Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

[Amazing Kreiderman]

More just thinking out loud here, and you may even agree with me, but why is popularity of the sport always brought up when discussing how good a hockey player is relative to other sports? It’s the ultimate strawman argument and drives me crazy.

There’s this preposterous general consensus that Wayne Gretzky can’t be the most dominant athlete in team sports because hockey isn’t popular enough. But he torched his peers at a level that Jordan, Messi, Brady, etc haven’t even come close to. If you can make the argument that any player is better than the above players (Lebron, Pele, Rice), than it’s a non-starter that they’re more dominant.

You’ve struck a nerve on an open wound.

Yeah, I'm going to respond here because you need to play a global sport to be considered in these things, not some folklore nobody outside your country plays professionally


Look, back to your point: Panarin is the most dominant in New York in the big-4 sports, but most fans won't care because they don't watch. That's all. The same way people outside the US only know Tom Brady as Gisele Bündchen's husband

 

[Rongomania]

Yeah, I'm going to respond here because you need to play a global sport to be considered in these things, not some folklore nobody outside your country plays professionally


Look, back to your point: Panarin is the most dominant in New York in the big-4 sports, but most fans won't care because they don't watch. That's all. The same way people outside the US only know Tom Brady as Gisele Bündchen's husband

(Mic drop).

 

[Jauffre]

I'm so upset he's taken

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Oh my God, I just had this argument on FB. The guy said that Jordan has made the game global and Gretzky hasn't done that so he was better. I made it clear how preposterous it is to compare a low investment sport that doesn't have the constraints of ice being central to it being played to basketball that's a lot more accessible to people around the world.

I think anytime someone brings in the popularity of the sport to this discussion, it’s because they don’t have a stronger argument.

MJ is a monster, but you’re gonna have millions of people that would argue Lebron is better. That right there means he’s not as dominant as Gretz.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think anytime someone brings in the popularity of the sport to this discussion, it’s because they don’t have a stronger argument.

MJ is a monster, but you’re gonna have millions of people that would argue Lebron is better. That right there means he’s not as dominant as Gretz.

Some people argue that Orr is better than Gretzky though. Maybe it's just in the history forum on this board.

I think Gretzky benefited a lot playing in a high scoring era though and if he spent his entire career in the DPE there would be more argument because his stats wouldn't be as cartoonish.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Oh my God, I just had this argument on FB. The guy said that Jordan has made the game global and Gretzky hasn't done that so he was better. I made it clear how preposterous it is to compare a low investment sport that doesn't have the constraints of ice being central to it being played to basketball that's a lot more accessible to people around the world.

Just for reference: My mother, who does not watch sports at all, knows who Michael Jordan is. She knows what he looks like. Gretzky isn't really on that same level when it comes to global recognition but that's because basketball is a more popular game in bigger countries. Aside from Russia, the hockey-crazy countries (Czech Rep, Finland, Sweden) have a relatively low population compared to the countries where basketball is popular (France, Spain, Argentina).

Jordan has a bigger "global footprint" if you will. That's not a knock on Gretzky. It's just the way it is. Jordan's height of popularity resulted in a movie that had Bill Murray in it. In school (in the Netherlands) everyone had NBA-themed school accessories. Basketball-pencil cases etc.

The NBA is much better at selling and promoting their product than the NHL. But Michael Jordan turned it into a global product. A true global product. The 1992 Summer Olympics were a big deal for the rise of basketball. For hockey? I think no tournament has ever come close to that in Europe.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Just for reference: My mother, who does not watch sports at all, knows who Michael Jordan is. She knows what he looks like. Gretzky isn't really on that same level when it comes to global recognition but that's because basketball is a more popular game in bigger countries. Aside from Russia, the hockey-crazy countries (Czech Rep, Finland, Sweden) have a relatively low population compared to the countries where basketball is popular (France, Spain, Argentina).

Jordan has a bigger "global footprint" if you will. That's not a knock on Gretzky. It's just the way it is. Jordan's height of popularity resulted in a movie that had Bill Murray in it. In school (in the Netherlands) everyone had NBA-themed school accessories. Basketball-pencil cases etc.

The NBA is much better at selling and promoting their product than the NHL. But Michael Jordan turned it into a global product. A true global product. The 1992 Summer Olympics were a big deal for the rise of basketball. For hockey? I think no tournament has ever come close to that in Europe.

But what difference does it make in regards who is better? And basketball is like soccer, extremely low barriers to entry. Compare that to hockey. You just can't compare the two.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

But what difference does it make in regards who is better? And basketball is like soccer, extremely low barriers to entry. Compare that to hockey. You just can't compare the two.

If you look at who was more dominant, it's almost impossible to argue against Gretzky except for maybe Don Bradman (cricket). But if you take the popularity of the sport into consideration, out of the big 4 sports in the world Hockey is ahead of football (NFL) so there's that.

I think what Gretzky did is more impressive than what Brady has done considering how many people play the sport globally etc. In that regard, popularity of the sport matters.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If you look at who was more dominant, it's almost impossible to argue against Gretzky except for maybe Don Bradman (cricket). But if you take the popularity of the sport into consideration, out of the big 4 sports in the world Hockey is ahead of football (NFL) so there's that.

