ATD #10 - Foster Hewitt Final: Kenora Thistles (2) vs. Winnipeg Jets (5)

[God Bless Canada]

Kenora Thistles
GM: papershoes
Head coach: Punch Imlach
Assistant coach: Bob Pulford

Toe Blake (C) - Elmer Lach (A) - Guy Lafleur
Clark Gillies - Marcel Dionne - Vladimir Martinec
Bob Pulford - Kris Draper - Kirk Maltby
Venjamin Alexandrov - Frank Fredrickson - Paul Henderson
extra: Dave Schultz

Red Kelly (A) - J.C. Tremblay
Silas Griffis - Mike Grant
Harry Mummery - Tomas Jonsson
extra: Bob Turner

Hap Holmes
Lorne Chabot

Power play units:
PP1: Toe Blake - Elmer Lach - Guy Lafleur - Red Kelly - J.C. Tremblay
PP2: Clark Gillies - Marcel Dionne - Vladimir Martinec - Tomas Jonsson - Mike Grant

Penalty killing units:
PK1: Bob Pulford - Kris Draper - Red Kelly - Harry Mummery
PK2: Toe Blake - Elmer Lach - J.C. Tremblay - Mike Grant

Winnipeg Jets
Co-GMs: vancityluongo & Evil Speaker
Head coach: Jacques Demers
Assistant coach: Lindy Ruff

Reg Noble - Norm Ullman - Jaromir Jagr
Rick Martin - Dale Hawerchuk (A) - Rick Vaive
Jere Lehtinen - Doug Risebrough - Claude Provost
Shayne Corson - Keith Primeau - Jim Peplinski
extra: Wayne Merrick

Rod Langway (A) - Doug Wilson
Hap Day (C) - Ted Green
Paul Reinhart - Keith Magnuson
extra: Gary Bergman

Terry Sawchuk
Bill Ranford

Power play units:
PP1: Martin - Ullman - Jagr - Green - Wilson
PP2: Noble - Hawerchuk - Vaive - Reinhart - Day

Penalty killing units:
PK1: Risebrough - Provost - Langway - Green
PK2: Primeau - Lehtinen - Day - Magnuson
​

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[papershoes]

congrats vcl and speaker for making it to the conference finals - this winnipeg team is a well-built squad. kenora looks forward to the challenge.

with 209 km separating these two hockey towns, this match-up will surely be a provincial border barn-burner.

 

[God Bless Canada]

No frequent flier miles for this series. Two communities so close together. Come on, boys, we need mayoral wagers here.

Interesting situation for Winnipeg. They beat a team with two tremendously skilled offensive centres in the last round. In this round, they play a team with two tremendously skilled offensive centres. Lach and Dionne are outstanding players.

But here's the difference. In the last round, Winnipeg played a team that relied heavily on their centres for scoring. Nedomansky was the only really strong offensive winger. Bondra and LeClair were dangerous if you got them the puck, but if you disrupted the passing lanes, they weren't going to be that effective.

Kenora's a different story. Their first line is lethal. Most dangerous offensive line remaining. LaFleur is the best RW remaining. Blake is one of the top four LWs remaining. (Along with Moore, Kharlamov and Jackson). Kenora has the slick Martinec on the second line. To top it off, they have the best offensive defenceman remaining (Kelly), a money offensive defenceman (Tremblay) and a darn good offensive defenceman (Griffis).

Provost and Lehtinen are two of the best defensive wingers in the draft, but they will definitely have their work cut out for them. That's a critical match-up. The best offensive line remaining against the best defensive line remaining.

Expect Langway and Day to be pivotal players, too. Day will once again be a key figure due to his mobility, hockey sense and aggressiveness. If he can't handle the skill of the top line, Winnipeg could be in trouble.

I would expect that Kenora will want their top line out there against Winnipeg's second line as much as possible. No offence to Hawerchuk, Martin and Vaive, but they aren't good enough defensively to keep up with the blazers on Kenora's top line.

We won't see another goalie match-up in this draft as lopsided as Sawchuk vs. Holmes. Winnipeg will be very happy they have Sawchuk in this series. Many regard Sawchuk as the best ever. And if I had to pick a playoff MVP at this point, it would be Sawchuk. As good as Sawchuk was in the minor upset over Regina, and the big upset over Houston, he's going to need to be even better against Kenora, because the Thistles have offence coming from all directions. Sawchuk vs. Kenora's offence might be the biggest match-up of all in this series.

