Are we going to be the new Buffalo Sabres? 5 years straight without playoffs.

[Big Muddy]

Despite what was said, I don't even think the tear down part of the rebuild is finished yet. We are going to sell some assets again at the TDL and hopefully gain something half-assed in return.

And, we haven't really turned any corner from a results/standings perspective either. I mean, we'll end up being a lot closer to the 32nd seed versus being even near a playoff spot. We'll be picking a very high overall pick again this year. So, after 5 years or so, we are still in Phase 1 of a rebuild.

And the tear down phase is the easy part.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Muckler was terrible but Murray was worlds ahead of Dorion as a GM imo. He traded Rundblad for Turris, Elliott for Anderson and Foligno for Methot. That’s what good GMs do, they make “hockey deals” to upgrade positions or fill holes.

I have a hard time commending Dorion for getting Brassard when he gave up Zibanejad for him. Put me in seat and I can get a very good player too if I decide I’m trading Josh Norris.

Rundblad was a good trade on a draft miss, props there, and Anderson for Elliot was great too.

Foligno for Methot was an ok deal. Methot was a good partner for EK and a solid D, but Foligno was a really good player too, and the Jacket’s captain. We sure could have used his presence on the team as well.

And no, you wouldn’t. It’s foolish to assume these things let alone truly believe them.

Murray was unwilling to make big trades to push us over the top, a classic Sens failure going back many years. He was a legend and has a lot of respect around the league though (I generally liked Murray). I personally didn’t like how he often negotiated through the press and am much happier with how PD and company conduct business.

 

[PlayOn]

Rundblad was a good trade on a draft miss, props there, and Anderson for Elliot was great too.

Foligno for Methot was an ok deal. Methot was a good partner for EK and a solid D, but Foligno was a really good player too, and the Jacket’s captain. We sure could have used his presence on the team as well.

And no, you wouldn’t. It’s foolish to assume these things let alone truly believe them.

Murray was unwilling to make big trades to push us over the top, a classic Sens failure going back many years. He was a legend and has a lot of respect around the league though (I generally liked Murray). I personally didn’t like how he often negotiated through the press and am much happier with how PD and company conduct business.

We needed Methot more than we needed Foligno, which is the point. It’s ok to give up equal quality players for a position of need if it makes you a better team.

Anyone can trade Josh Norris for a good player because it’s an easy market when you have a very good young player with upside on an affordable contract. I don’t know what’s foolish about it, it’s not a trade that requires a ton of skill. I’m really not sure how that deal of all deals can be used to defend Dorion, it’s quite frankly the worst deal he’s made as far as I’m concerned. I’d give him credit for acquiring Brassard without giving up Zib.

Murray took over a team who’s best days were behind them. Heatley demanded a trade, Spezza eventually asked out too, Alfredsson aged and left. The Sens probably should have done a full blown rebuild but he kept us afloat, at the very least.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We needed Methot more than we needed Foligno, which is the point. It’s ok to give up equal quality players for a position of need if it makes you a better team.

Anyone can trade Josh Norris for a good player because it’s an easy market when you have a very good young player with upside on an affordable contract. I don’t know what’s foolish about it, it’s not a trade that requires a ton of skill. I’m really not sure how that deal of all deals can be used to defend Dorion, it’s quite frankly the worst deal he’s made as far as I’m concerned. I’d give him credit for acquiring Brassard without giving up Zib.

I guess I put zero stock in fans in here claiming the ability to make trades in the NHL. It’s fine if you believe that, I have shared my opinion on that and I think we can move on.

I would have preferred to have picked up Methot for less than Foligno, much like you’re talking about getting Brassard for less than Zib.

Brass had a rep for playoffs, while zib had a rep for lack lustre play. We wanted to win now, and that means sacrifices. Lots of people liked the trade at the time because of how much Zub left people wanting. Good for him for stepping up after the move, and of course hindsight has increased the ire over time.

It is what it is, these types of moves to win are only celebrated when you get that championship, so I’m not going to defend it. My point in my post was that PD was willing make bold moves to win, neither Murray, nor Muckler, ever were.

I like that mentality, even though it’s not always going to pan out in our favour.

