Confirmed with Link: [ARI/NYR] Derek Stepan and Antti Raanta for 7th overall and Anthony DeAngelo

[Hinterland]

I'm sure his numbers will take a hit when his tendencies get known (and also playing behind our team).

Exactly what's gonna happen. I mentioned it earlier. Smallish goalkeeper with average movement. He's able to make up for it with decent positioning but he won't be able to cheat if he's asked to play more than 30 games. Aaron Dell is a similar case. Very good backup but just not starter material since his movement isn't good enough to make up for the lack of size. He's not gonna be the next Talbot because he's smaller and has less experience. Talbot played two 40+ games seasons in the AHL and played 36 games in his last season for the Rags. 6 games more than Raanta.

Stepan is however an underrated player because he isn't "sexy". He does what he has to do and he does it well.

I would've wanted something more too be honest.

I think Raanta is a starter. He should've gotten a 2nd on his own.

Stepan is signed for 4 years, he's been our #1C. And we've been to the conf finals and the finals with him as our #1C.

7th overall + DeAngelo should've been just for Steps IMHO.

You traded a promsing D-man who has attitude issues, that's a bit risky from the Rangers side. While you get a great C who can help you become a real threat longterm.

I would've wanted something more but all in all, I'll take it.


I think you won this trade.

/Rangers fan

Raanta is a typical backup. There's no indication that he'd be anything more than that. I can only repeat myself here. We're talking about an already 28yo smallish goalie with average movement/mobility who never played more than 30 games a season and so far got to play for winning teams only.
Would be quite a sensation if he'd be capable of, all of a sudden, be a starter for a team like the Coyotes. In all fairness, but that would be a major jump that's not likely gonna happen.

Nothing against Stepan. The other problem here is that you're seriously underestimating what DeAngelo can do. Huge talent. Great mobility and for a defender, he's extremely skilled. Huge offensive potential and when he's at his best, he's also able to play solid defense. I think he had some confidence issues after he got demoted following the suspension and that's why he didn't play too well after that. But surely, he doesn't have attitude problems. Not that I heard of. There was that story about him as a kid but he came across as a very calm and composed guy while playing for the Coyotes. Last seasons suspension was a complete joke. You see that almost every other game, really. Corey Perry heavily abused a ref during the playoffs and didn't even get a hearing.

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

I think I've seen more of Raanta than you. He's not a new Cam Talbot, but he's good enough to start and win games for you.


I guess we'll have to see who's right.

 

[Hinterland]

I think I've seen more of Raanta than you. He's not a new Cam Talbot, but he's good enough to start and win games for you.


I guess we'll have to see who's right.

Well, he hardly played in NA so unless you followed him closely in Chicago and in the AHL already, I highly doubt you've seen much more than me.

 

[Jakey53]

Why are you lying? Smith played two 40+ games seasons in the AHL and two more 40+ games seasons in the NHL before playing for the Coyotes. The maximum Raanta ever got was 30 and he only did it once. Before you're trying to do more Johnson bashing, read my posts above. 6 times he played more games in north american pro hockey than Raanta ever did.

Raanta's number don't mean anything since he played for winning teams only (if you read my posts you'd know by now. Starting to feel like a certain bird having to repeat everything several times)...Darling and Talbot, the ones who played for his former clubs after and before, both had way better numbers than him. In fact, if I'm right, Raanta even lost his backup job in Chicago to Darling.

I meant the first 4 yrs. NHL. I don't give a rats a-- how they played in the AHL. The last three years, Darling and Raanta's stats are almost identical and they both played for winning teams. I do like Talbot, Darling and Raanta, and I think Darling and Raanta will follow in Talbots footsteps and prove how good they are. I hope that Johnson can land a #1 role somewhere, he has paid his dues, but I don't want it to be here.

 

[Jakey53]

I don't agree with all of what Hinterland is saying, I think Raanta will be pretty damn good, but I would've preferred we pay less and leave him out of the trade. If we could've done just 7 for Stepan with maybe a small add and just signed Ocho Cinco or Mason or whatever else I would've preferred it.