I keep waiting for Kenora's coaching situation to blow up in their face. Frankly, I thought it would happen in the last round. And it nearly did. Is this the series in which it will happen? I don't know, but I do give Winnipeg an edge behind the bench. (Never thought I'd give Demers an edge over Imlach).

 

[Know Your Enemy]

Provost and Lehtinen are two of the best defensive wingers in the draft, but they will definitely have their work cut out for them. That's a critical match-up. The best offensive line remaining against the best defensive line remaining.

Provost vs Lafleur or Jagr vs Maltbly. I like my odds. We have good offense too GBC

I would expect that Kenora will want their top line out there against Winnipeg's second line as much as possible. No offence to Hawerchuk, Martin and Vaive, but they aren't good enough defensively to keep up with the blazers on Kenora's top line.

Not saying Dale was special on D but for what it's worth he was used in a checking role during the 87 canada cup against the worlds best. Also I think it's hard to judge a players defensive skill when he is relied on for basically 100% of a teams offense (the 1980's Jets of course)

 

[vancityluongo]

congrats vcl and speaker for making it to the conference finals - this winnipeg team is a well-built squad. kenora looks forward to the challenge.

with 209 km separating these two hockey towns, this match-up will surely be a provincial border barn-burner.

Congrats to you as well paper. It's especially amazing considering you were in the middle of moving for a large chunk of the draft, and managed to ice a high flying team with a lot of your core as list picks.

Looking forward to a good series.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Provost vs Lafleur or Jagr vs Maltbly. I like my odds. We have good offense too GBC



Not saying Dale was special on D but for what it's worth he was used in a checking role during the 87 canada cup against the worlds best. Also I think it's hard to judge a players defensive skill when he is relied on for basically 100% of a teams offense (the 1980's Jets of course)

You have a good offence. Kenora has the best offence from the eight remaining teams. Best offensive line left in the draft. Best offensive defenceman left in the draft. And then Dionne, Martinec, Tremblay, Griffis and Frederickson are there, too.

Jagr will probably lined up a lot against Pulford, not Maltby. And don't underestimate Maltby's defensive ability.

 

[papershoes]

You have a good offence. Kenora has the best offence from the eight remaining teams. Best offensive line left in the draft. Best offensive defenceman left in the draft. And then Dionne, Martinec, Tremblay, Griffis and Frederickson are there, too.

Jagr will probably lined up a lot against Pulford, not Maltby. And don't underestimate Maltby's defensive ability.

i feel that, if push comes to shove, we can role any of our top-three lines and effectively neutralize jagr.

with both blake and lach on the top-line, we can play this line at any point in the game and have top-notch play both offensively and defensively.

gillies provides the defensive presence, and toughness, on the 2nd line to neutralize jagr - should these two lines line-up against one another.

if our third line is employed to neutralize the jets first line, pulford will be jagr's personal shadow. pulford has been described by the man himself, as being "gordie howe's personal headache" - so, we have no doubt in our minds he can neutralize jagr.

finally, maltby, while no provost, can capably slow-down jagr should the two lines match-up.

 

[vancityluongo]

I'm good with a bet btw. Did one last time with seventieslord, if you've noticed by his custom user title, "VCL pwns".

I'll go for an avatar bet this time paper, if you're up for it.

Kenora is a a very high-powered offensive machine. I don't doubt that they're one of the best offensive teams left.

However, on the flip side, I'd say they're one of the weaker defensive teams left. It's all fine and dandy to say the Thistles top line could potentially score a lot against our weaker defensive guys, and it would also be fair to say Provost and Lehtinen will have their hands full with Lafleur and Blake. But it would be ridiculous to think that this series is between our checking line vs. Kenora's top line. (not saying anyone suggested this, just pointing it out).

Bob Pulford is a decent tough guy bottom-6 guy. Kirk Maltby is a below average third liner, probably a lot better (at least adequate) as a fourth liner. Neither of these guys has what it takes to contain Jagr. Honestly, while I know some think he's overrated from the Summit Series, I think Henderson would be a better bet to check Jagr than either Maltby or Pulford. Which would still be a failure. I think your best bet would be to move Gillies down to the third line with Maltby and Draper, but then you got a gaping hole on the left side on your second line. I'm interested to hear your take on this, and I'm not talking about Pulford calling himself "Howe's headache".

