Prospect Info: Annual Detroit Red Wings Prospect Poll! #3!!!!!

[jaster]

i'm surprised how high Berggren still is in these things even after the Wings didn't give him a single NHL game last year and even seem fairly likely to send him back to the AHL again to start this one

I probably wouldn't have him in my top 5 at this point let alone at 3rd

although he was also never top 3 for me even this time last year to be fair

Yeah, he's a bit overrated 'round these parts. I can see him as a poor man's Nyquist on the 3rd line, and that has value, but Berggren is only a complementary player. If he doesn't bring a certain amount of offense, he's going to be an anchor, because he doesn't offer much else. He'll provide value on the PP, but where he'll be challenged is offering enough at ES to carve out a regular roster spot. He has big fans though, so I expected him to get an early push in these polls.

 

[jfrank21]

Yeah, or you know...maybe its because he followed up an outstanding season in the SHL with fantastic rookie season in the AHL. Despite his detractors claiming that he would struggle to adjust to the NA game. And maybe if our "future starter" goaltender wasnt looking at going back to junior or the ECHL this coming season, he'd be more deserving of a top spot on this list. But that would require him to not get shelled everytime he dips his toes outside of the WHL pond....

 

[norrisnick]

Told you guys that Berggren gave me serious Hudler vibes, and here it is on page 2...

 

[Pavels Dog]

but Berggren is only a complementary player.

He's a complementary player that drives offense though. In the SHL he put up great numbers from basically a 3rd line, without great linemates. His AHL linemates were also nothing special. He could be the ideal linemate to a two-way center like Kasper or a gritty goalscorer like Mazur.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He's a complementary player that drives offense though. In the SHL he put up great numbers from basically a 3rd line, without great linemates. His AHL linemates were also nothing special. He could be the ideal linemate to a two-way center like Kasper or a gritty goalscorer like Mazur.

Or he could exceed expectations and be a legit 1st line scorer. The dude just needs to stay healthy. 2 surgeries (shoulder and back I think) in his d+1 and d+2, and he was ko’d at the prospect tournament last year. He’s had terrible luck.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Or he could exceed expectations and be a legit 1st line scorer. The dude just needs to stay healthy. 2 surgeries (shoulder and back I think) in his d+1 and d+2, and he was ko’d at the prospect tournament last year. He’s had terrible luck.

His expectations have him as a middle 6 forward. The leap you're making to a legit first line forward is a bit radical in nature. We really need to see him have even modest success as an NHLer before we entertain the hypothetical you are laying out

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

His expectations have him as a middle 6 forward. The leap you're making to a legit first line forward is a bit radical in nature. We really need to see him have even modest success as an NHLer before we entertain the hypothetical you are laying out

Whose expectations have him as a middle 6 guy? Yours and Jaster's? The fact of the matter is Berggren has been a top scorer in the SHL which is probably the 2nd best league in the world, and the AHL which is either 3rd or 4th depending your view of the KHL.

Me saying he has the POTENTIAL to be a first liner isn't making a leap to saying he WILL BE. My expectation is he works his way up from the 3rd line to a regular top 6 role and his on-ice impact and statistics will reflect that.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Whose expectations have him as a middle 6 guy? Yours and Jaster's? The fact of the matter is Berggren has been a top scorer in the SHL which is probably the 2nd best league in the world, and the AHL which is either 3rd or 4th depending your view of the KHL.

Me saying he has the POTENTIAL to be a first liner isn't making a leap to saying he WILL BE. My expectation is he works his way up from the 3rd line to a regular top 6 role and his on-ice impact and statistics will reflect that.

He's going to fight to make the roster in a third line role. His performance over the last two years has been encouraging, but there are still some obvious concerns with how it will translate against the best players in the world. I don't think saying his expectation is a middle 6 winger is unreasonable, nor do I think it's an uncommonly held belief. @jaster is usually pretty unreliable, but he also apparently shares my opinion, so he must know at least a thing or two because as we know, I am always right...

If you want me to add context to that...

Yes, yes, I know Corey Pronman sucks and his opinions are terrible. That doesn't change that a commonly held projection for Berggren since the day he was drafted is that of a middle of the lineup player. He's got really strong offensive instincts in an undersized and likely overmatched frame. Could everything go right and you end up with a first liner? Yeah of course anything is possible. But is it realistic? Probably not. He's probably a true middle six winger that can offer quality offensive depth but never becomes impactful enough to warrant a locked in top 6 position with the team. I do view "possible legit first line production" as a substantial leap.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah, he's a bit overrated 'round these parts. I can see him as a poor man's Nyquist on the 3rd line, and that has value, but Berggren is only a complementary player. If he doesn't bring a certain amount of offense, he's going to be an anchor, because he doesn't offer much else. He'll provide value on the PP, but where he'll be challenged is offering enough at ES to carve out a regular roster spot. He has big fans though, so I expected him to get an early push in these polls.

Nyquist is probably a likely outcome, but I don't know what his ceiling is.

He played in GR 1 year earlier than Nyquist, and had a heck of a season. Had a heck of a season in the SHL prior to that. Pretty clear he is + in the skating and skill department (IMO).

Hard to say what his ceiling is til we see him play in the NHL, but pretty easy to see why he has appeal.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He's going to fight to make the roster in a third line role. His performance over the last two years has been encouraging, but there are still some obvious concerns with how it will translate against the best players in the world. I don't think saying his expectation is a middle 6 winger is unreasonable, nor do I think it's an uncommonly held belief. @jaster is usually pretty unreliable, but he also apparently shares my opinion, so he must know at least a thing or two because as we know, I am always right...

