Trust me, Bones will be good. As you can see we still wish we had him for our 3C spot.
You guys stole Ryan Kesler. Nick Bonino is decent but nothing special, pretty poor skater and not dynamic. Luca Sbisa is awful, like one of the worst defencemen in the NHL bad. A lot riding on Jared McCann to make this palatable as a Canucks' fan but not looking good.
Damn Kesler and his no trade lists!
Kind of excited to see Kesler in this situation, happy for him even though our organization takes the shaft yet again. A healthy and happy Kesler playing behind Ryan Getzlaf on a 2nd line is going to be impressive. He played with no heart for us over the last two years or so, but when he's motivated, he's a beast. And no reason he won't be motivated this year.
Congratulations on the fleece job and Kesler wanting to be a Duck.
You guys stole Ryan Kesler. Nick Bonino is decent but nothing special, pretty poor skater and not dynamic. Luca Sbisa is awful, like one of the worst defencemen in the NHL bad. A lot riding on Jared McCann to make this palatable as a Canucks' fan but not looking good.
Damn Kesler and his no trade lists!
Kind of excited to see Kesler in this situation, happy for him even though our organization takes the shaft yet again. A healthy and happy Kesler playing behind Ryan Getzlaf on a 2nd line is going to be impressive. He played with no heart for us over the last two years or so, but when he's motivated, he's a beast. And no reason he won't be motivated this year.
Congratulations on the fleece job and Kesler wanting to be a Duck.
really wish we could have kept Bonino in the 3rd line center role, would have happily given up etem, palmierir, silfverberg, dsp over him. Even at a 2nd/3rd too.
Kesler is definitely an upgrade a huge upgrade and getting them to take Sbisa as part of the package is a sad joke. feel bad for them really. He was our year long scapegoat for a reason.
Given that and we kept the 10th, you got to be pretty happy w/ the trade from our pov.
Give Bonino a chance, and hope your coach can utilize him properly. Boudreau didn't just use him like he was just a top six center. He was more like a tool that Boudreau would use when he needed something to happen. He isn't a dynamic player, so don't expect that. He's a very, very smart player. Think of him a bit like an offensive defenseman version of a forward, in the sense that he's someone who thrives in certain situations, and he may not show his worth as much if you can't use him properly.
Sbisa, well, he's a talented guy. He has all the tools to be a very good defenseman. I just don't think he got instruction manuals to go with those tools. He dumb.
I'm going to be pissed when Vancouver fans boo Kes in his homecoming. That guy bled for us like nobody else, and was probably more emotionally invested in the team than anyone I've ever seen in our uniform.
He's better than Bonino, and I'm excited to see what he can do with consistently good linemates.
You're a bigger person than me. I'd boo him. Guy bailed because he thought you sucked, and he tied your management's hands in doing it.
Tying their hands is entirely his right though due to his NTC, which he earned and which is worth a substantial amount of money in contract negotiations.
Yeah. I didn't say he did something he's not allowed to do.
Give Bonino a chance, and hope your coach can utilize him properly. Boudreau didn't just use him like he was just a top six center. He was more like a tool that Boudreau would use when he needed something to happen. He isn't a dynamic player, so don't expect that. He's a very, very smart player. Think of him a bit like an offensive defenseman version of a forward, in the sense that he's someone who thrives in certain situations, and he may not show his worth as much if you can't use him properly.
Sbisa, well, he's a talented guy. He has all the tools to be a very good defenseman. I just don't think he got instruction manuals to go with those tools. He dumb.
But you did say that you'd boo him, and mentioned that as part of the reason. I don't think excercising a well-earned and paid for right is an understandable reason. Not that I think fans have to be reasonable at all times - I could certainly understand booing him out of pure emotion in combination with the impression of him leaving a ship he apparently believed to be sinking.
Not a great example, and I'm not even sure if it actually was within your rights to actually tell everyone to "**** off", but even if you are, there's obviously a social convention involved. I don't believe there's any social convention about not being allowed to use one's earned and paid for contractual clause. That part alone, to me, absolutely doesn't make it reasonable. The second part, sure, but looking at the first part abstractly, I really don't see it.It's perfectly reasonable to boo. An act is not immune from criticism just because it's within the actor's rights. I am perfectly within my rights to tell everyone I meet today to **** off and die, but I'd expect some pretty strong pushback.
