As of right now how do you think the regular season will go?

[y2kcanucks]

Didn't have a calculator, just looked at his 48 points in 43 games. Which works out to a 92 point pace over 82 games...

Would love to see a list of guys 22 or younger that produced as high a PPG in the AHL over the last 5 years. Would be willing to bet it's a pretty damn good collection of forwards at the NHL level.

Does anyone know the last Canuck forward that produced that much in the AHL at 22 years of age or younger?

To name a few:

Zach Boychuk
Luke Adam
Cory Conacher
Ryan Spooner (close enough)
Zac Dalpe (close enough)
Brock Trotter
Chris Bourque

Yeah, you're right. A pretty damn good collection of NHL talent.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'd say the development of our prospects (forwards) in the past leave much to be desired - which leaves me a fair bit of hope for Vey since he was developed by the Kings.

This is very true. Another reason why I'm utterly terrified about Shinkaruk possibly going down to Utica.

 

[arsmaster*]

I'd say the development of our prospects (forwards) in the past leave much to be desired - which leaves me a fair bit of hope for Vey since he was developed by the Kings.

I think a more pertinent question would be how often it's happened in the Kings organization, because I highly doubt Vey puts those numbers up with Utica last year.

Not to say he isn't a good to great point producer at that level, just a bit of a barb to what they had in Utica last year or in Chicago the year before.

 

[RandV]

This is very true. Another reason why I'm utterly terrified about Shinkaruk possibly going down to Utica.

Shouldn't really be a concern... this is more of a historical context, and rather than the farm ruining development it's more a case of lacking good offensive forwards to send down. The odd time we did have a decent high draft pick forward they rarely had anyone to play with.

 

[IntangiBo]

Pres trophy isn't an option?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Shouldn't really be a concern... this is more of a historical context, and rather than the farm ruining development it's more a case of lacking good offensive forwards to send down. The odd time we did have a decent high draft pick forward they rarely had anyone to play with.

Cody Hodgson and Jordan Schroeder both looked better in camp before they were ruined by our development system.

 

[Bobs your uncle]

This is very true. Another reason why I'm utterly terrified about Shinkaruk possibly going down to Utica.

He's not NHL ready at this point.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Didn't have a calculator, just looked at his 48 points in 43 games. Which works out to a 92 point pace over 82 games...

Would love to see a list of guys 22 or younger that produced as high a PPG in the AHL over the last 5 years.

Hard to say, since we don't know how many players could have been on that pace for the first 43 games and then finished at a much lower rate.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

To name a few:

Zach Boychuk
Luke Adam
Cory Conacher
Ryan Spooner (close enough)
Zac Dalpe (close enough)
Brock Trotter
Chris Bourque

Yeah, you're right. A pretty damn good collection of NHL talent.

So 4 or 5 guys in 5 years? That's the point. And after looking up all those guys I'm sure you're well aware just how many went on to succeed in the NHL.

Canuck PP looked good again going 1 for 1. Still don't see any reason it won't be better than last season.

 

[TheWanderer]

I'm starting to think our wingers will be pretty suspect, save a few. Those call-ups from the AHL might serve us better than we'd expect.

 

[me2]

Lol ruined Hodgson and Schroeder. maybe they just weren't that good to begin with, maybe you think ruined = found out.

 

[Pip]

Cody Hodgson and Jordan Schroeder both looked better in camp before they were ruined by our development system.

Hodgson and Schroeder were ruined?

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

I don't think this season will go well. Last season, if we recall, the Canucks started pretty well and were right in the thick of things til Christmas, before injuries and a tough stretch of schedule dealt us a set-back. Then the whole series of debacles: Brown runs over Luongo and takes him out...lose the rematch after leading into the last minute...that game in Anaheim with the seven minutes of 5-on-3...game against Phoenix where the guy cheap-shotted everyone...and of course Tortorella versus Calgary, that was just the icing on the cake, but the point is we were in it past Christmas and then it all collapsed within a couple of weeks in January and by the Olympic break we were completely done for.