Mason would have cost a fortune. For me, losing that 7OA hurts because I don't think Stepan is a 1C, but it takes two teams to make a deal. Most times you have to give to get.

 

[hbk]

I think we paid less than full price for two key players for this franchise going forward. I did swallow hard when Vilardi fell though. Overall I don't know how you can look at this draft and be that upset with the assets we acquired and the role they are going to play in bridging gap until this team is ready to compete for a playoff push.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm not sold on Raanta. He could be great, but there's this assumption around the league that he'll be a #1 for sure, the next Talbot... I hope he does well, I'm happy we added him but if he doesn't do well it won't surprise me. I also wish he was like 2 years younger but w/e.... If he was that may have increased to cost to acquire him.

If he doesn't play well he is gone next year and we lose the trade. If he plays well as Smith we win the trade and can sign him long term.

 

[Jakey53]

Exactly what's gonna happen. I mentioned it earlier. Smallish goalkeeper with average movement. He's able to make up for it with decent positioning but he won't be able to cheat if he's asked to play more than 30 games. Aaron Dell is a similar case. Very good backup but just not starter material since his movement isn't good enough to make up for the lack of size. He's not gonna be the next Talbot because he's smaller and has less experience. Talbot played two 40+ games seasons in the AHL and played 36 games in his last season for the Rags. 6 games more than Raanta.



Raanta is a typical backup. There's no indication that he'd be anything more than that. I can only repeat myself here. We're talking about an already 28yo smallish goalie with average movement/mobility who never played more than 30 games a season and so far got to play for winning teams only.
Would be quite a sensation if he'd be capable of, all of a sudden, be a starter for a team like the Coyotes. In all fairness, but that would be a major jump that's not likely gonna happen.

Nothing against Stepan. The other problem here is that you're seriously underestimating what DeAngelo can do. Huge talent. Great mobility and for a defender, he's extremely skilled. Huge offensive potential and when he's at his best, he's also able to play solid defense. I think he had some confidence issues after he got demoted following the suspension and that's why he didn't play too well after that. But surely, he doesn't have attitude problems. Not that I heard of. There was that story about him as a kid but he came across as a very calm and composed guy while playing for the Coyotes. Last seasons suspension was a complete joke. You see that almost every other game, really. Corey Perry heavily abused a ref during the playoffs and didn't even get a hearing.

I really hated losing AD, but he does not yet play a solid defensive game, and he was pushed off the puck all the time. With the puck on his stick he is dynamite. I wish we could have kept him some how.

 

[rt]

I think we paid less than full price for two key players for this franchise going forward. I did swallow hard when Vilardi fell though. Overall I don't know how you can look at this draft and be that upset with the assets we acquired and the role they are going to play in bridging gap until this team is ready to compete for a playoff push.

Yep. Totally agree. We needed strong leaders with proven track records and a ton of experience winning a ton of big games on the biggest of stages. The experience of Stepan and Hjalmarsson just dwarfs the kind of experience our last batch of leadership could offer. Chayka said it best when he mentioned that we have a ton of great young players coming up and what we didn't have until Friday was anyone who could show them "how it's done".

When you bring in premier players from premier teams, it delivers credibility to the room and to the club. Our product has a much stronger air of credibility now. It's important to have placeholders who have proven that they can excel in those front line roles why your kids develop behind them rather than bargain basement placeholders that are miscast in those premier roles, and struggle in them, start that cascade of failure right from the top lines down.

My idea was to hoard assets and sticks cast-off bandaids in these roles. That feels very Edmonton Oilers Rebuild 1.0 or very Colorado Avalanche. I think this is the smarter gamble. It's cost more. We lost a good draft pick, Anthony DeAngelo and Connor Murphy in the process. That's a tough pill to swallow. But now we have top pieces who can bridge the gap and we lost no top prospects in the process.

