Are the Blues Headed for a Fall?

[Stealth JD]

it really never is a good idea to build your team around a defense corps.

Agreed. Blues would have been better off collecting high-end forwards like Colorado and Edmonton. Teams like Nashville and St. Louis are hopelessly non-competitive.

 

[duul]

Agreed. Blues would have been better off collecting high-end forwards like Colorado and Edmonton. Teams like Nashville and St. Louis are hopelessly non-competitive.

This exactly.

Building around defence is the ideal way to win in this league. Obviously you need a franchise tier centreman to go along with it, but once you get those pieces, making a run is at least in the cards.

You aren't going anywhere near the cup without a deep defence.

 

[Meob]

Since we're talking about the Blues... why is it that Hitch will never use Fabbri as a C?

 

[Avs44]

it really never is a good idea to build your team around a defense corps.

You obviously need a balance - Nashville has had Weber, Suter, Josi, Subban, Ekholm, Ellis, Hamhuis, etc, running through their team, and they haven't accomplished anything significant in the playoffs - but as an Avs fan, I'd rather build around a defense than build around an offense. A great offense with a garbage defense doesn't get too far. See: Oilers, Avs (no longer, offense now sucks too, but back in 2013), and Stars. Build from the defense out, because I think it's much easier to build a good offense (there's always good forwards at the top of each draft) than it is to build a top defense.

 

[TruBlu]

So, instead of admitting you made things up and apologizing or trying to prove me wrong, you make more things up. Go find your safe space.



There is plenty to defend. We have a ton of great young talent. We have an excellent corps of defensemen. We have a talented young goalie who should resort back to what he has done the past two seasons. We have a GM and scouting staff that has found us a ton of great talent, in the NHL, AHL and lower levels. Our team defense has been an oddity this season, yet we are only 8 points out of first in the Central.

This team has not been trending downward all season, they have been inconsistent all season. The entire season they have looked great one game and terrible the next. Looking at the main issue, team defense, the past play of this team under Hitchcock and how they have played, at times, this year, there is no reason to think that this can't improve this season. The question is will it happen? I have no idea, but I am certainly not going to go post how terrible the team is and how we need to blow it up in Blues forums all over the internet.

It's sad and embarrassing to see.

I've not seen any Blues fans suggest blowing up the team. You are right that we are only 8 points out of first, but you aren't mentioning that we are only 4 points away from being out of the last playoff spot. we have been surpassed by Chicago, then Minnesota and, as mentioned before, pretty close to being knocked out of the third spot. We currently sit at 13th in the entire league after being in the 1st spot two weeks in. That is the absolute definition of trending down.

Yes, they can turn it around at any point, but the inconsistency you spoke of gives no one any reason to believe they know how to do that to this point. We are approaching the halfway point of the season and have a -6 in goal differential. If that trend continues, we will most certainly not be holding a birth to the post season. I feel your pain, too, but being honest about the teams play so far this season isn't the equivalent of hating on the team, it's simply being honest.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Then they will continue to flounder. 1st round exit is something to look forward to, I guess.

You gotta give, to get.

LOL this is the typical response to a poor offer being shot down.

"Give us X and we will give you Y"

"LOL no"

"WELL THEN YOU'RE DESTINED TO FAIL!!!!!"

 

[Oberyn]

Lol yeah we're pretty terrible this season, our team defense has been completely abysmal. I also think we might have the worst center depth in the league, for some reason Armstrong thought Lehtera was a top six center when he is clearly an awful player.

Hawks and Wild are definitely better than us. Nashville is probably getting there as well. I'd still take us over the Stars, Avs, and Jets but that isn't saying much.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

he definitely wouldn't go top 10 in a 2013 redraft.

 

[HolyJumpin]

Part of me hopes that this could be the year we pull the plug. This team has top ten talented assets at their peak and gave up everything this season. Doug Armstrong has been trying to ride a consistently ok product without trying to improve it for a while now and this is the season it shows.

Core players the Blues have lost over the past three seasons: Oshie, Backes, Brouwer, Elliot, and by the end of the year Shattenkirk is certainly looking like he's gonna end up the same way.

What have the Blues gotten in return for either trading or letting all these player walk? Jordan Kyrou, Pheonix Copley, and moving up a couple spots to get Tage Thompson.

