Any Sullivan Defenders Left?

[The Old Master]

Hockey is really not that black and white, like say, the NFL where everyone is a chess piece and the coach has something typically very specific that a player is good at. Hockey, first and foremost, is a team game. When the team is working cohesively, that's when things get rolling.

1. it could be, depending on the system
2. that's a well-coached team and can be accomplished several ways (if the team is willing to buy in.
3. I agree with everything else.

Sullivan eats cold canned dog food and insists it’s a delicious steak.

i wouldn't mind that, but he wants everyone else to eat it too.

 

[Pens1566]

Sullivan's problems are so obvious, I'm not sure how anyone can really miss it.

He insists on square peg/round holing anyone to fit his "system". Even though that system hasn't really worked since the first cup run. Yet he keeps sticking with it thinking that one of these seasons, it'll work again with all the key pieces just being almost a decade older.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I got "off the train" after we lost in 2018. Even back then, it seemed obvious that what had worked the previous two seasons was never going to work again. And here we are.

This organization has more issues than just Sullivan. He is not the only one who refuses to admit that it is time to start infusing youth around the aging core (and by youth I don't mean the current situation, where 26 seems to be the admission age for the NHL roster).

If 87, 71, 58 and now 65 are not on board with the idea that we need to go younger, do it anyway. Are they going to retire? Ask for a trade? Are they going to be upset with a coaching change?

This team is going nowhere, so even keeping them around at all costs now does not seem as set in stone as it used to be.

Rebuilding on the fly. Let's see if Kyle Dubas can pull it off. He has impressed me so far, but perhaps this next project is bigger than anyone is capable of doing.

 

[JTG]

We are so far beyond his expiration date. We're at the stage where if you drink that milk, you're going to be on toilet for the next 24hrs.

I don't necessarily agree, and that thought went out the window for me when we changed coaches, changed assistant coaches, and the powerplay still remained the same. For better or worse, the players have a ton of pull here.

I do think a shake up would be best for the team, in general. With that being said, the players take blame also. A coach doesn't play the game. A coach doesn't make dumb plays. A coach doesn't play recklessly. Now he can tell them not to do it, but whether they listen or not is another issue entirely, and that does lend credence to the guys knowing that they can just not listen and he won't do anything about it.

In 2016, do you remember Geno bitching at a ref on the bench and Sully gets right in his ear and goes, "SHUT THE f*** UP!" I think we are past that Sully at this point and that's the guy that needs to come back.

1. it could be, depending on the system
2. that's a well-coached team and can be accomplished several ways (if the team is willing to buy in.
3. I agree with everything else.


i wouldn't mind that, but he wants everyone else to eat it too.

I don't find the system to be the type where you need certain guys to do what they want to accomplish. Now if it were a Detroit team under Babs...absolutely. That's a highly rigid system where you needed to be uber-disciplined and 5 men needed to play as 1. That has never been the thing here since Therrien left, and that's not the system these guys thrived in.

 

[Victor Z]

If 87, 71, 58 and now 65 are not on board with the idea that we need to go younger, do it anyway. Are they going to retire? Ask for a trade? Are they going to be upset with a coaching change?

I hope so, and the new boss of the Penguin Country Club better not be some stooge like Reirden or Vellucci. That changes practically nothing.

It might just be the case that the old dogs don't play their best hockey when they are so verrrrry comfortable (and held accountable for *nothing*, except Malkin sometimes), and it wouldn't kill them to learn a few new tricks.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In 2016, do you remember Geno bitching at a ref on the bench and Sully gets right in his ear and goes, "SHUT THE f*** UP!" I think we are past that Sully at this point and that's the guy that needs to come back.

Now Sully is the one who is constantly bitching about the refs. Years past he'd give a wry smile and move on. Now he's yammering on 2 minutes after the other team has scored on their PP

 

[Gurglesons]

Any one want to take a stab at who the last Penguins prospect to score a goal with Pittsburgh was?

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

The question is if Sully has lost the team, or is it just his system sucks?
- The former is easiest way to get him fired.
- The latter...ugh...comes down to Dubas having the nads to fire him, and is entirely subjective to the owners/GM perception of what's going on.

I don't know if they can do any small trades anymore to make a difference. They may look at doing another blockbuster trade (what? EK wasn't enough?) to blame the players instead of Sully.

I don't know why the owners can't see that everything around Sully has changed. He has an upgraded roster, a new world class D, and a new bottom 6 which, for all practical purposes, he hand picked!

Everything has changed except himself!

 

[TheGoldenJet]

The question is if Sully has lost the team, or is it just his system sucks?

In both of these cases, wouldn’t firing him be the right move anyway?

 

[pistolpete11]

The question is if Sully has lost the team, or is it just his system sucks?
- The former is easiest way to get him fired.
- The latter...ugh...comes down to Dubas having the nads to fire him, and is entirely subjective to the owners/GM perception of what's going on.

I don't know if they can do any small trades anymore to make a difference. They may look at doing another blockbuster trade (what? EK wasn't enough?) to blame the players instead of Sully.

I don't know why the owners can't see that everything around Sully has changed. He has an upgraded roster, a new world class D, and a new bottom 6 which, for all practical purposes, he hand picked!

Everything has changed except himself!

 

[JTG]

Any one want to take a stab at who the last Penguins prospect to score a goal with Pittsburgh was?

Bjorkvist. Drafted in 2016. Wild.

Could claim Kapanen

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

In both of these cases, wouldn’t firing him be the right move anyway?

Yes, but usually coaches when you have a system that doesn't work, you can muddle along in mediocrity, and it takes a lot to get fired. Not to mention the ownership likes Sully. I don't know why the ownership said so many things to publicly endorse Sully like that.

Depends....
If you keep an iron fist on the team, and keep "the hope alive" then your system can suck, but you don't lose the team (aka they still listen to you). Right now you are beginning to see effort waning.

You can look back at Therrien, who clearly lost his team.

 

[pistolpete11]

Depends....
If you keep an iron fist on the team, and keep "the hope alive" then your system can suck, but you don't lose the team (aka they still listen to you). Right now you are beginning to see effort waning.

You can look back at Therrien, who clearly lost his team.

I think he's lost the team because his system sucks and the players know it. Same thing happened with Johnston.

 

[cygnus47]

He finally adjusted the system last night in the D zone. I have no faith in him to stick to it or make the other necessary changes, but this is about the first time in 5 years I've liked a Sully decision.