 

[Prestigeworldwide]

Nothing against Stepan. The other problem here is that you're seriously underestimating what DeAngelo can do. Huge talent. Great mobility and for a defender, he's extremely skilled. Huge offensive potential and when he's at his best, he's also able to play solid defense. I think he had some confidence issues after he got demoted following the suspension and that's why he didn't play too well after that. But surely, he doesn't have attitude problems. Not that I heard of. There was that story about him as a kid but he came across as a very calm and composed guy while playing for the Coyotes. Last seasons suspension was a complete joke. You see that almost every other game, really. Corey Perry heavily abused a ref during the playoffs and didn't even get a hearing.

First person to ever say that about DeAngelo. He has great upside offensively but he needs massive work on his own end....and stop generating dumb penalties.

 

[jacobhockey13]

First person to ever say that about DeAngelo. He has great upside offensively but he needs massive work on his own end....and stop generating dumb penalties.

Nope. For the Coyotes this year, he was generally good defensively.

 

[lanky]

How did we pay less than full price for These players? It was an open trade market with 29 other teams welcome to submit bids. It took place after the expansion draft, early in summer with lots of time for teams to adjust their cap structure. We got these guys at or above market value. If it was below market value, we would have had someone out bid us.

Edit: I retract this argument. It's dumb and fails to acknowledge that there can be good or bad value in any trade. I'm just bitter that we didn't draft Necas.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Nope. For the Coyotes this year, he was generally good defensively.

True, he played much better defensively than I would have thought given his reputation coming to the Coyotes. He's going to be a fantastic player, but the issue is whether he can be an integral part of the room and help everyone 'push' in the same direction.

We needed to give up something good for Stepan and he was basically low man on the totem pole with what they wanted to give up.

Top Young Players:
Domi
Keller
Chychrun
Strome
Dvorak
Perlini
Duclair
Fischer
Crouse
DeAngelo

Everyone else doesn't have the same value:
Wood
Merkley
Capobianco
Dineen
MacInnis
Garland

 

[DesertDawg]

Hated losing DeAngelo, but Domi & Duclair needed a center. Haven't paid too much attention to Raanta, hope he makes the transition to starter!
I would like the 'Yotes to bring back Hanzal, but I don't think that will happen.
Would have loved it if we got Hamonic. Still got a hole in the defense, but not as big as it once was.

 

[Jakey53]

Nope. For the Coyotes this year, he was generally good defensively.

One of the reasons he was sent down to the A was to work on his D. When teams fore checked hard which led to pressure on DeAngelo he lost most of the board battles and the puck. Losing him hurt much more than Murphy.

 

[Hinterland]

I meant the first 4 yrs. NHL. I don't give a rats a-- how they played in the AHL. The last three years, Darling and Raanta's stats are almost identical and they both played for winning teams. I do like Talbot, Darling and Raanta, and I think Darling and Raanta will follow in Talbots footsteps and prove how good they are. I hope that Johnson can land a #1 role somewhere, he has paid his dues, but I don't want it to be here.

You shouldn't underestimate AHL games. Especially for a goalie it's important to get used to the rhythm of NA pro hockey. Even more so for Europeans. It's not the same to play 40 games in Europe. Tougher schedule, more travelling, different rinks. To pay for a 28yo smallish goalie with average mobility who played a maximum of 30 games in NA like he'd be a starter is just nuts. Sorry to say. Again, his stats mean nothing. Other backups for these teams had identical if not better numbers but are bigger and have more experience. Apart from his stats, there's zero indications he could be able to be a starter for a (currently) bad team like the Coyotes.

I would like Raanta if the Coyotes didn't have to give up a big piece of the future like DeAngelo and that 7 overall it to make it happen. Since they already had the rights of Johnson this makes even less sense.
My guess that the Rags wanted to get rid of Raanta and Chayka was stupid enough to even pay them for that.

One of the reasons he was sent down to the A was to work on his D. When teams fore checked hard which led to pressure on DeAngelo he lost most of the board battles and the puck. Losing him hurt much more than Murphy.