These losses also helped keep players like Schwartz and Tarasenko locked up but then again there about 10 million or so locked up in two laughing stocks: Jay Bouwmeester and Jori Lehtera. And it looks like Armstrong has added another anchor to the list in Jake Allen.

I don't want this team to make it to the playoffs if its just another first round exit. Give us the opportunity to give Army the axe and give Bill Armstrong a chance to draft a real game changer.

 

[ChuckLefley]

I've not seen any Blues fans suggest blowing up the team. You are right that we are only 8 points out of first, but you aren't mentioning that we are only 4 points away from being out of the last playoff spot. we have been surpassed by Chicago, then Minnesota and, as mentioned before, pretty close to being knocked out of the third spot. We currently sit at 13th in the entire league after being in the 1st spot two weeks in. That is the absolute definition of trending down.

Yes, they can turn it around at any point, but the inconsistency you spoke of gives no one any reason to believe they know how to do that to this point. We are approaching the halfway point of the season and have a -6 in goal differential. If that trend continues, we will most certainly not be holding a birth to the post season. I feel your pain, too, but being honest about the teams play so far this season isn't the equivalent of hating on the team, it's simply being honest.

Do you honestly think Minnesota won't come back down to earth?

Are you really basing trending down on 3 or 4 games? If so, than it's clear you have your mind made up and, like a few others here, nothing will deter you from your dark clouds.

There is a difference between "being honest" and refusing to see anything positive or admit some things are outliers.

I am sorry you can't get beyond the dark clouds. You really should be posting at the asylum, with that attitude.

 

[AD1066]

The Leafs might......for a top young Defenceman.

Kadri for Parayco.

You get a guy who's on pace for 30 goals/55 points and who has a 4.5 million cap hit for the next 4 years, and the Leafs get a strong young D-man to pair with Rielly, or at least be in our top 4.

Bam.

Win-win.

That's a terrible deal for the Blues.

 

[Ducks in a row]

I mean, it depends what you expect out of them. They clearly have enough talent to make the playoffs so that's not really an issue.

But they won't go much farther than the 1st round. Jake Allen is an average goalie, and their center depth sucks.

Paul Stastny is on pace for about 40 points, and Jori Lehtera and Patrik Berglund look like they'll be lucky to even hit 30 right now.

You cannot go far with that. Blues fans know this. We need a legit top 6 center to make any noise whatsoever. But until we get that, we're not a threat. Just an average playoff team.

Really doesn't have much to do with Hitchcock and/or Yeo despite how many people will probably try to say that. This is exactly why we needed to use Shattenkirk in a trade for a center, but the time for that is running out. Doug Armstrong isn't a very good GM, that's just a fact. Doesn't use his assets wisely. We have very good wingers but our centers have been a problem for a while now and it's yet to be fixed.

And what center would Blues of gotten for him? Remember about his contract status with free agency. Just trading him for any top 6 center wouldn't of been good enough.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Then they will continue to flounder. 1st round exit is something to look forward to, I guess.

You gotta give, to get.

You think Blues trading Parayko for Kadri is good for the Blues and would stop them from floundering in the playoffs

 

[Oberyn]

And what center would Blues of gotten for him? Remember about his contract status with free agency. Just trading him for any top 6 center wouldn't of been good enough.

With our terrible center depth, any top six center would be an immediate upgrade

 

[Aerchon]

Especially if Shatty leaves and no significant RFAs decide to sign there the Blues days as a power house are over. Cup window closed.

However they should be a solid enough team barring the coaching change bringing out a total collapse.

They have a solid team, solid youth still as well. Just won't be a power house.

 

[Ducks in a row]

With our terrible center depth, any top six center would be an immediate upgrade

Sure trading him this season for a top 6 center will be great but what team will trade one for him this season? Last season Blues had been in better shape but again what team would of traded a top 6 center for someone getting so close to being a UFA? Another season back just trading for any top 6 center wouldn't of been smart they still wanted to compete then.

 

[Oberyn]

Sure trading him this season for a top 6 center will be great but what team will trade one for him this season? Last season Blues had been in better shape but again what team would of traded a top 6 center for someone getting so close to being a UFA?

Yeah that's the main issue with how Armstrong handled the Shattenkirk debacle. Our best opportunity was to trade him last offseason. It didn't even have to be for a top six center, it could have been for picks/prospects which could subsequently be used to acquire a center for this season. This was simply bad asset management by Armstrong who continually holds on to players too long and watches their value deteriorate.

