Are we not as attractive as we/media thinks?

[billybudd]

He was not a regular with those two. Which was my point. It was closer to Malkin getting shifts with Sid to spark some offense than Neal/Malkin being locks together up until this postseason. The last time the Caps had a decent #2C (with Semin on the team) was Federov in 08-09, and Semin was ppg in those playoffs rotating with him and Backstrom.

Semin is no lazier than Neal. And he can actually make things happen on his own with superior puck skills and skating.

Just saying I would have taken the risk on a one year deal. And re-evaluated at season's end. We would have had our 1st rounder more than likely since there would have been no room for Iggy.

I checked, RRP is right in this case. Semin essentially split his time 50/50 between first line and second while in Washington. So if he had 1002 minutes with Laich as his center in year X, he had 1000 minutes with Backstrom in the same year.

I don't remember it that way (and I lived in Washington and caught most caps games in Semin's rookie year), but the data's going to be more accurate than my memory when it comes to something like that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Want to say it was Fehr. Though the point still stands. Fehr was nearly out of the sport when McPhee gave him a second chance a year or so ago.

Yeah, I think you're right. Remembered it as Laich, for some reason. I knew that it was certainly someone that didn't have much room to talk, in retrospect. Oh... and add Troy Brouwer to the list, too. Just found his thoughts on Semin (on the way out the door) while searching on the subject.

Yeah... he's really living up to expectations, too.

 

[billybudd]

Even though he didn't rip Semin, it's going to be hilarious in Washington whenever they lose a game and both Brooksies rip their teammates as lazy sacks of crap to reporters, despite having, in all probability, been the worst two guys on the ice.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Even though he didn't rip Semin, it's going to be hilarious in Washington whenever they lose a game and both Brooksies rip their teammates as lazy sacks of crap to reporters, despite having, in all probability, been the worst two guys on the ice.

Absolutely.

My point about him being a loudmouth still holds. Must be something about the name.

Watching/listening to he and our former Brooks wax idiotic about their teammates lack of accountability, etc. right after they got done taking panic dumps all over the ice is going to be high comedy, next season.

 

[mpp9]

I checked, RRP is right in this case. Semin essentially split his time 50/50 between first line and second while in Washington. So if he had 1002 minutes with Laich as his center in year X, he had 1000 minutes with Backstrom in the same year.

I don't remember it that way (and I lived in Washington and caught most caps games in Semin's rookie year), but the data's going to be more accurate than my memory when it comes to something like that.

It was closer than I thought. Just looked it up myself. But in his last 3 years with the Caps, his most common linemates were MoJo and Laich by 100+ minutes each season.

In 08-09 he split time pretty evenly with Laich, Backstrom and Federov. But spent more time with Ovi than I thought. The year prior to that he was with Flash and a rotating cast.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Absolutely.

My point about him being a loudmouth still holds. Must be something about the name.

Watching/listening to he and our former Brooks wax idiotic about their teammates lack of accountability, etc. right after they got done taking panic dumps all over the ice is going to be high comedy, next season.

Brooks Laich is the Caps forward version of Brooks Orpik.

Calls out teammates but doesn't call himself out for his **** play.

But hey, he helped out a Caps fan who blew a tire on the freeway so he's captain material...

 

[The Tang]

Brooks Laich is the Caps forward version of Brooks Orpik.

Calls out teammates but doesn't call himself out for his **** play.

But hey, he helped out a Caps fan who blew a tire on the freeway so he's captain material...

So the lesson is don't have guys named Brooks on the team?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He was not a regular with those two. Which was my point. It was closer to Malkin getting shifts with Sid to spark some offense than Neal/Malkin being locks together up until this postseason. The last time the Caps had a decent #2C (with Semin on the team) was Federov in 08-09, and Semin was ppg in those playoffs rotating with him and Backstrom.

He saw plenty of time with Ovy and Backstrom, even if they weren't his most frequent linemates - I never said they were joined at the hip. And that's just ES. He was also a 1st unit PP staple.

Semin is no lazier than Neal. And he can actually make things happen on his own with superior puck skills and skating.

Clearly not in the playoffs.

Just saying I would have taken the risk on a one year deal. And re-evaluated at season's end. We would have had our 1st rounder more than likely since there would have been no room for Iggy. Use it to draft another winger or an offseason deal if you don't re-sign Semin.

That's one take. Another is that you don't want to use up all your cap space on a perennial playoff dog who badmouthed your captain and has been called out more than any player in the league by teammates and management for lackluster effort.

But Semin's skill and skating buys him a lot of rope from some.

