Post-Game Talk: Another OT Loss to the Flyers

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yes I do. I expect at GM given a 7 year contract to come and actually take control of his team. Not saying to criticize sully but take actually control of things, is something I do expect. It looks like he just gave sully new pets and then went on a vacation until the core is done.

He removed two albatross contracts from the roster with negative value and turned them into the reigning Norris trophy winner, my dude. There's only so much a GM can do in one off season, and while I don't really credit Dubas for going out and snagging Karlsson out of the blue (dude forced his way outta SJ and this was the only team willing to move the pieces to acquire him), he still got it done.

He should have abolutely fired Sullivan, but he either saw no need to, or ownership told him it was off the table in his first summer with the team--maybe both.

Like you said, he's signed until 2030. His job is probably to guide the plane down as gently as possible for the remainder of Sid's career, pretending this team's still capable of competing despite not seeing the 2nd round since 2018. *Then* he gets to earn his paycheck with how he handles the tear down and rebuild, imo. Which, I think, he's already gonna start several steps back by handing Jake some asinine contract with a super restrictive NTC this season/summer.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Letang and Crosby would crush that resurrection asap. Sullivan is their boy.

Malkin was the only player to vaguely call out Sullivan and he's been quiet since.

I'm gonna lol if Sid tanks his legacy over Mike "Night at the Roxbury" Sullivan

 

[Gurglesons]

He removed two albatross contracts from the roster with negative value and turned them into the reigning Norris trophy winner, my dude. There's only so much a GM can do in one off season, and while I don't really credit Dubas for going out and snagging Karlsson out of the blue (dude forced his way outta SJ and this was the only team willing to move the pieces to acquire him), he still got it done.

He should have abolutely fired Sullivan, but he either saw no need to, or ownership told him it was off the table in his first summer with the team--maybe both.

Like you said, he's signed until 2030. His job is probably to guide the plane down as gently as possible for the remainder of Sid's career, pretending this team's still capable of competing despite not seeing the 2nd round since 2018. *Then* he gets to earn his paycheck with how he handles the tear down and rebuild, imo. Which, I think, he's already gonna start several steps back by handing Jake some asinine contract with a super restrictive NTC this season/summer.

You don't pay Dubas the money you are paying him to rebuild this team. The expectation this year based on the contracts and trades made this summer was to contend for the playoffs and (right or wrongly) a cup.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

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Iafallo is one of the top 20 best net front scorers by the metrics last year. He also is a very good defensive presence. The opposite of Smith who is a rush based scorer and mediocre defensively.

Even if they got Iafallo, he wouldn't see top PP time due to Sullivan and Reirden. And that's where he would be most beneficial, imo.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean at the end of the day, the most amazing thing is that this team was supposed to be an "analytics heavy" team, and by whatever metric you use, this team is hot garbage, especially the PP. This is also not some small-sample size at this point. we're over 25% of the way through the season.

So, not feeling super charitable about whatever 80s teen movie plan Kyle Dubas has up his sleeve to save the teen rec center season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Even if they got Iafallo, he wouldn't see top PP time due to Sullivan and Reirden. And that's where he would be most beneficial, imo.

I'd argue he'd be most beneficial providing Malkin a defensive presence even if he wasn't scoring about 40 pts.

That was my argument all this summer. Build out defensive depth in the top six and offensive talent in the bottom six and the Penguins went with the opposite.

My other argument was going lean on goaltending to filter more money into the bottom six. I argued for us to acquire goaltenders like Vej or UPL and sign Ned. I also argued for us to potentially use Gibson or Markstrom as a way to dump cap and acquire a starter on the cheap via trade if we were going to pay big for goaltending.

Dubas basically just build a Hextall roster with different names.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Dubas basically just build a Hextall roster with different names.

And who do you think told Hextall to build his roster that way?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You don't pay Dubas the money you are paying him to rebuild this team. The expectation this year based on the contracts and trades made this summer was to contend for the playoffs and (right or wrongly) a cup.

