Around the NHL 11 - 2023/24

[Stumbledore]

If it actually is an addiction with Nichushkin then there are some seriously archaic league policies in the NHL and some serious ignorant posters on HF. If you think someone actually has a choice in whether or not you want to have that substance then you are dead wron

I didn't realize that an unknown party or parties had originally held him down and forced the substance into his system. I ignorantly thought he'd started taking this drug of his own free will.

 

[DRW204]

Other than Perfetti and maybe Heinola what other young players should have been starting this past season? We definitely played like crap in the playoffs but i find it very hard to find fault with finishing 4th overall in the NHL. I think there is going to be more spots available next season for young players so i will wait to see what our roster looks like next season .

Exactly.
Look at the past 3-4 draft clases which prospect should have played this year in a prominent role? HF shits on nhl coach gm's for vets, but posters here are the exact same with prospects that they have barely even watched.

 

[DRW204]

I hope we also remember it when the youth are struggling and the team is in a slump and we talk about how it should've been blown up years ago etc etc etc. Some teams have the depth and roster insulation to incorporate youth better than others.

Some teams youths are just flat out better too.

 

[gojetsgo]

Some teams youths are just flat out better too.

yeah, that part seems largely ignored around here...

 

[surixon]

Tooba ran the gamut today...

the thrill of victory (first goal) to the agony of defeat (stripped hard in the third).

 

[Maukkis]

I hope we also remember it when the youth are struggling and the team is in a slump and we talk about how it should've been blown up years ago etc etc etc. Some teams have the depth and roster insulation to incorporate youth better than others.

There's a wide misconception that rookies should be brought into the league like we do it - eight minutes a night with career ECHL level talent, just so that they don't get in the way of the rest of the team. That's a way to derail their careers, as we've seen numerous times with our guys. Can't make a good first impression when you have no support and no time to make things work.

The best way is to give them a significant role and talented linemates, so that they can actually find their feet and produce from the get-go. That's Dallas in a nutshell.

Some teams youths are just flat out better too.

We truly are the best team in the league at scouting, drafting, and developing excellent talent that somehow doesn't materialise into NHL level production. Weird how that works.

 

[surixon]

There's a wide misconception that rookies should be brought into the league like we do it - eight minutes a night with career ECHL level talent, just so that they don't get in the way of the rest of the team. That's a way to derail their careers, as we've seen numerous times with our guys. Can't make a good first impression when you have no support and no time to make things work.

The best way is to give them a significant role and talented linemates, so that they can actually find their feet and produce from the get-go. That's Dallas in a nutshell.


We truly are the best team in the league at scouting, drafting, and developing excellent talent that somehow doesn't materialise into NHL level production. Weird how that works.

Yup. To me the biggest issue is reward recognition. How do you not properly reward Cole's excellent first half with ice time in line with his role and performance. All top employers know that recognizing achievement is among the most important factors in talent retention and keeping your employees engaged. But we as an org are so concerned with keeping aging and bad players happy.

To quote Bones when talking about Cole "Can't keep every player happy". But what organization makes the decision to keep a top performing member unhappy just because he's a junior employee? Just stupid logic to me and it's not really a surprise this org has crashed and burned out of the playoffs the last number of years. We are still very much about keeping the most senior players happy despite what has largely been underwhelming individual results over the years.

Dallas is an org that shows you what happens when you throw seniority out the window and juat look at performance.

 

[RustyCat]

I didn't realize that an unknown party or parties had originally held him down and forced the substance into his system. I ignorantly thought he'd started taking this drug of his own free will.

Ignorant is right. What a shit thing to say. Welcome to the ignore list.

 

[Maukkis]

Yup. To me the biggest issue is reward recognition. How do you not properly reward Cole's excellent first half with ice time in line with his role and performance. All top employers know that recognizing achievement is among the most important factors in talent retention and keeping your employees engaged. But we as an org are so concerned with keeping aging and bad players happy.

To quote Bones when talking about Cole "Can't keep every player happy". But what organization makes the decision to keep a top performing member unhappy just because he's a junior employee? Just stupid logic to me and it's not really a surprise this org has crashed and burned out of the playoffs the last number of years. We are still very much about keeping the most senior players happy despite what has largely been underwhelming individual results over the years.

Dallas is an org that shows you what happens when you throw seniority out the window and juat look at performance.

I mistakenly thought that out of all of the prospects we have drafted in recent years, Perfetti would be the one they treated right. On one hand, benching him as our fifth best scorer makes zero sense, but on the other hand, it makes all the sense - that's the Jets' prospect experience in a nutshell. Do whatever you want, there's no reward in sight.

"But fourth in the league"
"But the early 2010s"
"But slump"
"But bad prospects"
"But no mental fortitude"
"But not everyone makes it"

GTFO. This team hasn't won enough to treat its prospects like we do.

