Are the Wings players too passive?

[Hammettf2b]

It just seems to me that this team is all system at all times and don't play up to their ability. Sheahan for instance, he shows flashes of brilliance with great hands, but more often than not its the same thing from him (and many other players) in deferring to either other players or to the system because that's what he is told to do or just wants to get others involved.

Other examples are Jurco and Smith. Jurco has some of the best hands, but never uses them. Smith shows signs of greatness in the offensive zone when he gets aggressive. Especially when he uses that stop on a dime and spins the other way move along with the give and go, they create good scoring chances.

The only person on this team that I see is consistently aggressive is Larkin.

Is Blashill handcuffing these guys with the system? (same can be said for when Babs was here) I feel that if the players have a little more freedom offensively, we would be in better shape. Along with being more selfish. Too many times have I seen Nyquist give up the shot for the perfect pass, which most of the time fails. Which brings up another point. How often do you see this team score a dirty goal? It rarely happens. Most of this teams goals are from great plays. I think that has to do with our lack of scoring as well. We wait for the prefect play to happen, and it rarely does. Get to the net, shoot the puck, start forcing some things.

In conclusion, I feel the team would benefit from being more selfish/aggressive and less "system" oriented.

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[evolutionbaby]

I agree. There's enough skill on this team to be very dangerous but there just seems to be zero creativity. I personally think Babs hurt the development of some the guys such as Smith, Kindl and Jurco by really tightening the reins on them.Obviously you need to be tactically sound to go all the way, but for what the Wings have and their skill set, I think they'd be much better running and gunning then hoping to win 2-1 all the time. On top of that, the line combinations don't help this problem as well, but we won't touch that in this thread as it's being discussed elsewhere.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I agree. There's enough skill on this team to be very dangerous but there just seems to be zero creativity. I personally think Babs hurt the development of some the guys such as Smith, Kindl and Jurco by really tightening the reins on them.Obviously you need to be tactically sound to go all the way, but for what the Wings have and their skill set, I think they'd be much better running and gunning then hoping to win 2-1 all the time.

I think you're very wrong. We are not built to run and gun at all. #1 reason: our D isn't very mobile, smart, creative or talented.

This team is just a little low on talent. What we're seeing is a glimpse of life without Datsyuk. Someone is out there wearing his number but it's not him. The difference between this Datsyuk and the one we had last year makes a big impact in how dangerous we are offensively.

 

[GMR]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, as I'm not in the locker room, but I have a hard time believing we have any aggressive leaders in the locker room. I'm talking guys who will be vocal and call teammates out behind closed doors.

I just don't see Datsyuk or Zetterberg being those kinds of players. They seem like quiet guys who lead by example. It feels like this team needs a vocal leader who will get in people's faces when the need arises.

 

[HIFE]

OP by "aggressive" you are implying shooting the puck?

If so I see this many times a game, even from our 4th line. Trying to be too cute. Larkin (thankfully) usually has no hesitation shooting the puck, but even he can be guilty of deferring to Z at the wrong moment.

I don't think it's a plan or some type of system that causes the Wings to overpass the puck. In fact it's probably the opposite. Every coach preaches the same thing- get pucks on net!!!

My theory would be Detroit the past years has had this fantastic ability to possess the puck and score highlight-reel goals at will. There's a tradition(?) here of making ultra skilled plays that guys like Tatar and Nyquist have witnessed and want to emulate. Every hockey player that's ever played has to wrestle with this balance of "being selfish" vs. setting up a teammate.

I'm all for more shots. Last night we saw a few nice blasts from the point. I love seeing rolling pucks tee'd up like that smashed toward the net. Shots can go clear in, get deflected in, create a great rebound or a loose puck to gather in for another attempt. If shots are blocked oh well keep firing it right through the opposition.

The Wings need to eliminate that one extra pass too many. Without the highest talent you simply must keep things simple and as mentioned may be pick up a few more dirty goals.

 

[Hammettf2b]

OP by "aggressive" you are implying shooting the puck?

If so I see this many times a game, even from our 4th line. Trying to be too cute. Larkin (thankfully) usually has no hesitation shooting the puck, but even he can be guilty of deferring to Z at the wrong moment.

I don't think it's a plan or some type of system that causes the Wings to overpass the puck. In fact it's probably the opposite. Every coach preaches the same thing- get pucks on net!!!

My theory would be Detroit the past years has had this fantastic ability to possess the puck and score highlight-reel goals at will. There's a tradition(?) here of making ultra skilled plays that guys like Tatar and Nyquist have witnessed and want to emulate. Every hockey player that's ever played has to wrestle with this balance of "being selfish" vs. setting up a teammate.