I think what Gretzky did is more impressive than what Brady has done considering how many people play the sport globally etc. In that regard, popularity of the sport matters.

I don't get the relevance of popularity in the argument of who was better. It's like you're having a different argument.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Don Bradman was ridiculous, averaging a hair below a century per test match which is freaking absurd, but that was 75 years ago. It’s like comparing baseball players who have 350 wins. Even 300 wins today is becoming increasingly more difficult. It’s an entirely different world. While Gretzky’s era was way different to today’s, it’s nowhere near as different as hockey from 75 years ago. Or football from 75 years ago. Or basketball.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't get the relevance of popularity in the argument of who was better. It's like you're having a different argument.

I'm responding to you

Oh my God, I just had this argument on FB. The guy said that Jordan has made the game global and Gretzky hasn't done that so he was better. I made it clear how preposterous it is to compare a low investment sport that doesn't have the constraints of ice being central to it being played to basketball that's a lot more accessible to people around the world.

 

[Rempe73]

It’s still hard to believe a free agent signing has actually lived up to the hype. Hell, I’d argue he’s surpassed it. The guy is an absolute monster. Best offensive player we’ve had since Jagr. I just hope he doesn’t decline too soon. He hasn’t been in the league for too long that its hard to remember that he turns 30 later this year.

Thankfully, it works both ways. It’s been said before, but Jagr playing in the KHL for a few years may have increased his longevity, and likewise, Panarin not coming over until 24 or 25 years of age will hopefully have a similar effect.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm responding to you

But my point was that it's a silly argument.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

What's scary about Panarin's point pace is that he has not been as good as last season, LMAO. This dude is legit ridiculous.

 

[Sockosensei]

Leads the NHL in Points per 60 mins.
Leads the NHL in Even strength points per 60, AINEC

We are so spoiled.

If the Rangers make the playoffs, is he MVP? Or do the games that he missed take him out of contention?

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

What's scary about Panarin's point pace is that he has not been as good as last season, LMAO. This dude is legit ridiculous.

I hope the Rangers become contenders very soon while Panarin is still in his prime.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Leads the NHL in Points per 60 mins.
Leads the NHL in Even strength points per 60, AINEC

We are so spoiled.

If the Rangers make the playoffs, is he MVP? Or do the games that he missed take him out of contention?

View attachment 423824 View attachment 423824

I think that if the Rangers make the playoffs, he should be right there with McDavid in the conversation; but he won't be.

 

[Fitzy]

I think that if the Rangers make the playoffs, he should be right there with McDavid in the conversation; but he won't be.

Panarin, Fox, and Shesty are all gonna be eeked out by McDavid, Hedman, and Kaprizov.

Each should be a finalist though. Shesty will probably end up third behind Kapri and Robertson. Panarin behind McDavid and Kane or Drai

 

[Chytilmania]

4-3 L Philly
6-2 W Boston
3-2 W Buffalo
6-1 W NJ
6-3 W NJ
5-1 L Pit
4-2 L Pit
4-0 L Boston

Those were the games without him. Maybe we squeak out Philly and get to OT with Pit one game. Our early season goaltending/blowing leads is what's going to be our demise. We've played terrible against Pitt this year.

 

[Embryo]

DeGrom?

I'd say the cream of the crop in NYC right now as far as elite athletes is deGrom and Panarin. I don't follow the NBA close enough to know about them. Certainly ain't anybody on the NY Giants or Jets.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Panarin, Fox, and Shesty are all gonna be eeked out by McDavid, Hedman, and Kaprizov.

Each should be a finalist though. Shesty will probably end up third behind Kapri and Robertson. Panarin behind McDavid and Kane or Drai

It's pretty incredible that we are most likely going to miss the playoffs given some of the players on this roster. And it's not like we are the Oilers either. We have depth.

 

[romba]

What's scary about Panarin's point pace is that he has not been as good as last season, LMAO. This dude is legit ridiculous.

Disagree. I feel that last year he forced plays that weren't there leading to more turnovers, this year he seems happy to just get it to the open guy when the sexy play isn't available, even if it's down low below the red line, or when he's in the NZ and he sends it back to a defenseman for a reset. I think he's had some nagging issues earlier this year (hip, took a few thumping hits and was in pain on the bench after) and it took him a while to ramp up but I think he's going full speed now.

 

[Raspewtin]

just a fun fact, panarin has taken one penalty this year. just one

 

[TheDirtyH]

Love Panarin as much as everybody but he really needs to step up tonight. His last performance against the Islanders was not very good.

 

[JohnC]

19-20 (69GP): (28) multi-point games, (26) single point games, (15) 0 point games

20-21 (33GP so far): (16) multi-point games, (8) single point games, (9) 0 point games

Update since 4/17:

20-21 (39GP so far): (18)[+2] multi-point games, (10)[+2] single point games, (11)[+2] 0 point games