 

[10Ducky10]

Ignorant is right. What a shit thing to say. Welcome to the ignore list.

You can put me on your ignore list too then.
This isn't his first time.
How many chances are you going to give him and pay him to boot!
He knew the consequences.

 

[Jets 31]

Yup. To me the biggest issue is reward recognition. How do you not properly reward Cole's excellent first half with ice time in line with his role and performance. All top employers know that recognizing achievement is among the most important factors in talent retention and keeping your employees engaged. But we as an org are so concerned with keeping aging and bad players happy.

To quote Bones when talking about Cole "Can't keep every player happy". But what organization makes the decision to keep a top performing member unhappy just because he's a junior employee? Just stupid logic to me and it's not really a surprise this org has crashed and burned out of the playoffs the last number of years. We are still very much about keeping the most senior players happy despite what has largely been underwhelming individual results over the years.

Dallas is an org that shows you what happens when you throw seniority out the window and juat look at performance.

Young or not Dallas has more overall talent than the Jets so i think it's easier to blend young players into their lineup and not skip a beat. I want to see some of our young players like Perfetti get more ice time and i think they will this season. Now if we struggle this season it will be very interesting how many people will go to the games.

 

[Jets 31]

I mistakenly thought that out of all of the prospects we have drafted in recent years, Perfetti would be the one they treated right. On one hand, benching him as our fifth best scorer makes zero sense, but on the other hand, it makes all the sense - that's the Jets' prospect experience in a nutshell. Do whatever you want, there's no reward in sight.

"But fourth in the league"
"But the early 2010s"
"But slump"
"But bad prospects"
"But no mental fortitude"
"But not everyone makes it"

GTFO. This team hasn't won enough to treat its prospects like we do.

Are you always angry? It seems that way. If we missed the playoffs or just snuck in i could maybe see the anger but we finished 4th overall in the NHL, that's not easy to do so it's hard to say the Jets organisation did the wrong things this season. We mightily sucked in the playoffs though that's for sure.

 

[Buffdog]

Ignorant is right. What a shit thing to say. Welcome to the ignore list.

Different people can have different takes on it. I know a guy who was pivotal in starting the nar-anon program in Manitoba years ago. His view was that recovery starts with ownership of one's actions. I guess this could devolve into a discussion about the concept of free will, but that's WAY off topic.

Personally, I come from a family history of alcoholism. When I choose to drink, I often find myself asking why I'm doing it, since I know it's terrible for me. I then have all the justifications. But there's definitely an inner dialogue

I also recognize the addictive nature of my genes and that's led me to make certain decisions, too. I watched how my parents were slaves to their cigarettes and vowed to never end up like that. That's why I never even tried smoking. I was always afraid I'd like it, and never be able to stop. Same with recreational drugs and painkillers (through multiple severe injuries and surgeries).

So Stumby does have a point in that whatever substance(s) you've struggled within the past, the first time you dabbled in them WAS your choice. That's not to say that getting clean is as easy as just making that choice either. It's obviously a complex and nuanced conversation that recognizes that everyone's biochemistry and learned experiences are different

 

[WolfHouse]

Young or not Dallas has more overall talent than the Jets so i think it's easier to blend young players into their lineup and not skip a beat. I want to see some of our young players like Perfetti get more ice time and i think they will this season. Now if we struggle this season it will be very interesting how many people will go to the games.

They weren't integrated... Duchene got hurt so Stankoven was called up - third line of Johnston, Stankoven and Benn looks like a good style of 3rd line for the Jets... Nino-Lambert-Chib?

Harley got called up for last playoffs - which is kind of what Chevy wanted us to do with Heinola when Maurice played Jordie Benn instead...

Johnston has kind of had the same opportunity as Perfetti but he didnt hit a slump - not going to argue that the toffoli signing was a miss.

 

[surixon]

I mistakenly thought that out of all of the prospects we have drafted in recent years, Perfetti would be the one they treated right. On one hand, benching him as our fifth best scorer makes zero sense, but on the other hand, it makes all the sense - that's the Jets' prospect experience in a nutshell. Do whatever you want, there's no reward in sight.

"But fourth in the league"
"But the early 2010s"
"But slump"
"But bad prospects"
"But no mental fortitude"
"But not everyone makes it"

GTFO. This team hasn't won enough to treat its prospects like we do.

They started out right with him as well. Last year he was played with good players and got second line ice time which was right in line with his performance. But for some inexplicable reason they cut his minutes this year despite performing better.

It wasn't just that, lets talk about our awful PP. We scored 2 and a 1/4 more goals per 60 with Cole on the top unit then without him. He was leading the team in pp goals and point production at the time. Yet after a few cold games he was removed amd our first unit went into the tank for months.

I'm beginning to think this org either has a major feat of passing off people who have committed long term or we have a hard time properly assessing performance. We can't afford to leave that production off the table and ice a bottom 10 pp when we clearly had combinations that yielded superior results.