I'm all for more shots. Last night we saw a few nice blasts from the point. I love seeing rolling pucks tee'd up like that smashed toward the net. Shots can go clear in, get deflected in, create a great rebound or a loose puck to gather in for another attempt. If shots are blocked oh well keep firing it right through the opposition.

The Wings need to eliminate that one extra pass too many. Without the highest talent you simply must keep things simple and as mentioned may be pick up a few more dirty goals.

Not only shooting the puck, but taking chances in the offensive zone, IE the Smith part of the OP.

 

[obey86]

When's the last time a blast from the point just randomly went in? I feel like nearly every shot from a defensemen is a weak shot/easy save for the goalie or it's blocked and never gets through to begin with. I can't remember the last time the Wing just got "lucky" on a shot from the point that bounced off a leg or something.

 

[Probie]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, as I'm not in the locker room, but I have a hard time believing we have any aggressive leaders in the locker room. I'm talking guys who will be vocal and call teammates out behind closed doors.

I just don't see Datsyuk or Zetterberg being those kinds of players. They seem like quiet guys who lead by example. It feels like this team needs a vocal leader who will get in people's faces when the need arises.

A guy life big buff would set them straight in the locker room, he would make everyone more physical too, everyone else would feel safer to start laying the body more. I see good benefits besides his play I. Adding a guy like that. Too bad he wants such long term on his contract.

 

[Frk It]

Even if they are, nothing we can do about it. Can't just change a player's mentality at this stage in the game.

Have a lot of playmakers on the wing, and we are old down the middle. Not a great recipe for success. Nyquist and Tatar are playmakers converted to snipers, but still have that playmaker mentality at heart. I think Z and Datsyuk were a lot more effective playmakers last year, and Nyquist and Tats benefitted big time, and we are seeing the effects of what happens when your playmaking pivots break down. Nyquist and Tatar can finish the feeds, but don't create a lot on their own.

I would like to see us target shoot-first scoring wingers, and playmaking centers in the draft when we are taking forwards. Even Mantha defers an awful lot in Grand Rapids, I was hoping he was going to be a big scorer for us, but I'm not sure he is going to be that type of guy anymore.

 

[One Blurred Eye]

When's the last time a blast from the point just randomly went in? I feel like nearly every shot from a defensemen is a weak shot/easy save for the goalie or it's blocked and never gets through to begin with. I can't remember the last time the Wing just got "lucky" on a shot from the point that bounced off a leg or something.

I've thought this for awhile myself; there's just no one on the backend that the opposition has to worry about launching missiles from the point. They're too slow at getting effective shots off, and when they do they are, as you say, weak or blocked, or they're a mile wide. The forwards routinely seem to get outnumbered on the boards in offensive zone because the other teams' forwards know they can cheat down to help, because even if the puck does come out to one of our dmen, they'll fumble it, or take fifteen minutes to settle the puck and get their shot off.

I've been unwilling to hop on the Big Buff bandwagon because big bodies with lots of miles on them seem to go off the cliff in a hurry--even physique freaks like Chara, and Buff ain't no Chara; and Holland's recent track record concerning trades has been trending ever further into disappointment-land--but man, does this team need desperately that kind of offensive presence back there.

At this point I think I'm willing to take the risk because watching a team with Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Richards and Green on it struggle to score even two goals every night is pathetic, and downright boring. Sure the latter four aren't what they used to be, but we've seen all of them are still smart, creative players and if they had just the little more space and time that an extra presence like Buff could afford them, we'd probably see a lot of our current ills resolved. Pulks and Sheahan might start producing, some of our other dmen might even start producing. We know at this point shuffling forwards around like deck chairs on the Titanic isn't going to fix it. And Kronwall returning won't either--so no, Holland, Kronwall isn't our trade-deadline acquisition. Time for a meaningful shakeup.

 

[JoesuffP]

Absolutely. They play it too safe coming up ice, defensmen jumping up in the play and dumping it and chasing it. We looked good after Tampa took the 3-1 lead, need to play more like that if we want to score goals. Also Dats and Z are officially washed and their the core of this team, obviously we are going to struggle offensively

 

[Frk It]

When's the last time a blast from the point just randomly went in? I feel like nearly every shot from a defensemen is a weak shot/easy save for the goalie or it's blocked and never gets through to begin with. I can't remember the last time the Wing just got "lucky" on a shot from the point that bounced off a leg or something.

Haha. The last person I can remember doing this is Zidlicky.

 

[evolutionbaby]

I think you're very wrong. We are not built to run and gun at all. #1 reason: our D isn't very mobile, smart, creative or talented.

