Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

[Legion34]

In a nutshell, he took an aging team and doubled down on it. There were already some tough contacts on the books, and now there are more.

Which led to them dealing their only young-is core pieces Guentzel .. for a lacklustre return.

Yep. This doesn’t mean everything he did in Toronto was bad. Doesn’t mean he won’t be good for the pens in the future. But it’s just reality

 

[BallardEra]

Pens still feel they have a chance!:

Remaining schedule offers Penguins chance to make up ground, but time is running out

It’s hard to make an official tally of every moment this season where all hope of making the playoffs evaporated for the Pittsburgh Penguins. There have been many such instances and games, plenty of them still fresh in mind. Off the ice, the pre-deadline trades of star winger Jake Guentzel

triblive.com

 

[PromisedLand]

Ummm.... I don't know about this...... what about you folks?

 

[ULF_55]

In a nutshell, he took an aging team and doubled down on it. There were already some tough contacts on the books, and now there are more.

Which led to them dealing their only young-is core pieces Guentzel .. for a lacklustre return.

How much will Guentzal sign for?
Anyone can sign him this summer, even the Penguins.

Hanifin, Lindholm in same boat.

 

[Menzinger]

How much will Guentzal sign for?
Anyone can sign him this summer, even the Penguins.

Hanifin, Lindholm in same boat.

Probably 8-9ish mil I'm guessing. Safe bet is o er 8.5.for Guentzle

Lindholm has the higher chance of signing a one year show me deal. But as a centre he'll at least have the option of some longer term offers

 

[Menzinger]

Ummm.... I don't know about this...... what about you folks?

I'm all for it. While favorably edited for teams, there's usually a few interesting bits in these things that skip through

 

[ULF_55]

Ummm.... I don't know about this...... what about you folks?

I might watch it if I'm repainting the living room.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas had plenty of cap space and money to make the team better.

He had cap space because he opened it up himself, and he did improve the surrounding group, but there's not much you can do when age catches up with your core.

He took on a 10 million dollar defenseman
A 4.5 million dollar defenseman
Neither fit a need. They had a top pairing RHD on a top pp and decided to change it.
We already saw that karlson doesn’t work well like that (burns) graves makes too much and didn’t help. Hasn’t done well. He traded guentzel for a 31-62nd pick and lower tier prospects.
And traded a realistic best case 15th overall pick/worst case 2025 1st overall pick in the karlson deal

They needed defensemen. Graves helped them improve defensively, and Karlsson was the biggest fence swing they could do without expending significant assets to both clear out cap and acquire somebody. And if they were going to go for it, they needed a fence swing. The cost of adding Karlsson and clearing cap space is looking to be somewhere between 8th and 18th overall, and they'll likely have the ability to recoup some similar assets when they sell him off down the line. Hardly the end of the world. Karlsson is not the issue with the PP. He's not the one struggling to convert. It's the other guys that were already there. And let's just say that's a pretty bad representation of the Guentzel trade.

The team was old and declining. Owners didn't want to give up. Minimal assets were invested to give it one more go. Improvements couldn't outpace age and injuries, they decided to sell, and now they enter their extended rebuild and accumulate assets back. Pretty standard.

 

[NinjaKick]

the pens are rebuilding without a top 10 pick this year, or even worse, a top 5 pick next year

news flash... no rebuild, they just suck.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

How much will Guentzal sign for?
Anyone can sign him this summer, even the Penguins.

Hanifin, Lindholm in same boat.

I'm unsure why any of these three would sign back with their former respective teams.

I could perhaps see Lindholm if he believes he is most valued by the Flames than he would on any other team. But a guy like Guentzel will have an array of options at his disposal that I feel going back to a rapidly declining Penguins team wouldn't be the best career choice.

 

[Legion34]

He had cap space because he opened it up himself, and he did improve the surrounding group, but there's not much you can do when age catches up with your core.

They needed defensemen. Graves helped them improve defensively, and Karlsson was the biggest fence swing they could do without expending significant assets to both clear out cap and acquire somebody. And if they were going to go for it, they needed a fence swing. The cost of adding Karlsson and clearing cap space is looking to be somewhere between 8th and 18th overall, and they'll likely have the ability to recoup some similar assets when they sell him off down the line. Hardly the end of the world. Karlsson is not the issue with the PP. He's not the one struggling to convert. It's the other guys that were already there. And let's just say that's a pretty bad representation of the Guentzel trade.