I think Dallas was beat because they just didn't have the offensive guns, despite the rock solid defense. People saw the matchup against KC as a fire vs. fire matchup, with Orr leading the way for the Scouts, and decided Kenora had the better offense. That isn't the case here, as we're built from the net out with Sawchuk, and have guys to neutralize the Kenora offense, while also scoring goals. And I think we'll score a lot of goals, because I honestly have doubts about Kenora's entire team defense. From what I see, it seems the Thistles strategy is that if you have the puck all game, the other team can't score, and while that's true, it won't be working against us.

Red Kelly is clearly the best defensemen in the series, and it could possibly be argued that Tremblay is as good as Langway (I don't think he is, but some may feel that way). You've also got Si Griffis, who is a fair notch below Wilson, but played similarly I think. But you don't have any top defensive defensemen, someone who can play against our top guns and neutralize them offensively, like a Langway. Red Kelly is a top-8 ever defensemen for sure, some argue even higher. I have him definitely after Orr, Shore, Harvey, Bourque and Potvin, and in an arguable group with Robinson and Lidstrom. But that's overall. Kelly gains his reputation as one of the best blueliners of all-time for his puckmoving abilities, and offensive prowess, not for being a good shutdown defensemen.

Another quick point, because I'm going to go watch the Nucks' game: is Kenora's second line actually better than ours? We can analyze this later but I don't see how this team has very much offense actually past Kelly, Dionne and the top line (haha, I realize this sentence must sound kinda ridiculous, because no doubt that those five guys is a ton of offense for sure). All those guys however play on the first unit, with the exception of Dionne; and while I may be missing something, I don't think that entire line (as a unit) can be classified as similarly dangerous, or very dangerous at all.

Dionne to start off, of course has the playoff record. Yes, I'm going to mention it. Am I going to trash him for it? No, because I believe it's Pejorative Sluredly overblown out of proportion, but underneath that exaggeration lies a reality. Gillies is a decent second liner, but that'd be like us putting Provost or Lehtinen on the second line; in other words, IMO he's way better as a elite third liner (I know I mentioned that above, I'm kinda starting to blabber). Martinec is a good offensive guy, and a top-6 guy. But I don't think there is any real advantage here if matched up against our second line. For either team.

 

[seventieslord]

So you'll get Gilles to play on his off wing to chase around Jagr? It's going to take alot more than that to 'neutralize' Jagr because no one was doing it when he was winning Stanley cups and art ross trophies.
I'm curious as to what 5 man unit you will play against our top line. besides effective defending is done by the play of a whole unit, not just man to man.

Not that I think Gillies has any chance of Neutralizing Jagr, but, he is a LW and Jagr is a RW, so, he wouldn't have to be on his off wing to attempt it.

 

[papershoes]

Bob Pulford is a decent tough guy bottom-6 guy. Kirk Maltby is a below average third liner, probably a lot better (at least adequate) as a fourth liner. Neither of these guys has what it takes to contain Jagr. Honestly, while I know some think he's overrated from the Summit Series, I think Henderson would be a better bet to check Jagr than either Maltby or Pulford. Which would still be a failure. I think your best bet would be to move Gillies down to the third line with Maltby and Draper, but then you got a gaping hole on the left side on your second line. I'm interested to hear your take on this, and I'm not talking about Pulford calling himself "Howe's headache".

i'll try to address the remaining points in a later post - but, just wanted to address this one first. i think you are severely underrating pulford here. he is easily a solid checking lw in an all-time draft format.

also, it wasn't pulford who called himself howe's personal headache - it was gordie howe himself. take it for what its worth but, if gordie howe applauds pulfords checking / shutdown ability, i have no doubt he'll be able to shutdown jagr.

Pulford was promoted to the Leafs for the 1956-57 season and proved to be a hard- working, two-way player who excelled at checking the game's top scorers. "Pulford is one of my private headaches," said Gordie Howe, "because he has to be classed as one of hockey's greatest forecheckers. There's a deep knowledge of the game in his forechecking, hook, poke check, strength of arms, quickness, the whole bundle of wax."

Bob was considered one of the best fore-checkers in the NHL with a knack of scoring important goals. He thrived under pressure and was especially valuable during the playoffs when the checking got tougher.

 

[papershoes]

Kenora is a a very high-powered offensive machine. I don't doubt that they're one of the best offensive teams left.