This team is just a little low on talent. What we're seeing is a glimpse of life without Datsyuk. Someone is out there wearing his number but it's not him. The difference between this Datsyuk and the one we had last year makes a big impact in how dangerous we are offensively.

Like I said, I think Babs tightening the reins on guys like Smith and Kindl (who was very very highly touted coming) up amounted to nothing when it comes to this style of game. If they panned out as projected we would have a completely different look.

 

[icKx]

When's the last time a blast from the point just randomly went in? I feel like nearly every shot from a defensemen is a weak shot/easy save for the goalie or it's blocked and never gets through to begin with. I can't remember the last time the Wing just got "lucky" on a shot from the point that bounced off a leg or something.

Yeah, really makes you realize just how good Lids was. I was happy to see Smith jump into the play last night. I feel like other teams don't really respect our D as an offensive threat and it allows much more pressure on the forwards. They don't even hesitate to double team Larkin.

Does Blash have our $6mil defenseman on a short leash? I want more of this Mike Green:

 

[The Zermanator]

If by too passive, you mean lacking fire, piss and vinegar, whatever you want to call it, then I agree. I've thought this for a while. Doesn't really ever seem like anybody on the team is angry when they're on the ice. Just get the feeling sometimes that the team is going through the motions on the ice and letting the other team walk all over them for extended stretches. I'm just like, "PUSH BACK!", " SOMEBODY GET ANGRY!".

That's why Byfuglien's intrigued me for so long. He's no pushover and he inspires that in his teammates.

 

[Hammettf2b]

If by too passive, you mean lacking fire, piss and vinegar, whatever you want to call it, then I agree. I've thought this for a while. Doesn't really ever seem like anybody on the team is angry when they're on the ice. Just get the feeling sometimes that the team is going through the motions on the ice and letting the other team walk all over them for extended stretches. I'm just like, "PUSH BACK!", " SOMEBODY GET ANGRY!".

That's why Byfuglien's intrigued me for so long. He's no pushover and he inspires that in his teammates.

I feel like Datsyuk has those moments every once in a while. You can just tell he has a different demeanor when he has that fire in his eyes. Mickey would call it sometimes, "Pavel really wants the puck". When he is playing with that fire, the line he is on, usually dominates and eventually a goal is scored. Those moments are far few and between though.

 

[GMR]

If by too passive, you mean lacking fire, piss and vinegar, whatever you want to call it, then I agree. I've thought this for a while. Doesn't really ever seem like anybody on the team is angry when they're on the ice. Just get the feeling sometimes that the team is going through the motions on the ice and letting the other team walk all over them for extended stretches. I'm just like, "PUSH BACK!", " SOMEBODY GET ANGRY!".

That's why Byfuglien's intrigued me for so long. He's no pushover and he inspires that in his teammates.

Isn't that a typical response from European hockey players? Outside of Larkin (who's too young to be a leader right now), our best players are European.

As I said, I can't envision Zetterberg or Datsyuk getting angry with teammates and calling guys out. Certainly can't see a Nyquist or Pulkinnen doing that.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, as I'm not in the locker room, but I have a hard time believing we have any aggressive leaders in the locker room. I'm talking guys who will be vocal and call teammates out behind closed doors.

I just don't see Datsyuk or Zetterberg being those kinds of players. They seem like quiet guys who lead by example. It feels like this team needs a vocal leader who will get in people's faces when the need arises.

The players have eluded to Zetterberg and Kronwall doing this, but in particular Kronwall.

First he always takes the blame in his play in interviews and other areas, but he is cutting in terms of honesty. Guys have eluded to that as well in terms of him being the Draper type after Yzerman that steps up and declares things unacceptable when somebody needs to voice displeasure.

 

[Ezekial]

Yeah, really makes you realize just how good Lids was. I was happy to see Smith jump into the play last night. I feel like other teams don't really respect our D as an offensive threat and it allows much more pressure on the forwards. They don't even hesitate to double team Larkin.

Does Blash have our $6mil defenseman on a short leash? I want more of this Mike Green:

That Mike Green doesn't exist anymore, he got a little better defensively and a little worse offensively.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Isn't that a typical response from European hockey players? Outside of Larkin (who's too young to be a leader right now), our best players are European.

As I said, I can't envision Zetterberg or Datsyuk getting angry with teammates and calling guys out. Certainly can't see a Nyquist or Pulkinnen doing that.

Not really that is pretty old in terms of thinking and dripping with Don Cherry. There are plenty of European leaders around the league, this opinion was not only factually always pretty uneducated in my opinion but has certainly been disproved time and again since the influx of more European talent to the league.

