Prospect Info: April 2024 Red Wings Prospect voting #2

[Hen Kolland]

Kasper is a tough one because I really like his make-up, really like his game. He's the type of guy who when I watch him I think, as a hockey player, "man, I want to play on that guy's line." He has the traits I appreciate in the sport. And when I saw him last Saturday, he looked realgud.

Still, it's fair to call into question his ultimate upside because, let's be honest, his offensive numbers have never jumped off the page at any level. To me, his potential looks like either a driver of a 3rd-line, or a complementary top-6 piece. And I get that, as an 8th overall pick, that will be a disappointment to some. Personally, I think that's still pretty good, if he's providing real value in that role.

I can see a scenario where you have him and/or Mazur as (and I may deserve to be skewered for using this term) the piano-pullers on lines 1 and/or 2. Guys with enough skill to hang and mesh with more offensive players on their lines, but who are going to motor around, do some dirty work, agitate the other team. Force multipliers if you will.

What you are describing is "if we drafted Tyler Bertuzzi 2.0 in the top 10, would people be upset" and the answer is probably yes, but they also will forget how much impact Bertuzzi had for us in the top 6 and how influential his play was for Boston in the playoffs last year.

Will Kasper achieve that peak level, I have my doubts, but could he be what Bertuzzi has been for Toronto this year, I think that's entirely reasonable. A little more than half a point per game, play a hard nosed game along the boards and in front of the net. Score some ugly goals, finish some checks, wash some faces, get some late pokes in on the goalie, most importantly, give some two handers to your enemies like Bert did to Marchand last night.

 

[norrisnick]

My thoughts are it is kind of pointless to do the prospect thing right now, when in 2 months the draft happens.

This is the pre-draft ranking. Followed by the post-draft ranking. Then the post-development camp ranking. A penultimate post-rookie camp/pre-training camp ranking. And finally a post-training camp ranking.

 

[Hen Kolland]

This is the pre-draft ranking. Followed by the post-draft ranking. Then the post-development camp ranking. A penultimate post-rookie camp/pre-training camp ranking. And finally a post-training camp ranking.

You forgot the way too early pre- 2025-26 post-draft season ranking where we plug in 2025 1st round pick blindly as a placeholder but rank them higher than all of the other prospects because everyone knows that prospects only get better with each passing year relative to previous years.

 

[raymond23]

My thoughts are it is kind of pointless to do the prospect thing right now, when in 2 months the draft happens.

I don’t wanna be the thread police but I’m really confused why we’re doing this right now. Makes zero sense. Not even voting

 

[jaster]

I don’t wanna be the thread police but I’m really confused why we’re doing this right now. Makes zero sense. Not even voting

Henkka's only doing exactly what he did when he was the poll-poster on the Tampa Bay forum. This was totally predictable.

 

[Pavels Dog]

This is the pre-draft ranking. Followed by the post-draft ranking. Then the post-development camp ranking. A penultimate post-rookie camp/pre-training camp ranking. And finally a post-training camp ranking.

Skipping the mid-development camp ranking? This board has gone to hell.

 

[jaster]

What you are describing is "if we drafted Tyler Bertuzzi 2.0 in the top 10, would people be upset" and the answer is probably yes, but they also will forget how much impact Bertuzzi had for us in the top 6 and how influential his play was for Boston in the playoffs last year.

Will Kasper achieve that peak level, I have my doubts, but could he be what Bertuzzi has been for Toronto this year, I think that's entirely reasonable. A little more than half a point per game, play a hard nosed game along the boards and in front of the net. Score some ugly goals, finish some checks, wash some faces, get some late pokes in on the goalie, most importantly, give some two handers to your enemies like Bert did to Marchand last night.

Basically this, yeah. Bert was downright exceptional for this team when he was at his peak and before he ran into health [as well as the other health] problems. If Kasper gets close to that, but for more than 3-ish seasons, I'll be perfectly happy with the result myself.

I'll have to check highlights from last night. Some jackass down the street from me yesterday afternoon made the decision to cut down a tree in such a way that it fell on power lines, so I didn't see any hockey last night. Sounds like a good one though.

 

[DoMakc]

What you are describing is "if we drafted Tyler Bertuzzi 2.0 in the top 10, would people be upset" and the answer is probably yes, but they also will forget how much impact Bertuzzi had for us in the top 6 and how influential his play was for Boston in the playoffs last year.

Will Kasper achieve that peak level, I have my doubts, but could he be what Bertuzzi has been for Toronto this year, I think that's entirely reasonable. A little more than half a point per game, play a hard nosed game along the boards and in front of the net. Score some ugly goals, finish some checks, wash some faces, get some late pokes in on the goalie, most importantly, give some two handers to your enemies like Bert did to Marchand last night.