We all thought this team was gonna hover around a WC spot, even after getting Karlsson. That's pretty much where they're at, as ugly as it's been. They're two points out of a playoff spot with games in hand on teams close to them. Now, if goaltending starts to falter and the power play doesn't pick up, they're probably gonna plummet--but that's fine. Wins and losses are meaningless to a team with zero chance at a Cup anymore, and missing the playoffs by a relatively wide margin is likely the only way this team begrudgingly and tearfully says goodbye to their golden calf Sullivan. So root for 'em to suck, and root for 'em to suck badly.

I think it's pretty obvious that ownership just wants to rock the boat as little as possible and try to scrape together as much revenue as they can before Sid retires and they get like 15 years of real lean attendance and no playoff cash. I don't think they genuinely give a shit about the Cup because, even as non-hockey guys, they know how far away this team is, has been, and will continue to be as the era winds down.

If they were anything like the cold, calculated, results-driven group everybody told us FSG would be, they wouldn't have tripped over themselves running to hand Sullivan a new deal before his current deal was up (after his fourth consecutive 1st round exit). Shit, I keep saying it but if this team managed to not embarrass themselves against two actively tanking teams to end last regular season, and they'd made the playoffs, Hextall might still be the GM today. I got no faith in FSG tbh, everything they've done/refused to do since taking over has been questionable or downright idiotic.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Also, just for the record Reilly Smith is on pace for 44 points.

Another example of a player coming in and playing well early on, then going into the shitter once Sullivan got his hands on him for long enough.

Amazing how many players that applies to. Yet apparently it's not a coaching issue.

 

[wej20]

Is Ryan Graves still growing? He plays like a 6'4" 13 year old who hasn't gotten used to his limbs yet.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Another example of a player coming in and playing well early on, then going into the shitter once Sullivan got his hands on him for long enough.

Amazing how many players that applies to. Yet apparently it's not a coaching issue.

Bit of column A, bit of column B imo. Sullivan's been here three years too long (and counting) but Smith's been a ~50pt guy his entire career when he's been healthy. From the hop, we all expected him to be a lateral move from a healthy Zucker. /shrug

Still would rather see Jake-Sid-Smith and Rakell-Geno-Rust whenever Rakell's back tbh.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I expected the group of faceless venture capital vultures/dorks to completely mismanage the team, just not in this particular way.

 

[Fordy]

This team largely sucks because of contracts and decisions made by Dubas.

Ryan Graves and Reilly Smith ate up nearly half of our cap space this summer prior to the EK65 trade and have been largely huge disappointments.

Also, Dubas is employing Mike Sullivan.

we've been through multiple GMs now that bring in players that start out great and turn to shit the longer they're on this team. smith and karlsson are no different than that long list of guys

also as pointless as it may be to complain about a harkins, his nhl career should be over after he and koppanen were gifted a bounce from the gods like it was both of their birthdays coming in on practically a 2 on 0 and harkins move was to... skate directly behind the net and turn around and face kopp leaving him to chest snipe alone... one of the dumbest offensive plays i've seen and there's been a lot this year

i'm sure puustinen would have thrown 3 pucks in our own net or whatever the argument is, but that play was a goal if he's there

 

[Gurglesons]

we've been through multiple GMs now that bring in players that start out great and turn to shit the longer they're on this team. smith and karlsson are no different than that long list of guys

I don't disagree. But Reilly Smith as a top six foundation which is what he was brought in to be at his age was always going to be a little bit of a Hail Mary.

Not to mention he is more of what we have. Skill player who isn't very physical and lives off the rush.

 

[Fordy]

I don't disagree. But Reilly Smith as a top six foundation which is what he was brought in to be at his age was always going to be a little bit of a Hail Mary.

Not to mention he is more of what we have. Skill player who isn't very physical and lives off the rush.

well the ship seems to have sailed on getting a physical winger

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Is Ryan Graves still growing? He plays like a 6'4" 13 year old who hasn't gotten used to his limbs yet.

Dude really does have a buncha shifts where he's a baby giraffe out there.

 

[Josey Wales]

HMMMMM One poster guaranteed Sullivan would be fired today

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't disagree. But Reilly Smith as a top six foundation which is what he was brought in to be at his age was always going to be a little bit of a Hail Mary.

