ATD #10, Bob Cole Quarterfinals. Toronto Malboros (5) vs Detroit Red Wings (4)

[MXD]

The other team of Tahrahntah vs. ... not the other team of Detroit.

Toronto Marlboros
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GM: Leopold Stotch
Coach: Harry Sinden

Dickie Moore - Milt Schmidt (A) - Gordie Drillon
Markus Naslund - Ron Francis (C) - Tim Kerr
Kirk Muller - Troy Murray - Frank Finnigan
Thomas Steen - Bobby Carpenter - Daniel Alfredsson
extras: Alexei Kovalev, Louis Berlinquette

Doug Harvey (A) - Gary Suter
Phil Housley - Tom Johnson
Steve Smith - Bill Barilko
extra: Hobey Baker

George Hainsworth
J-S Giguere

Power play units:
PP1: Moore - Schmidt - Kerr - Harvey - Housley
PP2: Drillon - Francis - Alfredsson - Suter - Johnson

Penalty killing units:
PK1: Schmidt - Finnigan - D - D
PK2: Muller - Murray - D - D

VS

Detroit Red Wings
​

​

GM: spitfire11
Coach: Scotty Bowman

Sid Abel (A) - Steve Yzerman (C) - Danny Gare
Herbie Lewis - Marty Barry - Larry Aurie
Henrik Zetterberg - Igor Larionov - Harry Watson (A)
Marty Pavelich - Metro Prystai - Hec Kilrea
extras: Carson Cooper, Tomas Holmstrom

Chris Chelios - Marcel Pronovost
Bob Goldham - Reed Larson
Leo Reise Jr - Tom Anderson
extra: Jamie Macoun

Alex Connell
Mike Vernon

Power play units:
PP1: Sid Abel - Igor Larionov - Steve Yzerman - Reed Larson - Tom Anderson
PP2: Herbie Lewis - Marty Barry - Larry Aurie - Marcel Pronovost - Chris Chelios

Penalty killing units:
PK1: Steve Yzerman - Metro Prystai - Bob Goldham - Chris Chelios
PK2: Herbie Lewis - Henrik Zetterberg - Leo Reise Jr - Marcel Pronovost

Click to read more...

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

This is going to be interesting. I think these are two teams that you can't realistically match lines to gain anything more than a marginal advantage, moreso than any other team in the division. I see, on both sides, four forward lines that IMO can realistically play against any line. Definitely going to be an interesting and close match-up.

I'm not sure how much discussion I'll get in, as the powers that be have decided to hit me hardest just as this semester is coming to a close, but I'll try my best to get some stuff in. I do encourage, though, all outside opinions and comments on this series. I'll post my roster in a bit, but if you can't wait till then, it's on the first page of the assassination thread, the roster thread and the division rivalry thread. Oh yeah, and good luck to spit. Should be a gooder.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Why Toronto Will Win

[1] RW offense. Simply put, Detroit lacks an elite scorer on the right wing. To quantify that, the top four RWs have combined for just four seasons as a top ten scorers (versus 10 seasons for Toronto). Gare had a great shot but was inconsistent and wasn’t much of a playmaker; Aurie and Kilrea had blazing speed but simply didn’t rack up enough points to be considered elite offensive players. In contrast, Kerr’s size, strength & PP effectiveness, Drillon’s elite goal-scoring ability (despite a lack of speed & defensive play) and Alfredsson’s complete game gives Toronto a big advantage at RW.

[2] Second defense pair. It looks like both teams had a similar idea (pairing a scorer with a shutdown blueliner) but the Leafs definitely have the better personnel. I like Goldham, the underrated, rugged defender from the 1950s dynasty, but Johnson (1959 Norris winner and three-time finalist) is clearly the better player (though probably not quite as rough). Housley clearly gets the edge over Larson offensively (though, again, Detroit has the tougher defenseman of the two, and Larson was less of a liability in the defensive zone) and, despite his shortcomings, Housley can be a gamebreaker at times.