If you formulate the question as "if we drafted Tyler Bertuzzi 2.0 who is a legit center and actually can skate, would be people upset", the answer would be no. Well the answer should be "no", but since people are mostly morons, they still would answer with "yes".

 

[norrisnick]

If you formulate the question as "if we drafted Tyler Bertuzzi 2.0 who is a legit center and actually can skate, would be people upset", the answer would be no. Well the answer should be "no", but since people are mostly morons, they still would answer with "yes".

Case in point: Bertuzzi, Tyler.

 

[izlez]

Its the Red Wings off season. We can do one again after the draft when there is literally nothing else going on. Or, we can do a poll for our top 3 picks with the question "where would you slot this guy in these rankings".

These are generally good for generating discussion when every other horse has been beaten to death. Give me more per year.

(This does not mean I support all of Henkka's other chaotic decisions he makes while running these)

 

[lilidk]

Look at AHL gf across the league. It’s pretty low scoring there.

If Kasper can improve his midrange shooting I think he’s a 20 goal, 50+ point guy. That’s solid 2nd line numbers anywhere. Also keep in mind he’s an AHL rookie and is just now 20?

I don’t think Kasper will be any worse than Compher, and he’ll be an upgrade on Veleno and Copp for sure.

That's why he should be with Wings next season preferably with Berggren and mentor, say Perron.

 

[FissionFire]

Add Augustine

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That's why he should be with Wings next season preferably with Berggren and mentor, say Perron.

I think that could make a good third line. Though I’ve come around to the idea of throwing Berggren into a trade for an upgrade.

 

[norrisnick]

I think that could make a good third line. Though I’ve come around to the idea of throwing Berggren into a trade for an upgrade.

I'm leery of upgrades to Burgers that are moving the player more in a Ras direction and away from offensive skills/puck possession direction. There aren't going to be many skill upgrades to Berggren out there available. Even with a 1st attached.

Like a hypothetical 1st and Berggren+ for Zegras... I'd rather just keep Burgers and the pick. Cheaper and with spoonfed top line ice time on a bad team he can score too.

 

[Henkka]

I don’t wanna be the thread police but I’m really confused why we’re doing this right now. Makes zero sense. Not even voting

In the board history, we have made these in April, May, June, August and January at least.

Not every year like that, but this has always been like a changing thing.

My opinion is, that this time is pretty good. Sometimes, things like AHL playoff hype could just get somebody too high on rankings. This is the best time to consider long-lasting regular seasons, which is the biggest sample size.

Imo, it's kind of tough and stupid to fit just drafted prospects, which no one can really compare to our existing prospect core. You need more info about them.

August is another good time for polls, when nothing happens at hockey world. Then the deveopment camp impacts usually will get overrated....

But also, then many will be "off on a vacation" from here, so the poll and discussion isn't that fulfilled as it seems to be now, when people are still very interested in the season.

It's nice to see how much of discussion is going on. That's the main purpose for all. Not the poll, in real.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I think that could make a good third line. Though I’ve come around to the idea of throwing Berggren into a trade for an upgrade.

I too have come around to this. I feel his value is at the right spot and could be packaged with #15 to obtain a legit option at RD for us. I just don't feel he's going to fit in this org's long term plans.

Maybe becomes what we've been hoping for somewhere like, San Jose? Just like a familiar face from that same draft

 

[Pavels Dog]

My opinion is, that this time is pretty good. Sometimes, things like AHL playoff hype could just get somebody too high on rankings. This is the best time to consider long-lasting regular seasons, which is the biggest sample size.

But.. if we do it later.. the playoffs are part of the sample size. Like... they're not mutually exclusive sample sizes!

 

[jaster]

But.. if we do it later.. the playoffs are part of the sample size. Like... they're not mutually exclusive sample sizes!

Yeah but the playoffs will just skew how we think of the prospects. We'll obviously put too much stock in playoff performances and that'll just mess things up. Like, for example, if a player has a great playoff performance, you're liable to rank him too high after that. That would be a problem. Better to cut the playoffs out of the sample size, protect the polling against your inability to properly weigh playoff performances, and put more weight on games that matter.... less. Wait. Something doesn't seem right here.

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah but the playoffs will just skew how we think of the prospects. We'll obviously put too much stock in playoff performances and that'll just mess things up. Like, for example, if a player has a great playoff performance, you're liable to rank him too high after that. That would be a problem. Better to cut the playoffs out of the sample size, protect the polling against your inability to properly weigh playoff performances, and put more weight on games that matter.... less. Wait. Something doesn't seem right here.

No no no, you didn't read it right. If we include fewer games with our ranking, the sample size is bigger.

 

[jaster]

No no no, you didn't read it right. If we include fewer games with our ranking, the sample size is bigger.

Ahhhhh, ‘less is more,’ got it!

 

[Go Wings]

ASP who should have been number 1