably know...), some team asked Alec Connel to play during a game (and Art Ross refused, but he was a player in your team), and everybody blames the french media on the Habs board... Plus you had the two last goalies to be capitain on your team, plus the Rocket for the mandatory goals/scrums, plus Reay having a goalie surrender a goal from the Red Line... Okay, this one was a little wierd, but I had to make it happen.