ATD #10, Jim Robson Quarterfinals. California Golden Sea (5) vs Trail Smoke Eater (4)

[MXD]

The battle of the team names that are too long to fit in.

California Golden Seals​

GM: Agent Dale Cooper & Evil Sather
Coach: Tommy Gorman

Brian Propp - Alex Delvecchio - Gordie Howe (A)
Brendan Shanahan - Dubbie Bowie - Theo Fleury
Rod Brind'Amour (A) - Cooney Weiland- Bobby Nystrom
John Sorrell - Dave Poulin - Marcel Bonin
extras: Randy McKay, Hakan Loob

Scott Stevens (C) - Flash Hollett
Al MacInnis - Mike Ramsey
Mattias Nostrom - Ron Greschner
extra: Dion Phaneuf

Tiny Thompson
Mike Richter

Power play units:
PP1: Shanahan - Delvecchio - Howe - Stevens - MacInnis
PP2: Propp - Weiland - Fleury - Hollett - Greschner

Penalty killing units:
PK1: Propp - Poulin - Stevens - Norstrom
PK2: Brind'Amour - Fleury - MacInnis - Ramsey

VS

Trail Smoke Eaters​

GM: shawnmullin
Coaches: Glen Sather, John Muckler

Wayne Cashman - Phil Esposito (C) - Bobby Bauer
Cy Denneny - Peter Forsberg - Teemu Selanne
Dennis Hull - Buddy O'Connor - Steve Larmer (A)
Gilles Tremblay - Steve Kasper - Gary Dornhoefer
extra: Georges Mantha

Denis Potvin (A) - Joe Hall
Nikolai Sologubov - Alexander Ragulin
Graham Drinkwater - Albert Leduc
extra: Dave Manson

Vladislav Tretiak
Charlie Hodge

Power play units:
PP1: Denneny - Esposito - Bauer - Potvin - Hall
PP2: Forsberg - O'Connor - Selanne - Drinkwater - Sologubov

Penalty killing units:
PK1: Cashman - Kasper - Potvin - Hall
PK2: Tremblay - Larmer - Ragulin - Sologubov

Click to read more...

 

[shawnmullin]

Best of luck to Agent Dale Cooper & Evil Sather. You have a terrific team and I only wish we could actually watch it play out on ice.

(Hey Sather, we all know you want to throw this one... you don't want to beat slats, it hurts you to watch Sather lose... so embrace that! )

 

[shawnmullin]

First I'm curious what others think: should I move Forsberg to C on the 2nd PP Unit and replace O'Connor with Larmer? Which is a more dangerous second unit in your view?

Secondly, I want to note that I have a third and fourth PK forward unit and that every defenseman of mine with the exception of Drinkwater will see PK time. Here's my roster with links to their profiles:

Home Rink: Cominco Arena
GM: Shawn Mullin
Coach: Glen Sather
Assistant Coach: John Muckler
Captain: Phil Esposito
Alternate Captain: Denis Potvin
Alternate Captain: Steve Larmer

LW Wayne Cashman - C Phil Esposito - RW Bobby Bauer
LW Cy Denneny - C Peter Forsberg - RW Teemu Selanne
LW Dennis Hull - C Buddy O'Connor - RW Steve Larmer
LW Gilles Tremblay - C Steve Kasper - RW Gary Dornhoefer

D Denis Potvin - D Joe Hall
D Nikolai Sologubov - D Alexander Ragulin
D Graham Drinkwater - D Albert Leduc

G Vladislav Tretiak
G Charlie Hodge

Extras: LW/D Georges Mantha, D Dave Manson

PP Unit 1: Denneny-Esposito-Bauer-Potvin-Hall
PP Unit 2: Forsberg-O'Connor-Selanne-Drinkwater-Sologubov

PK Unit 1: Cashman-Kasper-Potvin-Hall
PK Unit 2: Tremblay-Larmer-Ragulin-Sologubov
PK Unit 3: Forsberg-Dornhoefer-Potvin-Leduc
PK Unit 4: O'Connor-Hull-Ragulin-Sologubov​

 

[Evil Sather]

I think a 2nd PP forward unit of Manson-Ragulin-Hall is your best bet.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I think this is one of the toughest series of the first round. I had both teams higher than where they finished. It means a damn good team is going to be finished early.

