Around The League II

[harpoon]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20132014&type=con#&navid=nav-stn-conf

Yeah I know. The Flames fortunes may take a turn for the worse just like the Avs. I certainly hope they do. Anyway, the Avs were I believe still mathematically in the playoff hunt tonight. Not bad. Lets not pretend they've sunk down to Oiler level.

But what does it matter? This season the Flames have delivered a decent result. Just like the Avs did. No point in pretending there needs to be an asterisk beside their record because some fans feel they've had success disproportionate to their abilities. To be honest that line of thinking sounds a bit sour coming from Oil fans.

Also, I think people take a weird view of success sometimes. For me, there are twenty nine losers every season. And by summer time nobody will really care too much about the exact ranking of the losers. When the Oilers were "respectable" middle of the pack losers under the EIG nobody was happy about it, so why all the Flame envy on this board. I don't get it.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Yeah I know. The Flames fortunes may take a turn for the worse like the Avs. I certainly hope they do.

But what does it matter? This season the Flames have delivered a decent result. Just like the Avs did. No point in pretending there needs to be an asterisk beside their record because some fans feel they've had success disproportionate to their abilities. To be honest that line of thinking sounds a bit sour coming from Oil fans.

Also, I think people take a weird view of success sometimes. For me, there are twenty nine losers every season. And by summer time nobody will really care too much about the exact ranking of the losers. When the Oilers were "respectable" middle of the pack losers under the EIG nobody was happy about it, so why all the Flame envy on this board. I don't get it.

I'm sure people are sour but if you actually watch the Flames play often they get hemmed in their own end for long stretches of time and then score on their limited chances. It's basically rope-a-dope. They have almost everything going their way from bounces to calls to teams stupidly playing their backup goalie (I'm looking at you, Nashville).

I for one don't believe for a second that the Flames have turned it around (history has shown that poor possession teams have it catch up to them), but with that being said, how is it almost every team can make the playoffs, fluke or not, while we toil in the bottom 3 for the 5th out of 6 seasons? It's actually statistically more unlikely to be this bad for this long than it is to do what the Flames are doing.

We haven't even sniffed the playoffs in 6 years and we haven't seen a playoff game in 9. We're likely to surpass the record for longest playoff drought, and the worst part is that we're not even remotely close to turning it around because the idiots up top pat themselves on the back like it's going out of style.

I partially agree on your point about success but it's all about scope. "Success" for the Oilers is making it to Christmas without being so far out of the playoffs that it's hopeless and we couldn't even make it to Halloween. And then MacT and Lowe will sell the fans on the pointless late season winning streak as hope for next year, barely do anything to the roster and then oops! Auston Mathews come on down!

Being an Oilers fan is bad enough but seeing every other team succeed in a fraction of the time makes it unbearable, no matter how much of an illusion it might be.

 

[harpoon]

I'm sure people are sour but if you actually watch the Flames play often they get hemmed in their own end for long stretches of time and then score on their limited chances.

Why would I ever do that? I doubt I've ever watched a Flames game (that didn't involve the Oilers) in my life. No interest at all.

but with that being said, how is it almost every team can make the playoffs, fluke or not, while we toil in the bottom 3 for the 5th out of 6 seasons? It's actually statistically more unlikely to be this bad for this long than it is to do what the Flames are doing.

That's really all I'm trying to say. You said it much more clearly.

Honestly I'm more concerned about the Wild than I am about the Flames. I'm starting to have nightmares of Dubnyk hoisting SC. To me that's the story of the season in the NHL.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why would I ever do that? I doubt I've ever watched a Flames game (that didn't involve the Oilers) in my life. No interest at all.

I admit I watch them from time to time. I don't like the Flames but they often provide more entertainment than our own sorry club.

That's really all I'm trying to say. You said it much more clearly.

Honestly I'm more concerned about the Wild than I am about the Flames. I'm starting to have nightmares of Dubnyk hoisting SC. To me that's the story of the season in the NHL.

Nobody's concerned about the Flames making waves in the playoffs, it's just the fact that they'll be there.

 

[AJGass4]

Makese sick. Dallas all over them in the third and they can't buy a goal.

 

[guymez]

Honestly I think the bitterness about the Flames success is kind of amusing.