This season is not gonna go that way, this team is decent and they'll give it their best, but there's not so much talent to go around here, I think it will be a season where instead of last year, where we gave it a solid go before crashing and burning in an embarrassing disaster, this will be one where the team is pretty clearly overmatched right from the start, we'll have to take the positives where we can in terms of player development and looking to the future.

This is the third coach in three years, and there's a lot of new faces in and old faces not around anymore, it will take some time to work things through and the depth is not there to withstand any major injuries either. There is no high-end defensive depth beyond the Sedins...you can't take this roster and put together a real top six unit no matter how you arrange it, it's more like bottom nine and then Vrbata or Burrows with the Sedins, which on a real contending team would be a nice second line. We have reason to be optimistic about the young guys, and the new management has done a lot right and looks like they are heading in the right direction, I think the team will play hard and do some good things, but I'm not optimistic about our chances of contending this season. If we're anywhere near the playoff race come spring that would be about as much as we can hope for, the West is absolutely beastly this season.

 

[Hammer79]

I don't think this season will go well. Last season, if we recall, the Canucks started pretty well and were right in the thick of things til Christmas, before injuries and a tough stretch of schedule dealt us a set-back. Then the whole series of debacles: Brown runs over Luongo and takes him out...lose the rematch after leading into the last minute...that game in Anaheim with the seven minutes of 5-on-3...game against Phoenix where the guy cheap-shotted everyone...and of course Tortorella versus Calgary, that was just the icing on the cake, but the point is we were in it past Christmas and then it all collapsed within a couple of weeks in January and by the Olympic break we were completely done for.

This season is not gonna go that way, this team is decent and they'll give it their best, but there's not so much talent to go around here, I think it will be a season where instead of last year, where we gave it a solid go before crashing and burning in an embarrassing disaster, this will be one where the team is pretty clearly overmatched right from the start, we'll have to take the positives where we can in terms of player development and looking to the future.

This is the third coach in three years, and there's a lot of new faces in and old faces not around anymore, it will take some time to work things through and the depth is not there to withstand any major injuries either. There is no high-end defensive depth beyond the Sedins...you can't take this roster and put together a real top six unit no matter how you arrange it, it's more like bottom nine and then Vrbata or Burrows with the Sedins, which on a real contending team would be a nice second line. We have reason to be optimistic about the young guys, and the new management has done a lot right and looks like they are heading in the right direction, I think the team will play hard and do some good things, but I'm not optimistic about our chances of contending this season. If we're anywhere near the playoff race come spring that would be about as much as we can hope for, the West is absolutely beastly this season.

While I agree with you that the forward corps is basically a tweener 1st/2nd line plus a bottom nine, there are reasons for playoff optimism. SJ did nothing but slide back this offseason. Phoenix lost two of their best offensive players. Calgary and Edmonton are still Calgary and Edmonton. I think we can beat out the Coyotes or the Sharks for that 4th spot in the division.

 

[y2kcanucks]

So 4 or 5 guys in 5 years? That's the point. And after looking up all those guys I'm sure you're well aware just how many went on to succeed in the NHL.

Canuck PP looked good again going 1 for 1. Still don't see any reason it won't be better than last season.

So what's your point? That Vey will turn out like Zach Boychuk? Yikes!

 

[Drop the Sopel]

So what's your point? That Vey will turn out like Zach Boychuk? Yikes!

Avoid all elite offensive producers at the AHL level! They might turn out like Zach Boychuk!

Hopefully Shinkaruk doesn't produce major offense at that level. Would be a bad sign, as you've proven.

Did you honestly not learn anything by referencing top AHL producers at 21-22 years of age? Nothing?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Avoid all elite offensive producers at the AHL level! They might turn out like Zach Boychuk!

Hopefully Shinkaruk doesn't produce major offense at that level. Would be a bad sign, as you've proven.

