Another breakaway goal!

[truck]

I do. I see a guy who has been on a pretty steep improvement curve for the past 2.5 seasons. There is no reason to expect that that improvement curve is going to just stop or regress. Especially when you consider the guy has has a career renaissance of sorts. I guess we will see.

None of that is really relevant to him being better than a 3rd pairing D man right now. I'd honestly rather see Pardy in the lineup if the aim is to win a game today. Beeny gets an edge if we are looking long term - but only marginally. He is nearing his prime.

 

[truck]

I know it seems hard to believe, but Stu-Trouba was actually a reasonably effective pairing last season, especially when you consider they weren't being sheltered. Granted, that was mostly on the back of Trouba. I know everyone pines for "rookie year Trouba", but I actually think last season is the one he should look to replicate.

I agree.

Rookie Trouba flashed a lot of good, but the net result wasn't all that impressive outside of the counting stats.

Trouba was far superior last year. He took on tougher assignments and beat them with Stu as his partner. Not even prime Chara was able to do this.

 

[scelaton]

None of that is really relevant to him being better than a 3rd pairing D man right now. I'd honestly rather see Pardy in the lineup if the aim is to win a game today. Beeny gets an edge if we are looking long term - but only marginally. He is nearing his prime.

It's misleading to use grouped age data to make a pronouncement on someone who has played not much more than half an NHL season of games and has been on an upward trajectory. There is just too much variability.
Of all the Jets' current D, Trouba and Chiarot are the ones who are least likely to be at their prime, IMO. The two have different ceilings, obviously, but I would be giving them every opportunity to flourish with the right partners.
Buff-Chiarot
Enstrom-Trouba

 

[truck]

It's misleading to use grouped age data to make a pronouncement on someone who has played not much more than half an NHL season of games and has been on an upward trajectory. There is just too much variability.
Of all the Jets' current D, Trouba and Chiarot are the ones who are least likely to be at their prime, IMO. The two have different ceilings, obviously, but I would be giving them every opportunity to flourish with the right partners.
Buff-Chiarot
Enstrom-Trouba

Where did I use grouped age data? I also said nearing.

I don't hate those proposed pairings, Stu - Myers sounds like a nightmare though.

 

[scelaton]

Where did I use grouped age data?

My apologies if I misunderstood...but when you said Chiarot was reaching his prime, I assumed you meant that based on age.
I've seen a number of charts/graphs grouping NHL players by age and relating that to productivity. While I understand it makes sense as a general rule, it's pretty crude as applied to an individual player like Chiarot.

 

[scelaton]

Where did I use grouped age data? I also said nearing.

I don't hate those proposed pairings, Stu - Myers sounds like a nightmare though.

Yeah, Myers is an enigma. He looks just great to my eyes most of the time, but his numbers...aren't. But even if you are not a Myers guy, he'd be sheltered on the third pairing and Stu would be less likely to mess up the development of a more mature offensive D.

 

[truck]

My apologies if I misunderstood...but when you said Chiarot was reaching his prime, I assumed you meant that based on age.
I've seen a number of charts/graphs grouping NHL players by age and relating that to productivity. While I understand it makes sense as a general rule, it's pretty crude as applied to an individual player like Chiarot.

Why would Byenny be immune to a normal aging curve.

Not trying for 4 years doesn't extend these things. Obviously, he also MIGHT have more room for growth, but his body will age just like everyone else's.

 

[Jet]

None of that is really relevant to him being better than a 3rd pairing D man right now. I'd honestly rather see Pardy in the lineup if the aim is to win a game today. Beeny gets an edge if we are looking long term - but only marginally. He is nearing his prime.

You can't apply the 'prime' moniker with the same brush as someone who has been an NHL defenseman since he was, say 20. Experience means a lot.

I am not going to argue this too vehemently as neither you or I really know what Ben Chiarot is going to become. What I will say is I've had faith in Ben, knowing his story, all along -- when people were saying he was nothing more than an average minor leaguer. When people said he was a tweener. When people were saying he was a bottom pair at best. He has never failed to live up to my hopes for him so I am going to keep hoping.

 

[truck]

You can't apply the 'prime' moniker with the same brush as someone who has been an NHL defenseman since he was, say 20. Experience means a lot.

Someone's physical prime has zero to do with experience. The idea that it does really doesn't make sense.

 

[mcpw]

Someone's physical prime has zero to do with experience. The idea that it does really doesn't make sense.

And the physical prime isn't necessarily the same timespan as the overall hockey skill prime.

 

[truck]

And the physical prime isn't necessarily the same timespan as the overall hockey skill prime.

Not necessarily. It can have an impact though.

Regardless, I don't see how Chiarot not trying for 4 years, then trying makes him a special case. He improved at the same age range that many players do.

His skating is probably the biggest reason. He has improved by a mile. He used to plod like an AHL version of Stu. He has never shown much in the way of passing or offense. I'd love to see it, but I am not confident that it is coming.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Someone's physical prime has zero to do with experience. The idea that it does really doesn't make sense.

Who said it did? I didn't see that. A playing peak will come with a combination of things, physical, mental and situational.