So while on one hand we had a great year, it is infuriating to see how much we left on the shelf. That could have been the difference in us getting bounced or not.

 

[DRW204]

yeah, that part seems largely ignored around here...

All we need to do is replace a bunch of our higher TOI players with prospects. Play perfetti & samberg more. And we will be the Dallas Stars

 

[Maukkis]

Young or not Dallas has more overall talent than the Jets so i think it's easier to blend young players into their lineup and not skip a beat. I want to see some of our young players like Perfetti get more ice time and i think they will this season. Now if we struggle this season it will be very interesting how many people will go to the games.

The Stars once had Benn and Seguin as their top talent. Their coaching staff was clever enough to bump them down from their top units to give ice time to guys like, you know, Hintz and Robertson - that's the talent that is now making way for the Johnstons and Stankovens of the world. Nobody there is playing 20 a night, which helps them accommodate their talented youth into a role where they can actually make a difference. Aside from Heiskanen (who's a defenseman anyway), nobody is playing anywhere near "too much".

When you compare that to our system of two scoring lines, the Lowry unit and table scraps, you'll see the difference. We could incorporate new talent, but we're making it damn difficult for ourselves by not opening up the spots for our guys.

Are you always angry? It seems that way. If we missed the playoffs or just snuck in i could maybe see the anger but we finished 4th overall in the NHL, that's not easy to do so it's hard to say the Jets organisation did the wrong things this season. We mightily sucked in the playoffs though that's for sure.

Not angry (fortunately), but it's getting rather tiresome to see the same people pushing the same excuses for the same things that the organisation handles poorly in the same fashion.

 

[gojetsgo]

guess were back to ignoring the 1 point in 23 games lol, we have the best prospects in the league and the reason they don't reach their potential is because we don't play them 1st line minutes

 

[tbcwpg]

There's a wide misconception that rookies should be brought into the league like we do it - eight minutes a night with career ECHL level talent, just so that they don't get in the way of the rest of the team. That's a way to derail their careers, as we've seen numerous times with our guys. Can't make a good first impression when you have no support and no time to make things work.

The best way is to give them a significant role and talented linemates, so that they can actually find their feet and produce from the get-go. That's Dallas in a nutshell.


We truly are the best team in the league at scouting, drafting, and developing excellent talent that somehow doesn't materialise into NHL level production. Weird how that works.

I don't think 4th line minutes is the only way to bring in young players. We talk about rewarding Perfetti's play in the 1st half when the team's reward for putting him in that spot was next to no production for 20+ games. The way the Jets are constructed they can't really hide that drought in the top 6 and still succeed. When you have forwards like Hintz, Pavelski, Benn, Robertson, Faksa, Seguin, even Duchene this year, you can afford to give more responsibility to the younger guys. Lowry's line doesnt score. The 4th line doesn't score.

Harley can get minutes when his partner is someone like Suter or Heiskanen, or even recently Tanev, and not Neal Pionk.

Fortunately, as of now it looks like there'll be some opportunity in the top 6 next season.

 

[surixon]

Different people can have different takes on it. I know a guy who was pivotal in starting the nar-anon program in Manitoba years ago. His view was that recovery starts with ownership of one's actions. I guess this could devolve into a discussion about the concept of free will, but that's WAY off topic.

Personally, I come from a family history of alcoholism. When I choose to drink, I often find myself asking why I'm doing it, since I know it's terrible for me. I then have all the justifications. But there's definitely an inner dialogue

I also recognize the addictive nature of my genes and that's led me to make certain decisions, too. I watched how my parents were slaves to their cigarettes and vowed to never end up like that. That's why I never even tried smoking. I was always afraid I'd like it, and never be able to stop. Same with recreational drugs and painkillers (through multiple severe injuries and surgeries).

So Stumby does have a point in that whatever substance(s) you've struggled within the past, the first time you dabbled in them WAS your choice. That's not to say that getting clean is as easy as just making that choice either. It's obviously a complex and nuanced conversation that recognizes that everyone's biochemistry and learned experiences are different

I also have a family member who suffers from an addiction and once it came to light its been an incredibly hard last few years. I have a lot of empathy and compassion for people who suffer from them but I've found it incredibly hard to stay empathetic in cases where a person like in my situation chooses to reject all offers of help, and rejects that there is anything wrong while continuing abusive, toxic behavior while under the influence. We still try to be supportive but it's taken a lot of work and therapy just manage my own mental well being from the impact that it's had on my life.

I'm sharing this because the addiction doesn't just impact the addict, it can impact the people closest to them as well. It's a real hard situation and imo unless the person wants to seek help you are pretty much left feeling helpless.

