As The Season Ends....Regarding Giroux

[Rubberneck]

if proving a point has no basis, then what is the basis. what would you say to the analysts on the panel that i linked? that they are just creating problems? get some thicker skin.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Giroux was never a strong skater and once he had those hip surgeries, it made him even slower to the point where he can't do anything 5 on 5.

Yes you can say he was tired on that breakaway chance but I mean in the NHL, in the third period, of a tie game, in a playoff push, I think he could have found an extra push.

Hip surgeries ruined his season

 

[zeke]

um, that happens to players at the end of shifts all the time.

 

[Rubberneck]

um, that happens to players at the end of shifts all the time.

Yeah, Zeke -- IN THE OLD TMER GAMES, NEXT.

 

[BLONG7]

He is not close to the player that was taking over for Crosby in 2012. Yea, sure. Never thought he had the speed to back D men off. If he is injured, he has another off season to work on his conditioning. But his skating is not good enough.

He was never close to Crosby, that was just his coach, stroking his ego..........in the 5 years since, he has declined every season, and Crosby gets better...it was never ever even close...
What happened? He got his guaranteed money, maybe? He is going in the wrong direction...

 

[nhindian]

Those 2 weeks of being the best player in the world must have taken a giant toll on his body.

 

[FlamesFan18]

Thought id bump this thread because I just realized how awful of a season Giroux had at Even Strength production. With 500+ minutes at forward, Giroux is 354th (out of just under 400 forwards) at Points per 60 and ranks even worse at Primary Points per 60. This is equivalent to being 12th on the average NHL team in even strength production at forward. For example, amongst 25 or so NHL stars, guys like Zucker, Vanek, Burakovsky, Williams, and Pominville have a better P60 at 5v5 than Giroux does in all situations.

This leads to my main point that roughly 75% of goals are scored at Even Strength, so wouldn't you rather have a player who can produce at even strength than a PP specialist type guy as your 1C at even strength? I don't understand how people keep putting him in their top 10-20 center lists when he is this bad at producing at even strength. I am not trying to bash Giroux or anything and still value his two-way game and PP/PK ability, but am I wrong to not call him a 1C. There are plenty of as good or better defensive centers who produce WAY more at even strength who people call 2C or 3C'S. People always tend to brag about certain players even strength production but then proceed to ignore that same argument when talking about Giroux. I don't really get it, can someone help me out here. Would you rather have a player who can score 60 points at even strength with limited PP time over a player who's roughly 30 even strength 30 power play points? Or are they same player to you because a point is a point?

 

[Evergreen]

Im just hoping for him that he can recover nicely. I remember Simon Gagne having sports hernia stuff and just never looked the same after.

Edit: I know Giroux's issue is hips, but hips, back, core, lower body...you can be 'healthy' but not 'elite pro athlete' healthy and once your core goes as a hockey player bad things follow.

As someone with a hernia who is going to get surgery soon, this is sad to hear

 

[Rubberneck]

I actually talked to someone in philly about this recently, someone who knows more than i do, and there is more to it than even just his injury. the flyers first line was one of the best in hockey during the first 25-30 games of this season (16-17). so all of the sudden the coach starts toying with the line, giroux takes a hit or two that aggravate his injury(didnt allow enough recovery time which left him open to this)......then on top of that both voracek and giroux apparently just getting married to their spouses as all of this happening. check that out though, giroux/voracek/simmonds line was tops to start this season. lot of factors apparently....they folded.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I actually talked to someone in philly about this recently, someone who knows more than i do, and there is more to it than even just his injury. the flyers first line was one of the best in hockey during the first 25-30 games of this season (16-17). so all of the sudden the coach starts toying with the line, giroux takes a hit or two that aggravate his injury(didnt allow enough recovery time which left him open to this)......then on top of that both voracek and giroux apparently just getting married to their spouses as all of this happening. check that out though, giroux/voracek/simmonds line was tops to start this season. lot of factors apparently....they folded.

I think playing style has a lot to do with, mostly coaching. Giroux's best offensive seasons came under Laviolette, as many players' do (look at Arvidsson). Hakstol's game and a low scoring/uninspiring team combined with some physical decline and honestly, complacency, give you today's Giroux. His confidence when he was at his best was supreme, he was extremely cerebral. That ****-you intuition is not completely there and it all just snowballs.

The aging decline is real: I'm about the same age, and though never an elite athlete I sure as hell felt a lot better in 2012 than I do today. But that does not account for all of it. Honestly, he needs a new coach and the whole team needs a system shock, a big addition or subtraction.

 

[Doctor No]

As someone with a hernia who is going to get surgery soon, this is sad to hear

If you also play hockey, don't try to come back too soon. Listen 100% to what your surgery team and post-op folks are telling you.

I tried to get back early (tournament game) and didn't feel "right" for about two years.

 

[I am not exposed]

He'll bounce back IMO but, it's hard not to look at his point totals and question it. 3 straight years of declining numbers usually doesn't bode well for a guy who's about to be on the wrong side of 30(next season). Still one of my favorite players.