I'm guessing we're going to see a lot of Denis Potvin vs. Gordie Howe match-ups. It's one of those match-ups in which you evaluate it, try your best to determine who has the advantage. It'll be a tough call. And it will go a long ways in determining the victor of this series.

I'm also pretty sure we'll see a lot of Ragulin out there against Shanahan. That will be a fun battle to watch. And Stevens will be matched up against Cash and Espo on a regular basis. I'd love to see Stevens vs. Cashman battle for the puck in the boards on a nightly basis.

The only question would be: if Cashman wins the battle, then what? Hollett vs. Espo in front could mean trouble.

When looking at a series like this, I try to find an advantage behind the bench. I'm going to have to look at another area. Both sides have very good coaching. mullin's team is a Sather type of team. Maybe not as mobile as you'd expect for a Sather team, but they can score goals. The Seals are the type of two-way team that Gorman would love to coach.

Goaltending? I think it's even. Ratings for Tretiak are all over the place, but I think he's in that 15-28 range of goalies. Same with Tiny Thompson. Not much of an edge there, although if I had to go with one, I'd probably take Tretiak. But it won't be the difference maker.

I like the versatility of the Seals top two lines. They're balanced and they're well-built. Both lines have a power forward. Both lines have a grinder. I'm not sure about Bowie as a second line guy, but if he falters, Cooney Weiland is more than capable of playing as a second line centre.

Both teams have the potential for a lot of goals from their top two lines. They also have the potential for goals from their third line. If the Seals need goals, they can always bring Loob into the line-up for the third line, giving them three dangerous scoring lines, and move Nystrom to the fourth line.

Both teams have excellent defence corps. Trail's top three is better, and they have the best defenceman in the series. California has been depth, and they have Stevens and MacInnis.

It's going to be a heck of a series. One of the best we'll see in the draft. Should come down to the third period (or OT) of Game 7.

 

[shawnmullin]

Regarding Tretiak vs. Thompson, I know GBC you and some others are not necessarily huge on Tretiak due to some questions about competition and what not. Others (myself included) have him ranked a lot higher than being in the "15 to 28" group.

For example, some of the brightest minds on the HFboards (including several of those involved in this draft) ranked Tretiak 52nd on the History of Hockey Top 100 list. They also ranked him as the 9th best goaltender in hockey history.

Tiny Thompson isn't on the list.

I don't think Tretiak is top 5, but I think in terms of talent between the pipes it is a distinct advantage for me against Thompson. I'll get into it a little more when I have time.

That's the only part of your well thought out and fair analysis I disagree with. Obviously I believe I have the advantage in this series, but I do agree it's very close and a good team will be knocked out in the first round.

I just happen to think goaltending is quite a bit more than a wash.

 

[nik jr]

i would remove bauer from the PP and insert larmer.

i would also put either o'connor or forsberg with esposito on the 1st PP.

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

One advantage that I feel we have is our playoff performance, specifically of our forwards. We have 7 players (Howe, Delvecchio, Stevens, MacInnis, Brind'Amour, Shanahan, Propp) with over 100 playoff points, Theo Fleury with over ppg in the postseason, 4-time cup winner Bobby Nystrom, 4 time champion and retro Conn Smythe winner Marcel Bonin, two time winner Johnny Sorrell, etc.
The only two forwards in our top 12 who have not won a cup are Propp and Poulin, and they were extremely good in the playoffs regardless.
Also, our forwards are very solid defensively and dangerous shorthanded. Here are our penalty killers' finishes in shg.
Brind'Amour

1991-92 NHL 4 (4)
1992-93 NHL 4 (7)
1995-96 NHL 4 (10)
Active 27 (6)
Career NHL 27 (29)

Propp

1984-85 NHL 7 (2)
1986-87 NHL 5 (5)
Career NHL 22 (48)

Poulin

1984-85 NHL 4 (7)
1985-86 NHL 6 (3)
1987-88 NHL 5 (7)
1988-89 NHL 5 (6)
1992-93 NHL 5 (5)
Career NHL 39 (6)

Fleury

1989-90 NHL 3 (10)
1990-91 NHL 7 (2)
1995-96 NHL 5 (7)
1998-99 NHL 3 (8)
2000-01 NHL 7 (2)
Career NHL 35 (9)

 

[shawnmullin]

The only two forwards in our top 12 who have not won a cup are Propp and Poulin, and they were extremely good in the playoffs regardless.

