Around the League - 2023/24

[henchman21]

we aren't in 2017 anymore tho. Material procurement has really changed imo. Maybe not as bad in the states but things are a mess up here

I don't think it is as bad. The most recent example we have in the states is UBS Arena... where it was announced in Dec 17, groundbreaking in 2019, dealt with Covid and the whole New York gov't mess, and was opened in Nov 21. The Intuit Dome in LA broke ground in Sept 21 and is expected to be ready this August. Now that had some real legal hurdles dating back years... but that was really settled in March 2020. So from that point a bit over 4 years.

Arizona, in theory, should be easier than NYC or LA... but probably not the ~3 years it takes in Nevada. IMO ~4 is a reasonable target. Which means it pretty much has to settle out by next summer to hit the 5 year window.

 

[dahrougem2]

There are diehards of every team... and any movement of franchises honestly sucks for them. I feel for those people. I feel for the hockey organizations around Arizona that rely on the Coyotes' support. The local people who are employed by the org who won't be moving. The coverage teams. etc.

Where I don't feel bad is that the economic reality of the situation has to change. A small arena is a fun novelty, but not sustainable long-term. Even if they were making money finally, it wasn't much and wasn't enough to really have a long-term plan. The fact that they simply couldn't get any building funded and working. The best hope here is something in ~27 or 28 and even then there was backlash already brewing to make it a fight. Hockey will be back in Arizona. There is about zero chance the NHL ignores that market. It needs to come with better ownership and a realistic arena that can give the organization a fighting chance. Meruelo honestly shouldn't be the guy. The NHL should wait him out and wait for a legitimate owner who can run things properly and in more of a Foley manner.

The NHL as a whole will be stronger after this, and they still have two other markets where they can expand to for big money. By the end of the decade, I'd bet plans for 36 teams are cemented with Arizona, Houston, and Atlanta all being a part of that.

Maybe dumb question but why can't Phoenix work? Is the owner of the Suns that adamant about his distaste for NHL hockey?

 

[henchman21]

Maybe dumb question but why can't Phoenix work? Is the owner of the Suns that adamant about his distaste for NHL hockey?

The footprint center is just not a good place for hockey (obstructed views and bad sightlines) and the revenue deal prior made it so it was difficult for the Coyotes to actually make money there. It was like the Delta Center will be view wise, but with a different owner that could charge as much rent as he wants.

The Suns have had their own ownership issues and I think that has played into this whole mess. Sarver was forced to sell after he said some racist stuff. Sarver was never a fan of the Coyotes... he made that very clear throughout his tenure. He wouldn't work with them at all and rumors are out there of how much he tried to undermine them. Ishiba is not a Phoenix guy... just a right mortgage exec who had the money at the right time to join a club. I don't think he's particularly invested the area as much as having a play toy and a new in to real estate development when he can force through a new arena himself. I wouldn't be shocked if Ishiba ends up a part of a group down the line, but I also don't think he's all that interested in the NHL either.

 

[Bender]

Did you guys see the NHL commercial featuring the Avs yesterday ??

Frikkin' hilarious!!!

 

[Balthazar]

Did you guys see the NHL commercial featuring the Avs yesterday ??

Frikkin' hilarious!!!

No. What was funny?

 

[Bender]

No. What was funny?

Found it!




Enjoy

 

[LOFIN]

Atlanta again? How many times do you go back to that well? Having been there a few times it is a fine city but not a hockey city IMO.

Was Vegas a hockey city? Funny what happens when the team is given a fair chance and is not run by idiots. Neither has happened with Arizona and Atlanta. And because of the size of those markets, the NHL will continue to try until they get it right.

And then there's Houston. If not expansion, Winnipeg will move there eventually.

 

[henchman21]

Was Vegas a hockey city? Funny what happens when the team is given a fair chance and is not run by idiots. Neither has happened with Arizona and Atlanta. And because of the size of those markets, the NHL will continue to try until they get it right.

And then there's Houston. If not expansion, Winnipeg will move there eventually.

Yeah... Tampa wasn't a hockey city and now has one of the best franchises in the league. Nashville nearly moved, and is now very stable and successful. Carolina wasn't stable and once they started being good with an owner who'd spend, they sellout every game. Good ownership and good teams bring attendance... the fanbase will follow. It may not be perfect and there will be down years... and when franchise stars move on, things struggle. But for the most part, get a good owner, build a winner, and you'll get enough attendance anywhere.

Sometimes you don't even have to win. Just have an owner that cares and has shown they will support when they are winning, and you can build a fanbase. Just look at Columbus. That team won under Torts and ownership should they'd support as much as they could. After Torts left, they still showed they'd support and bring in players. Even with a terrible team they are now averaging 17k fans. (which this is a great long-term sign for Columbus as a market) Just give a shit, try to win, and have a decent barn.

The quality of ownership will ultimately determine the success or failure of the expansion franchises. Historically, the NHL has not been great at having the best owners. I think you could make a case they have turned that around, but we probably need to see how Smith and the next expansion owner play out.

I'm pretty disappointed in Winnipeg... they don't have a huge arena, so they should be pretty easy to fill. The team also just hasn't been bad. They haven't been elite, but the drop off in support is not great. It makes it so the economics of a franchise takes precedence over contending. IE they couldn't have sold this year and did a full rebuild as they just couldn't financially afford it. So they will have to just keep trying to win as long as they can and then try to be a mushy middle team to at least give the hope of staying in the playoffs to get that revenue.