 

[PlayOn]

I guess I put zero stock in fans in here claiming the ability to make trades in the NHL. It’s fine if you believe that, I have shared my opinion on that and I think we can move on.

I would have preferred to have picked up Methot for less than Foligno, much like you’re talking about getting Brassard for less than Zib.

Brass had a rep for playoffs, while zib had a rep for lack lustre play. We wanted to win now, and that means sacrifices. Lots of people liked the trade at the time because of how much Zub left people wanting. Good for him for stepping up after the move, and of course hindsight has increased the ire over time.

It is what it is, these types of moves to win are only celebrated when you get that championship, so I’m not going to defend it. My point in my post was that PD was willing make bold moves to win, neither Murray, nor Muckler, ever were.

I like that mentality, even though it’s not always going to pan out in our favour.

To be clear, I don’t think I can be a proper NHL GM. I just think there are 32 GMs in the league that value young centres with upside on a good contract, which is more the point I’m trying to make. That’s a deal where you should be in the drivers seat and people should be coming to you.

I didn’t understand the Zibanejad deal the day it happened so I’m not speaking with the benefit of hindsight. It never should have happened. But my point isn’t to rehash old moves so much as to say being ready and willing to make a big move is great, but it’s less great when you are losing the deals - it demonstrates eagerness and impulsivity more so than possessing shrewd decision-making and good timing. It’s not something to applaud as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Ice-Tray]

To be clear, I don’t think I can be a proper NHL GM. I just think there are 32 GMs in the league that value young centres with upside on a good contract, which is more the point I’m trying to make. That’s a deal where you should be in the drivers seat and people should be coming to you.

I didn’t understand the Zibanejad deal the day it happened so I’m not speaking with the benefit of hindsight. It never should have happened. But my point isn’t to rehash old moves so much as to say being ready and willing to make a big move is great, but it’s less great when you are losing the deals - it demonstrates eagerness and impulsivity more so than possessing shrewd decision-making and good timing. It’s not something to applaud as far as I’m concerned.

I do understand your points here, I just disagree with them. Thinking all other GMs, including oneself, is self serving angry fan behaviour, and is classic (not saying it’s undeserved). It’s not meant to be challenged, it’s meant to convey displeasure and I get that. It’s not a debateable subject and I’m happy to move in for that reason.

Lots of people didn’t like the trade at the time, and lots did. This particular deal is supposed benefit in the short term while the loss hits in the long term. It’s a sacrifice, and I think the one on one comparison was always going to end up over in Zibs direction even just based on age, though he’s really stepped up beyond that.

We came close, and I’m happy for that. No one would care about the trade had we won, but though we came close we still fell short. What ends up happening is that in the off season most fans look at the season as yet another failure, instead of the spectacular success that it was, and pine for a redo on assets we gave up to help get there. Again it’s pretty normal sports fan behaviour.

I like that Pierre went for it. Murray would have brought in a few depth guys and hoped for the best, and Muckler would have traded for a washed up vet, or someone who added nothing to the team, and given up good assets to do it.

In the end it’s a differing of opinions. Maybe the next GM will be a step further along the path I like, but I have exactly zero interest in pining for what we have had in the past. They never got it done either, didn’t even try, and rode what Johnson brought in for a very long time.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Brass had a rep for playoffs, while zib had a rep for lack lustre play. We wanted to win now, and that means sacrifices. Lots of people liked the trade at the time because of how much Zub left people wanting. Good for him for stepping up after the move, and of course hindsight has increased the ire over time.

A lot of people knew that the deal would ultimately save the owner money, the same motivation as a lot of other trades. And the deal proved to be bad in the long term, proving that the alternative reality that a few people had in their minds was wrong.

 

[thinkwild]

My worry isn’t as much becoming the new Buffalo, it’s becoming the new Wang-Milbury Isles. Publicly pouting ownership spending to the floor until taxpayers build him a new arena while the GM is forced to dump all players requiring contracts taking them above the minimum requirement.

The message im getting from Melnyk is F.You’s. He can change that, but he doesn’t.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I'd settle from some modicum of competence and a 65M budget.