 

[Studz]

Last year I said Blues have terrible center depth in a trade thread and got shelled.

However, Blues have two amazing #1 RHD, Pietrangelo and Parayko. Trade one for the best center you can get with either of them. It sucks giving up a player of this calibre but getting an equally great piece coming back should ease the pain.

Attempt to resign Shattenkirk.

Blues still have a fantastic roster and are a much more balanced team.

 

[Oberyn]

Last year I said Blues have terrible center depth in a trade thread and got shelled.

However, Blues have two amazing #1 RHD, Pietrangelo and Parayko. Trade one for the best center you can get with either of them. It sucks giving up a player of this calibre but getting an equally great piece coming back should ease the pain.

Attempt to resign Shattenkirk.

Blues still have a fantastic roster and are a much more balanced team.

Have free time so I decided to go to your post history and saw your quote about the Blues having terrible center depth. There was only one response to your quote and he didn't even refute what you said. Where exactly did you get "shelled"? It's been pretty obvious to Blues fans that our team has poor center depth.

 

[HolyJumpin]

Ok, so alternate question: how would people feel about the Blues if they made a Shattenkirk deal work for a Duchene, Stepan, or Tyler Johnson? Hypothetically, of course, because as every rangers fan has said that they're gonna get him as a free agent and I really don't want to read that junk over and over and over again.

 

[KirkOut]

Ok, so alternate question: how would people feel about the Blues if they made a Shattenkirk deal work for a Duchene, Stepan, or Tyler Johnson? Hypothetically, of course, because as every rangers fan has said that they're gonna get him as a free agent and I really don't want to read that junk over and over and over again.

First two are completely unrealistic and the third is a stretch at best. I and all Blues fans would be real happy.

 

[Meob]

Have free time so I decided to go to your post history and saw your quote about the Blues having terrible center depth. There was only one response to your quote and he didn't even refute what you said. Where exactly did you get "shelled"? It's been pretty obvious to Blues fans that our team has poor center depth.

Yeah that's odd considering Blue's fan have been complaining about lack of a top C for at least several years now.

 

[MNRube]

This exactly.

Building around defence is the ideal way to win in this league. Obviously you need a franchise tier centreman to go along with it, but once you get those pieces, making a run is at least in the cards.

You aren't going anywhere near the cup without a deep defence.

It's hilarious how often HF touts young teams like Avs/Leafs/Oils/Sabres due to their flashy young Fs. You win with defense and it's much smarter to develop the blueline then forwards. IMO, CBJ/PHI/CAR/MIN are just as set up for the future, because they are guaranteed to have a solid blueline. The rest still have the hardest and most important part of the roster to improve. Finding good young D if you don't draft/develop them is nearly impossible. You either have to overpay in a major way (Hall/Larsson) or completely bottom out like TML/BUF if you don't have young talent on blueline. Sure having Matthews/Marner/Nylander is elite, but I'd argue that having Provorov/Ghost/Sanheim/Morin, Hanifin/Slavin/Bean/Faulk, Spurgeon/Scandella/Brodin/Dumba/Reilly, Werenski/Jones/Murray/Savard is equally advantageous. The teams with good bluelines are a lock to be competitive well into the future, whereas the teams investing in forwards exclusively are going to take longer. Some of them might get lucky - Zaitzev, for example, looks like another top 4 piece found on the cheap - but generally you are foolish to invest all your assets in scoring talent. Look no further than Colorado, Edmonton and Buffalo. D are everything in today's NHL. Look at the standings, if you have good D you win. Pretty simple.

 

[HolyJumpin]

First two are completely unrealistic and the third is a stretch at best. I and all Blues fans would be real happy.

I'm not saying that it happens but really more or less what does everyone thinks this team looks like with another real top line center? Is this team instantly a contender? Does this team get things figured out?

 

[Meob]

I'm not saying that it happens but really more or less what does everyone thinks this team looks like with another real top line center? Is this team instantly a contender? Does this team get things figured out?

Not sure if they'd suddenly be a top contender, but a true #1 C with Tarasenko as a first line and Statsny with Fabbri as a second line would look pretty good with a solid D. Goaltending would still probably be a problem.