Why Detroit Will Win

[1] Coaching. It’s probably safe to say that Bowman is the consensus greatest coach in hockey history – he’s tough on his players but they always respect him and know that he can lead them to greatness; he finds a good mix between defensive strategies and letting his stars use their talents; and he can bring out the best in young players while getting big-ego veterans to work together. In other words Bowman has all the tools needed to get the best out of the Red Wings roster. In contrast, Sinden is a solid coach but I think that a lot of his reputation at the NHL level is due to timing (how much did Sinden really cause the Bruins’ revival and first SC win in three decades, and how much of that was Orr/Esposito). As coach, he gets a lot of credit for the Summit Series victory, but, as coach, I think he deserves criticism for underestimating the Soviets.

[2] LW/RW health/consistency. All of Toronto’s top four wings have pretty serious question marks. Kerr may have been a 55-goal power forward in his prime but he often battled injuries and was only healthy for 7 seasons. We all know about Naslund – will he be the Hart/Art Ross finalist or the indifferent 3rd liner? Dickie Moore had two years as an elite Lindsay/Kharlamov calibre LW… then just two more years as a great scorer. I know Moore had to share ice time with a lot of great players but he spent a long time at the NHL level without being the great scorer the Leafs need to counteract Abel’s scoring ability. Drillon, despite being a great scorer, was named the worst defensive player of the 1940s and was actually benched during the final four games of the Leafs’ historic victory in 1942 (coming back from a 3-0 series deficit) allegedly due to his indifferent play. Overall Toronto’s wingers could be among the very best or worst in the draft… it’s just a question of which version of the wingers show up during the course of the seven games.

 

[seventieslord]

Good analysis, H.O. Just one thing - Drillon was a lazy non-backchecker, but, where did you read he was not fast? Are you confusing him with Dye, Denneny, and Stewart, 3 other great scorers from before WW2 who were slow and bad defensively?

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Apps was pretty damn fast, so I don't think Drillon could've been too slow. Lazy, oh yeah, but I don't think speed's a big issue. The talent makes up for it, anyways.

I definitely see the wingers being a question mark of sorts, but I think I've put them in situations where they're in great positions to succeed. Moore's getting big minutes with an elite center and an incredible talented winger, not to mention playing with two pretty talented offensive defenseman(including one of the best all-time). Drillon's playing with two very adept two-way forwards as well as two pretty talented defensive defensemen(including the best ever). Naslund is playing on a line that, in a lot of ways, is very similar to the WCE, except just a lot better. Kerr's playing with two very skilled players, and will see some playing time with two of the top-10 at their respective positions not only on the PP, but a little at ES(maybe Francis too if needed). Not much one can do about injuries, but the very consistant Daniel Alfredsson can step in if needed.

Also, I think it'll be interesting to see Dickie Moore play with his idol on the opposite wing. During my research I've found that Gordie was actually quite the popular player in his day, and was looked up to by a lot of kids.

 

[nik jr]

toronto has an advantage in net.

both teams have very strong top pairings. pronovost may give DRW an advantage, but chelios' undisciplined penalties make the gap smaller.

i expect harvey to shut down whoever he faces, especially if he's out with schmidt, but OTOH, DRW have home ice.

the matchup of 1st units would be amazing to see. chelios and pronovost vs moore and schmidt. harvey vs yzerman. gare vs moore. schmidt vs yzerman.


i think marty barry is one of the most under-appreciated stars in NHL history.

he was a very close 2nd to nels stewart in total scoring in the '30s (adjusting for average scoring, barry would be 1st), ahead of multiple art ross winners such as busher jackson, charlie conacher and bill cook.

he was also 1st in playoff scoring in the '30s.


DRW are overall a clean disciplined team, but chelios will need to play under control. toronto should have a great PP. kerr was dominant in the slot (i think he still holds the record for PP goals in a season), drillon was an incredible shooter, harvey and housley were both great QB's.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

DRW are overall a clean disciplined team, but chelios will need to play under control. toronto should have a great PP. kerr was dominant in the slot (i think he still holds the record for PP goals in a season), drillon was an incredible shooter, harvey and housley were both great QB's.