I didn't realise he was that old for some reason!

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

Thought id bump this thread because I just realized how awful of a season Giroux had at Even Strength production. With 500+ minutes at forward, Giroux is 354th (out of just under 400 forwards) at Points per 60 and ranks even worse at Primary Points per 60. This is equivalent to being 12th on the average NHL team in even strength production at forward. For example, amongst 25 or so NHL stars, guys like Zucker, Vanek, Burakovsky, Williams, and Pominville have a better P60 at 5v5 than Giroux does in all situations.

This leads to my main point that roughly 75% of goals are scored at Even Strength, so wouldn't you rather have a player who can produce at even strength than a PP specialist type guy as your 1C at even strength? I don't understand how people keep putting him in their top 10-20 center lists when he is this bad at producing at even strength. I am not trying to bash Giroux or anything and still value his two-way game and PP/PK ability, but am I wrong to not call him a 1C. There are plenty of as good or better defensive centers who produce WAY more at even strength who people call 2C or 3C'S. People always tend to brag about certain players even strength production but then proceed to ignore that same argument when talking about Giroux. I don't really get it, can someone help me out here. Would you rather have a player who can score 60 points at even strength with limited PP time over a player who's roughly 30 even strength 30 power play points? Or are they same player to you because a point is a point?

Giroux's rank amongst all skater in ES p/60 with minimum of 500 mins played.
2016-17 361
2015-16 107
2014-15 192
2013-14 50
2012-13 69
2011-12 10
2010-11 10

Giroux's rank amongst all skaters in PP p/60 with minimum of 100 mins played.
2016-17 21
2015-16 55
2014-15 3
2013-14 3
2012-13 8
2011-12 3
2010-11 84


He's still good on the PP at least, despite a huge downward trend in ES.

 

[tony d]

Had an off year this yr. with 58 pts. but I expect to see him bounce back next year. He's to talented not to.

 

[Baemon Severson*]

Thought id bump this thread because I just realized how awful of a season Giroux had at Even Strength production. With 500+ minutes at forward, Giroux is 354th (out of just under 400 forwards) at Points per 60 and ranks even worse at Primary Points per 60. This is equivalent to being 12th on the average NHL team in even strength production at forward. For example, amongst 25 or so NHL stars, guys like Zucker, Vanek, Burakovsky, Williams, and Pominville have a better P60 at 5v5 than Giroux does in all situations.

This leads to my main point that roughly 75% of goals are scored at Even Strength, so wouldn't you rather have a player who can produce at even strength than a PP specialist type guy as your 1C at even strength? I don't understand how people keep putting him in their top 10-20 center lists when he is this bad at producing at even strength. I am not trying to bash Giroux or anything and still value his two-way game and PP/PK ability, but am I wrong to not call him a 1C. There are plenty of as good or better defensive centers who produce WAY more at even strength who people call 2C or 3C'S. People always tend to brag about certain players even strength production but then proceed to ignore that same argument when talking about Giroux. I don't really get it, can someone help me out here. Would you rather have a player who can score 60 points at even strength with limited PP time over a player who's roughly 30 even strength 30 power play points? Or are they same player to you because a point is a point?

Flyers fans will point out that he was hurt, but this is a trend that's been happening for a few years. His contract is one of the worst in the league

 

[Evergreen]

If you also play hockey, don't try to come back too soon. Listen 100% to what your surgery team and post-op folks are telling you.

I tried to get back early (tournament game) and didn't feel "right" for about two years.

Yeah, I play men's league now but I'm missed the last year or so because of the hernia. Been waiting to get it fixed but it's just been bothering me so much that I can't hold off any longer. It's an inguinal hernia, not a sports hernia. But I guess both are core injuries.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Giroux's rank amongst all skater in ES p/60 with minimum of 500 mins played.
2016-17 361
2015-16 107
2014-15 192
2013-14 50
2012-13 69
2011-12 10
2010-11 10

Giroux's rank amongst all skaters in PP p/60 with minimum of 100 mins played.
2016-17 21
2015-16 55
2014-15 3
2013-14 3
2012-13 8
2011-12 3
2010-11 84


He's still good on the PP at least, despite a huge downward trend in ES.

But what are his Giroux-adjusted points?

 

[Laveuglette]

Those 2 weeks of being the best player in the world must have taken a giant toll on his body.

The night Peter Laviolette triggered Pens fans for years and years...

 

[pm88]

I used to be a huge fan of this guy, him vs Crosby in those playoff series was epic but I don't know what happened to him. I used to wish he could somehow come to Ottawa but I just don't know if he's the same player anymore

 

[ChiefWiggum]

His body truly is beat up. Hip surgeries took him from average speed to slow. The man was only good on the PP this year. Lived off reputation this year. If theres a similar regression this year he will be looked at only by his contract.

 

[StoneHands]

The night Peter Laviolette triggered Pens fans for years and years...

I still can't believe Pens fans just cannot let that go. It was one comment made by his coach 5 years ago, which most Flyers fans disagreed with, and their butts still hurt over it.