Prospect Info: At 9th Overall the Detroit Red Wings Select Michael Rasmussen

WingsMJN2965

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Reinhart and Larkin are identical statistically, except Larkin has a better assists per game and Reinhart has a better goal per game. I think Reinhart has a much higher ceiling though.

But when it comes down to it, without knowing where the D-men land, its going to be hard to accurately say where he lands in the draft. Right now I would have him ~6-7th which is pretty good. And still a steal at 15 even if a few D-men creep into the top 10.

Ehh, going by this year alone, Larkin was better statistically and on another planet in even strength play. Larkin averaged 15:41 ESTOI and racked up 53 points. Reinhart averaged 13:48 and only had 29 points. Reinhart's production was extremely dependent on the power play and he got more offensive zone starts.

Also, I can only say based on stats because I don't watch Reinhart regularly, but appears better defensively as well. Plus Larkin kills penalties.
 
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Pavels Dog

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Err, Larkin is arguably top 5 in his draft year. Maybe just outside, but the draft is shaping up pretty well.
Expectations for top 5 picks are generally too high. Biggest thing is you’re way more likely to find an NHLer and they’re usually way closer to stepping in than later picks. Beyond the generational type #1-#2OA picks are a lot of players that someone like Larkin can definitely compete with.
 

Shaman464

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Expectations for top 5 picks are generally too high. Biggest thing is you’re way more likely to find an NHLer and they’re usually way closer to stepping in than later picks. Beyond the generational type #1-#2OA picks are a lot of players that someone like Larkin can definitely compete with.

I'd tend to agree with players between 5 and 10 Larkin would be interchangeable with in the 2014 draft. He definitely has exceeded his draft position.
 

Shaman464

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Reinhart higher ceiling than Larkin?

Definitely. You think Detroit doesn't have scoring, they had 18 more goals than Buffalo this year. Say what you will, Larkin had a better supporting cast around him than Reinhart. I wouldn't count Reinhart out for a second at this point for having a higher ceiling. That isn't to say he's elite while Larkin is only good. I just think when its all said and done Reinhart is more likely to end his career as a consensus better player, but probably not by a ton.
 

newfy

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Definitely. You think Detroit doesn't have scoring, they had 18 more goals than Buffalo this year. Say what you will, Larkin had a better supporting cast around him than Reinhart. I wouldn't count Reinhart out for a second at this point for having a higher ceiling. That isn't to say he's elite while Larkin is only good. I just think when its all said and done Reinhart is more likely to end his career as a consensus better player, but probably not by a ton.

Larkin was still in on a higher percentage of his teams points, and while Buffalo doesnt score a tonne of goals Reinhart I dont think Larkin has anyone close to Eichel to play with on the powerplay. Reinhart was on Buffalos top PP with Eichel and O'reilly while his top linemate at even strength was O'Reilly. It isnt BUffalos top 6 that doesnt score, they dont have any depth. O'Reilly and Eichel are just as good or better than any other combination Detroit could have Larkin play with.
 
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BinCookin

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my redraft of 2014

1David Pastrnak
2Leon Draisaitl
3William Nylander
4Nikolaj Ehlers
5Brayden Point
6Aaron Ekblad
7Viktor Arvidsson
8Dylan Larkin
9Brandon Montour
10Sam Reinhart
11Robby Fabbri
12Kevin Fiala
13Nick Schmaltz
14Christian Dvorak
15Ondrej Kase
16Kevin Labanc
17Danton Heinen
18Alex Tuch
19Nick Ritchie
20Sam Bennett
21Brendan Perlini
22Jared McCann
23Adrian Kempe
24Jakub Vrana
25Anthony DeAngelo
26Ivan Barbashev
27Gustav Forsling
28Julius Honka
29Nikita Tryamkin
30Haydn Fleury
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

But clearly this thread has gotten way off target: So...

Rasmussen plays tonight. Hoping he can keep rolling.
 

Hen Kolland

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my redraft of 2014

1David Pastrnak
2Leon Draisaitl
3William Nylander
4Nikolaj Ehlers
5Brayden Point
6Aaron Ekblad
7Viktor Arvidsson
8Dylan Larkin
9Brandon Montour
10Sam Reinhart
11Robby Fabbri
12Kevin Fiala
13Nick Schmaltz
14Christian Dvorak
15Ondrej Kase
16Kevin Labanc
17Danton Heinen
18Alex Tuch
19Nick Ritchie
20Sam Bennett
21Brendan Perlini
22Jared McCann
23Adrian Kempe
24Jakub Vrana
25Anthony DeAngelo
26Ivan Barbashev
27Gustav Forsling
28Julius Honka
29Nikita Tryamkin
30Haydn Fleury
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
But clearly this thread has gotten way off target: So...

Rasmussen plays tonight. Hoping he can keep rolling.