Didn't they send him down following his suspension? Until then, he was really strong defensively. Seemed to have confidence issues afterwards. Tough to swallow such an unfair suspension. De Angelo is gonna be much better than most people think. And unlike others, I also liked his personality. Didn't strike me as a problem at all. Every team needs strong characters.

 

[Ebb]

I would like Raanta if the Coyotes didn't have to give up a big piece of the future like DeAngelo and that 7 overall it to make it happen. Since they already had the rights of Johnson this makes even less sense.

Well, what's done is done. I'm a bit mixed on moving DeAngelo as well, but I think it's what we needed to do to improve the team (or at least give it a new look).

In terms of Raanta, it seems logical to pay him 1 million for a year to see if he can be a starter or share with LD 45g/37g; after all, LD makes 50,000 more than Raanta, so perhaps he'll be the starter but I doubt it). If he does well, we can consider re-signing him for a few seasons (if he wants more term we can move on and find another goalie). Honestly, I think Johnson was just insurance for the Coyotes in case we coudn't find a potential starter. Or (more likely) to lessen the cost of acquiring Raanta since it appears that the deal had been talked about for a while. I would have been fine with either Johnson or Raanta.

DeAngelo, as much as I liked him, wouldn't make or break the team, imo. He has oodles of potential, but I'm not sure it will all come together for him (but it would have been nice to see if he improved without Tipp). Either way, we ended up with a mediocre 1C and a potential starting Goalie for a #3D/#2D and #7OA (which could have been Vilardi, Mittelstadt, Tippett, or Necas). Yes, we overpaid a bit, but probably not as much as we could have.

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

Well, he hardly played in NA so unless you followed him closely in Chicago and in the AHL already, I highly doubt you've seen much more than me.

I've seen him in a few chicago games, every rangers game. And I've seen him live in finland and on TV when he was over there actually.

I live close to Finland .

55 GP with the Rangers, around 15 with the Hawks. Probably 5 or so games in Finland. And I've seen him play for team Finland as well.

That's around 80 games in total.

 

[patnyrnyg]

He might be worse than Schenn. But I might be being influenced by just how much Rangers fans around here hate him

Either way I agree that one of that type is enough.

He's a lot better than Schenn. Rangers fans are not know for being reasonable. He was the 1C, so they expect him to be on the same level as Crosby, who is also a 1C.

 

[Jakey53]

Yep. Totally agree. We needed strong leaders with proven track records and a ton of experience winning a ton of big games on the biggest of stages. The experience of Stepan and Hjalmarsson just dwarfs the kind of experience our last batch of leadership could offer. Chayka said it best when he mentioned that we have a ton of great young players coming up and what we didn't have until Friday was anyone who could show them "how it's done".

When you bring in premier players from premier teams, it delivers credibility to the room and to the club. Our product has a much stronger air of credibility now. It's important to have placeholders who have proven that they can excel in those front line roles why your kids develop behind them rather than bargain basement placeholders that are miscast in those premier roles, and struggle in them, start that cascade of failure right from the top lines down.

My idea was to hoard assets and sticks cast-off bandaids in these roles. That feels very Edmonton Oilers Rebuild 1.0 or very Colorado Avalanche. I think this is the smarter gamble. It's cost more. We lost a good draft pick, Anthony DeAngelo and Connor Murphy in the process. That's a tough pill to swallow. But now we have top pieces who can bridge the gap and we lost no top prospects in the process.

I agree. I didn't want to do a trade this year and lose any young core player until we had a better idea of what we had. AD is the only young core player we lost, but losing him hurts, mind you, we have no idea how he acted like in the room.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

What a fuss over a rookie defenseman. Our history has shown us that it is much easier to find a quality top 4 D than a 1C. Had they traded one of our young centers I would have been upset.

 

[Jakey53]

What a fuss over a rookie defenseman. Our history has shown us that it is much easier to find a quality top 4 D than a 1C. Had they traded one of our young centers I would have been upset.

For me losing the 7OA is what hurts. We have no idea what happens behind closed doors and how everything goes down, but I would have kept Smith and offered the Rangers the 23OA and AD. Why were the Rangers so willing to trade Stepan?

