At what point would you fire DJ Smith?

When do you fire DJ Smith?


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    141

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,370
8,176
Victoria
Oh I've told the organization how I feel with my wallet. I may be a west coast fan but I've spent a lot over 20 years going to games and buying memorabilia.

But hey you obviously feel the need to relentlessly defend a man who makes $1M as tank commander for some reasoning of "team doesn't owe fans anything" mindset.

If all my customers told me my company's product was garbage, and that I was doing a bad job, and the company was hemerging money I wouldn't be like, I don't owe you anything! You aren't a real customer! Now... how can I make a profit :huh:.

The Sens need to cater to a larger audience. They need to put out a better on ice product. Then they'll possibly get out of the red despite league minimum cap. They aren't different than any other business and their executives who get all the credit or all the blame depending how things go.

We’ve gone off the rails here. I’m not suggesting you stop posting in here, you suggested that and seemed genuinely upset in your post to me. I responded a lot harder than I should have, my apologies for that. I don’t agree with many folk in here in many things, but I don’t want to make people to feel unwelcome.

I can be tenacious in debate, if not unruly.

As for the original point; I don’t really care about the owner, or even the manager, much at all. I like the team the manager has assembled, and in general I argue moderate and patient positions, sometimes because I naturally push back on negativity because it’s my favourite team, but mostly because I really like what I’m seeing grow from the ashes (slowly obviously) and want to see it through.

To that point, when I say that the organization doesn’t owe the fans anything beyond a game on the ice, I mean it in a fundamental relationship manner. I’m not putting the team on a pedestal, I’m defining the fundamental premise of he relationship. Sure, the team and league LOVE the emotional attachment of fans, foster it, and play a ton of lip service to it, because it makes them a ton of money. But make no mistake, they are not beholden to it, and will move away from it when ever it suits them. Bluntly put, the team doesn’t actually owe the fans anything, it’s a business relationship that the team leverages to their advantage. They may harm that relationship at times, but it’s well within their wheel house to do so, and sometimes it’s necessary (like trading away star players to start a rebuild).

Fans who feel owed put themselves at an emotional disadvantage in the relationship, and allow themselves to easily become ‘victims’ of the teams behaviour.

That’s not to say that fans can’t be angry, but if you feel owed and are expecting recompense, or to be ‘made whole’ at some point, it’s simply not going to happen. At best the team will deliver platitudes with perhaps new people in place, and it will all be to scratch us behind the ears to calm us down, so that they can once again separate us from our money.

Once you get to a place where the team can’t emotionally harm you, as in taking responsibility for your fandom, then you are free to enjoy what you want, be emotionally agile, and focus on points of interest instead of getting bogged down by a bunch of entertainment drama that is so far out of our control.

Your post is written almost like it’s from the perspective of someone in a Sens boardroom as a plan to get more cash out of Sens fans, not what a bunch of fans should be expecting from the organization. You are expecting behaviour ‘company outwards’ from a ‘customer inwards’ perspective. You have already clearly lost the relationship power struggle based on your examples. NHL hockey isn’t like your company. What you call a garbage product is still generating enough money to sustain itself at the moment. Massive TV deals paying the team regardless of how you feel, and thousands of fans still going to games regardless of what you feel they are all ‘owed’.

Your perspective is more like someone in a sandwich board outside Walmart yelling at customers going in because you feels Walmart owes its customers better produce. In the end they don’t owe you any of that. Rather than pining for better produce at Walmart, and getting worked up about an issue that you can’t control, you could take back control of yourself. You can start buying your produce from a farmers market, and stick to buying things from Walmart that they are good at providing, like candy and cheap appliances or something.

(Warning: generalized ‘you’ coming up)

The level of anger that gets displayed in here is a shame, mostly because the only person in control of it all is the you. When it comes to sports entertainment, as in many areas of life, no one is going to fix it for you, and no one else is responsible for making you upset, it’s just you, you’re doing it, and you can fix it.

Anyways, long text blab that no one will read, but it feels better to write it out. This place has become so needlessly and pointlessly toxic. So much air time and focus on the warts of the team, and so little on the bright areas. Such is human nature I suppose, but it’s always a shame nonetheless.
 
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Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,370
8,176
Victoria
Man, this veers closer to Stockholm Syndrome every single day.

That’s very insulting. I find it a shame because it is me that’s free, and you who is in an emotional cage of your own making.

I give no shits about the shitty elements of the team, and why would I? I’m only here for the entertainment.
 