I wish we could compare these things apples to apples, but redrafts always seem to favor players who are in more fortunate situations. You have Arvidsson and Point ranked higher than Larkin, which might turn out to be justifiable, but there are MASSIVE discrepancies in supporting casts right now. Hell, every player you listed above Larkin plays with a better supporting cast and team than Larkin. If Larkin maintained his pace/point share from this year on a team with Tampa's total Goals For, his stat line equates to ~22G + ~64A = ~86 points. Now that is a test-tube sample if I have ever seen one, but it's fun to imagine what Larkin could put together playing the same roles on significantly better teams (or if the Wings ever put together a strong supporting cast around him).

But like you said, Ras playing tonight. It feels like he's due for a 3 assist night; it's been four games since his last multi-assist night. Funny and encouraging that we've gotten to the point where we are almost expecting huge production rather than hoping for it.
 
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WingsMJN2965

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Definitely. You think Detroit doesn't have scoring, they had 18 more goals than Buffalo this year. Say what you will, Larkin had a better supporting cast around him than Reinhart. I wouldn't count Reinhart out for a second at this point for having a higher ceiling. That isn't to say he's elite while Larkin is only good. I just think when its all said and done Reinhart is more likely to end his career as a consensus better player, but probably not by a ton.

18 more goals still doesn't excuse Larkin nearly doubling up Reinhart on even strength production lol.
 

BinCookin

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But like you said, Ras playing tonight. It feels like he's due for a 3 assist night; it's been four games since his last multi-assist night. Funny and encouraging that we've gotten to the point where we are almost expecting huge production rather than hoping for it.

I never expect production. But I like to see our prospects do well.

I don't get hung up on expectations. I actually consider all prospects as potential busts.
this year hughes, boqvist, bouchard... anyone could bust and be a true failure.
I prefer the position of hoping for success, but expecting failure. In this way, all prospects accomplishments are great news.

As much as there is a huge debate between necas or vilardi or rasmussen... i consider them all potential busts. So I am enthused by any success any of them have. I will not be upset if Vilardi turns into a great player.

I am much more of a "show me your talent" at the NHL level. So the great news of Rasmussen playing well, isn't so much that he will be a good NHLer. that is still unknown. But it does provide evidence that he has a good chance to make our team. And I am just as excited that Hronek, Hicketts, Cholowski have played well as well.
 
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Hen Kolland

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I never expect production. But I like to see our prospects do well.

I don't get hung up on expectations. I actually consider all prospects as potential busts.
this year hughes, boqvist, bouchard... anyone could bust and be a true failure.
I prefer the position of hoping for success, but expecting failure. In this way, all prospects accomplishments are great news.

As much as there is a huge debate between necas or vilardi or rasmussen... i consider them all potential busts. So I am enthused by any success any of them have. I will not be upset if Vilardi turns into a great player.

I am much more of a "show me your talent" at the NHL level. So the great news of Rasmussen playing well, isn't so much that he will be a good NHLer. that is still unknown. But it does provide evidence that he has a good chance to make our team. And I am just as excited that Hronek, Hicketts, Cholowski have played well as well.

Don't get me wrong, nothing about Rasmussen has led me to believe that he is a sure thing or that I expect him to be an NHL success story. I do 100% expect a pick like Ras to reach a point where they are performing at a very high rate in juniors regularly. If they never hit their stride and dominate with their juniors team as a top 10 pick in the NHL draft, then it is a catastrophic failure of the scouting department and front office and should cost people jobs. But that is where my expectations end and my skepticism starts.

Typically all high picks have something that they do, or have, at such a high level that can cover up glaring deficiencies as a kid playing other kids. Ras is a kid in man's body playing against kids in kid bodies. Once that transition to pro hockey occurs, that high level trait gets brought down to the pack, and those deficiencies fall behind. Ras is going to come up and still be bigger than pretty much everyone, but they are also going to be so much stronger and faster than what he has experienced.

This is the same reason I think Ras might adapt quicker than Vilardi; he has the physical tools, now he needs to develop the soft skills (which I think we have seen glimpses of). Vilardi has the soft skills, but he is going to physically be behind the rest of the pack to start; I still think Vilardi's ceiling is higher, but his potential to not reach his ceiling is much, much higher, if that makes sense. The development curve can be identified and minimized ahead of time, but nothing is a guarantee with the transition. And there's a fair to good chance that my assessment is completely off base and I'll eat my words if I end up being wrong. But, yes, I expect Rasmussen to dominate the junior circuit right now, but can only hope that he can have success at the next level.
 
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Dotter

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RAS is turing lots of people's initial opinion of him around, just as Larkin did. I think the problem is people focus too much on mock drafts and 20 second highlight videos instead of trusting our scouts, who watch these kids growing up on a day-to-day basis, and get to talk and interview them. Whereas all we get is the random YouTube clip (or lack thereof) and the word of some random internet user who claims they watched said player and said they didn't notice him -- (which may be true, because they won't have an eye for talent and growth).

I think people watch a few clips of a few players, envision those names on the back of a DRWs sweater, fall in love with the idea of Wings having those names on a sweater, then Wings pick a player expected to go where they did, not picking one of the players they dreamed to having that name on a sweater then ensue the "HATE THE PICK" chant for 1 or 3 years until they are proven wrong... Rinse and repeat.

