Another Division Realignment

JianYang

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
17,924
16,415
I was speaking in general terms, not specifically the OP's setup. Geographically, Pittsburgh & Columbus and Florida & Tampa are in the wrong divisions.

The only reasoning I can see with Florida and Tampa is that they are in the division where they get the snowbirds to come to their games. These days, its probably more important to the panthers than the lightning though.
 

48g90a138pts

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
10,388
5,724
So how are the playoff teams decided?

Each top team in a division and 4 wildcards in each conference?

I think this might work.
 

TequilaBay

Registered User
May 30, 2019
108
153
Western Conference

Pacific
Anaheim Ducks
San Jose Sharks
Seattle Sockeyes
Vancouver Canucks

Southwest
Arizona Coyotes
Colorado Avalanche
Los Angeles Kings
Vegas Golden Knights

Northwest
Calgary Flames
Edmonton Oilers
Minnesota Wild
Winnipeg Jets

Central
Chicago Blackhawks
Dallas Stars
Nashville Predators
St. Louis Blues

Eastern Conference

Northeast
Buffalo Sabres
Columbus Blue Jackets
Detroit Red Wings
Ottawa Senators

Appalachian
Carolina Hurricanes
Philadelphia Flyers
Pittsburgh Penguins
Washington Capitals

Metropolitan
Boston Bruins
Montreal Canadiens
New York Rangers
Toronto Maple Leafs

Atlantic
Florida Panthers
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay Lightning

With this setup, you'd have 4 of the biggest hockey markets (all O6 teams as well) in one division.

As for the playoffs, it would be 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5, the same way it was before the current alignment.
 
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Saltcreek

Registered User
Nov 23, 2016
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1,545
Western Conference

Pacific
Anaheim Ducks
San Jose Sharks
Seattle Sockeyes
Vancouver Canucks

Southwest
Arizona Coyotes
Colorado Avalanche
Los Angeles Kings
Vegas Golden Knights

Northwest
Calgary Flames
Edmonton Oilers
Minnesota Wild
Winnipeg Jets

Central
Chicago Blackhawks
Dallas Stars
Nashville Predators
St. Louis Blues

Eastern Conference

Northeast
Buffalo Sabres
Columbus Blue Jackets
Detroit Red Wings
Ottawa Senators

Appalachian
Carolina Hurricanes
Philadelphia Flyers
Pittsburgh Penguins
Washington Capitals

Metropolitan
Boston Bruins
Montreal Canadiens
New York Rangers
Toronto Maple Leafs

Atlantic
Florida Panthers
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay Lightning

With this setup, you'd have 4 of the biggest hockey markets (all O6 teams as well) in one division.

As for the playoffs, it would be 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5, the same way it was before the current alignment.

About zero percent chance of this happening. They are not going to put Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, and Minnesota in the same division.
 
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Porkleaker

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Mar 19, 2017
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Or just put Seattle in the Pacific and Arizona can move the team to a more viable area closer to the their division lol. I'm sure there's a better place than Arizona for a hockey team somewhere in there.
 

MarkovsKnee

Global Moderator
Nov 21, 2007
52,150
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Toronto
It's not going to work, because Toronto, Montreal, Buffalo, Ottawa & Boston pretty much have to be in the same division. Can't imagine NHL splitting Boston - Montreal.

Can't see Buffalo - Montreal - Toronto being split either. And Ottawa wants to be in the same division as Toronto and Montreal.

I don't see NHL doing a major realignment.
 

Sgt Schultz

Registered User
Jun 30, 2019
397
519
Santa Fe, NM
As the OP noted, the NHL is not going to eight x four team divisions. The last realignment stated what they wanted: fewer divisions. The NHL wanted “absolute” divisions, that is the playoffs would consist of the top four teams in each division, the NHLPA wanted more conference-centered playoffs (something like the top two in each division and four wild cards), and the result was what we have now.

In my mind, the Achilles heel of eight divisions is it leads to an increased likelihood that a team that “should not” make the playoffs will. That format works for the NFL because they play only 16 games and they came up with a schedule format that focuses on those divisions.