However, on the flip side, I'd say they're one of the weaker defensive teams left. It's all fine and dandy to say the Thistles top line could potentially score a lot against our weaker defensive guys, and it would also be fair to say Provost and Lehtinen will have their hands full with Lafleur and Blake. But it would be ridiculous to think that this series is between our checking line vs. Kenora's top line. (not saying anyone suggested this, just pointing it out).

i'm not sure i agree with the assessment of the thistles being the weakest defensive team in the draft - it seems as though the team defence of the thistles is being slightly underrated. our offensively explosive first line has two of the finest two-way players in blake and lach. this line can confidently be put out in all situations, playing against any of winnipegs lines (including going one on one with the jagr line). additionally, gillies brings the defensive awareness necessary for the second line to be used extensively as well. therefore, as a whole, i believe my top two-lines are much better suited for a two-way game then winnipegs top two.

my third line is loaded with three multiple cup winners (all three of which have 4 cups each) that are defensively responsible. all three have been instrumental as a defensive presence in numerous cup winners.

finally, though my defence may not appear to be as defensive as the jets (we certainly don't have anyone as 'defensive' as langway), they are certainly not one-way, offensive, players. kelly, though regarded as a premier offensive defensman, was no slouch in the defensive zone. his hockey sense allowed him to succeed as both a defenseman and a centre.

Yet as good as he was offensively, he was better defensively. He had an uncanny knack of reading plays and breaking them up, and he controlled the puck in his own zone adeptly. To make his defensive legend even more impressive, Kelly excelled without taking many penalties himself.

jc tremblay was a highly regarded offensive catalyst but, was considered a very strong two-way defenceman who turned his game up several notches in the playoffs.

He was tremendously responsible defensively and a great two way defenseman, often headmanning the puck to the speedy Montreal forwards

mike grant and, to a lesser extent, silas griffis, provide a strong defensive presence. and, harry mummery provides size, grit, and defensive presence. and, should we feel our defense is not strong enough, we can always sub in the 5-time cup-winning defensive defensman bob turner.

 

[papershoes]

Red Kelly is clearly the best defensemen in the series, and it could possibly be argued that Tremblay is as good as Langway (I don't think he is, but some may feel that way). You've also got Si Griffis, who is a fair notch below Wilson, but played similarly I think. But you don't have any top defensive defensemen, someone who can play against our top guns and neutralize them offensively, like a Langway. Red Kelly is a top-8 ever defensemen for sure, some argue even higher. I have him definitely after Orr, Shore, Harvey, Bourque and Potvin, and in an arguable group with Robinson and Lidstrom. But that's overall. Kelly gains his reputation as one of the best blueliners of all-time for his puckmoving abilities, and offensive prowess, not for being a good shutdown defensemen.

i agree that we don't have a pure defensive defenseman in the langway mould - but, that's not what we were looking for.

red kelly, while a fantastic offensive rearguard, is very much a two-way defenceman - some argue better defensively. he had great hockey sense and the ability to control the puck and tempo of the game.

tremblay was also considered a very strong two-way defender - ultimate hockey listed him as having the best poke-check during his time.

 

[papershoes]

Another quick point, because I'm going to go watch the Nucks' game: is Kenora's second line actually better than ours? We can analyze this later but I don't see how this team has very much offense actually past Kelly, Dionne and the top line (haha, I realize this sentence must sound kinda ridiculous, because no doubt that those five guys is a ton of offense for sure). All those guys however play on the first unit, with the exception of Dionne; and while I may be missing something, I don't think that entire line (as a unit) can be classified as similarly dangerous, or very dangerous at all.

Dionne to start off, of course has the playoff record. Yes, I'm going to mention it. Am I going to trash him for it? No, because I believe it's Pejorative Sluredly overblown out of proportion, but underneath that exaggeration lies a reality. Gillies is a decent second liner, but that'd be like us putting Provost or Lehtinen on the second line; in other words, IMO he's way better as a elite third liner (I know I mentioned that above, I'm kinda starting to blabber). Martinec is a good offensive guy, and a top-6 guy. But I don't think there is any real advantage here if matched up against our second line. For either team.

i think our second line definitely has an edge over your second line.

our second line has a nice mix of everything. the line has two highly creative, offensive, and skilled forwards (dionne, martinec). gillies brings a physical and defensive presence to compliment the line, as well as being a highly regarded corner-man to do the dirty work and battle for loose pucks around the net.

i know dionne gets slammed due to a lackluster playoff record but, he's surrounded by a 4-time stanley cup champion, and a czech league champion (certainly not on the same level as stanley cup).

in contrast, neither hawerchuk, martin, or vaive have won a stanley cup. since this is the playoffs, even with dionne, i give the edge to the thistles on this one. also, even though dionne is slammed for being a playoff no-show, he still has a higher playoff ppg then both martin and vaive.