He still does with 34, I believe, although Teemu Selanne is certainly threatening that right now.

 

[nik jr]

i should have mentioned that chelios is an elite PKer and DRW's best. so chelios in the penalty box is especially bad.

 

[Spitfire11]

toronto has an advantage in net.

Aren't they fairly even? Hainsworth has a 1.93 playoff GAA and Connell has a 1.19 playoff GAA, I think they both have 2 Stanley Cups. And neither played on considerably stronger teams than the other.

 

[pappyline]

I think these teams are very even. I know I was critical of Leo's team in an earlier thread but the more I study it the more I like it & I ranked the Marlies second in the division.

Both teams have similiar type forwards. I give a slight edge to Marlies because I like the Marlies 1st line a little more. Moore & Schmidt is about the best combination of tough gritty skilled players on any 1st line in the draft. IMO, Schmidt is under-rated in these drafts.I think it was Red storey that said give me 5 Milt Schmidts & I would beat anybody.

ON D Harvey is the man. Detroit has a great top 3 but Harvey can control the game & can put up big minutes. Still a top 3 of Chelios/Pronovost/Goldham evens things out. Call D a draw.

Goaltending is also too close to call.

As far as coaching goes-Well Detroit has Bowman.

Two great teams & a tough series to call.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I think these teams are very even. I know I was critical of Leo's team in an earlier thread but the more I study it the more I like it & I ranked the Marlies second in the division.

Both teams have similiar type forwards. I give a slight edge to Marlies because I like the Marlies 1st line a little more. Moore & Schmidt is about the best combination of tough gritty skilled players on any 1st line in the draft. IMO, Schmidt is under-rated in these drafts.I think it was Red storey that said give me 5 Milt Schmidts & I would beat anybody.

ON D Harvey is the man. Detroit has a great top 3 but Harvey can control the game & can put up big minutes. Still a top 3 of Chelios/Pronovost/Goldham evens things out. Call D a draw.

Goaltending is also too close to call.

As far as coaching goes-Well Detroit has Bowman.

Two great teams & a tough series to call.

And your grandmother in net, to finish the quote. Thanks for the kind words, and also getting the team name right. Was kind of shocked that HO confused me with LL.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Aren't they fairly even? Hainsworth has a 1.93 playoff GAA and Connell has a 1.19 playoff GAA, I think they both have 2 Stanley Cups. And neither played on considerably stronger teams than the other.

Hainsworth did play more than twice the amount of games as Connell, though. And I think people factor in the 3 Vezina's and the 22-SO season. I definitely have Hainsworth over Connell, but then again I love Hainsworth and probably have one of the highest opinions of him on these boards.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

And your grandmother in net, to finish the quote. Thanks for the kind words, and also getting the team name right. Was kind of shocked that HO confused me with LL.

Yep, I made two mistakes in my post. I meant Marlboros, not Leafs, when referring to your team obviously.

I think I confused Drillon with other pre-WWII poor defensive forwards who were also slow. To be clear I haven't read anything to indicate that Drillon was a slow/awkward skater. Sorry about that.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Last series to comment on in the first round...

I'm not concerned about Drillon's playoff record. So he had a bad series. Everybody has one. Well, maybe not Gretzky. But I think we put too much emphasis on that one series for Drillon. Bottom line for Drillon is that 41 points in 50 games is impressive for that time. Back-to-back seven-goal playoffs is even more impressive. There's more good (and I'll say it's very, very good) for Drillon in the playoffs than bad.

Spit deserves applause for the Red Wing alumni team he built. It's better than I thought it would be. This is a very deep team for offensive forwards. They can trot out three lines that can score. Am I sold on Gare as a first line forward? No. But he compliments that line well. He gives them a gunner. And all three players on that line bring a good two-way game (Abel is better than good; Yzerman in his final years was terrific defensively). That line can play against any line on the Marlboros.

And that fits a Bowman trait. He was never a big fan of line matching. He had no problem throwing a first line against an opponent's first line.