I remember when Jurco use to get a lot of hype around here beacuse he had a really cool YouTube video posted online. RAS doesn't have that video and therefore people "HATE THE PICK!".
 

TheMule93

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Don't get me wrong, nothing about Rasmussen has led me to believe that he is a sure thing or that I expect him to be an NHL success story. I do 100% expect a pick like Ras to reach a point where they are performing at a very high rate in juniors regularly. If they never hit their stride and dominate with their juniors team as a top 10 pick in the NHL draft, then it is a catastrophic failure of the scouting department and front office and should cost people jobs. But that is where my expectations end and my skepticism starts.

Typically all high picks have something that they do, or have, at such a high level that can cover up glaring deficiencies as a kid playing other kids. Ras is a kid in man's body playing against kids in kid bodies. Once that transition to pro hockey occurs, that high level trait gets brought down to the pack, and those deficiencies fall behind. Ras is going to come up and still be bigger than pretty much everyone, but they are also going to be so much stronger and faster than what he has experienced.

This is the same reason I think Ras might adapt quicker than Vilardi; he has the physical tools, now he needs to develop the soft skills (which I think we have seen glimpses of). Vilardi has the soft skills, but he is going to physically be behind the rest of the pack to start; I still think Vilardi's ceiling is higher, but his potential to not reach his ceiling is much, much higher, if that makes sense. The development curve can be identified and minimized ahead of time, but nothing is a guarantee with the transition. And there's a fair to good chance that my assessment is completely off base and I'll eat my words if I end up being wrong. But, yes, I expect Rasmussen to dominate the junior circuit right now, but can only hope that he can have success at the next level.

vilardi is 6'3 200lbs, hes not going to be behind the pack physically
 

Hen Kolland

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vilardi is 6'3 200lbs, hes not going to be behind the pack physically

Physically meaning physical tools. Size is only one component. There's size, strength, speed, agility, skating efficiency etc. Vilardi is absolutely behind the curve right now. He's not fast, strong, or fluid enough at this point. Nobody is truly strong enough in their D+1 year, that's why everyone spends time in the gym so I don't consider him being behind in that regard, but his skating is the question mark. With the league trending in a direction that focuses extensively on speed and stretching the ice, that can be detrimental to what he level of success he can reach.
 

HisNoodliness

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When was anybody down on Larkin?

His sophomore slump yes, but after he was drafted the general consensus was favorable.
I hated the Larkin pick, he was the one guy I didn't want as I thought but he had a low offensive ceiling. Swing and a miss on that one. I also hated the Rasmussen pick as the guy I really didn't want... Hopefully I'm wrong again.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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I hated the Larkin pick, he was the one guy I didn't want as I thought but he had a low offensive ceiling. Swing and a miss on that one. I also hated the Rasmussen pick as the guy I really didn't want... Hopefully I'm wrong again.

Who do you hate in this draft out of curiosity? We need to keep track of this just in case it becomes a trend we can provide an exclusive list to the Red Wings front office as a fool-proof scouting report. You might be an unintentional savant.
 

HisNoodliness

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Who do you hate in this draft out of curiosity? We need to keep track of this just in case it becomes a trend we can provide an exclusive list to the Red Wings front office as a fool-proof scouting report. You might be an unintentional savant.
Honestly I like all of the expected top 10 guys. Tkachuk is probably the guy I like least compared to consensus but I still think he'll be a good player. I'd be pretty upset if we reached for Barrett Hayton who sometimes sneaks into people's top 10s.
 

Dotter

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When was anybody down on Larkin?

His sophomore slump yes, but after he was drafted the general consensus was favorable.

I'm not sure where it orginated, but there was a label on Larkin "Helm with hands", and nearly everyone freaked the f#- out!

It was chaos around here... much similar to the RAS pick. Those same people don't hate the Larkin pick anymore, but some are just now starting to come around on the RAS pick. Tho- there's still a few holding out because 'Vilardi'. I think that's a valid debate, but RAS is proving he was the right choice. Vilardi's warts are the real deal breaker and the reason why he fell. But I guess he has a cooler last name?
 

Hen Kolland

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Honestly I like all of the expected top 10 guys. Tkachuk is probably the guy I like least compared to consensus but I still think he'll be a good player. I'd be pretty upset if we reached for Barrett Hayton who sometimes sneaks into people's top 10s.

I'm not that high on Tkachuk either. I'd say the person I have soured on the most in the 1-8 range this year is Hughes. When I've watched him play, I've always left expecting to be more impressed.

With Larkin and Ras and 2Z looking like more of meat and potatoes type of players, and Mantha being turned into a net front presence, I feel like we could really use some guys that can score from the perimeter with a shot, or someone who has a bit more of a lateral style of play. Best case would be both, obviously, Svech, Zadina, and Wahlstrom all have the skills I'd be looking at, but Tkachuk actually feels redundant to me at this point.

Edit: Mantha very well could be that perimeter shot I'm looking for on the faceoff dot with Rasmussen being introduced next year...hopefully.
 

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