 

[mpp9]

Half the league has badmouthed Crosby at one point or another. Detroit players complained when he didnt' go shake their hands immediately after the Cup win. Torts called him a whiner and a dirty player. Berube the same.

Talbot called Ovy a ******. Rivals do that type of stuff all the time. And if I remember correctly, Semin was commenting on Sid's style of play more than anything.

Semin is badmouthed b/c he has immense talent and isn't a superstar. I'd argue he would have been in the perfect environment here. He would not need to carry a line. Nor would he have to deal with a ton of criticism.

Gaborik was pretty meh in his playoff runs post-lockout. Then walked into a situation where he didn't have to be the guy on his line anymore. He then went on to put up 14 goals this past playoffs.

Neal got alot of rope as well b/c of his shot. Despite him not having superior playoff numbers to Semin.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

This board really wants to have its cake and eat it too. We want hard-working character guys who will bolster our playoff chances when there's need to justify moving Neal for Hornqvist, but then we lament not trading for the epitome of fancypants skill guy who ***** the bed in the post-season.

We wouldn't have traded anything for Semin. He cost zero assets.

We've also been over the playoff stats before. Semin has 34 points in 51 games yet you cherry-pick the last 30 games every time, completely neglecting the 22 points in the 21 playoff games. The Caps have bombed as a team, yet you like to pin it all on Semin.

Over Semin? Sure do.

The guy gets ripped by more former teammates than anyone I've seen for mailing it in when it counts.

By scrub players pining for more minutes and top PP minutes. And sticking to your guns of not wanting Semin over proven failures we've already tried just makes you look bitter.

He also talked **** about Crosby.

Are you talking about when he said he thought Kane was better than Crosby? I'm sure Sid is torn up about it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Half the league has badmouthed Crosby at one point or another. Detroit players complained when he didnt' go shake their hands immediately after the Cup win. Torts called him a whiner and a dirty player. Berube the same.

Talbot called Ovy a ******. Rivals do that type of stuff all the time. And if I remember correctly, Semin was commenting on Sid's style of play more than anything.

I don't recall any of these guys going out of their way to acquire the offending party. Semin said there was nothing special about Crosby and compared him to a piece of dead wood.

Semin is badmouthed b/c he has immense talent and isn't a superstar. I'd argue he would have been in the perfect environment here. He would not need to carry a line. Nor would he have to deal with a ton of criticism.

No. He's badmouthed because he's woefully inconsistent and his numbers plummet in the post-season. If he had the same talent but his playoffs didn't fall off a cliff, he wouldn't get that sort of criticism from every direction.

Gaborik was pretty meh in his playoff runs post-lockout. Then walked into a situation where he didn't have to be the guy on his line anymore. He then went on to put up 14 goals this past playoffs.

Neal got alot of rope as well b/c of his shot. Despite him not having superior playoff numbers to Semin.

Gaborik was more productive than Semin, and kept his mouth shut. Neal has been more productive than Semin ever since the last time Semin had a good playoffs...'08-'09. And for 2 mil less per.

We wouldn't have traded anything for Semin. He cost zero assets.

We've also been over the playoff stats before. Semin has 34 points in 51 games yet you cherry-pick the last 30 games every time, completely neglecting the 22 points in the 21 playoff games. The Caps have bombed as a team, yet you like to pin it all on Semin.

The last time Semin was productive in the playoffs, MAF was considered a clutch goalie. Do you consider MAF a clutch goalie?

What Semin was doing 5 years ago is moot, and using career numbers to justify his playoff contributions over the past half-decade is misrepresentative, to say the least. Unless you figure we should go sign up Marty Havlat as quick as we can.

By scrub players pining for more minutes and top PP minutes. And sticking to your guns of not wanting Semin over proven failures we've already tried just makes you look bitter.

I wasn't aware there was an acceptable skill level for criticism.

You know what's funny though? That scrub Laich outscored Semin in the playoffs over the 3 year playoff period between '10 and '12. But you have to cut him some slack...he had to carry a line with Semin on it half the time.

 

[mpp9]

I don't recall any of these guys going out of their way to acquire the offending party. Semin said there was nothing special about Crosby and compared him to a piece of dead wood.

Crosby doesn't have a flashy game. And he's actually quite boring with his interviews and goal celebrations. Semin didn't say it in the nicest way, but he's also entitled to say who he views as the more entertaining player. Sid's an adult. If we don't acquire a player b/c of what he's said in the past, that's pretty childish.

No. He's badmouthed because he's woefully inconsistent and his numbers plummet in the post-season. If he had the same talent but his playoffs didn't fall off a cliff, he wouldn't get that sort of criticism from every direction.