What does it really matter if they (or the Canucks or Jets) succeed enough to make the playoffs?
Maybe it drives home the point about just how pathetic the Oilers have been but other than that it doesnt have any bearing on this team.

They play Sat night....it will be a good barometer to see if this team has improved and can compete with the Flames because they haven't been able to at any point so far this season. The Flames have had a relatively easy time the Oilers taking their lunch money pretty much at will.


This is next season country and next season is a more meaningful opportunity to gauge the Oilers improvement.

In the mean time this coming Sat night is a good opportunity for a little redemption.

 

[Replacement*]

I dunno about the theory you are advancing in this thread Replacement, or maybe its just my misunderstanding of what you're saying. Seems to me that you take what other teams give you every night, and every goal (lucky or silky) counts the same. You are probably right about some guys scoring over their heads, but its hard to say that they aren't deserving of those goals. I mean its the NHL, are there really that many freebies out there?

I think its definitely fair to say that teams take the Flames a lot more seriously than they do the Oilers. If the Flames are benefiting from not seeing opponents' best efforts, then how much more should the Oilers be reaping those same benefits and more? Yet somehow ....

I hate the Flames as much as anyone. That's why you'll never see me "respecting" them or "tipping my hat to them" as some have suggested we do. But I'm also not going to go out of my way to belittle a legit result this season. 41-28-7 , you don't fluke that record in this league.

They occasionally outwork opponents but in most games the Flames are outshot and outscored. They were again tonight and got outplayed badly for two periods and still manage to win the game.

Heres some more and thus my chronic "horseshoes" statement. Flames are 14-7 in Extra time. One of the better OT records in the NHL.

The flames are also 25W 16L in games when being outshot. Somebody explain that. Its VERY uncharacteristic for a team of plumbers to manage that type of feat. Usually its the handiwork of teams that can throw world class players out on the ice and still outscore teams when they are outworked. The Flames are somehow defying this conventional wisdom.

Finally, the Flames are 5th in the league in scoring. Take a long hard look at their lineup, particularly their forward lineup, and explain to me how this team has scored more goals than 25 teams. This is one of the most ordinary forward lineups in the league. Several players have more goals this year than they had ever, even in Junior hockey. Off the charts improbability.

I guess **** happens but sometimes you just shake your head at it happening simultaneously for every player on a team. We're talking easily a dozen career years here. Something that happens rarely.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Regarding the Flames... honestly buy-in and work ethic and good coaching and team chemistry is a powerful combination of drugs.

Just look at the situation with Eakins vs Nelson. The full season points pace differential between those 2 coaches is 28 pts (50 vs 78)... and it's quite easy to argue Nelson has had a much weaker roster than Eakins.

So there's an example on this Oilers team before our very eyes where we are seeing a near 30 pt differential just based on a coaching change that's brought in a fresh slate and got the players generally all on the same page playing as a TEAM again. This is with a team filled with injuries and AHL players as well... but the buy-in and team chemistry is obviously existent now to a much higher degree.

Back to the Flames... I can completely see how a team can be competing and getting results that defy "logic". A team certainly can be more than the sum of its parts... even over long stretches where you are constantly waiting for the collapse to come like a house of cards.

A team can continue to get results as long as the buy-in, compete levels and team chemistry are existent and as long as the coaching is in place that allows for that positive and winning environment to flourish.

I just hope we are seeing the seeds of that as well with Nelson and the Oilers as well.

 

[Replacement*]

Regarding the Flames... honestly buy-in and work ethic and good coaching and team chemistry is a powerful combination of drugs.

.

No, it is in the NHL. In other major sports leagues teams with the best, and highest touted, and highest paid athletes usually win. They are usually better.

In Baseball, in basketball, in football its far less probable that a mediocre team is seen consistently beating better teams on paper. In the NHL it happens every season. It happens every night, it happens all the time.

The problem, and I've said this often, is NHL games are just not as seriously competed as the games of most Pro sports. Regular season hockey games are largely random events, and impossible to call because its quite accepted for one or the other team to just not show up. In games I watch I don't know that theres even 25% of the time where I see both clubs competing hard in any one game.

To me its an absolute fail of the NHL product and which keeps it from being taken seriously in the US.