I was on a business trip last week and played around with something like this while on a flight. I took a different approach: assuming you can’t use the alignment to make travel easy on everybody, how would the pain best be spread out? The NHL’s problem (shared by other sports) is the east-west geographic center in on the eastern side of North America. That means any western conference teams are going to have much more distance when they travel. So what happens if we shift the focus from east and west to north and south?

Mind you, I am NOT advocating it. It was the work of a madman with too much time on his hands. The north-south split creates its own problems. Among them, the Pennsylvania teams are in the south, along with everyone south of them. Obviously, it puts all the Canadian teams in one conference. Travel distance is still not anywhere close to evenly distributed.

Thanks to Word saving unsaved documents, here is what I wound up with. Again, this is not a suggestion, just a different look, and not a great one. Being a Blues fan, the first thing I noticed was the Blues and Black Hawks are not even in the same conference.

North Conference
East Division
Montreal Canadiens
Toronto Maple Leafs
New York Rangers
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Ottawa Senators
Boston Bruins
Buffalo Sabres

West Division
Detroit Red Wings
Chicago Black Hawks
Vancouver Canucks
Seattle
Minnesota Wild
Winnipeg Jets
Edmonton Oilers
Calgary Flames

South Conference
East Division
Pittsburgh Penguins
Philadelphia Flyers
Columbus Blue Jackets
Tampa Bay Lightning
Florida Panthers
Carolina Hurricanes
Washington Capitals
Nashville Predators

West Division
Vegas Golden Knights
Arizona Coyotes
St. Louis Blues
Anaheim Ducks
Colorado Avalanche
San Jose Sharks
Dallas Stars
Los Angeles Kings

The East Divisions look decent (the north being the more geographically compact), but the West Divisions have the same problem. St. Louis and Dallas will log a lot of miles. It is a little better in the North, but not much.

The only solution would be to break the North and South Conferences into a Far North, Mid North, Mid South and Far South and ensure that all the divisions have teams on both coasts. That probably could be done to relatively evenly distribute the travel pain, but it would almost ensure the most travel pain possible to everybody. It is arguably not much better than randomly picking eight teams at a time out of a hat.

Which leads us right back to the current alignment. Amazing what too much time will do to a person.
 

StoneHands

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
6,608
3,674
Or instead of trying to reinvent the wheel we could just put Seattle in the Pacific and slide Arizona into the Central and call it a day. Doing a major overhaul of divisions every few years kills rivalries and just makes things confusing to the non-hardcore fans.

Division winners get the top 2 seeds and then 3-8 are in order of points. Reward teams for winning their division but keep it simple.
 

Sgt Schultz

Registered User
Jun 30, 2019
397
519
Santa Fe, NM
Or instead of trying to reinvent the wheel we could just put Seattle in the Pacific and slide Arizona into the Central and call it a day. Doing a major overhaul of divisions every few years kills rivalries and just makes things confusing to the non-hardcore fans.

Division winners get the top 2 seeds and then 3-8 are in order of points. Reward teams for winning their division but keep it simple.

I agree. The only rivalry hurt by doing what they are doing is the desert rivalry between Arizona and Vegas.....that has not developed yet. I'm even okay with how they determine playoff teams (top 3 in each division and then next best 2) understanding how they got there. I'd rather it be top 2 in each division and then next best 4 or what you proposed, but the league wanted it the way it is and it has not led to any fiascoes yet.
 
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Dr Black

Registered User
Oct 31, 2015
482
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West
1.
Canucks
Flames
Oilers
Seattle
2.
Ducks
Kings
Sharks
Knights
3.
Coyotes
Avs
Stars
Preds
4.
Jets
Hawks
Blues
Wild

East
1.
Leafs
Habs
Sens
Sabres
2.
Panthers
Lightning
Canes
Caps
3.
Wings
Jackets
Pens
Flyers
4.
Rangers
Islanders
Devils
Bruins

I like your allignment the best. Overall, this makes the most sense.