 

[cobra427]

For me losing the 7OA is what hurts. We have no idea what happens behind closed doors and how everything goes down, but I would have kept Smith and offered the Rangers the 23OA and AD. Why were the Rangers so willing to trade Stepan?

Cap space. Also, AD was a border line NHL player with tons of tools but the question mark is his tool box. AD might or might not turn into a good NHL player. He might be going to his third team for a reason. He was bad defensively and had too many turnovers. if he was good defensively, as some have said, there is no way he gets traded in this package.

We know for sure what we got in the trade, a 1C/2C to take the tough minutes the next few years, while Strome/DVO/Keller develop. The 7OA and AD are risks that might or might not pay off for NY.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I would like Raanta if the Coyotes didn't have to give up a big piece of the future like DeAngelo and that 7 overall it to make it happen. Since they already had the rights of Johnson this makes even less sense.
My guess that the Rags wanted to get rid of Raanta and Chayka was stupid enough to even pay them for that.

DeAngelo was not a big piece of the future. He was - and is - a project. He is on his third team in three years. That should indicate to you what his true value is.

I've already shown you Raanta's numbers in the NHL. Raanta is a better goalie than Chad Johnson. And the Coyotes made it to the playoffs with Ilya Bryzgalov as our starter and Mikael Tellqvist as the backup, so I really don't understand all this angst about a goalie who's not only leaps and bounds better than those two, but also better than any goalie option we have had in the time since.

Seemed to have confidence issues afterwards. Tough to swallow such an unfair suspension. De Angelo is gonna be much better than most people think. And unlike others, I also liked his personality. Didn't strike me as a problem at all. Every team needs strong characters.

DeAngelo has many issues, but one of them is NOT confidence. And I really would like to see your personal definition of "strong character" if you're going to use that descriptor for DeAngelo.

What a fuss over a rookie defenseman. Our history has shown us that it is much easier to find a quality top 4 D than a 1C. Had they traded one of our young centers I would have been upset.

It's the appetite for puck-movers around here. There are people who still talk about Yandle and wishing he'd come back, and Yands is two teams and three years removed from Arizona.

For me losing the 7OA is what hurts. We have no idea what happens behind closed doors and how everything goes down, but I would have kept Smith and offered the Rangers the 23OA and AD. Why were the Rangers so willing to trade Stepan?

I'll give you $6.5M over five years' worth of reasons.

Raanta is an upgrade over Mike Smith - perhaps not in flashiness or total innate skill, but in attitude, consistency, and performance. And even if he falls flat on his face this year (which is not likely), we aren't tied to him beyond next season. Getting rid of Smith was a no-brainer.

As for 7OA, when we were in the F40 chat room watching the draft, I got the sense as everything unfolded that the Coyotes' staff really didn't think very highly of the forward corps available this year - they waited 75 picks before picking up their first one. And defense being as much of a developmental crap shoot as it is, waiting until 23 to draft in order to acquire a pair of desperately-needed assets seemed like acceptable risk.

For me, 7OA was the most valuable piece we gave up on draft day. But Stepan is a better #1 center than Hanzal was, and while he may not be better in the long run than, say, a Dvorak or a Strome (if Dylan pans out), RIGHT NOW he plugs an enormous hole in our lineup. I think we got fair value in the trade and if we had to do it over again, I would do it without question.

 

[Jakey53]

Cap space. Also, AD was a border line NHL player with tons of tools but the question mark is his tool box. AD might or might not turn into a good NHL player. He might be going to his third team for a reason. He was bad defensively and had too many turnovers. if he was good defensively, as some have said, there is no way he gets traded in this package.

We know for sure what we got in the trade, a 1C/2C to take the tough minutes the next few years, while Strome/DVO/Keller develop. The 7OA and AD are risks that might or might not pay off for NY.

I agree, I know why the Coyotes did this deal, but if you have a 1C, you have to find room for him some how. Maybe, they feel they have someone they can promote to take Stepans place.