 

[vancityluongo]

i'll try to address the remaining points in a later post - but, just wanted to address this one first. i think you are severely underrating pulford here. he is easily a solid checking lw in an all-time draft format.

also, it wasn't pulford who called himself howe's personal headache - it was gordie howe himself. take it for what its worth but, if gordie howe applauds pulfords checking / shutdown ability, i have no doubt he'll be able to shutdown jagr.

First off, thanks for the clarification on the quote. Second, neither Guy Lafleur of Jaromir Jagr will be "shutdown". I may be wrong, but to me it seems you're saying Pulford will completely neutralize Jagr? He may have done a decent job on Howe, but no player in the history of the NHL could fully stop Gordie Howe, save maybe Eddie Shore. If Pulford was merely a "headache" to Howe, he won't be that much more to Jagr, because while Howe is better than Jagr by a lot, JJ is still one of the greatest RW's ever.

Second, quotes are always exaggerations. Keith Primeau, as I've pointed out in my two previous' series, was called the most dominant player EVER (for a stretch) by Phil Esposito. Yeah, moreso than Gretzky, Orr, and Howe. Does that mean I can say Keith Primeau will undoubtably neutralize Kelly and Lach? Nope.

 

[vancityluongo]

i'm not sure i agree with the assessment of the thistles being the weakest defensive team in the draft - it seems as though the team defence of the thistles is being slightly underrated. our offensively explosive first line has two of the finest two-way players in blake and lach. this line can confidently be put out in all situations, playing against any of winnipegs lines (including going one on one with the jagr line). additionally, gillies brings the defensive awareness necessary for the second line to be used extensively as well. therefore, as a whole, i believe my top two-lines are much better suited for a two-way game then winnipegs top two.

my third line is loaded with three multiple cup winners (all three of which have 4 cups each) that are defensively responsible. all three have been instrumental as a defensive presence in numerous cup winners.

finally, though my defence may not appear to be as defensive as the jets (we certainly don't have anyone as 'defensive' as langway), they are certainly not one-way, offensive, players. kelly, though regarded as a premier offensive defensman, was no slouch in the defensive zone. his hockey sense allowed him to succeed as both a defenseman and a centre.



jc tremblay was a highly regarded offensive catalyst but, was considered a very strong two-way defenceman who turned his game up several notches in the playoffs.



mike grant and, to a lesser extent, silas griffis, provide a strong defensive presence. and, harry mummery provides size, grit, and defensive presence. and, should we feel our defense is not strong enough, we can always sub in the 5-time cup-winning defensive defensman bob turner.

Okay, first, I said Kenora is one of the weakest teams in the draft remaining defensively. You're the one who brought up that you were the weakest...maybe you were just trying to hide what you've assumed I'd say, as it is the inevitable truth?

Joking aside though...

Hmm...well, Lach and Blake are two-way, but that is a term that gets thrown out quite a lot it seems...I'd say Gillies is solid defensively too...but not the rest. I'd definitely say your lines have extraordinary offensive capacity, but you're kidding yourself if you'd use them as two-way lines. Like I said, there's no doubt they can score, but other than Gillies, none can be considered true defensive players. There aren't liabilities, (Martinec? Don't know much about him), but neither are Vaive, Hawerchuk, Jagr, or Martin, and there's is no advantage in defensive abilities, between say, Dionne, and Jagr.

Second, while cup wins are great, that isn't an argument. Look at the supporting casts that Maltby and Draper were part of. When you're scoring as many goals as the late 90's/2000's Wings, and you have Lidstrom, Chelios, and the rest of that outstanding blueline, the need for an checking line goes down. So even if Kirk Maltby wasn't on the Wings, I'd guess they'd still win those Stanley Cups.

Third, I'm not saying Kelly was weak defensively, because he wasn't one of the greatest players ever by being a one-dimensional offensive guy. However, he wasn't nearly as solid defensively as he was offensively, possibly the biggest problem with your teams defense. While they weren't liabilities, none of them had a solid defensive game. There aren't any Langway's, but guys like Tremblay aren't even stylistically like Ted Green. You've got tremendous puckmoving offensive guys, but I think you sorely lack a defensive guy to matchup with our guys.

For the Jets, Langway will be seeing a lot of Lafleur, Lach, Blake, and possibly even Kelly. Hap Day will also be seeing those guys, and possibly Dionne. Ted Green will be seeing Dionne, Martinec. These are guys we're comfortable to matchup against you're guys, because they have the abilities to shutdown you're forwards.

