Post-Game Talk: Another Loser Point.... Habs Down Leafs in OT

[Mess]

Do other major sports change the rules of how the game is played?

If they want to play 5 on 5 until the game is decided, then fine, no points for losing. If teams are tied after a 60 minute hockey game, they don't deserve walking away with nothing by losing in some other type of game that has little in common with what they just competed in.

Notice that when the playoffs start, the loser point ends as does the SO, because the NHL recognizes its flawed.

The loser point is a gimmick to keep the regular season standings artificially closer by awarding points for losing, and its all about attendance and ticket sales as building empty quickly when teams drop out of playoff contention. It has little to do with deciding winner and losers as its principle reason.

Some teams get scored on in the last minute of a game and lose (zero points) and then others lose in the 1st few minutes OT and get a loser point. Seems to imply a goal scored at 58 - 60 minutes counts different then one scored at 61-65 minutes. Teams should never feel good about a loss no matter when it occurs, and a loser point seems to do that.

NHL should really adopt the International scoring system of 3 points for regulation win and 2 for OT/SO and 1 point for losing team. Then you have 3 points consistently always rewarded every game not some 2 point games and some 3 point games by awarding a loser point. But that would defeat the hidden agenda of driving revenue sales and not really Wins and Losses.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Its amazing in today's NHL that Montreal can dominate our Leafs for 14 consecutive wins now.

With Div arch rivals playing 4 times per season that makes his Leafs losing streak extend over 3 1/2 NHL seasons dating back to Jan 2014.

Unless our Leafs get to play and knock the Habs out of the playoffs we will have to wait until next season now to end this streak.

If this losing streak was against Pens or Hawks etc it probably wouldn't be as annoying then against an original 6 arch rival like Montreal.

14 consecutive wins = 28 points in the standings. The Leafs play the Penguins three times in a season and the Hawks only twice.

 

[RealityBytes]

Notice that when the playoffs start, the loser point ends as does the SO, because the NHL recognizes its flawed.

The loser point is a gimmick to keep the regular season standings artificially closer by awarding points for losing, and its all about attendance and ticket sales as building empty quickly when teams drop out of playoff contention. It has little to do with deciding winner and losers as its principle reason.

Some teams get scored on in the last minute of a game and lose (zero points) and then others lose in the 1st few minutes OT and get a loser point. Seems to imply a goal scored at 58 - 60 minutes counts different then one scored at 61-65 minutes. Teams should never feel good about a loss no matter when it occurs, and a loser point seems to do that.

NHL should really adopt the International scoring system of 3 points for regulation win and 2 for OT/SO and 1 point for losing team. Then you have 3 points consistently always rewarded every game not some 2 point games and some 3 point games by awarding a loser point. But that would defeat the hidden agenda of driving revenue sales and not really Wins and Losses.

... and that's what is really all about. The NHL is really just a group of privately owned entertainment franchises out to make money.

 

[WTFMAN99]

"Played as a centre" only matters when there is a FO, otherwise its simply 2F and 1D combination, nothing more and nothing less.

Matthews is tied for 2nd in goals in the NHL, thanks in part to Hyman being attached at his hip all season. Did you see that work on setting up Matthews 2nd goal last night?.

I suppose if Hyman hadn't set up that tying goal Leafs would have lost 2-1 in regulation, and we wouldn't be complaining about who was on the ice in OT, as it would never have happened

Yeah but that ignores all the other mess ups that Hyman made prior. He fumbles a lot of passes and the offense dies on his stick frequently. His skill set is not that of a guy who should be with Matthews. There should be some thought that Matthews has produced 30 goals in spite of Hyman being attached to his hip.

As much as it is nice to see Nylander and Matthews together, OT I probably look at breaking it up.

Matthews-Brown
Nylander-JVR
Kadri-Komarov
Smith-Leivo
Goat-Hyman

Even that 5th group doesn't seem like it would be needed, we should be able to roll 3-4 good pairings in OT.

 

[Warden of the North]

Yeah but that ignores all the other mess ups that Hyman made prior. He fumbles a lot of passes and the offense dies on his stick frequently. His skill set is not that of a guy who should be with Matthews. There should be some thought that Matthews has produced 30 goals in spite of Hyman being attached to his hip.

