Anthony DeAngelo's Potential/Future

[rt]

I agree. I really like DeAngelo. This racial slur bull---- is getting out of hand. You should have heard what we called other players back in the day, yet we were all friends.

It wasn't a racial slur. People assume that. But it wasn't.

 

[rt]

It kind of seems like you and Jakey are suggesting racial slurs are ok. They're not. If you've never lived a life as a visual minority that's been discriminated against then you're simply not in a position to suggest that further discrimination isn't a big deal.

There were no "visual minorities" on his team at the time. It was not a slur about skin color. The policy protects against all abusive language, not JUST race, sexual orientation and religion. It very likely wasn't a racial slur based on team composition. Maybe it was a slur against nationality, religion or sexual preference. Probably it was just a very vulgar and nasty thing.

 

[PhoPhan]

In my experience—a little more than a decade of tutoring teenagers—kids who use racial, gay or any other slurs tend not to be moral paragons otherwise. That you would call someone a ****** even out of reflexive anger suggests that you see homosexuality as some kind of shortcoming, but it pretty much always goes hand-in-hand with other character issues. Tony DeAngelo is not a good samaritan who had a lapse. He's a flawed human who has the potential to reform. Because of his hockey talent, he'll be given chance after chance that too many gay kids still can't have. That's not a good thing, and to celebrate it or even write it off as "PC culture" contributes to the problem. There are still 0 openly gay NHL players, and it seems far more likely that attitudes like DeAngelo's keep that the status quo than that there has never been a gay man good enough to play hockey at the highest level.

At any rate, dismissive attitudes aren't going to help anyone. DeAngelo has been held accountable for his actions, and it's up to him to grow up.

 

[RemoAZ]

It kind of seems like you and Jakey are suggesting racial slurs are ok. They're not. If you've never lived a life as a visual minority that's been discriminated against then you're simply not in a position to suggest that further discrimination isn't a big deal.

Not going to get too personal but yes, I have experience lots of ethnic discrimination mostly for people thinking I'm not the ethnic background I actually am. I've also received plenty of jokes about what I actually am. I could have complained and probably got people fired over the years if I was like so many in the PC crowd. Slurs in athletics happen all the time. People are called ethnic/racial/homosexual names all the time in the heat of battle. It's not "ok" but the way people are persecuted for something they say while playing a game is ridiculous. Hockey has the easiest way to deal with it. If the guy really does offend you, punch him in the mouth and move on. Don't label him for years for one word he said in anger. I love the fact that there are more and more Hispanic, black, European and Asian guys every year. Hopefully it will get rid of all the profiling hockey players and fans get from people that don't care for the sport. I choose to look at each person individually and not try to label them. People are different. That's a good thing as long as you aren't forcing your will or beliefs on others.

 

[XX]

It's not "ok" but the way people are persecuted for something they say while playing a game is ridiculous.

Hockey is a game when kids play it in the street or on a pond. Professionals under contract are under considerably more scrutiny. Drop a racial slur in a professional setting sometime and let me know how it goes for you. It's not a lot to ask a kid to not say stupid **** when they're being paid handsomely.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Hockey is a game when kids play it in the street or on a pond. Professionals under contract are under considerably more scrutiny. Drop a racial slur in a professional setting sometime and let me know how it goes for you. It's not a lot to ask a kid to not say stupid **** when they're being paid handsomely.

So at what point does this stop following him? A stupid comment should not determine his whole life. That punishment is far too high.

 

[RemoAZ]

Hockey is a game when kids play it in the street or on a pond. Professionals under contract are under considerably more scrutiny. Drop a racial slur in a professional setting sometime and let me know how it goes for you. It's not a lot to ask a kid to not say stupid **** when they're being paid handsomely.

I agree with what you are saying but how long is the kid, which he basically still is going to be persecuted for it? I'm sure he learned from it. Should we be considering trading him because of it? I don't think so. He did something stupid. How many mulit-time offenders for drugs, drunk driving, cheating on their wives and other morally offensive things are there? There's worse things than calling someone a name.

 

[XX]

I agree with what you are saying but how long is the kid, which he basically still is going to be persecuted for it? I'm sure he learned from it. Should we be considering trading him because of it? I don't think so. He did something stupid. How many mulit-time offenders for drugs, drunk driving, cheating on their wives and other morally offensive things are there? There's worse things than calling someone a name.

There are worse things. We even have laws to discourage some of them! But I don't see anyone "persecuting" DeAngelo. I think you need to go spend some time around people that are actually persecuted for who they are as human beings. Reminding everyone that he's a hothead (he did shove a ref) and a dumbass of sorts is hardly prosecution.