Detroit can also get offence from their defence. Reise and Goldham won't get them much. But Larson and Anderson are dangerous offensively, Chelios is a tremendous weapon, and Pronovost had two seasons with more than 30 points in the O6 era - impressive for defencemen.

I don't know if Toronto will be worried about line-matching either. Not with Schmidt and Francis forming the 1-2 punch. And frankly, I'm a little underwhelmed about the defensive strength of their third line, too, but I think the Marlies will be leaning on their third line a little less than other teams.

I'm guessing we'll see a lot of the Chelios tandem matched up against the Schmidt line. Should be fun to watch. Two outstanding all-round defencemen against two of the best all-round players at their respective positions in Moore and Schmidt.

I'm not concerned about Toronto's wingers. Touched on Drillon earlier. Moore's playoff record is magnificent. From 54-62, he was over a point-per-game. Even in his last post-season with expansion St. Louis, he led the Blues in scoring as the Blues reached the Cup final. (A little dubious reaching the final, mind you, but still, 37-year-old Dickie Moore led a Cup finalist in scoring after missing three seasons). When the game was on the line, Moore wanted to be the guy.

I'd be limiting Housley's ice time. Against a team that can trot out three scoring lines, Housley could leave his teammates vulnerable. He's partnered with the great Tom Johnson, but it could be a source for concern. Toronto does have a third pairing that is very difficult to play against, so you shouldn't see a lot of Housley out there against the Yzerman or Barry lines.

I'll give the edge in net to Toronto. I'm skeptical about some of Hainsworth's accomplishments from 27 to 29, but I have no doubts about what he did after 29. A lot of impressive accomplishments in there.

But I think Detroit's edge behind the bench is significantly larger than Toronto's edge in net.

Should be a good series, and it should be really fun to watch the Chelios tandem match up against the Schmidt line.

 

[seventieslord]

Good analysis. I'm still not sure about Gare on a 1st line though. I think it's being really generous to say that he gives the line a gunner. Goal-scoring is what Gare does best, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a distant 3rd on that line in terms of goal-scoring ability.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Thanks for the review GBC. I'd just like to comment on a few things you pointed out.

Re: Drilon-I think you're dead on. A lot is made about that series, but I agree it's overplayed. Drillon obviously wasn't having a good series at all, but I think a lot of that was that his style didn't fit(that what he said Hap Day told him). You can definitely take that as a criticism, but this also isn't the O6 where his lazy backchecking is as big of a factor. I'm not worried about that aspect, not with Dickie Moore out there, not with Milt Schmidt out there and especially not with Doug Harvey out there. Also, you're absolutely correct in saying there's more good than bad regarding him come playoff time. He retired as the NHL's all-time leading playoff scorer, which was broken a few years later by the Rocket. That's pretty impressive, especially considering other stars from that era(Apps, Cowley, Bentley, Boucher, Schmidt, Cook, Barry) were behind him, many of them not even equalling his total despite playing many more games. I know a lot of them weren't pure goal scorers, or that great of goal scorers at all, but you gotta give it to him for putting up some impressive stats amongst these greats.

Re: Housley-Yep, Phil's not gonna see a lot of ES time this series. Tom Johnson might get joined by his old buddy a fair bit in this series, and Suter too. Steve Smith or Bill Barilko may even make the odd appearance. Phil will get some icetime, of course, but it will definitely be reduced. At home, if we get our first line out there against some of their depth lines, he may even make an appearance with Harvey. Risky, I know, as they can all score, which is why it wouldn't happen often. But in the right scenario I think it could work. Good chance when he goes, Ronnie Franchise might go right wing with Schmidt and Moore. I don't think Ronnie played right wing much, if at all, but he did play some left with the Penguins, and there's no doubt in my mind he could be effective on the right side. Just an amazingly smart player.

Re: Third line-Yeah, they won't overwhelm you defensively, but they're all pretty solid in their own end. And that's all I want. I don't want a checking line that will take away icetime from the top six, so I just wanted some solid defensive guys(although I wasn't going to say no to the elite boys, but they didn't really fall). I also wanted some offensive ability so there's no mismatch, and these guys can score a goal or two. For what I want, I think they'll do great.


