"Are You Not Entertained?"

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yeah sure, I'll leave that to you since you enjoy the role of contrarian.

John McKenzie was flat out dirty.

You may also recall a guy named Bobbie Clarke that played in the 1970's.

As for Dan Maloney:

"As a member of the Red Wings, he was the third NHL player to be charged by local authorities with a crime resulting from action on the ice. In the second period of a 7–3 loss to Toronto at Maple Leaf Gardens on November 5, 1975, Maloney came to the defense of teammate Bryan Hextall by attacking the Maple Leafs' Brian Glennie from behind, flattening him with a right‐hand punch, hitting him several more times and repeatedly lifting and dropping him, face first, to the ice. Glennie sustained a mild concussion. Despite Glennie's hit on Hextall being described by The Associated Press as "a clean check," Maloney claimed the force of the contact was excessive and that he had no intention of injuring him. He was charged with assault by Attorney General of Ontario Roy McMurtry the following day on November 6,[1] but was acquitted just under eight months later on June 30, 1976."

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

 

[Gordoff]

John McKenzie was flat out dirty.

You may also recall a guy named Bobbie Clarke that played in the 1970's.

As for Dan Maloney:

"As a member of the Red Wings, he was the third NHL player to be charged by local authorities with a crime resulting from action on the ice. In the second period of a 7–3 loss to Toronto at Maple Leaf Gardens on November 5, 1975, Maloney came to the defense of teammate Bryan Hextall by attacking the Maple Leafs' Brian Glennie from behind, flattening him with a right‐hand punch, hitting him several more times and repeatedly lifting and dropping him, face first, to the ice. Glennie sustained a mild concussion. Despite Glennie's hit on Hextall being described by The Associated Press as "a clean check," Maloney claimed the force of the contact was excessive and that he had no intention of injuring him. He was charged with assault by Attorney General of Ontario Roy McMurtry the following day on November 6,[1] but was acquitted just under eight months later on June 30, 1976."

Aaah the good ol' days! This isn't the kind of stuff that I remember or focused on. Most of this stuff is out of the game today but there are still occasionally players who lose their minds and do dumb stuff no matter the period whether it's 1976 or 2023.
I used McKenzie as an example of a tough little guy, like Marchand who could flatten someone 6 inches taller. In Johhny's case he'd beat them with his fists.
Bobby Clarke? Yes, dirtiest SOB in the league.
Look, there's no reason to go back to the bench clearing brawls of 1974 but
players using the boards as a weapon and launching themselves 8 strides in to try to put another thru the boards is worse IMO than 2 guys occasionally squaring off.
The other thing is the league letting things like the Trouba high stick to Trent Frederic's head isn't the answer either.
I'm so glad things are so civilized and we're so enlightened now.
BTW, what did John McKenzie ever do that was so egregious?
I don't remember him in particular doing anything to end a career or put someone out of a career.

 

[bobbyorr04]

NHL is like a tractor trailer being driven by committee. Bettman is the guy working the brakes and accelerator, the owners working the clutch.

Who's steering?

..the fans??

 

[Gordoff]

View attachment 795432

Ron Hextall was insane.

Who's steering?

..the fans??

Big business and their marketing $$$. The fans are just along for the ride after filling the tank up with fuel.

 

[bobbyorr04]

Big business and their marketing $$$. The fans are just along for the ride after filling the tank up with fuel.

As long as most fans are happy with the product on the ice, and keep supporting the league, the NHL is in the drivers seat, and the fans are along for the ride

If the product becomes undesirable or unaffordable, (or both) and attendance starts dwindling throughout the league, and the NHL starts losing ratings and TV sponsors, then the rig will be operated by the fans

Without fans, the league cannot function, and would eventually cease to exist

That is something that Bettman and the owners should never lose sight of

 

[GordonHowe]

My old man used to tell me stories about the Howe games. Someone would check him in the corner, the play would break out towards the other end and he would see Howe trailing the play a bit. Then he'd look back and see the checking guy on hands and knees with blood gushing out his nose or somewhere else.
He said it happened most DET BOS games he went to. I think there were cheap shots back then but the speed of the game was so much slower, the boarding type of hits didn't look that bad.
These guys are so fast now, and the equipment is hard as stone. Old days equip was basically see through leather.

I don't know.

Master of Ceremonies,



Servant of none,

pretty close

Neither were big. Left wings shooting left. Great skaters, set-up men, scoring machines.

Exceptionally competitive, talented, relentless. Trash talkers nonparallel. Reliably chippy, dirty, mean. Neither shied from a fight.

A certain kind of leadership.

 

[GordonHowe]

I think you can like all eras. Each contribute their own goodness IMO. I liked Rick Middleton. I liked that era. I also loved Cam Neely...then Joe Thornton....then Patrice and Lucic....love McAvoy and Pastrnak now. I loved a league with a lot of fights. I really enjoy this league as well. Things change. Players these days train year round, as kids played year round...it's just different. Just because "those were the days" doesn't mean these days can't be pretty good too.