 

[vancityluongo]

i agree that we don't have a pure defensive defenseman in the langway mould - but, that's not what we were looking for.

red kelly, while a fantastic offensive rearguard, is very much a two-way defenceman - some argue better defensively. he had great hockey sense and the ability to control the puck and tempo of the game.

tremblay was also considered a very strong two-way defender - ultimate hockey listed him as having the best poke-check during his time.

Better defensively than he was offensively? Really? Any way to back that up?

All I've read on Red (pun intended) is he was a smart, slick puckhandling smooth skating guy. Nothing leads me to believe he was better defensively than offensively.

 

[vancityluongo]

i think our second line definitely has an edge over your second line.

our second line has a nice mix of everything. the line has two highly creative, offensive, and skilled forwards (dionne, martinec). gillies brings a physical and defensive presence to compliment the line, as well as being a highly regarded corner-man to do the dirty work and battle for loose pucks around the net.

i know dionne gets slammed due to a lackluster playoff record but, he's surrounded by a 4-time stanley cup champion, and a czech league champion (certainly not on the same level as stanley cup).

in contrast, neither hawerchuk, martin, or vaive have won a stanley cup. since this is the playoffs, even with dionne, i give the edge to the thistles on this one. also, even though dionne is slammed for being a playoff no-show, he still has a higher playoff ppg then both martin and vaive.

I think you're overrestimating the importance of cups. Yes, they're important since this is the playoffs, but if Hawerchuk had lead his Jets' teams to cups with that supporting cast, he'd be Wayne Gretzky. I'm not slamming on Dionne, because it's stupid how low he goes in these things, for his playoff record. However, I don't think you have an advantage in terms of second lines.

Hawerchuk also has solid linemates, and they're perfectly suited to him. Martin is his power winger that can finish off the plays, and also set him up at times. Vaive is the crash and bang, gritty guy to get the puck along the boards, and finish plays off. Decent defensively too. Vaive has 100 more points in a 100 less games than Gillies, and while he didn't have nearly as good of a defensive game, he also wasn't on a team with Trottier, Bossy, and Potvin. I don't know enough about Martinec, but honeslty, while Dionne could be a first line center in this draft, while he's a good defensive presence on a line (which is what you have him as, I guess), I don't see much difference between him and Vaive if they're both in a top-6 role.

While Dionne is slightly better than Hawerchuk, I think people will probably rate them around the same because of the playoffs. If we dub skill as the same for our second lines, I think ours has a lot better chemistry, giving us an advantage.

 

[vancityluongo]

Sorry for like 5 posts in a row, but I had things to do in between each post, and addressed paper's responses one at a time.

Anways, I'm also going to bring up physicality, which I've mentioned in previous series', but I think it's more of an issue here.

Kenora has Pulford whose intimidating, and Schultz, whose downright scary. Then there are guys like Draper and Gillies.

Winnipeg has Terrible Ted Green and Keith Magnuson who are pretty intimidating, but after that we have tons of grit. Vaive, Peplinski, Primeau, Corson, Day. Provost could hit. I think one thing that get overlooked about our team, is this team is gritty.

Also, the biggest thing, that I hope doesn't get overlooked amongst all the other stuff we're discussing; goaltending. I hope I don't have to convince anyone, and most people realize that Sawchuk over Holmes alone will steal us at least a couple games. A huge mistmatch at the most important position means a significant advantage for the Jets, right off the start.

Another thing, I don't want to be a hypocrite, considering everything I've said about coaching previously, but Punch Imlach IS a slight problem. We passed over him and ended up taking Demers later, because while we could've taken him, and he was a better coach, he would've killed a guy like Jagr. I'd imagine Marcel Dionne wouldn't be feeling to good after two rounds, and possibly a lackluster playoff performance thus far. I'd imagine Punch isn't/wouldn't be taking that too well. While coaching does not make much of a difference, as I've said previously, it does only if there's a chance for a major disruption. That rarely happens in the ATD, unless you've got a guy like Keenan or Imlach, getting angry at one of their players.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Lach and Blake were very, very good defensively. While Kenora doesn't have that physical presence on the top line, they have two really strong two-way forwards in Blake and Lach, who played so much hockey together. That's one of the things that makes them so effective.

Draper and Maltby are definitely credible defensive line forwards in an ATD context. I've had Maltby before, but he was sort of a bottom-of-the-barrel option for us in ATD 8. My problem with Draper and Maltby is that they just won't contribute offensively, and I want guys who can contribute offensively. (Just look at my third and fourth lines). But as far as defensive play, and checking presence goes, they're terrific. (Best bottom two lines I've had since ATD 6).

