Sensfourlife
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- Aug 22, 2020
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Proposal: Arizona-Ottawa
- Thread starter Sensfourlife
- Start date
The Moose is Loose
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Seems bad for the Yotes. Schmaltz is a solid top 6 guy who is still young and the Senators are offering magic beans
seroes
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Spare parts for a top 6 player. You should really look at fair value for when you make proposals.
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Magic Beans are great though. Look at Brown, he could be anyone, he could even become the next Nick Schmaltz.
So when did Logan Brown become a schmuck? His AHL PPG were outstanding over two years. Has great size. Plus you get a d man taken in the mid first round. I'd do that if I was Arizona who has a crap d core.
BondraTime
Registered User
A 24 year old top-6 guy usually nets: A bottom-6 forward, a 1st, and a "B" tier prospect, or, in lieu of that, an an "A" tier prospect + a 2nd. Unless there are major concerns with play, contract issues, or injury issues. That is the price.
Your offer doesn't fit what people expect, you're offering two "B" tier prospects and a 2nd. Although the second might be close to a 1st in value (because it is the Sens), your whole deal lacks a high quality piece.
A better deal would be something like: Lassi Thomson/Abramov/Brown/etc.. + lottery protected 1st (turns into 2X2 seconds or something), + a bottom-6 forward. That way the Coyotes at least get 4 solid pieces if they don't get a first. Ottawa simply can't give up an unprotected 1st.
Now, obviously some people will say it is too little and some too much, but those people would be wrong. Dozens of examples of trades like that. The value is pretty consistent.
Your offer doesn't fit what people expect, you're offering two "B" tier prospects and a 2nd. Although the second might be close to a 1st in value (because it is the Sens), your whole deal lacks a high quality piece.
A better deal would be something like: Lassi Thomson/Abramov/Brown/etc.. + lottery protected 1st (turns into 2X2 seconds or something), + a bottom-6 forward. That way the Coyotes at least get 4 solid pieces if they don't get a first. Ottawa simply can't give up an unprotected 1st.
Now, obviously some people will say it is too little and some too much, but those people would be wrong. Dozens of examples of trades like that. The value is pretty consistent.
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Maurice of Orange
Wahatquenak
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Wouldn’t take the deal from Arizona’s perspective, Schmaltz lead the Yotes in points last season and is top 6 on that team.
Logan Brown and Lassi Thomson don’t move the needle all that much since Brown hasn’t been a scorer in the OHL or AHL so that leads me to believe Logan Brown will probably end up a bottom 6 playmaker/grinder type of player if he can carve out an NHL career and Lassi Thomson was just drafted last year so it’s really early to project what he might be as an NHL defender and is also going to be developing for atleast 2 seasons before he makes a jump to North America.
Logan Brown and Lassi Thomson don’t move the needle all that much since Brown hasn’t been a scorer in the OHL or AHL so that leads me to believe Logan Brown will probably end up a bottom 6 playmaker/grinder type of player if he can carve out an NHL career and Lassi Thomson was just drafted last year so it’s really early to project what he might be as an NHL defender and is also going to be developing for atleast 2 seasons before he makes a jump to North America.
This proposal (Brown+ for Schmaltz) was already done a couple of weeks ago. In general, both sides declined. Most Ottawa fans would prefer to see what Brown becomes rather than commit to that big contract coming back.
Your views on Brown and Thomsen are both incorrect btw...
Brown has been a dominant OHL and AHL player who has been slowed down by injuries. He is also very unlikely to be a grinding bottom 6 player. He’s a “top 6 or bust” guy.
Thomsen is currently loaned to his European team by Ottawa and will be in NA for the upcoming season (though it’s true he’s likely a couple of years away from realising NHL potential).
awful. What a woof/whiff of a deal by OP. Let’s fix this for something that actually hurts the Sens.
Brannstrom and Pinto plus 2nd round pick 2021 for Schmaltz. Sens get top 6 forward. AZ gets a good dman prospect and some kinda interesting magic beans.
Stuzchuk
Registered User
that's not enough for Schmaltz IMO... Most likely ARI would be looking at Erik Brännström+ coming back for Schmaltz
I'd go after Stepan instead... low salary vs caphit, cheaper return for OTT, better mentor for the kids in OTT
also, I expect Stützle to spent 2-3 years on the wing and center before being a full time center in the NHL... so we need s many centers that they'Re willing to keep in the organisation
I'd go after Stepan instead... low salary vs caphit, cheaper return for OTT, better mentor for the kids in OTT
also, I expect Stützle to spent 2-3 years on the wing and center before being a full time center in the NHL... so we need s many centers that they'Re willing to keep in the organisation
DarthProbert
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- Feb 3, 2015
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Yotes absolutely take that. They get to dump a VERY questionable contract. Schmaltz is absolutely not a Toccchet player, and it looks like nothing can get Tocchet fired. I don't care what hfboards consensus is, Ottawa calls AZ with this offer, it's done in an instant. It's Ottawa who'd say no. They don't need Schmaltz's contract around when all their kids need new deals.