Someone pointed out a conceivable flaw that Seattle may not like being in an all Canadian division. But then no system is 100% perfect for everyone.
 
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majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,633
29,335
West

Northwest
Vancouver Canucks
Calgary Flames
Edmonton Oilers
Winnipeg Jets

Pacific
Seattle
San Jose Sharks
Los Angeles Kings
Anaheim Ducks

Southwest
Vegas Golden Knights
Arizona Coyotes
Colorado Avalanche
Dallas Stars

Central
Minnesota Wild
St. Louis Blues
Chicago Blackhawks
Nashville Predators

East

Northeast
Toronto Maple Leafs
Ottawa Senators
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins

Atlantic
Buffalo Sabres
New York Rangers
New York Islanders
New Jersey Devils

Metropolitan
Detroit Red Wings
Columbus Blue Jackets
Pittsburgh Penguins
Philadelphia Flyers

Southeast
Washington Capitals
Carolina Hurricanes
Tampa Bay Lightning
Florida Panthers

If we're doing 8 divisions, I'd make a few changes.

There shouldn't be any 3 time zone divisions, like you have with the Northwest and Southwest divisions. You're trying to keep Arizona and Vegas together but it's not going to work, I don't think. Vegas should be with the California clubs and Seattle with the NW Canadian clubs. That preserves Vegas' California rivalries and the prospect of a Seattle-Vancouver rivalry, and most importantly keeps the time zones down to 2 maximum.

Seattle
Calgary
Edmonton
Vancouver

Vegas
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim

Arizona
Colorado
Dallas
St. Louis

Winnipeg
Chicago
Nashville
Minnesota

In the East it's workable, but I'd suggest swapping Buffalo and Philadelphia (Philly is closer to NYC than Buffalo, which is more midwestern).

Buffalo
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Detroit

Philadelphia
New York I.
New York R.
New Jersey

other two unchanged.

Another possibility is swapping Buffalo and Boston.

Boston
New York I.
New York R.
New Jersey

Buffalo
Toronto
Ottawa
Montreal
 
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majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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29,335
I like your allignment the best. Overall, this makes the most sense.

Someone pointed out a conceivable flaw that Seattle may not like being in an all Canadian division. But then no system is 100% perfect for everyone.

I don't like the Phoenix - Nashville combo being in the same division. That's almost 1500 miles apart, that's most of the continent.

And I don't think that Seattle will mind being with Canadian teams. The Vancouver connection is a bigger natural rivalry than anything with California, and I'm sure McDavid's Oilers will be far more marketable than Los Angeles and Anaheim.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,633
29,335
Good point. The problem is, if I were to replace Winnipeg with Seattle in the Northwest, and have Vegas take Seattle's place in the Pacific, that would require Arizona sharing a division with St. Louis or Nashville. Phoenix is further apart from both St. Louis and Nashville than Vancouver and Winnipeg are, plus Arizona in the same division as St. Louis or Nashville would be an unnatural rivalry. At least with a Canucks-Flames-Oilers-Jets division, you'd have all the Western Canadian teams all in one division.

Flight times are about the same or lower from Phoenix to St. Louis, compared to the Winnipeg - Vancouver trip. I don't know why, it might just be harder to quickly get flights into Vancouver because of all the mountains.

And the time zone issue is more important than a hundred miles, far more important. You shouldn't expect fans in Winnipeg to stay up for away games that end at midnight. When Columbus and Detroit switched to the Eastern conference, that's what they wanted the most, less late games for fans watching on tv, with less flight time being a secondary desire.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,633
29,335
Unfortunately, the Jets or Wild are probably getting the shaft in most of these scenarios. I expect the Hawks, Blues, and Preds to stay in a division. The rivalries are too strong. I think either the Wild or Jets will get stuck pairing with Arizona, Colorado, and Dallas.