As much as it is nice to see Nylander and Matthews together, OT I probably look at breaking it up.

Matthews-Brown
Nylander-JVR
Kadri-Komarov
Smith-Leivo
Goat-Hyman

Even that 5th group doesn't seem like it would be needed, we should be able to roll 3-4 good pairings in OT.

What on earth has Smith done to deserve OT more than Hyman?

 

[Gallagbi]

What on earth has Smith done to deserve OT more than Hyman?

He's good at faceoffs.... oh wait.

 

[Gallagbi]

NHL should really adopt the International scoring system of 3 points for regulation win and 2 for OT/SO and 1 point for losing team. Then you have 3 points consistently always rewarded every game not some 2 point games and some 3 point games by awarding a loser point. But that would defeat the hidden agenda of driving revenue sales and not really Wins and Losses.

How much does a 3-point system change the current standings and how competitive it is? Last I saw it didn't have much of a impact, but it was a few years ago.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What on earth has Smith done to deserve OT more than Hyman?

He's good at faceoffs.... oh wait.

I like centres. Unfortunately our depth last night really sucked at the centre position.

Could have also used Komarov as a centre as well.

 

[Mess]

Yeah but that ignores all the other mess ups that Hyman made prior. He fumbles a lot of passes and the offense dies on his stick frequently. His skill set is not that of a guy who should be with Matthews. There should be some thought that Matthews has produced 30 goals in spite of Hyman being attached to his hip.

If Hyman isn't even dressed for this game he doesn't set up Matthews for the tying goal and Leafs potentially lose this game and Matthews has less goals today.

Seems some fans would be happier with that later outcome, by attempting to remove Hyman from the equation. Zach in pressbox, Leafs lose 2-1 and Matthews has 29 goals instead of 30 and no complaining about Hyman for the loss.

Events that happen during the game that don't directly effect the goals for or against are inconsequential in the big picture of winning and losing.

No question Zach is not at Matthews level, but that is likely true for every other Leafs forward also, when painting with a wide stoke brush.

 

[Muston Atthews]

If Hyman isn't even dressed for this game he doesn't set up Matthews for the tying goal and Leafs potentially lose this game and Matthews has less goals today.

Seems some fans would be happier with that later outcome, by attempting to remove Hyman from the equation. Zach in pressbox, Leafs lose 2-1 and Matthews has 29 goals instead of 30 and no complaining about Hyman for the loss.

Events that happen during the game that don't directly effect the goals for or against are inconsequential in the big picture of winning and losing.

No question Zach is not at Matthews level, but that is likely true for every other Leafs forward also, when painting with a wide stoke brush.

I mean if that's the argument you really want to go with

 

[Gallagbi]

If Hyman isn't even dressed for this game he doesn't set up Matthews for the tying goal and Leafs potentially lose this game and Matthews has less goals today.

Seems some fans would be happier with that later outcome, by attempting to remove Hyman from the equation. Zach in pressbox, Leafs lose 2-1 and Matthews has 29 goals instead of 30 and no complaining about Hyman for the loss.

Events that happen during the game that don't directly effect the goals for or against are inconsequential in the big picture of winning and losing.

No question Zach is not at Matthews level, but that is likely true for every other Leafs forward also, when painting with a wide stoke brush.

Who gives the puck away on the PK for the first goal against?

I'm not anti-Hyman, but that's a foolish way to look at it.

 

[WTFMAN99]

If Hyman isn't even dressed for this game he doesn't set up Matthews for the tying goal and Leafs potentially lose this game and Matthews has less goals today.

Seems some fans would be happier with that later outcome, by attempting to remove Hyman from the equation. Zach in pressbox, Leafs lose 2-1 and Matthews has 29 goals instead of 30 and no complaining about Hyman for the loss.

Events that happen during the game that don't directly effect the goals for or against are inconsequential in the big picture of winning and losing.

No question Zach is not at Matthews level, but that is likely true for every other Leafs forward also, when painting with a wide stoke brush.

Key word is potentially...we haven't seen Matthews a whole lot without Hyman.

Last night without Bozak or Marner in the line up, and given how terrible the JVR-Smith-Brown line looked, would you not have been open to seeing a JVR-Matthews-Nylander line at 5v5? I think because of PK, JVR and Matthews got like 1 shift together and Matthews got a goal, a bit lucky on that bounce but christ i'd like to see Hyman off Matthews line for a decent stretch of games. Some games it feels like Hyman is a hindrance, not a help for Matthews.