Fair enough.

 

[BruinsFan37]

I don't think you're wrong, but by the same measure, even if you go back to the 1980s (and earlier) and look at one to two minute game highlight videos you're gonna see goals, goals, goals for the most part. Really good hits might get a replay during the game, but they've rarely made the highlight reels. There simply isn't the time when you're talking about a couple mins at most media recap.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

I've been entertained every game. I love the scrums but I don't think it's a shitty game if it's more finesse.

 

[BB79]

View attachment 795432

what an awful dive. I hope he didn't draw a penalty there. I'd be embarrassed if I were that ref

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Aaah the good ol' days! I used McKenzie as an example of a tough little guy, like Marchand who could flatten someone 6 inches taller. In Johhny's case he'd beat them with his fists.
Bobby Clarke? Yes, dirtiest SOB in the league.players using the boards as a weapon and launching themselves 8 strides in to try to put another thru the boards is worse IMO than 2 guys occasionally squaring off. The other thing is the league letting things like the Trouba high stick to Trent Frederic's head isn't the answer either.
I'm so glad things are so civilized and we're so enlightened now.
BTW, what did John McKenzie ever do that was so egregious?
I don't remember him in particular doing anything to end a career or put someone out of a career.

You stated that you didn't recall Pie doing anything sneaky (dirty), behind the play, like they do today. Just wanted to say I recall him doing just that quite often. He made good use of his stick away from the play. He put up 115 minutes in penalties for the Whalers in the WHA when he was 41 years old. Got to see him live a lot that season.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Master of Ceremonies,



Servant of none,



View attachment 795569 pretty close View attachment 795571

Neither were big. Left wings shooting left. Great skaters, set-up men, scoring machines.

Exceptionally competitive, talented, relentless. Trash talkers nonparallel. Reliably chippy, dirty, mean. Neither shied from a fight.

A certain kind of leadership.

Mr. Howe, 2nd best ever. Only Orr was better.

Marchand and Lindsay a good comparable, but Lindsay was probably a lot dirtier than Brad.

 

[sarge88]

The only thing I’ll say about the younger generations hockey fans is that I don’t think they are much different than the rest of us.

I‘ve been to enough games over the last 20 years to know that if someone is interested enough in hockey to attend a game, they don’t use the bathroom during a fight.

The 10 year old hockey fan today is no different than the 20, 30, 40 or 70 year old fan in that regard.

Now, for the non-fan in their 20’s, I truly don’t think that any level of sanitizing the toughness, violence or anger out of the game will attract more fans.

If you’re not a hockey fan by age 18, it‘s highly unlikely that you’ll be one by 28. And TBH, more than any other sport….hockey is a culture. If your dad or grandfather was a fan, you’ve got a significantly higher chance of being one than someone who’s father or GF isn’t.

However, how many video clips do we need to see of people attending their first NHL game and being excited by or curious about the physical aspects of the game?

I see 2-3 videos a month, at least, of people attending their first NHL game and embracing the aggressive aspects of the game on social media.

If the league was truly interested in growing the game, they’d embrace the toughness, rather than look to decrease it.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

The only thing I’ll say about the younger generations hockey fans is that I don’t think they are much different than the rest of us.

I‘ve been to enough games over the last 20 years to know that if someone is interested enough in hockey to attend a game, they don’t use the bathroom during a fight.

The 10 year old hockey fan today is no different than the 20, 30, 40 or 70 year old fan in that regard.

Now, for the non-fan in their 20’s, I truly don’t think that any level of sanitizing the toughness, violence or anger out of the game will attract more fans.

If you’re not a hockey fan by age 18, it‘s highly unlikely that you’ll be one by 28. And TBH, more than any other sport….hockey is a culture. If your dad or grandfather was a fan, you’ve got a significantly higher chance of being one than someone who’s father or GF isn’t.

However, how many video clips do we need to see of people attending their first NHL game and being excited by or curious about the physical aspects of the game?

I see 2-3 videos a month, at least, of people attending their first NHL game and embracing the aggressive aspects of the game on social media.

If the league was truly interested in growing the game, they’d embrace the toughness, rather than look to decrease it.

I’m in a rink six days a week either with U12 or U8. Some of the kids, especially the 12 year olds, talk about the NHL and things they saw. The older ones huddle around a phone watch a clip or a highlight. I’ve never seen them do that for a fight or a check or any of that. It’s always a McDavid play, or a Bedard shot, and especially a Michigan.

That’s an anecdotal take just like yours. But the kids I am around who are NHL fans love the skill and speed, and gravitate towards the younger new stars. Bedard jerseys are everywhere - don’t see any Troubas or Lombergs.