 

[Maukkis]

I don't think 4th line minutes is the only way to bring in young players. We talk about rewarding Perfetti's play in the 1st half when the team's reward for putting him in that spot was next to no production for 20+ games. The way the Jets are constructed they can't really hide that drought in the top 6 and still succeed. When you have forwards like Hintz, Pavelski, Benn, Robertson, Faksa, Seguin, even Duchene this year, you can afford to give more responsibility to the younger guys. Lowry's line doesnt score. The 4th line doesn't score.

Harley can get minutes when his partner is someone like Suter or Heiskanen, or even recently Tanev, and not Neal Pionk.

Fortunately, as of now it looks like there'll be some opportunity in the top 6 next season.

It's an entirely different problem that we don't do anything about two of our forward lines not scoring, Pionk getting ice time, or whatever ails the top 6 at any given moment. And frankly, I'd give up our entire prospect pool to get us coaches who would fix broken shit. If Dallas had only taken one shot at constructing their lineup in a way that worked, they'd probably be in the same boat too.

 

[RustyCat]

You can put me on your ignore list too then.
This isn't his first time.
How many chances are you going to give him and pay him to boot!
He knew the consequences.

I can do that, but I am going to address this. I doubt it will change your mind but maybe someone reading can get some perspective.

You need to understand that the overwhelming majority of people who are addicts, booze drugs or otherwise, are wired long before they ever encounter the substance or behaviour. Addiction has been directly linked to historical and childhood trauma - if you need you can look into Dr. Gabor Mate's work on this. He is regarded as the world's leading physician on addiction, and just happens to be Canadian as well. The pathology is linked far before someone encounters a substance and is strongly influenced by environmental factors, especially as impressionable ages. This is the case for most addicts, not all, but most. I have met hundreds and hundreds of people in recovery programs and this is uniformly across the board. And just to confuse you even more, the substance or behaviour (ie: gambling or other process addictions) has nothing to do with the addiction. Thats why the irony of programs like AA is that is has nothing to do with alcohol recovery. It is because the essence of addiction has nothing to do what you take or when you take it, it has to do with how it has manifested in ones life and why they take it.

So did he know the consequences? Probably so. Was he powerless against the addiction and doomed to repeat it again and again and again? 100% he was with out proper supports and a solid recovery program. Every single person I know in recovery came to a point where they did not want to use or drink, but they did anyway. I woke up some days dead set on not drinking that day but would wind up, every single time, drinking. It is powerful beyond measure and there are no sufficient mental faculties to take it on by yourself. It is irrelevant on your gender, creed, ethnicity, profession, religion, or income - if you have some serious underlying trauma(s) that predispose you to be a significant risk, the you might be in a heap of trouble.

This is one of the most misunderstood diseases out there and the stigma out there is really bad. Because to a person, every person I know in recovery would loved to have had the choice to say no. It is far more complex that people think and it is not as simple as not taking a drug or a drink. The roots are much, much deeper and the current research supports that.

So you may say f*** this guy and put me on ignore, and that is fine. But I am going to continue to do what I usual do and that is to challenge the mainstream narrative and address misconceptions. And provided someone isn't a total ignorant asshole, I will gladly partake in a discussion.

 

[surixon]

guess were back to ignoring the 1 point in 23 games lol, we have the best prospects in the league and the reason they don't reach their potential is because we don't play them 1st line minutes

Would he have had that spell had he been rewarded and felt valued by his coach? Performance falls when you don't feel valued. It's why good organizations have very robust employee recognition programs.

I love how everyone is always so quick to be ok to use ice time as a means of punishment but not as a means of rewarding. Sure of he's not performing then cut it. But that wasn't applied equally to other team members. It certainly wasn't used to reward him when he was playing extremely well. He was being deployed with the worst top 9 ice time even when he was among the teams beat players.

Trust goes both ways. A player needs to trust the coach as well.

 

[WolfHouse]

The biggest challenge is the third line checking line be all end all.... Johnston, Stankoven got their feet wet on the 3rd line and then moved up... Dallas rolls four lines because they dont have top tier talent - Jets need to do the same

This season it really was 2nd line or 4th line as the options not just for rookies... I really liked Bones but that was far too rigid. Lowry is a bit of a problem because he's a very very solid player with meat hands - how do you play him without just calling it a shutdown line

 

[gojetsgo]

Would he have had that spell had he been rewarded and felt valued by his coach? Performance falls when you don't feel valued. It's why good organizations have very robust employee recognition programs.

I love how everyone is always so quick to be ok to use ice time as a means of punishment but not as a means of rewarding. Sure of he's not performing then cut it. But that wasn't applied equally to other team members. It certainly wasn't used to reward him when he was playing extremely well. He was being deployed with the worst top 9 ice time even when he was among the teams beat players.

Trust goes both ways. A player needs to trust the coach as well.

this is literally the lamest excuse I have ever read... perfetti struggled because his coach didn't believe in him!