Line Combos: Analysis of the New Lines

[14ari13]

The lines do matter. You can't just put players together and think they will work.

 

[obey86]

I'm sure i'm in the minority here but I think we should break up the kid line. Give those those guys some experienced players to play with and give the older guys some actual energy (could be infectious) on their lines.

I'd like to see something like:

Jurco - Datsyuk - Nyquist
Franzen - Legwand - Tatar
Helm - Sheahan - Alfredsson
Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader

And i'm not the biggest Legwand fan but get him the **** off the 4th line. Sheahan has been tentative this series and is losing every puck battle.

 

[CanadaIsIrrelevant]

Per @AnsarKhanMLive
Lines:
Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Abdelkader,
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco,
Franzen-Helm-Nyquist,
Miller/Andersson-Glendening-Legwand.

Per @AnsarKhanMLive
Defense pairs:
Ouellet-Smith,
DeKeyser-Quincey,
Lashoff-Kindl.

 

[Hendricks433]

Per @AnsarKhanMLive
Lines:
Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Abdelkader,
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco,
Franzen-Helm-Nyquist,
Miller/Andersson-Glendening-Legwand.

Per @AnsarKhanMLive
Defense pairs:
Ouellet-Smith,
DeKeyser-Quincey,
Lashoff-Kindl.

That's worse case scenario with kronwall down. I sure hope he plays and Kindl is scratched.

 

[Frk It]

That's worse case scenario with kronwall down. I sure hope he plays and Kindl is scratched.

Kronwall got the day off because his wife is in labor. He's not hurt, have to figure there's a really good chance he's playing next game. I wouldn't worry.

 

[Crymson]

The reason I've experienced such anger over this issue is my natural inability to suffer blatant ineptitude. Babcock is a great coach, yes. That doesn't change the fact that his lines were a thing of stupidity that he stuck with long after their ineffectiveness became evident.

Per @AnsarKhanMLive
Lines:
Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Abdelkader,
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco,
Franzen-Helm-Nyquist,
Miller/Andersson-Glendening-Legwand.

Per @AnsarKhanMLive
Defense pairs:
Ouellet-Smith,
DeKeyser-Quincey,
Lashoff-Kindl.

These are practice lines and don't necessarily have any bearing on reality. Bertuzzi is virtually certain not to play unless Datsyuk is out, and he isn't, and Babcock has blended the lines in practice before without actually using those lines in the subsequent game.

Whatever the case, I pray he doesn't waste Legwand on the 4th line again. That was a disastrous experiment; that line sucked on both offense and defense, and it wasted a 50-point player.

 

[Tonic]

I've always been a big Franzen supporter, but I'm not a fan of him with Pav. People try the NHL 14 sniper + playmaker line combo, which simple doesn't work in real life. What Franzen lacks in speed/effort, Helm certainly provides. I also think Gus and Pav are very smart players and play well together. Abby crashes the net so Pav likes to have him on his line, which I don't mind. Alfie can play with anyone, although I think he's pretty seriously injured right now since he hasn't looked the same for over a month. I'd rather see something like this (which Babs switched to more or less at the end of the game last night):

Gus - Pav - Abby
Mule - Helm - Alfie
Kids
Miller - Glendening - Legwand

 

[Crymson]

I've always been a big Franzen supporter, but I'm not a fan of him with Pav. People try the NHL 14 sniper + playmaker line combo, which simple doesn't work in real life. What Franzen lacks in speed/effort, Helm certainly provides. I also think Gus and Pav are very smart players and play well together. Abby crashes the net so Pav likes to have him on his line, which I don't mind. Alfie can play with anyone, although I think he's pretty seriously injured right now since he hasn't looked the same for over a month. I'd rather see something like this (which Babs switched to more or less at the end of the game last night):

Gus - Pav - Abby
Mule - Helm - Alfie
Kids
Miller - Glendening - Legwand

Legwand seems a better idea to center that second line. Helm is fast, but he's also small, and that has been giving him trouble thus far. Beyond that, Helm has performed very well alongside Miller and Glendening, whereas Legwand has done very poorly with them.

 

[Crymson]

Franzen and Nyquist produced with Legwand. Helm played well with Miller and Glendening. Legwand has been terrible on that 4th line, whereas Helm has looked best in his brief periods with his ex-linemates. Yet they're switched.

Babcock's decision-making has departed from the merely stupid and moved into the outright delusional.

 

[BSHH]

The lines do matter. You can't just put players together and think they will work.