 

[sarge88]

I’m in a rink six days a week either with U12 or U8. Some of the kids, especially the 12 year olds, talk about the NHL and things they saw. The older ones huddle around a phone watch a clip or a highlight. I’ve never seen them do that for a fight or a check or any of that. It’s always a McDavid play, or a Bedard shot, and especially a Michigan.

That’s an anecdotal take just like yours. But the kids I am around who are NHL fans love the skill and speed, and gravitate towards the younger new stars. Bedard jerseys are everywhere - don’t see any Troubas or Lombergs.

There’s a difference between liking the skill and speed aspect of the game and disliking the toughness aspect.

Do those kids turn to their phones to watch a Bedard highlight when they’re at an NHL game and a fight breaks out….or do they do what every other 10,12 or 14 year old that I see at an NHL game does, and lose their mind cheering, laughing and enjoying it?

I mean it’s not like I only cheered when Miller or Byers were pounding Habs in the 80’s.

I have just as fond memories of Neely or Bourque skill plays as I do the fights and hitting.

 

[mjhfb]

I’m in a rink six days a week either with U12 or U8. Some of the kids, especially the 12 year olds, talk about the NHL and things they saw. The older ones huddle around a phone watch a clip or a highlight. I’ve never seen them do that for a fight or a check or any of that. It’s always a McDavid play, or a Bedard shot, and especially a Michigan.

That’s an anecdotal take just like yours. But the kids I am around who are NHL fans love the skill and speed, and gravitate towards the younger new stars. Bedard jerseys are everywhere - don’t see any Troubas or Lombergs.

Another observation is that less youth are watching the full games with all their shift by shift nuances. Many are resorting to the shortcuts of post game highlights.

 

[jgatie]

The fights are all censored for children, so they can't huddle around and watch them.

 

[GordonHowe]

Another observation is that less youth are watching the full games with all their shift by shift nuances. Many are resorting to the shortcuts of post game highlights.

And therefore ignorant of what "really" happened in a particular game, ignorant of nuance, and hence, ignorant of what makes the game great.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

And therefore ignorant of what "really" happened in a particular game, ignorant of nuance, and hence, ignorant of what makes the game great.

Older people calling the youth ignorant - a tradition unlike any other.

 

[GordonHowe]

The only thing I’ll say about the younger generations hockey fans is that I don’t think they are much different than the rest of us.

I‘ve been to enough games over the last 20 years to know that if someone is interested enough in hockey to attend a game, they don’t use the bathroom during a fight.

The 10 year old hockey fan today is no different than the 20, 30, 40 or 70 year old fan in that regard.

Now, for the non-fan in their 20’s, I truly don’t think that any level of sanitizing the toughness, violence or anger out of the game will attract more fans.

If you’re not a hockey fan by age 18, it‘s highly unlikely that you’ll be one by 28. And TBH, more than any other sport….hockey is a culture. If your dad or grandfather was a fan, you’ve got a significantly higher chance of being one than someone who’s father or GF isn’t.

However, how many video clips do we need to see of people attending their first NHL game and being excited by or curious about the physical aspects of the game?

I see 2-3 videos a month, at least, of people attending their first NHL game and embracing the aggressive aspects of the game on social media.

If the league was truly interested in growing the game, they’d embrace the toughness, rather than look to decrease it.

Great post. Thank you.

 

[Spjutmuren]

Late to the discussion, but here goes anyways

I am not sure if I totally agree on the premise that the NHL is solely trying to nurse the skill game. It is obvious to me that the reffing changes during the Playoffs, which indicate that the league (or the refs) really do value the physical aspect of the sport. One part of me find this very reasonable, imagine the amount of injuries if all season was played like the PO, and one part of me gets furious about not knowing what to expect, we are often served an unknown mix of ticky-tack calls while allowing some egregious violence.

The only logical explanation I see is that they are playing two horses, trying to attract families with skill and the old-school hardcore fan with physical hockey. Then, it makes a lot of sense to remove the physicality from the reels, and only having it available for the people watching the game. Heck, the full scope of the gane is actually the main reason that I do watch them instead of the highlights.

I also think there are some discussions to be had about what the game of hockey should be going forward. Having kids in the game really makes you think about the speed and risks associated by being hit hard when you’re looking the wrong way. This responsibility is not on NHL alone, but I like that they are (seemingly) trying to lead the way by focusing on the skill parts of hockey and player safety in the marketing directed towards kids and youth.

So, confusingly enough - I am actually happy with the mixed signals. They just need to make it clear what is allowed and whats not in RS and PO, and consistent reffing would be a good start

 

[Sheppy]

I feel like when I was growing up, and the early stages of youtube and downloading clips, 95% of those clips were from fights. I feel that Pj Stock vs Stephen Peat fight was on every hockey fans computer at some stage.

 

[smithformeragent]

I feel like Marty McFly in Back to the Future 2.

“Cubs win World Series…..against Miami.”

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

I feel like Marty McFly in Back to the Future 2.

“Cubs win World Series…..against Miami.”
View attachment 795933

Basically who gives a shit