The team was old and declining. Owners didn't want to give up. Minimal assets were invested to give it one more go. Improvements couldn't outpace age and injuries, they decided to sell, and now they enter their extended rebuild and accumulate assets back. Pretty standard.

An 11-13 pick or an unprotected potential lottery pick, a second to get worse is not minimal assets.

Just like dubas trading 1 1 2 3 4 was not minimal assets.

They aren’t minimal assets because you say so. He traded futures. His team got worse and he locked into more long term contracts with older players.

If giving up an early teens 1st is minimal. What is the return for guentzel? Miniscule?

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

LMAO if the Caps make the playoffs. They had zero intentions of competing, and yet here they are, in the best position to make it over the other bubble teams. OV with a couple tonight to surpass 20 goals

A few really awful games in the past month tanked Lindgren's numbers. Would've been in the Vezina conversation otherwise imo

 

[BallardEra]

LMAO if the Caps make the playoffs. They had zero intentions of competing, and yet here they are, in the best position to make it over the other bubble teams. OV hits 20+ goals

A few really awful games in the past month really tanked Lindgren's numbers. Would've been in the Vezina conversation otherwise imo

They have been letting the young guys play and they have looked pretty decent. Carberry looks like a pretty smart coach who brought instant accountability to the team.

Ovechkin:

8 goals in his first 43 games
13 goals in his last 21 games

 

[BallardEra]

 

[LeafEgo]

He had cap space because he opened it up himself, and he did improve the surrounding group, but there's not much you can do when age catches up with your core.

They needed defensemen. Graves helped them improve defensively, and Karlsson was the biggest fence swing they could do without expending significant assets to both clear out cap and acquire somebody. And if they were going to go for it, they needed a fence swing. The cost of adding Karlsson and clearing cap space is looking to be somewhere between 8th and 18th overall, and they'll likely have the ability to recoup some similar assets when they sell him off down the line. Hardly the end of the world. Karlsson is not the issue with the PP. He's not the one struggling to convert. It's the other guys that were already there. And let's just say that's a pretty bad representation of the Guentzel trade.

The team was old and declining. Owners didn't want to give up. Minimal assets were invested to give it one more go. Improvements couldn't outpace age and injuries, they decided to sell, and now they enter their extended rebuild and accumulate assets back. Pretty standard.

You're just ignoring reality and trying to come up with creative ways to explain why bad is good.

The Pens were balancing two objectives this year (ironically similar to the Leafs as a result of what was left): improve the compete level in the near term, while being mindful of the future. The Pens are on track to spectacularly fail both.

They are now looking to not compete at all, invested just to go backwards, and perform at their worst in the cap era. Their future might take a catastrophic hit - losing out on a future core piece for the rebuild (think Stutzle, Byram).

We can be thankful that in Toronto we have put together a better prepared playoff team for this years run without losing any of what few meaningful assets we have left.

 

[Dekes For Days]

An 11-13 pick or an unprotected potential lottery pick, a second to get worse is not minimal assets.

They spent a 2nd, but got a high 3rd + 7th back, so in the end, it's essentially one mid-1st round pick, and they got:
1. To clear out some bad contracts and create cap space.
2. The reigning Norris winner to give the owners and the core that literally saved the franchise their last shot.
3. An asset to recoup futures with when it's time for a rebuild.
That is a pretty reasonable cost for all of that, and they did improve; just not enough to outpace their aging core, injuries, and selling off pieces.

he locked into more long term contracts with older players.

I'm not sure why age matters all that much when they're about to enter an extended rebuild, but outside of Karlsson (who finishes his contract at essentially the age the rest of the core are now, and who was acquired in a trade that actually decreased the number of old players they had), the long term contracts they signed were both players in their 20s.

What is the return for guentzel? Miniscule?

No, because contrary to the belief of some around here, prospects (which was the return they even said they were prioritizing) aren't worthless.

You're just ignoring reality and trying to come up with creative ways to explain why bad is good.

No, I'm looking at what actually happened, instead of making exaggerations and misrepresentations to incorrectly assign blame.

The Pens were balancing two objectives this year: improve the compete level in the near term, while being mindful of the future.