Maurice of Orange
Wahatquenak
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I somewhat disagree with the assessment of Logan Brown, he has dealt with injuries throughout his time in juniors and his professional career but seeing the way he has played for Windsor Kitchener, Belleville and Ottawa has shown me that Brown is more of a big 2-way pass first playmaker rather then a shoot first scorer.
If I had to put my money on Brown being a top 6 player or a bust I’d go with the latter but I’m not going to call Brown a bust because I believe he can carve out an NHL career for himself but he needs to shoot the puck more at the NHL level if Brown wants to be successful.
I would say he would probably be somewhere between a 2nd or 3rd line center (mid 6) if giving an opportunity but the Sens staff has been giving him the ride every step of the way so his time and opportunities in Ottawa are seeming to dwindle as the seasons go by.
Problem with Logan Brown is not Logan Brown himself it’s the Ottawa coaching staff that hasn’t put much stock into his game or trusted him enough to give him more playing time it also didn’t help when Logan Brown was sent down to Belleville at the beginning of last season in favor of lesser players and his agent voiced his displeasure with the way the Senators were handling Brown’s development.
This season should be telling for Logan Brown but he probably won’t have a full season to prove his worth so staying healthy is key if the Senators see Brown as apart of their future.
SensFactor
Registered User
I'd rather keep those pieces and use them to see what we have. Logan Brown is about to get his chance to show if he's a real NHL player this year and live up to his 11 overall draft year selection.
Dr Quincy
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PoutineSp00nZ
Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Neither Thompson or Brown are spare parts. Brown is very much a hit or miss star forward. If he puts it together he has all the tools to be a dominant player, but he hasn't found a way to do that yet. So it's a dice roll on him.
Thompson is a bit more likely to make the jump, but doesn't have the same star potential.
Not sure thats enough for such a young, and already established forward anyway. But Brown is the kinda player that you hate to trade . . . maybe he fades away into nothing, but if he hits . . . damn thats a trade Ottawa would regret making.
Thompson is a bit more likely to make the jump, but doesn't have the same star potential.
Not sure thats enough for such a young, and already established forward anyway. But Brown is the kinda player that you hate to trade . . . maybe he fades away into nothing, but if he hits . . . damn thats a trade Ottawa would regret making.
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I don't think you'll ever find some one who calls him a shoot first player and I agree he needs to shoot the puck more often but that's not will hold him back from being a top 6 player. Logan is a highly skilled player who see's plays that most don't, the part holding him back is perhaps his motor and skating. I personally think both parts are at all level that he can be effective in the NHL but I understand if some don't see it that way. He's never going to be a bottom 6 player, if he is in the NHL he needs PP time and offensive opportunities, I really don't see how someone looks at Logan Brown and see's a bottom 6 grinder, his bread and butter is his offensive talent.
From what I gather Brown doesn't shoot the puck enough to be considered a top 6 player in your eyes but Schmaltz is even though he has 217 shots in 162 games.
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Maurice of Orange
Wahatquenak
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Difference is Schmaltz is a proven NHL player and lead his team in points last season and Brown is trying to prove himself.
Check your numbers on Schmaltz he has 341 shots in 249 NHL games you only counted his numbers when he was with Chicago.
I’m not a fan of either team so I’m not a defender of Schmaltz or Brown hopefully, Logan Brown finds a place in Ottawa’s lineup as I would like to see him succeed.
If you want to tear down Schmaltz that’s fine but I wouldn’t be looking at his shot totals, I’d be looking at his goal and point totals for a supposed top 6 player that’s being paid 5.85mil x 6 seasons.
- Feb 5, 2010
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I’m not here to tear down Schmaltz. I’m just confused with your assessment of Logan Brown. You are right I looked at the wrong row on hockey reference when looking at Schmatlz’s shot totals but my point stands. It’s not something that would prevent Brown from being a productive player. If you don’t think Brown can overcome his deficiencies to become a productive NHL player that’s fine but him being a pass first player isn’t one of them. He is a highly skilled playmaker, that’s what will make him successful at the next level. Projecting him as a bottom 6 grinder is perplexing.
GMBA was just hired. He will assess the Coyotes once the season starts. He already knows that the captain called out the coach by stating he was willing to waive his nmc, even though (as reported) he didn't want to go. With 1F, 5D, 1G with expiring contracts, and no expectations of re-signing any (except, maybe, Hjmarlsson), I expect the priority is to find trades for those players and not for other established players. That is the priority, but can include other players in deals that include NHL-ready and established players.
This looks like a lost season, so there is no rush to change coaches at this time. Tocchet is on an expiring contract.
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