It's great Hyman got an assist last night, he did throw it on net and Matthews tipped it. Does Matthews score 30 goals without Hyman this year? Yes.

Does Hyman have more then 10-15 points without Matthews this year? Debatable.

 

[Mess]

Key word is potentially...we haven't seen Matthews a whole lot without Hyman.

Last night without Bozak or Marner in the line up, and given how terrible the JVR-Smith-Brown line looked, would you not have been open to seeing a JVR-Matthews-Nylander line at 5v5? I think because of PK, JVR and Matthews got like 1 shift together and Matthews got a goal, a bit lucky on that bounce but christ i'd like to see Hyman off Matthews line for a decent stretch of games. Some games it feels like Hyman is a hindrance, not a help for Matthews.

It's great Hyman got an assist last night, he did throw it on net and Matthews tipped it. Does Matthews score 30 goals without Hyman this year? Yes.

Does Hyman have more then 10-15 points without Matthews this year? Debatable.

Matthews is current favourite to win the Calder with Hyman pinned to his hip, and some fans would still complain that Zach is holding him back should that happen. Matthews is on pace to break the Leafs rookie goals and points mark all-time as well, but something must be wrong with the current set-up that is holding him back.

Hyman has 24 points with Zero PP time. Komarov has 23 points (inc. 3-4-7 PP points) yet for some reason its always Hyman that is the scapegoat for some fans attention relentlessly. Maybe the coach should switch them and put a different forechecker with less ES offense with Auston and see how that works.

OR

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"..

Auston's line scored both goals with everybody else contributing nothing to the loss, but its Matthews linemate that is drawing the most criticism, despite setting up a key goal in the game himself.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I'm continually amazed reading the hot takes of the best coach in the NHL by guys who couldn't coach a girls ringette team

Right. We should just blindly be cheerleaders who support the idea of having Hyman and Komarov getting OT minutes. We continually lose points in OT because of stupid personell decisions. That's on the coach.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You get one point each for a regulation time tie. Then you play gimmicks to get awarded a bonus point.

You don't actually get one point for losing the game. You already had one for getting a tie in regulation.

Utter nonsense.

It's ridiculously more common in all forms of professional sports for the team that wins in ot/extra innings/etc. gets the win, and the team that loses gets the loss. No gimmicks. No sillyness.

That's what's normal.

So if anything was a gimmick in the nhl, it's unquestionably the bonus point given to the losing team.

 

[Budsfan]

 

[Daisy Jane]

Notice that when the playoffs start, the loser point ends as does the SO, because the NHL recognizes its flawed.

The loser point is a gimmick to keep the regular season standings artificially closer by awarding points for losing, and its all about attendance and ticket sales as building empty quickly when teams drop out of playoff contention. It has little to do with deciding winner and losers as its principle reason.

Some teams get scored on in the last minute of a game and lose (zero points) and then others lose in the 1st few minutes OT and get a loser point. Seems to imply a goal scored at 58 - 60 minutes counts different then one scored at 61-65 minutes. Teams should never feel good about a loss no matter when it occurs, and a loser point seems to do that.

NHL should really adopt the International scoring system of 3 points for regulation win and 2 for OT/SO and 1 point for losing team. Then you have 3 points consistently always rewarded every game not some 2 point games and some 3 point games by awarding a loser point. But that would defeat the hidden agenda of driving revenue sales and not really Wins and Losses.

what hidden agenda
that's their JOB. to make people. it's like people forget that.

 

[Morbo]

Matthews is current favourite to win the Calder with Hyman pinned to his hip, and some fans would still complain that Zach is holding him back should that happen. Matthews is on pace to break the Leafs rookie goals and points mark all-time as well, but something must be wrong with the current set-up that is holding him back.

Hyman has 24 points with Zero PP time. Komarov has 23 points (inc. 3-4-7 PP points) yet for some reason its always Hyman that is the scapegoat for some fans attention relentlessly. Maybe the coach should switch them and put a different forechecker with less ES offense with Auston and see how that works.

OR

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"..