If you want me to add context to that...

View attachment 579509

Yes, yes, I know Corey Pronman sucks and his opinions are terrible. That doesn't change that a commonly held projection for Berggren since the day he was drafted is that of a middle of the lineup player. He's got really strong offensive instincts in an undersized and likely overmatched frame. Could everything go right and you end up with a first liner? Yeah of course anything is possible. But is it realistic? Probably not. He's probably a true middle six winger that can offer quality offensive depth but never becomes impactful enough to warrant a locked in top 6 position with the team. I do view "possible legit first line production" as a substantial leap.

Saying he has below average compete is basically saying he's never watched him. Berggren isn't great defensively but the kid skates his ass off, gets in the offensive corners and gets into puck battles. I haven't seen him take many shifts off.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Saying he has below average compete is basically saying he's never watched him. Berggren isn't great defensively but the kid skates his ass off, gets in the offensive corners and gets into puck battles. I haven't seen him take many shifts off.

Ranking "compete" is something that I think is pointless to begin with. It's going to look different for different players. If you watch Berggren to "compete" expecting him to look like Kasper or Seider, you're going to end up disappointed. That doesn't mean he doesn't compete. There's a little chippiness to his game and I don't expect him to cave at the first sign of contact, so I agree, his compete is not at all the problem.

And note, that's not the point of why I shared that screenshot. Berggren is going to have a similar role to Athanasiou, in my opinion. If that isn't your cup of tea of a comparison for obvious reasons, then I'd offer the name Fabbri instead. I want you to go out and tilt the ice and try to create something offensively. And I am going to pray to whatever greater power there is in the event that his line gets hemmed into the defensive zone.

 

[Frk It]

Ranking "compete" is something that I think is pointless to begin with. It's going to look different for different players.

Way to reveal yourself, Anthony Mantha

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Berggren is going to have a similar role to Athanasiou, in my opinion. If that isn't your cup of tea of a comparison for obvious reasons, then I'd offer the name Fabbri instead. I want you to go out and tilt the ice and try to create something offensively. And I am going to pray to whatever greater power there is in the event that his line gets hemmed into the defensive zone.

 

[jaster]

He's a complementary player that drives offense though. In the SHL he put up great numbers from basically a 3rd line, without great linemates. His AHL linemates were also nothing special. He could be the ideal linemate to a two-way center like Kasper or a gritty goalscorer like Mazur.

I don't project him to drive as much offense at the NHL level though. Sure, at lower levels his skill plays up. He's a good skater with offensive IQ, but he's not exactly a burner, and he doesn't have size. That will catch up to him a bit in the NHL.

Or he could exceed expectations and be a legit 1st line scorer.

Sure, and Donovan Sebrango could become a #2 defenseman. Anything is possible

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Also ask yourself this if you find yourself agreeing with @jaster the master disaster: "Have I become the villain?"

 

[jaster]

Whose expectations have him as a middle 6 guy? Yours and Jaster's?

Yep, we're the only two in the hockey world

The fact of the matter is Berggren has been a top scorer in the SHL which is probably the 2nd best league in the world, and the AHL which is either 3rd or 4th depending your view of the KHL.

There are lots of guys in hockey history who have had wild success at lower levels and then it doesn't translate to the NHL. I mean, that's the point of scouting, to try to project these guys. He's not being scouted any longer, but Wings management obviously has internal discussions about when to bring him up, what role to put him in, and forecasting his future success. And I suspect they go on the actual scouting report they have on him more than just point totals in the SHL and AHL.

@jaster is usually pretty unreliable

 

[jaster]

Nyquist is probably a likely outcome, but I don't know what his ceiling is.

He played in GR 1 year earlier than Nyquist, and had a heck of a season. Had a heck of a season in the SHL prior to that. Pretty clear he is + in the skating and skill department (IMO).

Hard to say what his ceiling is til we see him play in the NHL, but pretty easy to see why he has appeal.

To me, his ceiling is Nyquist. And that's nothing to sneeze at. That would be a very successful player for 33rd overall. I'll be thrilled if Berggren turns into a 50-55 point player. That would be one of the better 2nd-liners in the league, at least offensively. That's his ceiling to me, based on watching him (including in person), his physical attributes, and his offensive success at lower levels.

 

[jaster]

Also ask yourself this if you find yourself agreeing with @jaster the master disaster: "Have I become the villain?"

I'm just over here being the forum's heel

 

[Frk It]

To me, his ceiling is Nyquist. And that's nothing to sneeze at. That would be a very successful player for 33rd overall. I'll be thrilled if Berggren turns into a 50-55 point player. That would be one of the better 2nd-liners in the league, at least offensively. That's his ceiling to me, based on watching him (including in person), his physical attributes, and his offensive success at lower levels.

I would be curious to see if there are players with comparable +2 and +3 seasons to him from Sweden to get a benchmark.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I would be curious to see if there are players with comparable +2 and +3 seasons to him from Sweden to get a benchmark.

There aren't many. Viktor Arvidsson probably still is the best comparable in terms of similar age player doing similar things.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He looks impressive.

 

[Henkka]

Albert... to Anton... to Albert... Anton shoots !! HE SCORES! (with Ken Daniels voice)

 

[NikMo53]

Berggren