Re :First line match-up-I like building a first line that can go up against the other teams' first line, and it will come in handy here. Although that first unit is exceptional, I like my chances. Yzerman did play great defensively under Bowman, but that's also when the 100 point seasons disappeared. He came close, but there definitely was a drop. Also, I like Milt Schmidt in a defensive role over him. With Harvey and Suter out there, I'm also confident this line can contain this top unit, which is key if I want to win this thing. Lastly, I think Drillon could useful here. Not in a defensive role, but offensively. Don't get me wrong, these boys are smart defensively, but I think his net presence against Chelios could lead to Chelli taking the odd undisciplined penalty, and hopefully get him off his game a little. With my powerplay(I don't think I'm wrong in saying that top unit is one of the best in the draft), I think that could be a big advantage.

 

[Spitfire11]

Good analysis. I'm still not sure about Gare on a 1st line though. I think it's being really generous to say that he gives the line a gunner. Goal-scoring is what Gare does best, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a distant 3rd on that line in terms of goal-scoring ability.

He brings a strong defensive presence which is a big factor when my RW has to line up against Moore. Obviously his offense is the weakest on the line when he's teamed with Yzerman and Abel. Gare's no Bossy but I think he's a good enough scorer to bury his chances when he gets them, and he should get a decent amount when he's with two great playmakers.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I should also note that on my second PP unit it's not just Alfie out there, he and Naslund will share the spot somewhat. If one of them is the hot hand that night or is clearly playing better on that powerplay unit, then they'll take over. Personally I expect it to be Naslund, but Alfie's no slouch, either.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Game 1: Octopi Fly as Wings Win Game One

The Detroit Red Wings won the first game of this best of seven series in convincing fashion, knocking off the Toronto Malboros 5-2 at the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit. Things seemed to click from the start for the Wings, who notched 2 goals before the first period had even reached its halfway point. Steve Yzerman would open the scoring wiring a centring pass right over the right shoulder of George Hainsworth, and 5 minutes later it would be Marty Berry scoring his first of the playoffs when he was sent in on a breakway by Chris Chelios.

The Malboros would get one back early in the second period when the 4th line came over the boards and gave them their strongest shift of the period. It would be Thomas Steen who eventually put in the goal that would cut the Detroit lead in half, however temporarily. Toronto was unable to garner much in the way of momentum the rest of the period, as the Wings were able to counterattack almost immediately after the Toronto goal. Igor Larianov would score with 8 minutes left in the frame, and Chris Chelios would get his 2nd point of the night when he scored on a point shot to put the Wings up 4-1.

While Doug Harvey would score early in the 3rd for Toronto, the Malboros would look weak the rest of the way. The Wings would notch an empty netter later to round out the scoring,

Final 5-2 Detroit

Wings Lead Series 1-0

*btw, writeups will be intermittment, but will be up by end of the night.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Motor City Mania - Wings up Two

The Detroit Red Wings put themselves in the best possible position heading to Toronto, by eking out a 2-1 overtime win over the Toronto Malboros in Detroit. It was a goalie's duel from the start and Hainsworth and Connell stood on their heads virtually all night long. It would be the Malboros who would open the scoring on a goal by Doug Harvey who continued his stellar play from Game 1. This goal, midway through the second, would stand for almost the remainder of the game, but Danny Gare was able to tie the game with the extra attacked on late in the third period to send the game into overtime. The Joe was rocking with only one goal separating them from a huge 2-0 series lead, and they wouldn't have to wait long to get it. Just 3 minutes into the extra frame Henrik Zetterberg streaked down the wing and snapped a shot past Hainsworth to give the Wings a huge win, and an even bigger series lead.