The only two forwards in my top 12 who have not won a cup are Hull and Kasper unless I'm missing something.

I don't think you can really say your guys have a playoff tested advantage. My guys have all proven themselves in the post season and are ready for the wars.

I'm sick and on the road so this is a bad time for me to talk about the series. I wish I could do this justice.

A couple of things I wanted to mention...

I have three hart trophy winners centering my top 3 lines and a Selke winner centering my fourth line. That shows you basically what I'm looking for here. Three scoring lines (though my third is a two way unit as well) that will hit you in waves with a fourth line checking unit. I've spread two way players throughout that line-up two... with guys like Cashman, Forsberg and Larmer making sure that each line has their conscience.

I've spread the physicality throughout the line-up too. Denneny and Hall were enforcers in early hockey wars. Leduc was a huge physical player. Both my russian D were known for being russian bears. Dornhoefer is a broadway bully. There's strong balance there.

On top of having the best defenseman in the series (Potvin) I think my second pairing is really intersting and among the better second pairings in the draft. Sologubov has been called one of the top 2 russian defensemen of all time while Ragulin is also in the discussion for top russian defensemen in history. They are both legends of the USSR machine who will make life difficult at both ends of the ice.

Advantages? The biggest one in my view is in goal. Tretiak is one of the top 10 goaltenders of all time and one of the top 100 players of all time. Tiny isn't. He's at best middle of the pack goaltender in this draft while Tretiak is a legend known for his ability to steal games. He won't steal a whole series, but if he steals a game or two that should be enough to make the difference between two very evenly matched teams. I don't think Tiny is a game stealer.

I have two legit first rounders leading my team. You could build teams around Potvin and Esposito. Having them both means I was lucky enough to build a D core around Potvin and a forward group around Espo. Obviously Howe is the best player in the series, but I have two legit ATD franchises to build around while they have one.

Up the middle in general is an advantage for me IMO. Esposito and Forsberg vs. Delvecchio and Bowie? If games are won up the middle I have to be ahead of the game there.

Another advantage is that my second line is going to score a lot more than theirs. Denneny retired as the all time leading scorer in the NHL. Selanne's as brilliant a goal scorer as any over the last two decades... and they've got one of the best overall players of the last two decades in between them. Forsberg is also a brilliant playmaker who has two legendary snipers between him. I don't think Shanny, Bowie and Fleury can match them.

Coaching, I think we both have strong coaches who fit their team. However, I give my team the advantage here because I've re-united my coach with his assistant/co-coach with whom he coached a dynasty. Sather on his own is a tremendous coach and motivator. With Muckler he's got a record no one has matched. Together from 82-83 to 87-88 they made the finals 5 times in 6 years and won 4 cups in 6 years... and won the 84 Canada Cup together. Sather is the leader while Muckler is the Xs and Os man. They know how to coach a team of superstars and they know how to win in the playoffs. There can be no questions about how well this duo can work together.

Finally I have home ice advantage. If this series is as close as everyone says (and I think it is) I'd have to think that home ice on game 7 is certainly something that pushes it in my direction. Say you look at the teams and really can't decide who is better... it's a tie in your mind... game 7 home ice could be the tipping point.

I have a ton of respect for the Seals and commend them for a strong entry. Good luck in the voting!

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

I don't think you can really say your guys have a playoff tested advantage. My guys have all proven themselves in the post season and are ready for the wars.

Teemu Selanne has always been the Marcel Dionne of the new era, playoffs-wise, and being a passenger on a cup-winning team does not change that.
Bobby Bauer's ppg falls by 50% in the playoffs, an incredible drop even for the era.

I've spread the physicality throughout the line-up too. Denneny and Hall were enforcers in early hockey wars. Leduc was a huge physical player. Both my russian D were known for being russian bears. Dornhoefer is a broadway bully. There's strong balance there.