In the US if they'r seeing the top team in a pro sport play a far lesser team they're not expecting, or thinking its anything great if the top team loses ALL their games against an also ran team. For instance like Nashville/Calgary matchup. A US fan is going to consider that a joke every time it happens. They're going to deduce that the "good" team really isn't any good. But the problem is that casual fans will quickly deduce that there are few "good" teams in the NHL or teams worth watching and following. Teams that deliver a good game consistently. So they just consider it dreck and stop watching in time.

Americans tend to like to watch a good team and expect them to be a good team any time they turn on the channel. I don't blame them and I feel the same way. The NHL, as a league disappoints most of the time in this regard.

Its why I would never get Center Ice or immerse anymore than I do. The NHL product and standard of play just isn't worth it. I'm not going to spend countless hours of my life watching clubs usually half ass it out there.

 

[Peter Zezel]

The April 9th game, LA at CGY looks like it will be for all the marbles.

It's pretty impressive to see Calgary still in the hunt with Gio out.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Keep in mind this is a team that also lost 9 in a row earlier this season. Last night was another game they had no business winning. Jiri Hudler's career high in points prior to this year is 57, he has 71 this year. Dennis Wideman has also hit a career high in goals (keeping in mind he used to play for the "All-Offense" Capitals), and who exactly is Kris Russel and why did the Blues let him go for a song? The Flames are 5th in G/G this year after being 22nd last year despite barely adding any offense (Gaudreau and Raymond, the latter of which hasn't added much after his hot start).

If you look at their offensive numbers, they have 6 players with 40 points or more and half of them are defensemen (the other half are their top line), and they seem to get scoring from a lot of places, but they also seem to get some offense from the unlikeliest of sources when they need it (Diaz last night, Engelland with probably the first 2 goal game of his career a few games ago).

Obviously things can't remain this good, history tells us so, but a lot of these players aren't going to fall off significantly either (Monahan especially). The thing to think about here is that the Flames are on the cusp of a playoff berth with basically almost everything going their way, so if anything falters next year they'll probably take a step back, especially when you think about how porous they were the previous year.

Of course anything can happen and it's my hope as a bitter Oiler fan that they miss this year and as many years as possible.

 

[Gio4PM]

Keep in mind this is a team that also lost 9 in a row earlier this season. Last night was another game they had no business winning. Jiri Hudler's career high in points prior to this year is 57, he has 71 this year. Dennis Wideman has also hit a career high in goals (keeping in mind he used to play for the "All-Offense" Capitals), and who exactly is Kris Russel and why did the Blues let him go for a song? The Flames are 5th in G/G this year after being 22nd last year despite barely adding any offense (Gaudreau and Raymond, the latter of which hasn't added much after his hot start).

If you look at their offensive numbers, they have 6 players with 40 points or more and half of them are defensemen (the other half are their top line), and they seem to get scoring from a lot of places, but they also seem to get some offense from the unlikeliest of sources when they need it (Diaz last night, Engelland with probably the first 2 goal game of his career a few games ago).

Obviously things can't remain this good, history tells us so, but a lot of these players aren't going to fall off significantly either (Monahan especially). The thing to think about here is that the Flames are on the cusp of a playoff berth with basically almost everything going their way, so if anything falters next year they'll probably take a step back, especially when you think about how porous they were the previous year.

Of course anything can happen and it's my hope as a bitter Oiler fan that they miss this year and as many years as possible.

Sorry to butt in, but I don't think you can say things have gone Calgary's way - they lost Giordano and Smid for the season, as well as long-term injuries to Stajan, Backlund and Raymond. There was the losing streak as well, the kind that killed the Leafs this year. The goaltending has been average at best, too.

So why the big jump? Rookies, Brodie, Wideman, Russell, Hudler, Bouma and Monahan have had really good years. Will that change next year? Maybe for Wideman and Hudler, but not in a big way. Same for the rookies - there might be a sophomore slump but that's a one year thing. They add Bennett - that's good. Poirier, Ferland, Wotherspoon and Ortio are also set to advance. They make take a step back, but long term it's looking pretty decent.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Sorry to butt in, but I don't think you can say things have gone Calgary's way - they lost Giordano and Smid for the season, as well as long-term injuries to Stajan, Backlund and Raymond. There was the losing streak as well, the kind that killed the Leafs this year. The goaltending has been average at best, too.