Auston's line scored both goals with everybody else contributing nothing to the loss, but its Matthews linemate that is drawing the most criticism, despite setting up a key goal in the game himself.

ain't broke? Hyman has played nearly every shift with a superstar and has...8 goals in 61 games.

8 goals. Playing with Auston Matthews.

It's disgraceful. Enough to make Jonas Hoglund blush.

Just because Matthews is so good he can be a superstar anyway isn't a logical reason to keep putting Hyman with him.

 

[cannucky]

Utter nonsense.

It's ridiculously more common in all forms of professional sports for the team that wins in ot/extra innings/etc. gets the win, and the team that loses gets the loss. No gimmicks. No sillyness.

That's what's normal.

So if anything was a gimmick in the nhl, it's unquestionably the bonus point given to the losing team.

Are you serious ? Were you dropped on your head as a child ? Whats Normal for our sport is if the game is tied after 60 minutes thats it ,neither team earned the win deal with it .Thats how we did it for like 80 years buddy ,the gimmick is the Americanization of our game trying to create a winner where none exhists. First it was 5v5 for 5 minutes then if no winner ok it's a tie , then it was 5v5 then SO , then it was 4v4 then SO , now it's 3v3 then SO .How about next we go to the skaters couldn't get it done so the goalies drop the mitts at center ice winner gets the extra point ? Or we could just go back to how it was done and how it was meant to be .

 

[cannucky]

Daisy I think their job is to make money , making people on video is a whole different industry dear

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Are you serious ? Were you dropped on your head as a child ? Whats Normal for our sport is if the game is tied after 60 minutes thats it ,neither team earned the win deal with it .Thats how we did it for like 80 years buddy ,the gimmick is the Americanization of our game trying to create a winner where none exhists. First it was 5v5 for 5 minutes then if no winner ok it's a tie , then it was 5v5 then SO , then it was 4v4 then SO , now it's 3v3 then SO .How about next we go to the skaters couldn't get it done so the goalies drop the mitts at center ice winner gets the extra point ? Or we could just go back to how it was done and how it was meant to be .

I don't necessarily mind the gimmicky loser point (that I'm not sure any other professional league uses). It does create more parity, which is what the gimmicky loser point set out to do. There are pros and cons.

But awarding the win to the team that wins in ot/extra innings/etc.? That's whats normal. Claiming the losing team "tied"? That's the gimmick.

There's no discussion here. There are no opinions. It's just the way it is. Awarding ot winners the win is normal in all of sports. Giving a "loser" point is what's a gimmick.

 

[The Legend]

Matthews is current favourite to win the Calder with Hyman pinned to his hip, and some fans would still complain that Zach is holding him back should that happen. Matthews is on pace to break the Leafs rookie goals and points mark all-time as well, but something must be wrong with the current set-up that is holding him back.

Hyman has 24 points with Zero PP time. Komarov has 23 points (inc. 3-4-7 PP points) yet for some reason its always Hyman that is the scapegoat for some fans attention relentlessly. Maybe the coach should switch them and put a different forechecker with less ES offense with Auston and see how that works.

OR

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"..

Auston's line scored both goals with everybody else contributing nothing to the loss, but its Matthews linemate that is drawing the most criticism, despite setting up a key goal in the game himself.

This team won't take the next step if Hyman is playing first line minutes. It also won't take the next step if Leo is playing first line minutes.

Both those things can be true.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Daisy I think their job is to make money , making people on video is a whole different industry dear

wait. what? i'm lost.

 

[cannucky]

what hidden agenda
that's their JOB. to make people. it's like people forget that.

I think you might have got ahead of your typing here in your post #595 LOL

 

[egd27]

I don't necessarily mind the gimmicky loser point (that I'm not sure any other professional league uses). It does create more parity, which is what the gimmicky loser point set out to do. There are pros and cons.

But awarding the win to the team that wins in ot/extra innings/etc.? That's whats normal. Claiming the losing team "tied"? That's the gimmick.

There's no discussion here. There are no opinions. It's just the way it is. Awarding ot winners the win is normal in all of sports. Giving a "loser" point is what's a gimmick.

No the gimmick is completely changing the parameters of the game once 60 minutes has expired.

Both teams get a point for playing a 60 minute game to a tied score.

One team gets a bonus point for scoring a pond hockey goal or getting more goals in a breakaway contest.