Obviously, Babcock does think it will work (or let's hope he did think so, since he changed his line combinations during the last game). The Red Wings need to score, what the former line combinations simply could not provide.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Thrace]

Franzen and Nyquist produced with Legwand. Helm played well with Miller and Glendening. Legwand has been terrible on that 4th line, whereas Helm has looked best in his brief periods with his ex-linemates. Yet they're switched.

Babcock's decision-making has departed from the merely stupid and moved into the outright delusional.

Absolutely agree. The Mule-Legs-Goose line took this team to the playoffs, it's inexplicable that it was broken up the instant Dats came back and hasn't been put back together since.

 

[ap3x]

Get it that some ppl are annoyed about that "the new lines suck, get back to the old ones"-stuff. Still, it's legit to discuss about it.

That being sad, it's the coach's job to adjust when neccessary. After the loss to Montreal, Babock did that by radically changing the lines. No problem at all, might be that there's still some space left to optimize. Several games later, no mentionable improvement is visible, wheras the old lines seemed to have a good chemistry going on. E.g., many people started to love the kids line, not without any reason.

So, seeing that the new lines didn't bring us the next level of chemistry and producing, rather the opposite, why keep sticking to them? "Experiment's over, let's go back to the lines which worked!", is a reasonable conclusion that i would have expected of Babcock. But it took some time for that recognization. And I kept asking myself, why's that? Nobody knows.

But finally, late in Game 3, Babcock changed the lines again. And even by trying not to be too subjective, I could hardly overlook the energy flushing back into the lines.

And as fast as they came, they're gone again. Giving reasons like that:

Bertuzzi having:

Bob Duff ‏@asktheduffer 3m
[...] a big heavy body."

whereas Jurco having:

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames 1m
[...] speed ...]

just because:

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames 1m
[need of] veteran presence on kid line

So, by throwing in a rather physical player like Bertuzzi, it isn't likely that our guys do the same mistakes - of playing Boston's game - all over again? Wasn't it just with skills such as speed to play our game, trying to give the Bruins a hard time? I'm confused.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

This big body mantra is ****ing rubbish. Having a "big body" for the sake of having a big body is terrible coaching.

 

[Crymson]

But finally, late in Game 3, Babcock changed the lines again. And even by trying not to be too subjective, I could hardly overlook the energy flushing back into the lines.

And as fast as they came, they're gone again.

Yep. Bertuzzi's inclusion is ridiculous, and the 3rd and 4th lines continue to be absurd. Let's go over Babcock's thorough lack of logic here:

1) Legwand has played successfully alongside Franzen and Nyquist;
2) Helm has played successfully alongside Miller and Glendening;
3) Legwand has played very poorly alongside Miller and Glendening since the lines were changed;
4) Helm has performed poorly with everyone since the lines were changed;
5) Neither Nyquist nor Franzen has any appreciable experience playing on a line with Helm;
6) Both Nyquist and Franzen have spent plenty of time playing on a line with Legwand;
7) The team is having trouble scoring, and Legwand is a proven producer whereas Helm is not.

All of this somehow sums in Babcock's head to decide him upon playing Helm with Nyquist and Franzen and Legwand with Miller and Glendening. It's these sorts of unfathomable stupidities from Babcock that make me want to put my fist through a window. What the **** is wrong with the guy? Can anyone explain this logic to me?

And there's more. Zetterberg hasn't played in two months, yet he's on the 1st line with Datsyuk, meaning that Babcock will probably need to curtail the ice time of them both; the presence of Abdelkader is also a minus, as the three of them have never been particularly successful together. Too, Zetterberg's placement means that he will immediately be up against top-flight competition. Furthermore, putting both Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the same line will make the Bruins' matchups exceedingly easy. Finally, Babcock ignores the trios of Nyquist/Zetterberg/Franzen and Nyquist/Zetterberg/Abdelkader, which were the team's most successful in the regular season. The third, incidentally, was Nyquist/Legwand/Franzen. Figures.

I don't get it. I really don't. Will somebody please give me an explanation? Pretty please?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Yep. Bertuzzi's inclusion is ridiculous, and the 3rd and 4th lines continue to be absurd. Let's go over Babcock's thorough lack of logic here:

1) Legwand has played successfully alongside Helm and Nyquist;
2) Helm has played successfully alongside Miller and Glendening;
3) Legwand has played very poorly alongside Miller and Glendening since the lines were changed;
4) Helm has performed poorly with everyone since the lines were changed;
5) Neither Nyquist nor Franzen has any appreciable experience playing on a line with Helm;
6) Both Nyquist and Franzen have spent plenty of time playing on a line with Legwand;
7) The team is having trouble scoring, and Legwand is a proven producer whereas Helm is not.

