Anton Lundell VS Tim Stutzle

[bert]

Who is the better player currently.

Click to read more...

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I'd call it even.
Stutzle gets way more PP time but Lundell did a lot of better things than Stutzle this past year.

If Lundell gets more ES/PP time, his production should go up and close the gap in points.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Stutzle will be in a different tier as an offensive player.

 

[yzerman]

Easy Stutzle for now

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Very Easy Stutzle

Why very easy?

 

[yzerman]

Why very easy?

I take that back was dumb to say very easy but i think he is now better and maybe in the future going to be clearly better would been a better answer.

 

[Gurglesons]

Lundell easily. Kid was always going to be a stud from day one.

 

[Lavar Ball]

I'd say about even, Lundell's 200 foot game evens out Stu's offensive edge right now.

I do agree Stutzle will end up the superior player, but I also think Lundell will be fantastic

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I would put them very close right now.

I would give Stutzle a pretty significant edge on the PP, pretty even offensively at ES, and I can only assume Lundell is a better defensive player than Stutzle currently (although that's a bit of a guess... can't say I've seen enough of Lundell to get a great idea of his defensive zone play).

Lundell definitely had better line mates - lots and lots of Reinhart & Marchment, and when he wasn't with Marchment he was with Reinhart + Verhaege or with Vatrano (to a lesser extent)... then a smattering of Mamin, Huberdeau, and Duclair.

Stutzle, on the other hand, was mostly played with Formenton and a combination of Brown and... Gaudette! Next on the list is Paul, then Batherson, then Tkachuk, then Norris... point is, while he played with some good players, his main linemates at ES were far below those of Lundell.

I think Stutzle will separate himself in the future, however:
1) Both players need to grow into their frames more, but Stutzle is a far more physical player and I think an increase in strength will have a greater impact on his play than the same growth will have on Lundell.
2) Lundell may always be better defensively, but Stutzle has the smarts, the effort, and the commitment to improve that makes me quite confident he will be a good defensive player.
3) Stutzle's skill and offensive IQ are simply on a higher level. He also shoots & skates better. Lundell may be the better passer.
4) While Lundell will likely be a very good PP player, Stutzle already is a dynamic threat on the PP and will continue to improve.
5) Stutzle will draw as many penalties as anyone over the next decade. As he grows stronger, he will shed the diver label and will just be a raging bull who opponents cheat to stop.

Right now, I would say they are both good 2nd liners. Lundell should be an elite 2nd C or a solid #1C, but I think Stutzle can and will be a borderline-superstar C. I didn't think this way before last season... thought he would be an allstar, 1st line winger. But he quieted a lot of my concerns over the course of the year.

Lundell easily. Kid was always going to be a stud from day one.

Saying "easily" discredits you pretty immediately. I can see why someone takes Lundell today and moving forward. If you think it's not close, well, then you must think Lundell will be stealing the #1C job from Barkov pretty soon.

Both are stud players, right now, and both will continue to grow.

 

[Beezeral]

For those saying stutzle is the better 5 on 5 player, Lundell outperformed stutzle at 5 on 5 with less games played.

 

[Korpse]

For those saying stutzle is the better 5 on 5 player, Lundell outperformed stutzle at 5 on 5 with less games played.

Gives me vibes of leafs fans arguing Luke Schenn outperformed Erik Karlsson 5v5 following the 2010/2011 season. Similar arguments that Schenn was actually close offensively and the only difference was that Karlsson got PP time etc. Not to say Lundell will take a similar career path but it’s a pretty weak argument. Using statistics is fine and all but when it’s your sole argument, its trouble.

 

[Xspyrit]

(disclaimer : not a direct comparison)

This is like comparing MacKinnon and Barkov

I'd really like to have both but gun to my head I take Stutzle. Luckily for Ottawa, they have Shane Pinto. He might not be as elite as Lundell but he will be pretty high end 2-way center too

My 2020 pre-draft, I had 1. Lafreniere 2. Stutzle 3. Byfield 4. Raymond 5. Drysdale then had a tier with Sanderson, Rossi, Lundell and Holtz

I was very high on Lundell so I was kinda expecting him to be that good that early. Stutzle is beast in development though. I'm linking this video to those who haven't had the chance to scout Stutzle that much :

 

[Beezeral]

Gives me vibes of leafs fans arguing Luke Schenn outperformed Erik Karlsson 5v5 following the 2010/2011 season. Similar arguments that Schenn was actually close offensively and the only difference was that Karlsson got PP time etc. Not to say Lundell will take a similar career path but it’s a pretty weak argument. Using statistics is fine and all but when it’s your sole argument, its trouble.

I don't know about the Luke Schenn v. EK argument,

but right now, at 5 on 5

These are not insignificant data points. Lundell was a superior producer at 5 on 5 than Stutlze. 5 more points in 14 less games is a decent gap.


Lundell has the advantage in per 60 metrics as well. So it's not like his better 5 on 5 numbers are a product of more ice time.