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Kelly was better defensively than offensively. If he was, he'd be one of the top three or four defencemen of all-time. But he is an excellent player in his own zone.

Is Keith Magnuson out of place in this series? This Kenora team is so fast that Magnuson could have a lot of problems out there. I love the guy's heart and toughness, but someone like Blake, who's so fast and smart, could really make Magnuson look foolish. This might be a good time to plug Gary Bergman into the line-up.

I'm not sold on Rick Martin's playoff record. I think he's better suited to second line duty, but his post-season performance is underwhelming for a guy who was such a natural goal scorer. And he doesn't contribute a lot beyond the offensive zone. If Vaive isn't scoring, he'll find another way to contribute by opening up room for his linemates with his physical play. If Martin isn't scoring, he doesn't have a lot of value.

I said from the start that I have concerns about Imlach's fit with Kenora. And I said that I thought it would catch up with Kenora last round. (I'm the only one who knows just how close it was). It will catch up with them at some point. I'm probably one of the few guys around here who has Imlach high on my list. A top 10 coach in my books. But outside of Tarasov and maybe Tikhanov, there isn't a coach in the ATD who needs his type of guys more than Imlach. Imlach would have been a perfect fit for Pittsburgh in this thing. Kenora is a polar opposite of Pittsburgh.

I've always asked this: how much of a spread is there, really, between the No. 1 goalies in this draft? Goaltending is a funny position. It's probably the hardest to get a read on. For one thing, most goalies have a crossed wire or two. For another thing, the team with the best goalie often doesn't win. I watched Ray Emery outplay Martin Brodeur in the 2007 playoffs when Ottawa knocked off New Jersey. I watched Robert Esche outplay Brodeur and Eddie Belfour in 2004. Goaltending is the most important position in the draft. To say that Sawchuk over Holmes/Chabot gives the Jets a significant advantage right off the bat would be erroneous. It's an advantage, but how much of an advantage is definitely up for debate. Goaltending is the most important position, but Kenora has a couple pretty damn good goalies.

 

[pitseleh]

I think this is a series of huge gaps at various positions in the lineup, which is probably reflected in how the GMs built their teams (sorry if I'm covering material that's already been mentioned, I only skimmed through the thread).

Advantage Kenora

First Line LW - Blake is head and shoulders a better player than Noble.
Number 1 Defenseman - Again, Kelly and Langway are at opposite ends of the #1 defensemen list in the ATD.
Second Line Center - This one is slightly more debateable, but while Hawerchuk is an ideal #2, Dionne is a #1 center on a handful of teams in the draft.

Advantage Winnipeg

Goaltending - Sawchuk vs. Holmes isn't really much of a comparison.
Second Defense Pairing - I'd say that Winnipeg has the two best second pairing defensemen.
Third Line - I see Maltby and Draper being fourth liners in an ATD personally.

So what do these advantages mean in the series?

I see Kelly adding a tremendous amount of value to Kenora's offense. Wilson was a good puck mover but he isn't elite in an ATD while Kelly is. Combined with a superior first line, Kenora should be able to generate more offense from their top line than Winnipeg, differences in matchups included. Dionne on the second line means that Kenora will have an elite offensive player that will be able to get away from the Lehtinen/Provost pairing on Winnipeg.

Winnipeg's checking line will not only do a better job defensively, but they will also score more than Kenora's third. Having a stronger second pairing works in Winnipeg's advantage as both teams have solid secondary scoring, and I see Day/Green doing a better job defensively than Griffis/Grant. Sawchuk has the potential to be a big defining factor of the series, depending on how much value you put on an elite goaltender in the draft.

 

[raleh]

First night of Chanukah tonight, boys, so I'm kinda busy.

But if this (and the other) series haven't had write ups by the end of the day I will do 'em both by the end of tomorrow.

 

[Jungosi]

I can also do them. I'm on holiday now and have too much spare time

 

[Jungosi]

And they are just starting.....

with the series but it already looks like a classic. Dazzling moves , big hits and great goaltending everything was included.