Yeah, I worded that badly, the impression was supposed to go with the sinking ship, as we don't know whether it's even further sinking (yet). But I don't think every time a player asks for a trade he's a dick, not even when the team's starting to do worse. He wasn't holding out or anything, he just asked for it, and didn't even leverage it any further by making it public. I think he could well have been a dick about it, but didn't. I still understand him getting boo'd from an emotional point of view and wouldn't blame anyone for it. But I don't think the rationalizations really connect and paint such a dry picture.It's also more then just an impression that he abandoned a sinking ship. That's literally what he did. I'm glad he's here, he's a great player, but he left like a dick. He's going to be deservedly booed.
Not a great example, and I'm not even sure if it actually was within your rights to actually tell everyone to "**** off", but even if you are, there's obviously a social convention involved.
I don't believe there's any social convention about not being allowed to use one's earned and paid for contractual clause. That part alone, to me, absolutely doesn't make it reasonable. The second part, sure, but looking at the first part abstractly, I really don't see it.
Yeah, I worded that badly, the impression was supposed to go with the sinking ship, as we don't know whether it's even further sinking (yet). But I don't think every time a player asks for a trade he's a dick, not even when the team's starting to do worse. He wasn't holding out or anything, he just asked for it, and didn't even leverage it any further by making it public. I think he could well have been a dick about it, but didn't. I still understand him getting boo'd from an emotional point of view and wouldn't blame anyone for it. But I don't think the rationalizations really connect and paint such a dry picture.
That would be a social convention, but I don't think that mirrors reality all that well. It's more of an idealistic approach that might work for lowest scale professional sports, but hardly the big business that is NHL hockey. Even then, Kesler isn't bound by the good will the fans express by giving money to Kesler's bosses. That's who they bind, if anyone. Kesler's due is towards his bosses, who are responsible to administer the commercialized good will of their fans, and they did so by giving Kesler that specific right instead of more money. If there's anger about him using that right, it would more sensibly directed at the middle man who receives the good will and uses it to get people to do a job for him (so that he can further the good will he receives).That's because you're using a disingenuous framing convention - the four corners of a contract - rather than looking at the action in context. You emphasized the earned nature of the right, but players gain leverage and money through the good will of their team's fans, and by their connection to that team. Fans expect a certain level of loyalty and a certain set of behaviors from players on their team, and it's not a secret. To use your terminology, that sounds like a social convention to me.
Generally true. I just don't think there actually is a social convention here. Which we probably will have to agree to disagree on, since we'll probably not get a study in on that.Socially acceptable behaviors do not perfectly overlap with legally permitted behaviors.
No doubt. I don't believe I'd have taken part in that, as I never disliked Kesler as much as the general hockey public seemed to, but I am no stranger to disliking guys even for less reasonable reasons (with Kesler, there obviously are reasonable ones, looking beyond the way he left Vancouver). Still, this seems more emotionally understandable than reasonably understandable to me.I do. And I think I'm a pretty reasonable guy. Speaking of rationalizations, and being a reasonable guy, I remember a time, not too long ago, when opinion here would not have been so forgiving to this extremely unpopular opposing player. If I think real hard, that would have been just before the rumors of him being a trade target for us kicked off.
That would be a social convention, but I don't think that mirrors reality all that well. It's more of an idealistic approach that might work for lowest scale professional sports, but hardly the big business that is NHL hockey. Even then, Kesler isn't bound by the good will the fans express by giving money to Kesler's bosses. That's who they bind, if anyone. Kesler's due is towards his bosses, who are responsible to administer the commercialized good will of their fans, and they did so by giving Kesler that specific right instead of more money. If there's anger about him using that right, it would more sensibly directed at the middle man who receives the good will and uses it to get people to do a job for him (so that he can further the good will he receives).
Generally true. I just don't think there actually is a social convention here. Which we probably will have to agree to disagree on, since we'll probably not get a study in on that.
No doubt. I don't believe I'd have taken part in that, as I never disliked Kesler as much as the general hockey public seemed to, but I am no stranger to disliking guys even for less reasonable reasons (with Kesler, there obviously are reasonable ones, looking beyond the way he left Vancouver). Still, this seems more emotionally understandable than reasonably understandable to me.
And while it is a fun discussion and one that's certain to further my English skills, it may not really be that important at the end of the day.
Just because Kesler did right by his bosses doesn't mean he did right by his fans.
edit: Also the purpose of a NTC is warped when a player with one asks for a trade. Kesler said he wanted a NTC when he signed that contract because he didn't want to be traded away from the close friends he had on the team.