And that's what they did. They improved their team as best as they could without spending a bunch of unrecoupable futures, and when age and injuries started catching up to the existing core, they prioritized the future and sold.

Their future might take a catastrophic hit - losing out on a future core piece for the rebuild (think Stutzle, Byram).

You're very unlikely to get a Stutzle or Byram with a 8th-18th overall pick, and whatever hit they took is likely going to be somewhat countered out by the future return they'll get back for Karlsson.

We can be thankful that in Toronto we have put together a better prepared playoff team for this years run without losing any of what few meaningful assets we have left.

We spent 6 picks and a prospect at the deadline to be much less prepared for the playoffs than we have been in years.
We can however be thankful that in Toronto, our previous GM left some good prospects to help our team this year and into the future.

 

[Bomber0104]

the pens are rebuilding without a top 10 pick this year, or even worse, a top 5 pick next year

news flash... no rebuild, they just suck.

Yup, usually teams as terrible as the Dubas-led Pens (with his NHL Be-A-GM Mode off-season overhaul of the roster) would be wise to keep their first round pick, but since he's bound to no such silly common conventions, the rest of us just get to sit by and watch the fraud continue to absolutely botch yet another team's future....

They better hope they can play themselves out of the bottom-ten this year otherwise they're in real jeopardy of losing a lottery pick next year.

I'd feel pretty bad for the fans of the team but probably just laugh my ass off at yet another epic Dubas blunder, truthfully. Major relief it's with another team now and not ours.

 

[Peasy]

Yup, usually teams as terrible as the Dubas-led Pens (with his NHL Be-A-GM Mode off-season overhaul of the roster) would be wise to keep their first round pick, but since he's bound to no such silly common conventions, the rest of us just get to sit by and watch the fraud continue to absolutely botch yet another team's future....

They better hope they can play themselves out of the bottom-ten this year otherwise they're in real jeopardy of losing a lottery pick next year.

I'd feel pretty bad for the fans of the team but probably just laugh my ass off at yet another epic Dubas blunder, truthfully. Major relief it's with another team now and not ours.

The hilarious thing to me is that they decided to keep and pick 14th overall last year, but then move their first for next year. Youre telling me that you couldnt have swung that trade at the draft? Not doin that deal at the draft just put them in such a worse position moving forward. I know there wasnt much time to do that, but you should be able to see the writing on the wall with that team. As soon as the Karlsson trade happened I said it was a bad move. Its even more insane that dubas that Karlsson in Toronto would have been a good idea. Like wtf are you looking at to think that would have been a good acquisition for the leafs at this time. That tells me everything I need to know.

And the people goin on about how they got karlsson for "free" . I really hope the sharks get a stud with that pick to rub it in even more. Sharks got a better return for Karlsson than Dubas did for Guentzel.

And hyping up the prospects they got lmao. At the very best, one of them might become a top 6 fixture. But the more reality is that their careers are bottom 6ers, middle 6 if youre lucky, and i doubt even all 3 have long NHL careers. More likely its just 1. Man got taken to the cleaners everywhere since hes become Pitts GM. Dubas is going to realize quick how difficult it is to build an NHL team when you dont have the best active goal scorer in the game, and two superstar wingers.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[aingefan]

How?

How long was this game?

 

[uncleben]

This is the Around the League thread, so this is the right spot to talk about it, but can we try not to dominate the thread with the same Penguins/Dubas talk over and over again?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lol, that was crazy. Like the hockey version of an alley-oop. Not sure I've ever seen that.

How long was this game?

It went to 5 overtimes.

 

[BallardEra]

How?

How long was this game?

Russian goalie Artemi Pleshkov sets pro hockey world record with 124-save game

Pleshkov played 157-plus minutes of shutout hockey before allowing the game’s lone goal.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[All Mod Cons]

Sam Lafferty with 5 points in his last 37 games. The outcry and despair when this guy was traded was such a strange thing to see.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm unsure why any of these three would sign back with their former respective teams.

I could perhaps see Lindholm if he believes he is most valued by the Flames than he would on any other team. But a guy like Guentzel will have an array of options at his disposal that I feel going back to a rapidly declining Penguins team wouldn't be the best career choice.

I agree, just that as UFA you either hold on to them and watch them walk away or you sell and get assets.

Penguins re-signing him probably doesn't help their rebuild.