So why the big jump? Rookies, Brodie, Wideman, Russell, Hudler, Bouma and Monahan have had really good years. Will that change next year? Maybe for Wideman and Hudler, but not in a big way. Same for the rookies - there might be a sophomore slump but that's a one year thing. They add Bennett - that's good. Poirier, Ferland, Wotherspoon and Ortio are also set to advance. They make take a step back, but long term it's looking pretty decent.

Yes they lost Giordano and no doubt that's huge. I don't consider any of the other injuries you mentioned significant, though I know Backlund has been good for the Flames. The goaltending was amazing for the Flames early in the season when they were still finding their way and while it has regressed you don't usually see Hiller or Ramo let in softies that we're so used to seeing here.

There's a lot of factors to consider here though. Last night for instance for most of the game the Stars hemmed the Flames in their end and took a 2-1 lead. A shot by Hudler goes off a Stars defensemen's skate and into the net to tie the game and Diaz puts them ahead not long after and that was that, despite furious pressure by the Stars in the final frame.

Not everyone on the Flames will regress, that's a fact, but how does a guy like Lance Bouma score more goals in an NHL season than he has at any other point in not just his NHL career, but his hockey career probably dating back to midget days. There's also Josh Jooris, potting more goals than he has since he was in the OJHL. The Flames are getting an unbelievable amount of scoring for a team that is largely unchanged since last year.

Also it's unreasonable to believe that all players will come in from the AHL and have an immediate impact. Ortio for instance had a stretch of really good games (including a game he stole in Vancouver) before coming back to Earth.

My question about the Flames is this: What changed between this year and last year to cause such a jump? Other than a new GM and a new starting goalie the Flames are largely the same team from last year (though one could definitely make a case for the addition of Gaudreau, but teams add rookies every year).

While one can certainly admire the work ethic the Flames have put in, there's just so many warning flags for me that immediately bring to mind the Avalanche of yesteryear. There's too many guys having career years for it to remain constant, and will that expectation for the new year become the norm or will they crumble? The Flames aren't going to sneak up on teams anymore.

 

[Gio4PM]

Yes they lost Giordano and no doubt that's huge. I don't consider any of the other injuries you mentioned significant, though I know Backlund has been good for the Flames. The goaltending was amazing for the Flames early in the season when they were still finding their way and while it has regressed you don't usually see Hiller or Ramo let in softies that we're so used to seeing here.

There's a lot of factors to consider here though. Last night for instance for most of the game the Stars hemmed the Flames in their end and took a 2-1 lead. A shot by Hudler goes off a Stars defensemen's skate and into the net to tie the game and Diaz puts them ahead not long after and that was that, despite furious pressure by the Stars in the final frame.

Not everyone on the Flames will regress, that's a fact, but how does a guy like Lance Bouma score more goals in an NHL season than he has at any other point in not just his NHL career, but his hockey career probably dating back to midget days. There's also Josh Jooris, potting more goals than he has since he was in the OJHL. The Flames are getting an unbelievable amount of scoring for a team that is largely unchanged since last year.

Also it's unreasonable to believe that all players will come in from the AHL and have an immediate impact. Ortio for instance had a stretch of really good games (including a game he stole in Vancouver) before coming back to Earth.

My question about the Flames is this: What changed between this year and last year to cause such a jump? Other than a new GM and a new starting goalie the Flames are largely the same team from last year (though one could definitely make a case for the addition of Gaudreau, but teams add rookies every year).

While one can certainly admire the work ethic the Flames have put in, there's just so many warning flags for me that immediately bring to mind the Avalanche of yesteryear. There's too many guys having career years for it to remain constant, and will that expectation for the new year become the norm or will they crumble? The Flames aren't going to sneak up on teams anymore.

Not much changed on personnel, other than rookies Gaudreau, Jooris, Ferland and Granlund (and a few other shorter stints), and Hiller and Raymond (who's been out a lot anyway). They also added more minor parts like Engelland, Bollig, Shore and Schlemko (mid season).

There have been guys who've stepped it up - Brodie, Russell and Bouma for sure. I doubt that these are career seasons for them though (maybe Bouma). I think you can make a case for career seasons from Hudler and Wideman and maybe Giordano. But I also don't see major declines for those guys either.

Also, if you look at the Flames' record in the last half of last season, they were a consistent winning team then as well. And is it really shocking that guys like Raymond, Jones and Backlund are giving depth scoring? They've each done it before.