We have Gordie Howe, perhaps the most physically dominating player in the history of the game. We have Brendan Shanahan, a physical modern power forward. On defense, we have the ultra-tough Scott Stevens, Mattias Norstrom (who took Peter Forsberg out of the entire '01 playoffs and '02 season with a spleen-crunching hit- I'll be sure to put Matty out against Forsberg).
Bobby Nystrom was a tough, physical player, not ever afraid to stand up for teammates.
None of our forwards can be labeled soft, whereas Teemu Selanne is clearly at a disadvantage in the physicality department.

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

Regular Season playoff ppg vs. playoff ppg
Phil Esposito
1.24
1.05
-.19

Wayne Cashman
.77
.61
-.16

Bobby Bauer
.80
.40
-.40

first line
-.75 from reg. season to playoffs

Gordie Howe
1.05
1.02
-0.3

Alex Delvecchio
.83
.86
+0.3

Brian Propp
0.99
0.93
-0.06

so, our first line's ppg is decreased by 0.06 in the playoffs, compared to their first line's fall of .75.

second line
Forsberg
1.25
1.13
-.12

Denneny
(due to era, not particularly relevant.

Selanne
1.08
0.72
-3.6

second line -.48
-
Brendan Shanahan
0.90
0.74
-0.16

Theo Fleury
1.00
1.03
+0.03

Dubbie Bowie
(ditto Denneny)

so, of the two NHL-era players on both second lines, ours fall .13 ppg in the playoffs compared to their .48

 

[God Bless Canada]

So, what you're saying is that Trail has the two most productive post-season players in the series? That's not the most convincing argument you could have come up with.

Incidentally, during his eight-year peak in Boston, Espo had 101 points in 71 post-season games. (That removes both some good performances, such as his performance in 79 with the Rangers, and some performances from early in his career with Boston).

We know that Selanne was a playoff fader, but to question Forsberg's ability in the post-season is fallacious. He was an incredible post-season performer. As for Bauer, he played at a time when post-season scoring was very difficult. (Seriously. Try to find a guy with a point-per-game in the playoffs who played the majority of their career between 1926 and 1960).

I voted already (before ADC's "Liars figure and figures lie" post), and I will say that this series, along with Regina/Winnipeg, was the toughest series to vote on.

 

[MXD]

... Bonin on the RW?

 

[seventieslord]

ADC, I agree there is not enough data to really make a comparison regarding Bowie's regular seasons to his playoffs. With Denneny, you have more than enough.

He had 370 pts in 370 regular season games (NHL/NHA) = 1.00
He had 28 pts in 43 playoff games (NHA, NHL, St-Cup) = 0.65

 

[raleh]

Hey boys,

I'm doing your write up. I just got in, but I'm heading to bed. I'm pretty drunk, so if I tried tackling the write ups now, Eric Lindros would somehow find a way onto one of the rosters and score a thousand hat tricks. Sorry. They'll be done by tomorrow night.

 

[shawnmullin]

As long as Lindros scored a hundred hat tricks for Trail...

 

[raleh]

Game 1

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen (are there any ladies in the ATD forum? I doubt it- well Murphy, but that's about it). This raleh, reporting on the Trail vs California series from high up at the Royal London Wax Museum!

Silliness aside, game one proved that this series would live up to expectations. Going into it, many suggested that this was the best first round match up. The teams did not disappoint. The opening faceoff was won by Phil Esposito, who stepped into Alex Delvecchio and threw the puck back to Denis Potvin. Suddenly there was a gasp from the crowd. Everyone, including the ref turned suddenly to the right side of the faceoff circle where Gordie Howe was bleeding from a cut just above his left ear and Wayne Cashman's nose was about a half inch higher than it had been before the puck was dropped. The two stood there staring at each other for a few moments before jumping into the play. The ref never saw a thing.