For the West:

SEA/VAN/CGY/EDM

SJ/ANA/VGK/LA

WPG/COL/ARI/DAL

MIN/CHI/STL/NSH

Of course a Blues fan thinks they should have priority to stay in the Central. Nevermind that Winnipeg is closer to Minnesota than St. Louis is, or that St. Louis is closer to all of Dallas, Denver, and Phoenix than Winnipeg is.
 

TequilaBay

Registered User
May 30, 2019
108
153
Or instead of trying to reinvent the wheel we could just put Seattle in the Pacific and slide Arizona into the Central and call it a day. Doing a major overhaul of divisions every few years kills rivalries and just makes things confusing to the non-hardcore fans.

Division winners get the top 2 seeds and then 3-8 are in order of points. Reward teams for winning their division but keep it simple.

I respect your rebuttal, but keep in mind, rivalries in the NHL have been broken up by realignment before. Detroit had huge rivalries with teams such as Chicago, Colorado, and St. Louis back when they were still in the Western Conference, yet the NHL had no problem moving them to the Eastern Conference.
 

StoneHands

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
6,608
3,674
I respect your rebuttal, but keep in mind, rivalries in the NHL have been broken up by realignment before. Detroit had huge rivalries with teams such as Chicago, Colorado, and St. Louis back when they were still in the Western Conference, yet the NHL had no problem moving them to the Eastern Conference.
Yes, that's exactly why I don't want them to do it again. Sometimes things just have to change for one reason or another but in this scenario it doesn't seem like it would cause many problems to just move Arizona to the Central and put Seattle in the Pacific.
 
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Svechhammer

THIS is hockey?
Jun 8, 2017
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Remember when there was a Southeast Division and it was routinely mocked?

Tampa-Washington-Carolina-Florida would be a bloodbath over the short-term future. I'm not sure this league has the stomach to make the best division in hockey be the one called Southeast
 
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sabresfan65

Vegas HAS Hockey!!
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Remember that in October and March-June Phoenix is essentially a Pacific time zone team since they don't do daylight savings time.
 

SotasicA

Registered User
Aug 25, 2014
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The playoff format format would revert back to a 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5 system, the way it was before the current division realignment.
No. Divisional championship would be cool, then conference semis and finals. The way it used to be when a divisional championship meant something.

Re-seed only after the first round.
 

BruinsFan37

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
1,603
1,724
Bit dated (missing Vegas and Seattle - both PST) but still useful for visualizing things:

sp0628-hockeydiv620.jpg


Broadly speaking, the owners like to be in the same timezone as their divisional opponents. Mountain timezone teams get shifted usually since there aren't enough of them.

8-team divisions still work best imho, but if you really wanted to split them use the "----"

Pacific (West)
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Seattle
----
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Vegas

Central (West)
Winnipeg
Minnesota
Chicago
St. Louis
----
Arizona
Colorado
Dallas
Nashville

Southeast (East)
Tampa Bay
Florida
Carolina
Washington
----
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Columbus
Detroit

Northeast (East)
Boston
Montreal
Toronto
Ottawa
----
Buffalo
NY Rangers
NY Islanders
New Jersey

Is how I would do it...
 
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yukoner88

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
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I respect your rebuttal, but keep in mind, rivalries in the NHL have been broken up by realignment before. Detroit had huge rivalries with teams such as Chicago, Colorado, and St. Louis back when they were still in the Western Conference, yet the NHL had no problem moving them to the Eastern Conference.

Detroit was a bit of driving force behind the current alignment though. It was worth it to Detroit to reignite rivalries with Toronto, Montreal, and the other original 6 teams in the east and shed the amount of trips to the west coast.
 