 

[Paper]

My question about the Flames is this: What changed between this year and last year to cause such a jump?

Well last season with Giordano in the lineup the team was 30-28-5 for a respectable 85 point pace in a season where 91 points got you in the playoffs. Their biggest problem was without Giordano they went 5-12-2. One of the big reasons even some of the most optimistic Flames fans thought that Giordano going down was the end of the run.

The biggest difference is this year the have been somehow able to compete without Giordano for these last 15 games. Maybe no one should have been surprised to see the Giordano-lead team fighting as a playoff bubble team with Monahan maturing and Gaudreau entering the league.

 

[Gio4PM]

They occasionally outwork opponents but in most games the Flames are outshot and outscored. They were again tonight and got outplayed badly for two periods and still manage to win the game.

Heres some more and thus my chronic "horseshoes" statement. Flames are 14-7 in Extra time. One of the better OT records in the NHL.

The flames are also 25W 16L in games when being outshot. Somebody explain that. Its VERY uncharacteristic for a team of plumbers to manage that type of feat. Usually its the handiwork of teams that can throw world class players out on the ice and still outscore teams when they are outworked. The Flames are somehow defying this conventional wisdom.

Finally, the Flames are 5th in the league in scoring. Take a long hard look at their lineup, particularly their forward lineup, and explain to me how this team has scored more goals than 25 teams. This is one of the most ordinary forward lineups in the league. Several players have more goals this year than they had ever, even in Junior hockey. Off the charts improbability.

I guess **** happens but sometimes you just shake your head at it happening simultaneously for every player on a team. We're talking easily a dozen career years here. Something that happens rarely.

I don't think they are being outscored in most games.

How have they scored more than 25 other teams? A great (but not elite) first line. 3 more guys (Jones, Raymond, Backlund) who are all guys who have scored at over 20 goal paces in the past. They had Glencross for the majority of the year, too. 3 d-men who can score. And one surprise scorer (Bouma).

I don't think there are a dozen career years. Maybe 2 or 3. Wideman, Hudler and maybe Giordano.

 

[Replacement*]

Sorry to butt in, but I don't think you can say things have gone Calgary's way - they lost Giordano and Smid for the season, as well as long-term injuries to Stajan, Backlund and Raymond. There was the losing streak as well, the kind that killed the Leafs this year. The goaltending has been average at best, too.

So why the big jump? Rookies, Brodie, Wideman, Russell, Hudler, Bouma and Monahan have had really good years. Will that change next year? Maybe for Wideman and Hudler, but not in a big way. Same for the rookies - there might be a sophomore slump but that's a one year thing. They add Bennett - that's good. Poirier, Ferland, Wotherspoon and Ortio are also set to advance. They make take a step back, but long term it's looking pretty decent.

I can't even remotely agree with this and the stats don't bare it out. One needs to look at more than just GAA and Save %. Calgary gives up a plethora of great scoring chances and especially since the Gio injury. Game after game the goaltending is superlative, standing on its head, and to a degree that fans might expect the goalie to be stopping everything. Yesterday the Stars dominated 2 out of 3 periods but had the one lul where Calgary piled in the goals and won the game.

As I mentioned earlier Flames are 25-16 in games where they are outshot and this being incongruous to the lineup you have. For some reason Calgary has been able to fill the net far beyond what should be the case considering lineup.

So you've have had far better than expected GA and far better than expected GF. In addition to having one of the best extra time records in the league. All those things add up to a kind of fortune which isn't often replicated, cites Avalanche.

 

[Replacement*]

I don't think they are being outscored in most games.

How have they scored more than 25 other teams? A great (but not elite) first line. 3 more guys (Jones, Raymond, Backlund) who are all guys who have scored at over 20 goal paces in the past. They had Glencross for the majority of the year, too. 3 d-men who can score. And one surprise scorer (Bouma).

I don't think there are a dozen career years. Maybe 2 or 3. Wideman, Hudler and maybe Giordano.

Typo. Meant to say outshot and outchanced.

Career years: (easy)

Gaudreau, Hudler, Monahan, Wideman, Russel, Giordano, Brody, Bouma, Joorish, Colbourne, Hiller, Ramo,

Theres a dozen already. Ridiculously if I dug harder I could even add to the list. EVERY one of these players have had the best NHL year yet and/or more than could reasonably be expected in cases of rooks like Gaudreau.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

To make something clear, when I say the Flames will regress, I mean just a few spots back in the standings. I don't mean they'll fall back to the bottom 5 in the league.