After a scoreless first period that saw Vladislav Tretiak rob Flash Hollet on an end to end rush, the scoring was opened early in the second. Rod Brind'amour stripped Buddy O'connor of the puck in the Smoke Eater's zone and fed it back to Al MacInnis who wired a shot passed a startled Tretiak. Howe made it a 2-0 lead when he powered past Alexander Ragulin, holding him off with one arm and flipped the puck over Tretiak's shoulder with the other arm. "I could have sworn he was a right handed shot" mumbled Ragulin after the game. Ragulin would try to make up for being beaten on the play when he would lie down in front of a MacInnis shot while killing a penalty.

Esposito brought Trail within one when Cashman out muscled Scott Stevens along the boards and fed a pass onto Espo's stick. The shot hit Thompson in the pads, but Espo cashed in on his own rebound. That was as close as trail would come as Theoren Fleury potted a late third period goal and danced past the Trail bench.

California wins game one 3-1
California leads series 1-0

 

[raleh]

Game 2

The California Golden Seals were within a minute of leaving Trail with a 2 game lead heading home. Howe had popped in 2 goals in the first period and assisted on another by MacInnis on a powerplay with Cashman in the box.

Up 3-0, the Seals started coasting home, but the Smokies had different plans. Potvin scored on a wrist shot from the point that wasn't screened or tipped. Tiny Thompson barely even reacted as the shot went straight into the top corner. Potvin didn't even celebrate. He just skated back to his blue line for the faceoff. The draw was won by O'connor back to Potvin who rushed end to end, stepped around Ramsey and and deked Thompson out. The goals were 12 seconds apart.

With time winding down, Dubbie Bowie was stickhandling through the neutral zone at the end of a shift. California was trying to get the Brindy line out, but Bowie missed a chance to dump the puck into the trail zone. Potvin and Forsberg converged on him, dumping him to the ice. Forseberg fed Selanne, who dropped it back to Foppa who's one timer from just inside the blue line beat Thompson stick side.

One over time period after another passed, with both teams having quality scoring chances. Theo Fleury was everywhere, and was being particulary pesky until Denis Hull lifted him up and dumped him onto his own bench. This resulted in a tilt between Hull and Shanahan.

On the ensuing 4 on 4, Forseberg won a draw deep in the California zone and Potvin blasted home the one timer to complete the hat trick and knot the series at one in the third overtime.

Trail Smoke Eaters win game two 4-3
Series tied 1-1

 

[raleh]

Game 3

Gordie Howe was sitting in the Golden Seals' locker room when he was approached by a reporter who had found his way in. "Denis Potvin seems to have taken the series over in the last game. He seemed to be scoring at will, how do you guys intend to contain him?" The question is seemingly harmless, but Howe's response shows that he's not amused. "Let's see how ****ing Potvin intends on containing Gordie Howe, shall we?"

A tad presumptuous one might think. But Mr. Hockey made everyone in attendance take notice. Before the end of the second period Howe had scored three times and assisted on Brian Propp's first goal of the playoffs. In the middle of the third he tangled with Denis Potvin, knocking him off of his feet with a right handed uppercut. He added a fourth goal late in the third with Alexander Ragulin seemingly hanging off of his back and landed a nice elbow to the Russian Bears face after the fact.


Thompson's shutout was spoiled midway through the third period when Buddy O'connor scored on a breakaway. Gordie Howe left the ice to a thundering ovation.

California wins 5-1
California leads series 2-1

 

[shawnmullin]

I think it's time Joe Hall speared Howe in the kidney

 

[raleh]

Game 4

After splitting the games in Trail and being dominated in game three in California, the Smoke eaters realized they needed to respond. There was a certain amount of desperation in the locker room. The team answered the bell early as Glenn Sather started double shifting Forsberg. Forsberg and Joe Hall were battering Howe every time he touched the puck, but Howe seemed to simply brush it off, waiting for his moment. The first period was all Trail as Forsberg beat Norstrom to the outside and then cut in and put the puck right on the stick of Denneny for the tap in. Potvin added a second goal as the period drew to a close with an end to end rush. Graham Drinkwater attempted a similar play was was stymied by Tiny Thompson.

The second and third periods were scoreless as both teams held down the fort. Scott Stevens and Peter Forsberg had a few good battles along the boards, and Theo Fleury was hit with a shot from behind by Albert Leduc late in the game. Howe was kept off the score sheet, but he and Potvin tangled in front of the Trail net again with Howe coming out on top for the second time.