Stutzle has established himself as a very good player on the PP. Lundell hasn't been given that opportunity yet.

And because I have these available to me...

In conclsion, IMO Right now Lundell has established himself as the better player. Would I take him over Stutzle long term? I'll give it a homer yes, but won't really blame people for wanting the potential of Stutzle.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Consider me skeptical that Lundell's production is an indicator of elite offensive potential when he played in a high-powered offense in which Mason freaking Marchment produced almost a point per game.

44 points in 65 games played is impressive, but when that makes you the 7th highest scoring forward on your team it should raise some eyebrows.

No doubt he has the potential to develop into a #1 center with his smart two-way game, but I don't think he'll ever out-produce Stutzle when both are in their primes.

 

[NyQuil]

There's a pretty huge discrepancy in terms of the supporting environment - with one guy playing for a President's Trophy winning team and the other for a non-playoff team.

Yes, Lundell hasn't gotten the same opportunities, but he's also playing on a much stronger team from top to bottom.

In general, with younger players, I'll favour the player with the better offensive skill set as defense is something that can be taught.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Lundell easily. Kid was always going to be a stud from day one.

The GurgGod has spoken.
Thats a wrap.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

There's a pretty huge discrepancy in terms of the supporting environment - with one guy playing for a President's Trophy winning team and the other for a non-playoff team.

Yes, Lundell hasn't gotten the same opportunities, but he's also playing on a much stronger team from top to bottom.

In general, with younger players, I'll favour the player with the better offensive skill set as defense is something that can be taught.

Defense can be taught but doesn't mean someone will continue to pursue that aspect of the game.

Gimme the player who thinks 200ft all the time with potential to be a legit 2C/low end #1C if Barkov wasn't here.

Even if Stutzle has say 7-10 extra points a year on average, not sure he will be the 200ft player Lundell is looking to become.

Feels like more of a preference pick than say Stutzle or Lundell will be [-----] this much better argument

 

[Masked]

There's a pretty huge discrepancy in terms of the supporting environment - with one guy playing for a President's Trophy winning team and the other for a non-playoff team.

Let's not forget that Lundell is a 2001 born while Stutzle is a 2002 born.

The apples to apples comparison when it comes to their seasons it to compare Stutzle's upcoming season to Lundell's past season.

Assen na yo!

 

[Beezeral]

Let's not forget that Lundell is a 2001 born while Stutzle is a 2002 born.

The apples to apples comparison when it comes to their seasons it to compare Stutzle's upcoming season to Lundell's past season.

Assen na yo!

you kill me with the stuff you come up with.

Lundell was born October 3, 2001.

Stutzle was born January 15, 2002.

Roughly 3.5 months apart.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Let's not forget that Lundell is a 2001 born while Stutzle is a 2002 born.

The apples to apples comparison when it comes to their seasons it to compare Stutzle's upcoming season to Lundell's past season.

Assen na yo!

How many months of birth/existence does Lundell have over Stutzle?

 

[Pavels Dog]

For those saying stutzle is the better 5 on 5 player, Lundell outperformed stutzle at 5 on 5 with less games played.

Florida also scored like 70 more goals at 5-on-5, it was ridiculously easier to come by production on that Florida team compared to bad, low-scoring teams like Ottawa.

 

[Gurglesons]

Florida also scored like 70 more goals at 5-on-5, it was ridiculously easier to come by production on that Florida team compared to bad, low-scoring teams like Ottawa.

I don't really see this being the win you think it is. Lundell scoring what he did in that environment as a rookie is a positive in my mind.

 

[Korpse]

In conclsion, IMO Right now Lundell has established himself as the better player. Would I take him over Stutzle long term? I'll give it a homer yes, but won't really blame people for wanting the potential of Stutzle.

Thats fine. And I’m not trying to say anyone is wrong for picking Lundell. I just find the 5v5 argument has been rather underwhelming over the years. Especially early in careers.

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

I don't know about the Luke Schenn v. EK argument,

but right now, at 5 on 5

View attachment 580846

View attachment 580845

These are not insignificant data points. Lundell was a superior producer at 5 on 5 than Stutlze. 5 more points in 14 less games is a decent gap.


Lundell has the advantage in per 60 metrics as well. So it's not like his better 5 on 5 numbers are a product of more ice time.

Stutzle has established himself as a very good player on the PP. Lundell hasn't been given that opportunity yet.

And because I have these available to me...

View attachment 580847

View attachment 580848

In conclsion, IMO Right now Lundell has established himself as the better player. Would I take him over Stutzle long term? I'll give it a homer yes, but won't really blame people for wanting the potential of Stutzle.

Lundell also has the advantage of being on a presidents trophy team, where one of his line mates was PPG on the 3rd line. Both good players, but Stutzle carried his line and was one of the best players in the league during the second half of the season and looks to be ascending into the next tier of superstars.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

How is this even a question? Tim Stützle Is one of the best players in the league. Kids grow up wanting to be Tim Stützle - not Anton Lundell.

This isn’t even close. If you say Lundell here you’re delusional and a homer.