KingAlfie11

Registered User
Nov 3, 2021
1,674
1,790
We’ve gone off the rails here. I’m not suggesting you stop posting in here, you suggested that and seemed genuinely upset in your post to me. I responded a lot harder than I should have, my apologies for that. I don’t agree with many folk in here in many things, but I don’t want to make people to feel unwelcome.

I can be tenacious in debate, if not unruly.

As for the original point; I don’t really care about the owner, or even the manager, much at all. I like the team the manager has assembled, and in general I argue moderate and patient positions, sometimes because I naturally push back on negativity because it’s my favourite team, but mostly because I really like what I’m season grow from the ashes (slowly obviously) and want to see it through.

To that point, when I say that the organization doesn’t owe the fans anything beyond a game on the ice, I mean it in a fundamental relationship manner. I’m not putting the team on a pedestal, I’m defining the fundamental premise of he relationship. Sure, the team and league LOVE the emotional attachment of fans, foster to it, and play a ton of lip service to it, because it makes them a ton of money. But make no mistake, they are not beholden to it, and will move away from it when ever it suits them. But bluntly, the team doesn’t actually owe the fans anything, it’s a business relationship that the team leverages to their advantage. They may harm that relationship at times, but we’ll within their wheel house to do so, and sometimes it’s necessary (like trading away star players to start a rebuild).

Fans who feel owed put themselves at an emotional disadvantage in the relationship, and allow themselves to easily become ‘victims’ of the teams behaviour.

That’s not to say that fans can’t be angry, but if you feel owed and expecting recompense or to be made whole at some point, it’s simply not going to happen. At best the team will deliver platitudes with perhaps new people in place, and it will all be to scratch us behind the ears to come us down so that they can once again separate us from our money.

Once you get to a place where the team can’t emotionally harm you, as in taking responsibility for your fandom, the. You are free to enjoy what you want, be emotionally agile, and focus on points of interest instead of getting bogged down by a bunch of entertainment drama that is so far out of our control.

Your post is written almost like it’s from the perspective of someone in a Sens boardroom as a plan to get more cash out of Sens fans, not what a bunch of fans should be expecting from the organization. You are expecting behaviour company out wards from a customer perspective inward. You have already clearly lost the relationship power struggle based on your examples. NHL hockey isn’t like your company. What you call a garbage product is still generating enough loamy to sustain itself at the moment. Massive TV deals paying the team regardless of how you feel, and thousands of fans still going to games regardless of what you feel they are all owed.

Your perspective is more like someone in a sand which board outside Walmarts yelling at customers going in because you feels Walmart owes its customers better produce. In the end they don’t owe you any of that. Rather than pining for better produce at Walmart, and getting worked up about an issues that you can’t control, you could take back control of yourself. You can start buying your produce from a farmers market, and stick to buying things from Walmart that they are good at providing, like candy and cheap appliances or something.

(Warning: generalized ‘you’ coming up)

The level of anger that gets displayed in here is a shame, mostly because the only person in control of it all is the you. When it comes to sports entertainment, as in many areas of life, no one is going to fix it for you, and no one else is responsible for making you upset, it’s just you, you’re doing it, and you can fix it.

Anyways, long text blab that no one will read, but it feels better to write it out. This place has become so needlessly and pointlessly toxic. So much air time and focus on the warts of the team, and so little on the bright areas. Such is human nature I suppose, but it’s always a shame nonetheless.
I read all of your post Tray!! You're one of my favorite poster here!
 

YouGotAStuGoing

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
19,355
4,932
Ottawa, Ontario
That’s very insulting. I find it a shame because it is me that’s free, and you who is in an emotional cage of your own making.

I give no shits about the shitty elements of the team, and why would I? I’m only here for the entertainment.
I'm in no cages, emotional or otherwise. This is a case of perspective: we're both looking at the same broken thing, but some posters — yourself included — are trying to convince others (or maybe yourselves?) that it's not as broken as it appears. It's a far more reasonable position to say "Hey, this is wrong and I hold this thing I love to a higher standard," than it is to say "Well, actually, your standards are just too high."
 
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Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,370
8,176
Victoria
I'm in no cages, emotional or otherwise. This is a case of perspective: we're both looking at the same broken thing, but some posters — yourself included — are trying to convince others (or maybe yourselves?) that it's not as broken as it appears. It's a far more reasonable position to say "Hey, this is wrong and I hold this thing I love to a higher standard," than it is to say "Well, actually, your standards are just too high."

Everyone who is emotionally charged by the whims of the local hockey team’s owner or manager is on an emotional leash. They yank, you respond. There is an inherent power imbalance in that relationship which is the root cause of the bitterness, and sense of powerlessness and futility in here.