Which is why he would have come on a one year deal as a UFA. It's a gamble. Iggy was of no help against Boston. As was the rest of our deadline acquisitions. While costing us significant assets.

You don't think we would have gotten past the Isles and Ottawa with Semin instead of Iggy?

Gaborik was more productive than Semin, and kept his mouth shut. Neal has been more productive than Semin ever since the last time Semin had a good playoffs...'08-'09. And for 2 mil less per.

Gaborik was marginally more productive. He was badmouthed as well in the past.

The last time Semin was productive in the playoffs, MAF was considered a clutch goalie. Do you consider MAF a clutch goalie?

And a team in need of an upgrade in goaltending would likely take a gamble on Fleury on a one year deal.

You know what's funny though? That scrub Laich outscored Semin in the playoffs over the 3 year playoff period between '10 and '12. But you have to cut him some slack...he had to carry a line with Semin on it half the time.

Can say the same thing with Neal and Sutter. Laich isn't a #2C on a playoff team. Nor is Sutter. But that didnt' stop him from outplaying Neal while playing on the same line. Go ask Caps fans whom they'd rather have on their team at this point, Laich or Semin.

 

[DearDiary]

Semin gets far too much hate. Imo he was the only Caps player who showed that he cared in every series. He was ppg, while excellent defensively.

I recall Caps fans bashing him in the loss against Montreal. Semin was doing everything but scoring, hit 2 posts I believe in the final game. But of course, they look for a scape coat instead of blaming Ovechkin. Semin is much much better than his numbers show, its a shame that people always assume the worst of him

 

[Sam Spade]

Semin gets far too much hate. Imo he was the only Caps player who showed that he cared in every series. He was ppg, while excellent defensively.

I recall Caps fans bashing him in the loss against Montreal. Semin was doing everything but scoring, hit 2 posts I believe in the final game. But of course, they look for a scape coat instead of blaming Ovechkin. Semin is much much better than his numbers show, its a shame that people always assume the worst of him

What does this mean? He is EXACTLY what his numbers show, an extremely overpaid player who is guaranteed to miss 20 games a season, gets hot for ten games, disappears for twenty five, and never shows up when it matters. I get so tired of hearing how under appreciated he is.

Pens (and the Caps) were correct to not sign/persue him. For the production you get that contract Rutherford gave him (and for FIVE YEARS ) is one of the worst in the league.

 

[Tender Rip]

Oh... The Semin thing again...

Looking forward to the season starting...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Crosby doesn't have a flashy game. And he's actually quite boring with his interviews and goal celebrations. Semin didn't say it in the nicest way, but he's also entitled to say who he views as the more entertaining player. Sid's an adult. If we don't acquire a player b/c of what he's said in the past, that's pretty childish.

Just one of many red flags to consider.

Which is why he would have come on a one year deal as a UFA. It's a gamble. Iggy was of no help against Boston. As was the rest of our deadline acquisitions. While costing us significant assets.

You don't think we would have gotten past the Isles and Ottawa with Semin instead of Iggy?

Some gambles are smarter than others.

In the 2 one-goal wins we had against the Isles, Iginla had a goal in each.

Gaborik was marginally more productive. He was badmouthed as well in the past.

Gaborik was more productive and not once criticized by a single teammate or GM for a lack of effort when it counted. You keep grasping for parallels here, but there aren't any. No star forward has been more roundly criticized or seen a more dramatic drop in playoff performance than Semin.

And a team in need of an upgrade in goaltending would likely take a gamble on Fleury on a one year deal.

Any GM looking to bolster his team's playoff chances who would use all his available cap space on Fleury wouldn't be a GM for long.

Can say the same thing with Neal and Sutter. Laich isn't a #2C on a playoff team. Nor is Sutter. But that didnt' stop him from outplaying Neal while playing on the same line. Go ask Caps fans whom they'd rather have on their team at this point, Laich or Semin.

No you can't. Sutter outproduced Neal for 1 year, not 3 years. And for the hundredth time, Neal makes 2 mil less than Semin.

The Caps fans didn't make the playoffs last year. If we were looking to make the playoffs, I'd want Semin over Laich. But we're looking to win in the playoffs...Semin is the last star forward anyone should commit a huge chunk of cap space to if that is their end goal.

 

[mpp9]

We had around 10 mil in cap space going into the 12-13 season. Signing Semin and having 3 mil of real cap space left over to take into the deadline is plenty. Especially when that number is larger at the deadline with pro-rated contracts coming back. So no, signing Semin did not use all of our cap space. Nor would it have cost any assets.