All of this somehow sums in Babcock's head to decide him upon playing Helm with Nyquist and Franzen and Legwand with Miller and Glendening. It's these sorts of unfathomable stupidities from Babcock that make me want to put my fist through a window. What the **** is wrong with the guy? Can anyone explain this logic to me?

And there's more. Zetterberg hasn't played in two months, yet he's on the 1st line with Datsyuk, meaning that Babcock will either need to curtail the ice time of them both or mix up the lines again. Worse, he's there with Abdelkader too; those three have never played particularly well together. Furthermore, putting both Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the same line will make the Bruins' matchups exceedingly easy. Finally, Babcock ignores the trios of Nyquist/Zetterberg/Franzen and Nyquist/Zetterberg/Abdelkader, which were the team's most successful in the regular season. The third, incidentally, was Nyquist/Legwand/Franzen. Figures.

I don't get it. I really don't. Will somebody please give me an explanation?

Having Babs as a coach is such a love hate relationship. I loved him most of the season, but at the beginning of the season and now currently, he makes me want to rip my hair out.

 

[wingfan]

Z-Pav-Legwand
Franzen-Helm-Nyquist
Bert-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Glendening-Abby

Legwand offers more playing with Dats and Z than Abby does, why not try it? I think Abby can be every bit as effective in that 4th line role as Legwand too.

 

[snailderby]

1a: Jurco - Datsyuk - Alfredsson
1b: Franzen - Legwand - Nyquist
3: Zetterberg - Helm - Tatar
4: Abdelkader - Sheahan - Glendening

 

[Crymson]

Franzen - Datsyuk - Legwand
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader
Tatar - Sheahan - Bertuzzi
Miller - Helm - Glendening

Or, if Babcock simply must have Zetterberg on the 1st line with Datsyuk and Abdelkader:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Franzen - Legwand - Nyquist
Tatar - Sheahan - Bertuzzi
Miller - Helm - Glendening

Easy enough.

 

[ap3x]

Let's go over Babcock's thorough lack of logic here:

1) Legwand has played successfully alongside Helm and Nyquist;
2) Helm has played successfully alongside Miller and Glendening;
3) Legwand has played very poorly alongside Miller and Glendening since the lines were changed;
4) Helm has performed poorly with everyone since the lines were changed;
5) Neither Nyquist nor Franzen has any appreciable experience playing on a line with Helm;
6) Both Nyquist and Franzen have spent plenty of time playing on a line with Legwand;
7) The team is having trouble scoring, and Legwand is a proven producer whereas Helm is not.

All of this somehow sums in Babcock's head to decide him upon playing Helm with Nyquist and Franzen and Legwand with Miller and Glendening. [...]

Not the sleightest idea how he jumps into such conclusions... Only sure thing, we're most definitely wasting our time here. But I feel you mate, I feel you...

Not as if we would have taken the 3:0-lead, but consider it at least realistic to be up 2:1, if it wasn't for the changed lines...

 

[SoupNazi]

Franzen - Datsyuk - Legwand
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader
Tatar - Sheahan - Bertuzzi
Miller - Helm - Glendening

Or, if Babcock simply must have Zetterberg on the 1st line with Datsyuk and Abdelkader:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Franzen - Legwand - Nyquist
Tatar - Sheahan - Bertuzzi
Miller - Helm - Glendening

Easy enough.

Why not Franzen with Nyquist and Zetterberg? I seem to recall that working before to some success...

 

[Crymson]

Why not Franzen with Nyquist and Zetterberg? I seem to recall that working before to some success...

That would work also.

Put me in, Holland! I'm ready!

 

[PelagicJoe]

Should we change the lineup on Saturday?

I say Jurco should replace Miller or Bertuzzi.
XO in for one of Kindl & Lashoff.

Or should we tweak the lines?

Thoughts? Discuss.

 

[PureDust]

Zetterberg Datsyuk Nyquist
Jurco Sheahan Tatar
Franzen Legwand Abdelkader
Miller Helm Glendening

Kronwall Smith
Quincy Dekeyser
Lashoff Ouellet

Idk just a shot in the dark with also not knowing about Alfie

 

[PelagicJoe]

Maybe Babcock should start shuffling lines throughout the game like Bowman used to.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Jurco should be back in Saturday. XO should be in for Lashoff and Legwand and Helm should switch places, but we all know it will be the same lineup.


Didn't Babs say Alfie should be ready for Saturday?

Aflredsson-Datsyuk-Legwand
Franzen-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Helm-Glendening

Smith-Kronwall
Quincey-DeKeyser
Ouellet-Kindl