Final: 2-1 Detroit

Wings lead series 2-0

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Malboros Get Back on Track with Game 3 Win

After dropping back to back games in Detroit, the Toronto Malboros were in desperate need of a win to stay in this best of seven series. Well, they got it in a big way with a 4-0 win over the Detroit Red Wings. The third line got things going in a big way, scoring 2 goals in the first period alone. The first by Frank Finnigan, put the Malboros up 1-0 just 4 minutes into the game, and on the very next shift for the 3rd line, Kirk Muller would make it 2-0. After a listless 2nd period on both sides, the 3rd period became the Doug Harvey show. On top of providing excellent defense by blocking 3 shots, Harvey would add a goal on the powerplay, and an assist later on a Dickie Moore goal. This would put the Malboros up by a score of 4-0, and that's how this one ended.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Update - will have these posted within the 48 hour deadline (namely tomorrow evening) but won't be able to get them done. Have some office work to get done tonight. Apologies.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Malboros Tie It Up

The Toronto Malboros tied up their best of seven quarter-final with a 3-2 win over the Detroit Red Wings last night, led by the exploits of Milt Schmidt who notched a hat-trick. Things would start out rather ominously for the Malboros when the Wings would go up 2-0 through the first frame. Metro Prystai would give the 4th line a lift by redirecting a point shot into the net to open the scoring, and 10 minutes later, Danny Gare would intercept a bad pass and break in down the wing to put Detroit up 2-0. After that it was all Milt Schmidt. He would score his first of three midway through the 2nd, and before the period was out he had tied the game with his 2nd of the night, sending the game into the final period all square at 2 goals apiece. After the goalies withstood 15 minutes of back and forth action in the 3rd, Toronto would send the crowd home happy when Doug Harveys point shot rebounded off Connell, Schmidt would be in the right place at the right time, putting the game winner over the blocker of the Wings goalie and tying the series.

Final: 3-2 Toronto

Series Tied 2-2

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Malboros Head Home with Chance to Clinch

After going down three games to two, there was talk about whether the Malboros could get back into this series, they did so in a convincing way in Games 3 and 4 in Toronto, and continued this trend in Detroit last night eking out a 4-3 overtime win against Detroit at the Joe Louis Arena last night. Marcel Pronovost would put the Wings up 1-0 at the midway point of the first, but the Marlboros answered right back when Tim Kerr set up Ron Francis to tie the game at one. Toronto would extend their lead when Bill Barilko scored his first of the playoffs, and putting his team up by a goal. But this back and forth game wasn't going to give any team much breathing room, and Igor Larianov would tie the game up 5 minutes into period number 2. Wings fans would get even more to cheer about when Steve Yzerman scored with seconds remaining in the 2nd, sending the Wings to the lead with just 20 minutes to play. Despite being on home ice, the Wings couldn't muster anything in the final frame. It was all Toronto from buzzer to buzzer in the final frame, and for awhile it looked like Connell could keep the Wings in it. Doug Harvey would set up a Housley point shot with 6 minutes remaining to tie the game, and the crowd got ready for overtime, but it never game, with 30 seconds remaining, Milt Schmidt scored on a wrap around to give the Malboros their 3rd straight win.

Final: 4-3 Toronto
Toronto leads series 3-2

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Wings Rout Malboros in Game 6 Shocker
The Toronto Malboros thought they were home for good, with the fans expecting a series win on home ice in Game 6, but it was not to be...at all. The Red Wings came in and dominated for virtually the entire 60 minutes, routing the Malboros 5-1 in Game 6. The Wings would be up 3-0 by the end of the first, on goals by Yzerman, Berry and Larry Aurie. The Malboros weren't able to regain momentum as they had in other games in this series, and within minutes of the 2nd beginning on a goal by Henrik Zetterberg. From this point on the Wings were able to put it on cruise control and were happy to fire the puck in and around the boards once they crossed centre ice. Bobby Carpenter would score what would amount to nothing more than a token goal midway through the 3rd, but the four goal lead was regained by Detroit when Sid Abel scored on a centring pass from Steve Yzerman. Malboros fans were left to ponder whether their team had another big road in them, or whether the opportunity their team had just blown would come back to haunt them.

Final 5-1 Detroit
Series Tied 3-3