Not to mention he is more of what we have. Skill player who isn't very physical and lives off the rush.

well the ship seems to have sailed on getting a physical winger

Watching Sullivan's systems neuter physical players has been a thing for nearly 10 years now. I get not wanting to bring in a player that Sullivan is just going to hate, but man, at some point, you have to consider that the system itself just isn't working anymore.

 

[Pancakes]

Watching Sullivan's systems neuter physical players has been a thing for nearly 10 years now. I get not wanting to bring in a player that Sullivan is just going to hate, but man, at some point, you have to consider that the system itself just isn't working anymore.

I wouldn't say his system neuters physical players. We just don't really acquire them historically.

Like Zucker was pretty physical while here. But who in the top six is going to throw a check now? Jake? Rakell? Lol

 

[canadianguy77]

Outside of about 10 shifts this season, do Geno and Smith look like they’re even remotely on the same page? They’re going to get their points, but they don’t look like they’re a good fit. I don’t know how much longer this experiment can go on before they’re out of it completely. We need more than one line.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Until the NHL does away with the instigator (which it 1000% should since the DOPS is a f***ing joke), a legit heavyweight is simply Jack Johnson at forward. A total liability who doesn't even serve the purpose he's supposed to; acting as a deterrent or the assured mutual destruction.

This team could definitely still use a couple guys on the blueline who make the opposition's life hell around the net, and a couple top-9 forwards who can stir shit up and make sure the opponents need some ice packs and ibuprofen after the game though.

Boring, vanilla, lame as shit roster with no real purpose or specialty sprinkled with a few recognizable names. Same as it's been since, well, probably the Isles prison brawl tbh.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bit of column A, bit of column B imo. Sullivan's been here three years too long (and counting) but Smith's been a ~50pt guy his entire career when he's been healthy. From the hop, we all expected him to be a lateral move from a healthy Zucker. /shrug

Still would rather see Jake-Sid-Smith and Rakell-Geno-Rust whenever Rakell's back tbh.

It's not quite that black and white with Smith though. He came in looking like a legit 60+ point guy who impacted the game, but slowly under Sullivan he's turned into a 30 point guy you barely notice.

It's not even just about production. The Smith from Vegas looked more like the Smith we had for the first 10-ish games of the season. This current version of Smith is a shadow of that guy.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Watching Sullivan's systems neuter physical players has been a thing for nearly 10 years now. I get not wanting to bring in a player that Sullivan is just going to hate, but man, at some point, you have to consider that the system itself just isn't working anymore.

It's kind of weird how much Sullivan seems to hate physical players considering how he wants the team to play seems conducive to physicality (ie. aggressive on the puck carrier).

Also, how's this "turn the other cheek" mentality working out for them? The Pens draw the least penalties of any team in the league. It's not like they're drawing a bunch of penalties by being passive when the other team is gooning it up.

 

[Josey Wales]

It's not quite that black and white with Smith though. He came in looking like a legit 60+ point guy who impacted the game, but slowly under Sullivan he's turned into a 30 point guy you barely notice.

It's not even just about production. The Smith from Vegas looked more like the Smith we had for the first 10-ish games of the season. This current version of Smith is a shadow of that guy.

YES The 1st 10 Games he was great & & THEN the Sullivan effect kicked in, Do you people have any shame at all

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's not quite that black and white with Smith though. He came in looking like a legit 60+ point guy who impacted the game, but slowly under Sullivan he's turned into a 30 point guy you barely notice.

It's not even just about production. The Smith from Vegas looked more like the Smith we had for the first 10-ish games of the season. This current version of Smith is a shadow of that guy.

Point being, Smith's been a 50pt guy throughout nearly 800 games in the NHL. This is who he is. He's gonna go through bad stretches like all 50pt guys do. The coaching staff ain't helping, but I don't think he's as good as he looked through the first dozen games, and I don't think he's as bad as he's been through the last dozen. They gotta switch up the lines, but as always, we must kneel in reverence before the GCRust altar.