Trail wins game four 3-0
Series tied 2-2

 

[raleh]

Game 5

Back on home ice, the Trail Smoke Eaters were determined to get themselves into a position where they didn't have to win on the road again in the series. The Golden Seals struck first however, with Joe Hall in the box for spearing Gordie Howe in the kidney. Howe was slow to get up, but winked at Hall as he skated back to the bench. On the ensuing powerplay, Al MacInnis wired a shot over Tretiak's left shoulder. Tretiak seemed stunned after the play, it seemed as though he hadn't seen the shot. Howe would make it 2-0, but before the period was over Bauer had brought the Smokies within one, converting on a pass from Potvin.

Early in the second, Phil Esposito carried the puck into California's zone where he ran into one Scott Stevens. Stevens left his feet for the hit and left Espo prone on the ground. Wayne Cashman came flying in and dropped his gloves and the two had a tilt that lasted almost two minutes. Esposito would be alright, and would jam in a Bobby Bauer rebound after missing only two shifts in which Forsberg took his spot on the top line.

With the score tied 2-2 and the third period winding down, the teams prepared for yet another overtime game. This one wouldn't last as long as Forsberg slapped one past Thompson early in the first extra frame. The Trail Smoke Eaters had, in dramatic fashion, put themselves within one win of advancing.

Trail wins 3-2
Trail leads series 3-2

 

[raleh]

Game 6

Gordie Howe was again unstoppable tonight with the series on the line, but first he had a few scores to settle. Joe Hall and Peter Forsberg were both on the ice to start the game and you could tell Howe had a plan. Delvecchio won the draw and kicked the puck over to Howe, Howe was easily stripped of the puck by Forsberg and suddenly Forsberg was lying on the ice grabbing his foot. After watching a replay, it appears as though Howe speared Forsberg in his bad foot but the league has ruled after the fact that no suspension is to be handed out, just a small fine. Joe Hall jumped into the fray immediately, and was greeted by the big meaty fists of Howe. They were sent off for coincidental fighting majors and Forsberg would not return to the game.

On the ensuing four on four, Dubbie Bowie took a brilliant feed from Flash Hollett, turned Sologubov inside out and beat Ragulin and Tretiak to open the scoring. Steve Larmer answered for Trail on the same four on four one timing a beautiful pass from Buddy O'connor.

Later in the period Denis Hull was sent in alone on a one on one with Scott Stevens. Hull seemed wary about trying to beat Stevens, so he drew back and fired a slap shot. Most of the players cracked up as the puck went about 30 feet wide and over the glass. Gordie Howe skated by Hull and said "just about anyone else in your family would have scored there".

In the third period Howe took over, breaking the tie on a nice pass from Brian Propp. Howe then assisted on a MacInnis goal, and then Delvecchio in on a breakaway to make it 4-1.

California wins game six 4-1
Series tied 3-3

 

[raleh]

Game 7

Game 7 in trail was not the barn burner it was expected to be. After clawing their way to two overtime victories and failing to finish off the series in California, the Smoke Eaters seemed tired. Forsberg was back in the lineup, but while he was clearly the best forward for the Smokies before his foot injury, he seemed a bit more tentative today. Especially when Howe was around. Speaking of Howe, he had another incredible game, seeming to not be feeling the effects of the previous six. He opened the scoring late in the third period on a solo rush that left Albert Leduc wondering why the hell he was on the ice.

Howe would score again in the second period on the powerplay redirecting Flash Hollet's point shot. Trail would get back to within one as Denis Potvin tried to will the team back into the game on a solo rush that beat Thompson stick side. It was not enough, however, as the Golden Seals simply tightened their game up and trapped their way to a series victory. The icing on the cake was Scott Stevens knocking Selanne out cold late in the third period.

California wins 2-1
California wins series 4-3

Three Stars:
1. Gordie Howe
2. Denis Potvin
3. Al MacInnis

 

[raleh]

Sorry this one took so long and wasn't quite as good as the last write ups. I had to write most of it at work and then didn't get home until about half an hour ago. Good series though, I really liked both of these teams and thought Trail deserved a much better fate than playing California in the first round.