I don't think the Wings have the type of room that typically has a lot of this going on and when they do that you hear about it all that much. I mean basically the times we used to hear about it are in stretches that we have played significantly worse than this year or after playoff runs where the guys walk in and say Drapes chewed us out after game 2 against Nashville or Yzerman tore the paint off the wall in Vancouver when we might go down 3-0.

Do I think Zetterberg and Kronwall have undressed guys? Yeah I am pretty sure they have over the last several years. Has there been a huge reason to share it, probably not, that is a narrative that happens after a long run typically and we have not had one. But I doubt there is an accountability problem in the Wings dressing room, there hasn't been one for a long time and quite frankly they don't play like a team having one that is spiraling out of control which is generally what you see when that is happening.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Not really that is pretty old in terms of thinking and dripping with Don Cherry. There are plenty of European leaders around the league, this opinion was not only factually always pretty uneducated in my opinion but has certainly been disproved time and again since the influx of more European talent to the league.

I don't think the Wings have the type of room that typically has a lot of this going on and when they do that you hear about it all that much. I mean basically the times we used to hear about it are in stretches that we have played significantly worse than this year or after playoff runs where the guys walk in and say Drapes chewed us out after game 2 against Nashville or Yzerman tore the paint off the wall in Vancouver when we might go down 3-0.

Do I think Zetterberg and Kronwall have undressed guys? Yeah I am pretty sure they have over the last several years. Has there been a huge reason to share it, probably not, that is a narrative that happens after a long run typically and we have not had one. But I doubt there is an accountability problem in the Wings dressing room, there hasn't been one for a long time and quite frankly they don't play like a team having one that is spiraling out of control which is generally what you see when that is happening.

I think european players tend, again tend, to be more skill and less brawn in their approach to the game

that dosen't mean all are or none are ever not that way(just in general terms)

but i do think that they very makeup of our team in that our top guys are all european leads us to being a more passive team on the ice that can only play the game one way, a systems based approach and when its not working we have no ability whatsoever to play any other way

we simply can not play an in your face rough game, we dont have the calibre and style of players to do so

that is an organizational philosophical deliberate plan on the part of the GM

 

[PelagicJoe]

I agree. Larkin is the only truly aggressive player out there, along with maybe Abdelkader.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

No but I think the country club nature of the team definitely has an impact on things. Its too easygoing around here at times, nobody is in danger of losing anything regardless of their present performance. Being comfortable is a good thing but it can breed bad habits and mediocrity.

A dude like Brad Richards has 13 points playing all season with Datsyuk + PP time and nothing has or will change... he'll continue to be trotted out there while more talented players ride the pine.

 

[Probie]

No but I think the country club nature of the team definitely has an impact on things. Its too easygoing around here at times, nobody is in danger of losing anything regardless of their present performance. Being comfortable is a good thing but it can breed bad habits and mediocrity.

A dude like Brad Richards has 13 points playing all season with Datsyuk + PP time and nothing has or will change... he'll continue to be trotted out there while more talented players ride the pine.

I agree completely. Something has got to change. Being extra nice to players to get them to resign at cheaper salary can offset the effect of the country club atmosphere as more talent is on the ice. However we are not attracting high profile UFA's, nor are we resigning our current players to discount contracts, the abby, erricson and quincey deals are average to below average value. So this doesnt work.

There is no fear of players losing their jobs, there is a lack of hunger to be certain, and it hurts us in the standings.

We have too many similar players, our system doesn't work properly.
Like everyone knows our d can't clear the zone, or provide proper puck support in the ozone, and it hurts both defense and offense. Our forwards lack size, and the ability to win puck battles to an extent. We need to drop one of our weaker D, bring in an offensive D man who is a number 2 or number 1. We need to move at least one of our smaller wingers for a bigger grittier guy who can do well along the boards and do decently in front of the net. Even if these two things get done and only these two, it would help the team be better most definitely. Holland needs to friggin make some moves for a bloody change, others can do it, and he is proven to be the least active trading GM in the league. We have all our picks, we have some quality prospects, we have some roster players that can be moved as well. We have pieces. There are no more excuses. I dont want to hear any more of well we kicked the tires, or the prices were too high, or the return of so and so is our deadline acquisition. The prices are the same for all the other teams, and other teams make trades. Team needs to be fixed, I wonder if we miss the playoffs without some fixes, especially if Mrazek stops playing insanely good.

Not a fan of Blash line combos, no way him and his powerplay maestros dont take large amounts of the blame for our struggling offense. I really think things need to be fixed, and its not entirely on declining players.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Holland doesn't want to call up ouellet to get rid of Ericsson. Why? Because he's "a vet" and "a risk" But how do prospects become vets then and ouellet has already shown he's better then ericsson