So at what point does this stop following him? A stupid comment should not determine his whole life. That punishment is far too high.

He's still in the league isn't he? And tough ****, you live in the digital age. You act like a moron, it's going to follow you. Be a good person and good to each other. It's not hard. It will stop following him when he stops drawing attention to himself by doing stupid ****.

 

[RufusG]

There's worse things than calling someone a name.

That kind of thinking will get you a ban on other boards.

 

[PhoPhan]

No one is advocating trading him because of his mistakes in juniors. I was excited when they traded for him, in spite of that. But it's not as simple as a one-time mistake. It's an underlying issue that needs to be addressed. It seems like it is being addressed. It's definitely something to keep an eye on, though.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So at what point does this stop following him? A stupid comment should not determine his whole life. That punishment is far too high.

Probably when he stops doing it. The knock against him isn't that he said one thing, it's that he has a habit of saying and doing many things with no apparent sense of remorse or introspection. Some people take that more personally than others depending on personal or political mores, but practically speaking it's an indicator that he's a loose cannon, and it's that lack of discipline ON THE ICE that made him expendable to Tampa Bay.

 

[RemoAZ]

Well I for one hope he continues to mature and learn from his past. The last thing I always tell someone when I have to give them a written counseling notice is if this doesn't happen again, we won't have to talk about it again. Learn from it and move on. If not, he won't be the first or last talented individual to blow his chance at a career in professional sports for being stupid.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Well I for one hope he continues to mature and learn from his past. The last thing I always tell someone when I have to give them a written counseling notice is if this doesn't happen again, we won't have to talk about it again. Learn from it and move on. If not, he won't be the first or last talented individual to blow his chance at a career in professional sports for being stupid.

I agree completely. Personally, I would have hoped that making the big leagues would have been the wake-up call he needed, but so far that hasn't seemed to be the case. That's where we'll miss Shane Doan the most, I think - he's the kind of guy who can mentor young pros, but also hand out some stern fatherly whup-ass if they get out of line.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if DeAngelo can somehow screw his head on straight, he could be a big-time player for us. It's the waiting for him to do it that will be hardest - and Chayka may decide not to wait if it means bringing back a more secure asset.

 

[rt]

In my experience—a little more than a decade of tutoring teenagers—kids who use racial, gay or any other slurs tend not to be moral paragons otherwise. That you would call someone a ****** even out of reflexive anger suggests that you see homosexuality as some kind of shortcoming, but it pretty much always goes hand-in-hand with other character issues. Tony DeAngelo is not a good samaritan who had a lapse. He's a flawed human who has the potential to reform. Because of his hockey talent, he'll be given chance after chance that too many gay kids still can't have. That's not a good thing, and to celebrate it or even write it off as "PC culture" contributes to the problem. There are still 0 openly gay NHL players, and it seems far more likely that attitudes like DeAngelo's keep that the status quo than that there has never been a gay man good enough to play hockey at the highest level.

At any rate, dismissive attitudes aren't going to help anyone. DeAngelo has been held accountable for his actions, and it's up to him to grow up.

You shouldn't say mean stuff to people. But usually you do when you're in an altercation, especially a physical one. Typically there are some pejoratives thrown around before the fisticuffs are. Mouths fly before hands do in most cases. If you call someone a "scumsucker" moments before you punch them in the head, you typically aren't making some kind of a value statement about the way they choose to maintain aquaria in their own homes. Nor are you necessarily besmirching aquaria culture as a whole. At a base level, being called a "scumsucker" is just mean. It hurts a little. Which is the point. A punch in the face hurts, too. Which is also the point. The idea is to inflict pain.

 

[rt]

Hockey is a game when kids play it in the street or on a pond. Professionals under contract are under considerably more scrutiny. Drop a racial slur in a professional setting sometime and let me know how it goes for you. It's not a lot to ask a kid to not say stupid **** when they're being paid handsomely.

He didn't drop a racial slur. Please stop saying that.

 

[rt]

There are worse things. We even have laws to discourage some of them! But I don't see anyone "persecuting" DeAngelo. I think you need to go spend some time around people that are actually persecuted for who they are as human beings. Reminding everyone that he's a hothead (he did shove a ref) and a dumbass of sorts is hardly prosecution.



He's still in the league isn't he? And tough ****, you live in the digital age. You act like a moron, it's going to follow you. Be a good person and good to each other. It's not hard. It will stop following him when he stops drawing attention to himself by doing stupid ****.