I'd wager Neal's numbers would be about the same as 2011 and 2014 moving forward if he's not playing with Malkin or Sid reguarly. And again, Semin making 2 mil more than Neal does not matter. He's not signed longterm in this scenario so it doesn't affect our ability to retain other players. And as I showed above, it doesn't prevent us from acquiring more players at the deadline.

 

[Gurglesons]

We would've had Semin and Neal which means Crosby would have a RW and Dupuis would've been on the third line.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We would've had Semin and Neal which means Crosby would have a RW and Dupuis would've been on the third line.

Iginla didn't dislodge Dupuis from Sid's wing. Semin sure wouldn't have.

We had around 10 mil in cap space going into the 12-13 season. Signing Semin and having 3 mil of real cap space left over to take into the deadline is plenty. Especially when that number is larger at the deadline with pro-rated contracts coming back. So no, signing Semin did not use all of our cap space. Nor would it have cost any assets.

It means that he would have been our go-to scoring wing acquisition, precluding another big-money addition. As I said, Iginla's goals were the difference in our 2 one-goal wins against the Isles.

I'd wager Neal's numbers would be about the same as 2011 and 2014 moving forward if he's not playing with Malkin or Sid reguarly And again, Semin making 2 mil more than Neal does not matter. He's not signed longterm in this scenario so it doesn't affect our ability to retain other players. And as I showed above, it doesn't prevent us from acquiring more players at the deadline.

You'd wager. But Semin's already shown how he performs in that scenario at an inflated price.

Your entire argument for Semin revolves around your hope that the criticisms he's received at every level of the hockey establishment are unfounded, contrary to the supporting evidence of a large sample size of recent playoff numbers, which you hope (again) would do a complete 180 in a different environment. So much so that you would prefer him over a character scoring winger with a far superior playoff track record whose contributions were the difference in 2 games of a tight 6 game series.

Well you can keep preferring that, hoping against hope that things would be so much different here that he'd have been a better acquisition than Iginla. I lean towards the much more likely scenario of the guy continuing to be a bum.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Iginla didn't dislodge Dupuis from Sid's wing. Semin sure wouldn't have.

I don't really care much about what happened with Semin, but I think a full season with the team would have made a difference in this regard. It might have ended up the same, but there would have been more time to try other things.

Overall, I really don't care either way about Semin. I would have been fine trying him for a year, but I also understand why we might not have.

 

[Fordy]

I'd take Semin

 

[Honour Over Glory]

ITT I've learned not many actually saw Alex Semin consistently enough to know that he is in fact a better player than James Neal.

 

[Ogrezilla]

ITT I've learned not many actually saw Alex Semin consistently enough to know that he is in fact a better player than James Neal.

this is in no way factual. They both have the ability to play a pretty complete game. Semin does play that way more often, but Neal is better when he does.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

What Semin was doing 5 years ago is moot, and using career numbers to justify his playoff contributions over the past half-decade is misrepresentative, to say the least.

Not at all. It makes for a much more balanced way of viewing a player. It’s certainly more fair than hyperbole like this:

There's also the small matter of Semin being the biggest perennial playoff underachiever of any star forward.

Or stubbornly insisting you would choose already tried and failed attempts (Iginla) over a try-out contract for Semin.

I’m not even going to touch on you throwing in ole Pascal as a comparison just to torch some blood around here.

You know what's funny though? That scrub Laich outscored Semin in the playoffs over the 3 year playoff period between '10 and '12. But you have to cut him some slack...he had to carry a line with Semin on it half the time.

Laich? Do you mean Matt Bradley and Eric Fehr?

I wasn't aware there was an acceptable skill level for criticism.

You weren’t? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? Given the context – grinders pointing fingers after disappointing playoff losses – I’ll take those comments with a grain of salt. When skilled players hit slumps, it’s because they’re not trying and have bad attitudes.

ITT I've learned not many actually saw Alex Semin consistently enough to know that he is in fact a better player than James Neal.

this is in no way factual. They both have the ability to play a pretty complete game. Semin does play that way more often, but Neal is better when he does.

HoG saying Semin is a better player than Neal is not factual but you saying Neal's best is better than Semin's best is? Odd thing to say, especially considering you admitted in the same post that Semin is more consistent, and Semin having a higher GPG and PPG throughout his career.

 

[Ogrezilla]

HoG saying Semin is a better player than Neal is not factual but you saying Neal's best is better than Semin's best is? Odd thing to say, especially considering you admitted in the same post that Semin is more consistent, and Semin having a higher GPG and PPG throughout his career.

you know what, it was early. you are not wrong.