At 7:13 p.m. EST the puck dropped at Kenora Gardens , infront of a sell-out crowd which let the wall shake. Unimpressed by the crowd Jaromir Jagr soon knew how to silence them when he dangeled his way past Tremblay to score the first goal of the series. Kenora tried to gain back the momentum and started to hit the Jets whenever possible. Fired up by the crowd they soon began to test Terry Sawchuk who held his own in the remainder of the first period. Early in the second period Kelly made a beatifull pass to Lafleur. He deked out Sawchuk and tied the game. This score would stay until Rick Vaive fired a slapper past Holmes and Ullman did the same moments later. Kelly scored a late goal and almost tied it but Sawchuk saved the day.

Winnipeg wins the game 3-2 and leads the series 1-0

Boxscore
1st period
11:13 - Jaromir Jagr 1 (Ullman,Wilson)
2nd period
3:57 - Guy Lafleur 1 (Kelly)
3rd period
1:15 - Rick Vaive 1 (Hawerchuk,Green)
2:45 - Norm Ullman 1 (Jagr,Noble)
17:16 - Red Kelly 1 (Tremblay,Blake)

Every rose has it's thorn

Well , and thistles have a crapload of it. Clark Gillies was definetly a thorn in the flesh for Winnipeg. Not only that the had a goal in the game but he also devasted Jim Peplinski in a fight.

Both decided to drop 'em early and the Jets surely did not like the outcoming. The crowd went in ecstasic and so did their team. Lach , Blake and the man himself Clark Gillies scored goals in the first period. Martinec added another one with a laserbeam on a powerplay. The Jets who weren't able to get themselves going all night froze in awe when Lafleur flew past their defense to the blow-out perfect. Doug Risebrough was the only Jet left trying to score but was stoned by Hap Holmes who had of course very little to do but was sharp when needed.

Kenora wins the game 5-0 and ties the series at 1

Boxscore
1st period
7:45 - Elmer Lach 1 (Blake,Kelly)
11:36 - Toe Blake 1 (Lafleur,Lach)
13:13 - Clark Gillies 1 (Dionne,Griffis)
2nd period
7:46 - Vladimir Martinec 1 (Dionne,Jonsson) - PP
3rd period
1:57 - Guy Lafleur 2 (Kelly,Lach)

 

[Jungosi]

Entrance denied

In game 3 of the series between Winnipeg and Kenora there was one man who stood head and shoulders above everyone else on the ice. Terry Sawchuk , 4-times recipient of the Vezina Trophy kept his net clean from everything , puck or beachball , no matter what. The Thistles started the same way they ended game 2 and the Jets were soon under enormous pressure. Sawchuk and defenseman Langway were instrumental for the Jets in order to survive the onslaught. Ironicly it was a penalty to their very own Doug Risebrough that started their offence. Down a man , Jere Lethinen was able to pressure Tremblay enough to force a bad pass by him. Primeau intercepted the pass and got it to Lethinen who used his shorhanded chance. Kenora was not able to recover from that blow in time. Jaromir Jagr won a battle in the corner after a dump in by Wilson and got in up front to Ullman. The Alberta-native put the puck right below the crossbar. This goal also marked the end of any offensive effort by Winnipeg and Kenora took over again. They attacked and attacked but there was no way for them to deny Sawchuk a shut-out.

Winnipeg wins the game 2-0 and leads the series 2-1

Boxscore
1st period
scoreless
2nd period
3:36 - Jere Lethinen 1 (Primeau) - SH
17:12 - Norm Ullman 2 (Jagr,Wilson)
3rd period
scoreless

 

[Jungosi]

Winnipeg sees Red

After the loss in game 3 , the Thisles were looking for revenge. Especially Red Kelly who was very unhappy after the game did everything he could to tie the series up again. The Jets got into penalty trouble early and the Thistles unlike their last game soon converted. Red Kelly sneaked into the slot and recieved a feed from Tremblay. He faked a shot and then easily put the puck into the almost open net. The powerplay struck again when Marcel Dionne scored his first goal of the series. The Jets fought back with two goals by Martin but Red Kelly awsered the comeback with one more goal and a assist on Lafleur's third goal. Pulford settled the final score of 5-2 with the empty-net goal.

Kenora wins the game 5-2 and ties the series at 2

Boxscore
1st period
6:56 - Red Kelly 2 (Tremblay,Blake) - PP
10:41 - Marcel Dionne 1 (Martinec,Jonsson) - PP
2nd period
12:22 - Rick Martin 1 (Hawerchuk,Green)
15:47 - Rick Martin 2 (Hawerchuk)
16:44 - Red Kelly 3 (Lach)
3rd period
8:19 - Guy Lafleur 3 (Kelly,Tremblay)
19:02 - Bob Pulford (unassisted)