I’m not trying to convince anyone that there aren’t problems. I’m commenting on the futility of focusing on problems instead of the bright spots when the subject is sports entertainment and we are nothing but spectators. You make a clear choice to be bitter about things beyond your control. Choosing not to be harnessed by something is not the same as accepting it, far from it.

Holding something to a higher standard is a noble endeavour, but sadly it’s once again the root of where you have gone astray. You aren’t holding the organization to a higher standard, because you have no way of making that organization accountable to you or your standard. The only thing you control is your own physical and emotional exposure to the organization.

In essence, they wont care if you leave, it wont harm them, the only positive outcome is within yourself. In the end it’s always best to either change or leave a toxic relationship, not wait for the other party to caretake you and make it better. You will never be the top priority no matter what is said. In this case your money is the top priority, so perhaps make sure you’re buying something that brings you joy.

The thing that should be held to a higher standard is yourself. People shouldn’t be putting themselves in a position to be an emotional hostage of an organization that isn’t beholden to that relationship. The anger and bitterness of the smaller but vocal group of the fanbase is definitely heard, but mostly ignored by every organization. Even the great billboard and Melnyk Out movement in the end achieved very little beyond making noise. The owner didn’t even have to deal with those people, he simply hosted a private meeting with business interests to lay out his plan and circumvented the entire group.

I am not in the business of convincing anyone of anything here, but you should note that there are lots of fans that enjoy watching the team play, and while it’s convenient for bitter fans to insult and downplay them as sheep or clueless to what’s really going on, most of us actually simply brush our shoulders off and enjoy it for what it is, and chose not to get bent out of shape by what it isn’t. Call me what you will, but it comes across mostly as petty jealousy at people enjoying themselves watching something that is eating others up inside.
 

YouGotAStuGoing

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
19,355
4,932
Ottawa, Ontario
This is a long post that makes several incorrect assumptions, included among which are:
  • I don't like when people enjoy the team. I'm glad people find things to enjoy about it! Currently, I don't, and last I checked a message board is a place to share opinions, not one to police them.

  • That I post here thinking anything will change as a result. I don't. Would it be nice? Sure. But I'm not that important and I don't pretend to be. I'm just a fan venting my frustrations and hoping for a better day.

  • That I care so deeply that I'm an "emotional hostage" — this seems to be your theme today, I-T, and it couldn't be further from the truth. Fans like me are being pushed closer and closer to apathy by the day. That's a problem, as I'm sure you'd agree. This isn't a big enough market to be able to overcome a segment of the fanbase disengaging.
Enjoy the team for what it is if that gives you joy. Nobody can take that away from you but you, so it's interesting that you're so eager to accuse others of trying to steal the joy from others when that's just as much of a personal decision as deciding not to be pleased with the state of things.

I think I've invested about as much into this conversation as I care to do. Have a nice day!
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,370
8,176
Victoria
This is a long post that makes several incorrect assumptions, included among which are:
  • I don't like when people enjoy the team. I'm glad people find things to enjoy about it! Currently, I don't, and last I checked a message board is a place to share opinions, not one to police them.

  • That I post here thinking anything will change as a result. I don't. Would it be nice? Sure. But I'm not that important and I don't pretend to be. I'm just a fan venting my frustrations and hoping for a better day.

  • That I care so deeply that I'm an "emotional hostage" — this seems to be your theme today, I-T, and it couldn't be further from the truth. Fans like me are being pushed closer and closer to apathy by the day. That's a problem, as I'm sure you'd agree. This isn't a big enough market to be able to overcome a segment of the fanbase disengaging.
Enjoy the team for what it is if that gives you joy. Nobody can take that away from you but you, so it's interesting that you're so eager to accuse others of trying to steal the joy from others when that's just as much of a personal decision as deciding not to be pleased with the state of things.

I think I've invested about as much into this conversation as I care to do. Have a nice day!

Personally I don’t think anything I have said today applies much to you personally, at least insofar as I ‘know’ you. You did respond so I have engaged in debate on the subject with you.

I feel like your post were about the subject generally, though did make some specific jabs lol, as in we’re discussing and debating a topic. I suppose changing all the “yous” to “ones” would be helpful. I enjoy you and your posts here, my apologies for offending you. I do enjoy heated debate at times and it’s easy for me to be a bit loose with the rules when I’m not super emotionally invested but enjoying the banter. Speaking off the cuff without thinking would be my super power if you were to ask my wife lol.

Anyways cheers man, have a better day :)
 
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