Oilers Propagandist

Relax junior, it’s just a post.
Aug 27, 2016
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Hey y'all. I'm hoping this thread turns out to be decent, this is my first thread on this site, thought I've give it a shot, so if it doesn't turn out decent, cut me some slack. :)

Anyways, today I wanted to discuss the NHL's plans to redistribute the divisions following Seattle's incorporation into the league. Since Seattle is being incorporated into the Pacific Division, which already has eight teams while the Central Division only has seven, meaning one other Pacific Division needs to switch over in order to solve the issue of imbalance, and that team has already been confirmed to be the Arizona Coyotes. News of this confirmation immediately brought about rumors that this absolutely meant the Arizona Coyotes were relocating to Houston, given the financial struggles the team has already been, and still is, going through, and since moving the team over to Houston would put the team closer to its other Central Division rivals. However, these rumors have possibly been shot down by the Coyotes CEO Ahron Cohen, whom has stated, as I quote, "Any investment in our team must be laser-focused on helping the Coyotes achieve a long-term sustainable arena solution here in Arizona."
With a statement like that coming from the owner of the team, I wouldn't put my money on the Coyotes relocating anytime soon. Sure, it's possible the CEO could eat his own words and the team would relocate to Houston anyways if the team financially has no other choice, but don't hold your breath on it.

So this brings me to the main point of the thread. If the Arizona Coyotes are going to be realigned into the Central Division, and if they're staying in Arizona, travel costs can become an absolute nightmare, not only that, but all of its division rivals, with the exceptions being the Colorado Avalanche and Dallas Stars, would be unnatural rivals well over 1500 miles away. Teams such as Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, and Nashville would be in the same division as Arizona, while teams in Arizona's backyard such as San Jose, Anaheim, LA, and Vegas won't be. The desert rivalry between the Yotes and Knights? Gone. A shame too, I truly believe an own-the-desert rivalry between Arizona and Vegas would be great for both teams, and I think it could give the Yotes a boost in attendance as well.
But this division issue goes beyond just Arizona though. The two teams in Florida are arbitrarily grouped within the Atlantic Division, with teams way up north such as Boston and Montreal, instead of the Metro Division with teams far closer such as Carolina and Washington. The division alignment in the NHL is pretty sloppy, although to it's credit, it's nowhere near as bad as the NFL, but that's no excuse.

Now, I don't expect the NHL to at all take my advice on the following material, which I'm mostly just doing for fun. I do have my concerns with how the divisions are aligned, but I don't expect this thread to change anything at the higher level, this thread is mainly for a fun, but still intellectual, discussion topic. I would like to know how you personally would realign the divisions if you would like to let me know in the comments down below, but for now, I'll give how I'd do it.

Now, the way I'd do it.
Instead of having 4 divisions with 8 teams each, there'd be 8 divisions with 4 teams each. The conferences would stay the same, all the teams in either the Western or Eastern Conference would stay put.
In the regular season, any specific team would meet its three division rival 6 times, which adds up to 18 games. They would meet the twelve teams in the same conference but not the same division 3 times, which adds up to 36 games, 18 + 36 gives you 54 games. They would meet the sixteen teams in the opposite conference 2 times, which adds up to 32 games. 54 + 32 gives you 86, so it would be an 86 game schedule.
The playoff format format would revert back to a 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5 system, the way it was before the current division realignment.

Here's what the divisions would look like;

West

Northwest
Vancouver Canucks
Calgary Flames
Edmonton Oilers
Winnipeg Jets

Pacific
Seattle
San Jose Sharks
Los Angeles Kings
Anaheim Ducks

Southwest
Vegas Golden Knights
Arizona Coyotes
Colorado Avalanche
Dallas Stars

Central
Minnesota Wild
St. Louis Blues
Chicago Blackhawks
Nashville Predators

East

Northeast
Toronto Maple Leafs
Ottawa Senators
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins

Atlantic
Buffalo Sabres
New York Rangers
New York Islanders
New Jersey Devils

Metropolitan
Detroit Red Wings
Columbus Blue Jackets
Pittsburgh Penguins
Philadelphia Flyers

Southeast
Washington Capitals
Carolina Hurricanes
Tampa Bay Lightning
Florida Panthers
No, I like the oilers playing the other pacific division teams. Less 6pm starts is nice, and more 7 and 8pm MT starts. Vancouver and Seattle is a match made in heaven as well. Jets do not belong in there.
 

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