Did you honestly not learn anything by referencing top AHL producers at 21-22 years of age? Nothing?

Earlier you said you would like to see a list of 22 and younger aged players who put up a PPG at the AHL level. I gave you a list of a number of players I found, and (actually surprisingly) none of them have become quality NHLers. You suggested that the group would contain quite a few top quality NHLers. It doesn't. So perhaps *gasp* just looking at their offensive production solely isn't an indicator of their NHL potential.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Earlier you said you would like to see a list of 22 and younger aged players who put up a PPG at the AHL level. I gave you a list of a number of players I found, and (actually surprisingly) none of them have become quality NHLers. You suggested that the group would contain quite a few top quality NHLers. It doesn't. So perhaps *gasp* just looking at their offensive production solely isn't an indicator of their NHL potential.

So you just randomly looked up players and couldn't find a single NHL player? How did you go about your search? How did you find a 27 year old Brock Trotter for example, without stumbling across Tyler Johnson's 22 year old season from a year ago where he put up nearly identical offense to Linden Vey? Or the countless other more recent examples for that matter?

 

[RandV]

I don't think this season will go well. Last season, if we recall, the Canucks started pretty well and were right in the thick of things til Christmas, before injuries and a tough stretch of schedule dealt us a set-back. Then the whole series of debacles: Brown runs over Luongo and takes him out...lose the rematch after leading into the last minute...that game in Anaheim with the seven minutes of 5-on-3...game against Phoenix where the guy cheap-shotted everyone...and of course Tortorella versus Calgary, that was just the icing on the cake, but the point is we were in it past Christmas and then it all collapsed within a couple of weeks in January and by the Olympic break we were completely done for.

This season is not gonna go that way, this team is decent and they'll give it their best, but there's not so much talent to go around here, I think it will be a season where instead of last year, where we gave it a solid go before crashing and burning in an embarrassing disaster, this will be one where the team is pretty clearly overmatched right from the start, we'll have to take the positives where we can in terms of player development and looking to the future.

This is the third coach in three years, and there's a lot of new faces in and old faces not around anymore, it will take some time to work things through and the depth is not there to withstand any major injuries either. There is no high-end defensive depth beyond the Sedins...you can't take this roster and put together a real top six unit no matter how you arrange it, it's more like bottom nine and then Vrbata or Burrows with the Sedins, which on a real contending team would be a nice second line. We have reason to be optimistic about the young guys, and the new management has done a lot right and looks like they are heading in the right direction, I think the team will play hard and do some good things, but I'm not optimistic about our chances of contending this season. If we're anywhere near the playoff race come spring that would be about as much as we can hope for, the West is absolutely beastly this season.

Personally i don't think we're any worse than that last two season, the situation just looks worse because the competition got better.

At this point though I'd say there's a decent chance Dallas or Colorado stumbles, they had seasons last year where everything went right and they were among the least injured teams in the league, and San Jose could always fall of the same cliff we did.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Earlier you said you would like to see a list of 22 and younger aged players who put up a PPG at the AHL level. I gave you a list of a number of players I found, and (actually surprisingly) none of them have become quality NHLers. You suggested that the group would contain quite a few top quality NHLers. It doesn't. So perhaps *gasp* just looking at their offensive production solely isn't an indicator of their NHL potential.

Was that a comprehensive list, or just a sampling of players? Your original verbage was "to name a few".

Due to the richness of the draft in the off season and the need for the team to be turning a page, I have no particular concerns about outcome this year. If we make the playoffs, that's neat. If we don't, that's neat too.

What I want to see is a more entertaining product (last year was unwatchable) and less toxic drama and sideshow accompanying the team. If we accomplish those two things I could care less whether we finish dead last.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Was that a comprehensive list, or just a sampling of players? Your original verbage was "to name a few".

Due to the richness of the draft in the off season and the need for the team to be turning a page, I have no particular concerns about outcome this year. If we make the playoffs, that's neat. If we don't, that's neat too.