 

[Paper]

Game after game the goaltending is superlative, standing on its head, and to a degree that fans might expect the goalie to be stopping everything. Yesterday the Stars dominated 2 out of 3 periods but had the one lul where Calgary piled in the goals and won the game.

This isn't remotely true though. Hiller let in the easiest goal of the game 40 seconds in. It was just one of the many softies that have become expected of the goaltenders. He may have redeemed himself in what was one of the worst third periods the Flames have ever played this season. 0.914 and 0.912, nothing to write home about.

Typo. Meant to say outshot and outchanced.

Career years: (easy)

Gaudreau, Hudler, Monahan, Wideman, Russel, Giordano, Brody, Bouma, Joorish, Colbourne, Hiller, Ramo,

Theres a dozen already. Ridiculously if I dug harder I could even add to the list. EVERY one of these players have had the best NHL year yet and/or more than could reasonably be expected in cases of rooks like Gaudreau.

Gaudreau - rookie year.
Hudler - fair enough. The one career year that actually shatters the expectations or past performances of the player on this list.
Monahan - sophomore year.
Wideman - while likely, he has yet to reach his career high 50 points.
Russell - the exact same 35 point pace he put up last year.
Giordano - going to miss over a quarter of the season.
Brodie - a 24 year old defenseman having his best season yet? Yeah, that's not unheard of or unusual in the least.
Bouma - fair enough. Although he is playing on the second line which is something he'll likely never have the opportunity to do again.
Jooris - fair enough.
Colborne - fair enough.
Hiller - this is absurd. He's had higher save percentages in higher scoring years.
Ramo - his 0.912 isn't all that different than his 0.911 last year.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

For goalies stats aren't always indicative of how good they are (case in point: Dubnyk).

While Hiller/Ramo have cooled off a bit there were stretches earlier in the season where the goalie for the Flames was always number 1 star. What's even more interesting is that despite having similar stats to last year, Ramo seems so much better this year, perhaps pushed by the addition of Hiller?

Even when Ortio came up for his brief stint he was stellar the first couple of games before he faded.

 

[Chyep]

I disagree that the flames injuries haven't been significant. Yes. You can scratch any one of those centers and maybe not miss much. But the Flames lost there 3 top centers all at the same time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I disagree that the flames injuries haven't been significant. Yes. You can scratch any one of those centers and maybe not miss much. But the Flames lost there 3 top centers all at the same time.

I'm pretty sure Sean Monahan has been healthy all season. That Flames top line is usually more than enough.

 

[Gio4PM]

Typo. Meant to say outshot and outchanced.

Career years: (easy)

Gaudreau, Hudler, Monahan, Wideman, Russel, Giordano, Brody, Bouma, Joorish, Colbourne, Hiller, Ramo,

Theres a dozen already. Ridiculously if I dug harder I could even add to the list. EVERY one of these players have had the best NHL year yet and/or more than could reasonably be expected in cases of rooks like Gaudreau.

That's silly. Career year means (to most people anyway) the best year you ever have in your career. Not the best year in your career so far. That's why you'd expect regression after a career year.

By your definition, Monahan's had 2 career years, and pretty much every year Giordano has played, both befoer and after Russia has been a career year.

ETA: Your definition means that Ferland and Poirier have had career years with their 3 and 1 points respectively. David Wolf's zero points is a career year.

 

[guymez]

I don't think they are being outscored in most games.

How have they scored more than 25 other teams? A great (but not elite) first line. 3 more guys (Jones, Raymond, Backlund) who are all guys who have scored at over 20 goal paces in the past. They had Glencross for the majority of the year, too. 3 d-men who can score. And one surprise scorer (Bouma).

I don't think there are a dozen career years. Maybe 2 or 3. Wideman, Hudler and maybe Giordano.

The Flames have the 5th best Goal differential in the Western Conference...9th best overall.

You dont carry that goal differential with luck.
As a team they are consistently driving the play in the right direction.
Very determined well coached team thats very resilient and hard to play against.

We shall see how well the (new and improved) Oilers do against the Flames on Saturday night.