 

[henchman21]

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/17935

 

[LOFIN]

“I agree with Commissioner Gary Bettman and the National Hockey League, that it is simply unfair to continue to have our Players, coaches, hockey front office, and the NHL teams they compete against, spend several more years playing in an arena that is not suited for NHL hockey,” said Arizona Coyotes Chairman & Governor Alex Meruelo. “But this is not the end for NHL hockey in Arizona. I have negotiated the right to reactivate the team within the next five years, and have retained ownership of the beloved Coyotes name, brand and logo. I remain committed to this community and to building a first-class sports arena and entertainment district without seeking financial support from the public.”

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/17935

 

[henchman21]

This line is the key for Meruelo:

"In addition, the Board approved a plan that renders the Arizona Coyotes franchise inactive, with a right to reactivate if owner Alex Meruelo has fully constructed a new, state-of-the-art facility appropriate for an NHL team within five years."

Fully constructed. Given the 3-4 year timeline to build an arena, work probably need to start at the tail end of 2025 to be ready fall 2029. It will be very interesting to see if that can happen.

 

[LOFIN]

This line is the key for Meruelo:

"In addition, the Board approved a plan that renders the Arizona Coyotes franchise inactive, with a right to reactivate if owner Alex Meruelo has fully constructed a new, state-of-the-art facility appropriate for an NHL team within five years."

Fully constructed. Given the 3-4 year timeline to build an arena, work probably need to start at the tail end of 2025 to be ready fall 2029. It will be very interesting to see if that can happen.

Pretty sure the NHL would not be strict on the 5 year window if he actually managed to get shovels on the ground during the next few years. But what are the chances of that happening TBH, given how hard it was already with a team.

 

[AvBuff]

This line is the key for Meruelo:

"In addition, the Board approved a plan that renders the Arizona Coyotes franchise inactive, with a right to reactivate if owner Alex Meruelo has fully constructed a new, state-of-the-art facility appropriate for an NHL team within five years."

Fully constructed. Given the 3-4 year timeline to build an arena, work probably need to start at the tail end of 2025 to be ready fall 2029. It will be very interesting to see if that can happen.

Meruelo has to find (and buy) the land, get it zoned, set up infrastructure (water, plumbing, electricity), hire an architect, draft the plans, find a GC . . . and build and complete in 5 years. And he's gotta do it on the come. Good luck with that.

Unfortunately, history has shown that that guy can't operate lemonade stand. Meruelo lost an election to a landfill, ForGodsake. Not sure why the NHL would give him another bite at the apple.

 

[henchman21]

Pretty sure the NHL would not be strict on the 5 year window if he actually managed to get shovels on the ground during the next few years. But what are the chances of that happening TBH, given how hard it was already with a team.

My feeling is that the NHL is pretty much done with Meruelo. This 5 year window is his last chance. If he can't complete it on time, IMO they'll work out a deal for him to relinquish his rights elsewhere.

Muerelo has to find (and buy) the land, get it zoned, set up infrastructure (water, plumbing, electricity), hire an architect, draft the plans, find a GC . . . and build and complete in 5 years.

Unfortunately, history has shown that that guy can't operate lemonade stand. Muerelo lost an election to a landfill, ForGodsake. Not sure why the NHL would give him another bite at the apple.

Probably a legal issue... they are basically forcing this sale, so they are giving him a concession of a franchise if he can execute. If he can't, they can wash their hands of him completely.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I hope they just make the team name the Utah Hockey Team.

 

[Bender]

 

[henchman21]

I hope they just make the team name the Utah Hockey Team.

A non zero chance they start out that way.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

I hope they just make the team name the Utah Hockey Team.

A non zero chance they start out that way.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The window for Murelo also probably shines some light on the NHLs next expansion timeline tbh.


I'd bet they want 34 teams by 2029. Opening the door for one of those teams to be Arizona if they get an arena, if not, they'll go like Atlanta and Houston.


For the comedic value I hope Arizona does get an arena in place and the team they get ends up being the Winnipeg Jets relocation.

 

[Bender]

Oh so Gary will only be meeting 1 of his wives??

 

[LOFIN]

I think that’s just Smith not wanting to reveal all at once. I’d be surprised it they dont have a team name by the start of the season, he has been working on this for years. Although as a European, simple ”Utah HC” would be fine by me as a permanent team name. Been a standard at this continent for 150 years.

 

[Bender]

Go Utah!!!

 

[Pokecheque]

Doesn’t he have to give back the billion he gets from Smith if he brings the Coyotes back? If that’s the case 0 chance he’s gonna win that auction.

I believe so.

Oh and the story with Doan’s banner is far worse than I imagined. Apparently it was left at Gila River Arena, and when staff there started taking stuff down they contacted the Coyotes and said “Hey isn’t anyone gonna come get this” and no one did, so they THREW IT AWAY and some random Yotes fan fished it out of the dumpster. Unf***ingbelievable.

 

[Pokecheque]

 

[Vaslof]

Utah Blizzard sounds great to me. I wonder why.
Venom or Fury not so much.
Utah Hockey Club is fine. UHC isn't taken by anything right?