What I want to see is a more entertaining product (last year was unwatchable) and less toxic drama and sideshow accompanying the team. If we accomplish those two things I could care less whether we finish dead last.

Admittedly a sampling, but I don't recall there being too many others. Tyler Johnson is one. In any event, DtS suggesting that the list would contain a large number of quality NHLers is wrong.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Admittedly a sampling, but I don't recall there being too many others. Tyler Johnson is one. In any event, DtS suggesting that the list would contain a large number of quality NHLers is wrong.

I could find 3 on one team in the last 2 years in Kucherov, T. Johnson and Palat that were major league point producers at the AHL level - all 3 look to have very bright futures in the NHL.

Are you trying to pretend you did a random sampling? - it's too transparent. Again, how did you find 27 and 28 year olds in Brock Trotter and Chris Bourque without finding any NHL players in the last 5 years?

Something stinks here.

 

[MS]

Admittedly a sampling, but I don't recall there being too many others. Tyler Johnson is one. In any event, DtS suggesting that the list would contain a large number of quality NHLers is wrong.

In 2011-12, the players aged 22 and under who scored over 0.9 points/game in the AHL were :

Cory Conacher - NHL regular
Tyler Johnson - NHL regular, Calder finalist last year
Kyle Palmeiri - NHL regular
Gustav Nyquist - emerging NHL star

So, in that season, 100% of guys who were big minor-league scorers at a young age quickly made the jump to the NHL. And 3/4 are really good NHL players.

This continues if you lower the threshold to 0.8 points/game and 40+ games :

Jonathan Marchessault - OK, this guy hasn't done anything but is absolutely tiny.
Peter Holland - NHL player for most of last year
Mark Barbario - NHL player
Tomas Tatar - NHL regular, 40 points last year for Detroit
Casey Cizikas - NHL regular
Cam Atkinson - NHL regular, 20 goals last year
Nazem Kadri - NHL regular

6/7 were NHL players last year, and 4/7 are quite good NHL players.

So you're pretty much completely wrong on this. The success rate of guys aged 22 and under who score at a high rate in the NHL is exceptionally good, provided they aren't incredibly small. And your cherry picking of flops was pretty disingenuous.

 

[arsmaster*]

In 2011-12, the players aged 22 and under who scored over 0.9 points/game in the AHL were :

Cory Conacher - NHL regular
Tyler Johnson - NHL regular, Calder finalist last year
Kyle Palmeiri - NHL regular
Gustav Nyquist - emerging NHL star

So, in that season, 100% of guys who were big minor-league scorers at a young age quickly made the jump to the NHL. And 3/4 are really good NHL players.

This continues if you lower the threshold to 0.8 points/game and 40+ games :

Jonathan Marchessault - OK, this guy hasn't done anything but is absolutely tiny.
Peter Holland - NHL player for most of last year
Mark Barbario - NHL player
Tomas Tatar - NHL regular, 40 points last year for Detroit
Casey Cizikas - NHL regular
Cam Atkinson - NHL regular, 20 goals last year
Nazem Kadri - NHL regular

6/7 were NHL players last year, and 4/7 are quite good NHL players.

So you're pretty much completely wrong on this. The success rate of guys aged 22 and under who score at a high rate in the NHL is exceptionally good, provided they aren't incredibly small. And your cherry picking of flops was pretty disingenuous.

Which is why I'd do anything possible to find a taker for Sbisa now and find a way to get Barberio from Tampa, since there is a log jam on defense and he requires waivers to get down to the AHL.

Czikas is also a player I expressed interest in early this summer.

I also think it's unfair to compare any of the Lightning system to the rest of the league. That place is like an NHLer factory of late.

 

[CherryToke]

This is very true. Another reason why I'm utterly terrified about Shinkaruk possibly going down to Utica.

Shinkaruk doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would easily have his confidence broken. and he wont be alone down there with a team full of grinders, like in the past.