He's a meathead for sure. No debating that. Anyone remember Jeremy Roenick or Chris Chelios? My god. I'm glad we've made enough progress that Anthony DeAngelo is worthy of some hand wringing.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I agree completely. Personally, I would have hoped that making the big leagues would have been the wake-up call he needed, but so far that hasn't seemed to be the case. That's where we'll miss Shane Doan the most, I think - he's the kind of guy who can mentor young pros, but also hand out some stern fatherly whup-ass if they get out of line.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if DeAngelo can somehow screw his head on straight, he could be a big-time player for us. It's the waiting for him to do it that will be hardest - and Chayka may decide not to wait if it means bringing back a more secure asset.

I hope Doan stays on in some sort of player development capacity if he does retire, and this is a prime reason.

 

[KG]

lol I've never seen a more controversial player who has accomplished as little as DeAngelo has on this board to date.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

I think the whole slur thing is being overplayed. He was pretty much a high school student at the time, and God knows I did and said stupid stuff when I was that age.

Now however he is a professional and his actions need to reflect that. If they don't then we can talk

 

[Ebb]

I agree completely. Personally, I would have hoped that making the big leagues would have been the wake-up call he needed, but so far that hasn't seemed to be the case. That's where we'll miss Shane Doan the most, I think - he's the kind of guy who can mentor young pros, but also hand out some stern fatherly whup-ass if they get out of line.

I believe Doan came under fire a while back for derogatory word use as well.

So, DeAngelo was an idiot; there are plenty of those on (and off) the ice in this world. It just seems he comes under scrutiny because of other factors about his personality/public image as well. Of course, I'd prefer a ban on all social media from all people, but unfortunately, I can't enforce my view. If anything, all clubs should be training athletes on social media and public image. Of course, that doesn't necessarily solve things if the athlete isn't willing to listen.

I've had to deal with college students saying such things as well and have heard derogatory words uttered in a number of public places and on several occasions as well. One flub should be forgiven (after a talking to/suspension). If it continues or becomes more prevalent, that is when you can start trying to end a player's career because of it (unless they are a star of course, than you let it go without any repercussions ).

 

[The Feckless Puck]

lol I've never seen a more controversial player who has accomplished as little as DeAngelo has on this board to date.

It's because of the natural tendency to overrate what we have. Duclair gets the same treatment. And there's really nothing wrong with that because it's a function of fan hopes. As long as you have hope, you can weather almost anything (and we have!).

I did the same thing - overrating, I mean - with Enver Lisin back in the day. I saw his electric speed and release and I thought he was going to be special. I couldn't see that he couldn't steer, or that he couldn't aim, or any of his other warts because Lisin was just astoundingly fast.

We also tend to overrate because the supporting casts of our rosters have been so, so average at the very best. The responses to our exposed list for the expansion draft have been pretty funny in a very soul-wrenchingly sad way. When you're at that low of a water mark, any glimpse of potential has a tendency to be exaggerated.

 

[XX]

We're not overrating ****. DeAngelo has the potential to be a very valuable player with the right opportunities and coaching. Every team in the league would be thrilled to have him as an option.

If he can score at a 30 point pace with absolute trash while playing garbage minutes, he can do a lot better in the future.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

We're not overrating ****. DeAngelo has the potential to be a very valuable player with the right opportunities and coaching. Every team in the league would be thrilled to have him as an option.

Every player in the league has the potential to be a very valuable player with the right opportunities and coaching. And I know of at least one team that could care less if they had him as an option.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree with what you are saying but how long is the kid, which he basically still is going to be persecuted for it? I'm sure he learned from it. Should we be considering trading him because of it? I don't think so. He did something stupid. How many mulit-time offenders for drugs, drunk driving, cheating on their wives and other morally offensive things are there? There's worse things than calling someone a name.

Exactly.

 

[XX]

Every player in the league has the potential to be a very valuable player with the right opportunities and coaching.

Talent levels aren't equal. Ages aren't equal. Contract statuses are not equal. DeAngelo is not overrated; he has a very good chance at being a valuable player. The premise of your post is absurd. Duclair isn't "overrated" either. We know damn well his value in trade is low, but he was also the anchor of the Yandle deal and has scored 20 goals in this league playing with random crap.

The Coyotes protection list is sad-sack because everyone that would require protecting either was traded or is walking as an UFA. That's what a rebuild looks like. It's fortuitous timing, not some sorry ass reflection on the organization.

The self-loathing around here is lame as hell.