An Observation about Defensive Play (Not a freakout)

[g3ryder]

I'm not freaking out here, and I think the Sharks should win this in 5, but it's not like the offensively inept Kings have had any trouble scoring this series. So far, it's been 3, 2, 3, and 6 in goals for the Kings. I understand that game 1, the Sharks backed off big time in the 3rd, so the 3 goals by the Kings there is slightly skewed (as well as the empty netter in game 4), but all in all, allowing 14 goals in 4 games doesn't inspire the most confidence.

I'm not gonna put it all on Niemi. In game 4, he let it one softie with the second Williams goal, and even though you could potentially argue he was out of position on the 3rd and 4th goals, I see those as more just unlucky bounces. It's more of a team wide thing that needs to improve.

Going forward, with the Sharks hopefully closing the series out in 5, they have to tighten up a bit defensively. If the offensively challenged Kings can score 14 goals in 4 games, teams like the Hawks or Ducks could pose a potential problem.

Surprisingly this series has been pretty up and down, and not as much of a muck it out series as I would have expected going into it, so that's contributed to the high goal totals, but the Sharks D has to tighten up. Not just Niemi, not just the D-men, but the forwards too. If the Sharks do go on this extended run that we are all hoping for, there's going to be a couple 1-0, or 2-1 games, and the defensive system needs some improvement.

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[Timos Death Stare]

Their D is suspect - we all knew that. Stuart is trash, and at this point Irwin should be in for him. Ultimately the one area where DW failed this year was getting a LD.

Niemi hasn't played great, but this game for example our D was just not there.

 

[g3ryder]

Their D is suspect - we all knew that. Stuart is trash, and at this point Irwin should be in for him. Ultimately the one area where DW failed this year was getting a LD.

Niemi hasn't played great, but this game for example our D was just not there.

I'm with you. With all the goals scored in the first few games, I felt like this just kinda got buried. The Sharks can score, but, like I said, there's gonna be some games where the scoring is going to dry up and the Sharks are gonna have to muck it out. It might even be the upcoming game 5. Adjustments need to be made on that end.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I wouldn't be considered about the goals allowed. The team is intentionally playing a higher-risk game because it's a style that the Kings struggle against immensely. The higher-risk includes a faster pace which includes both more chances for and chances against. And the reason why it is done is because the Kings don't have the horses to keep up with the Sharks in that style.

Defense isn't the issue. Puck play is.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Regardless of how this series and postseason turn out, we need a major overhaul on D this summer. Vlasic, Braun, and Demers stay. Irwin is fine as a 6-7. Boyle and Hannan need to be let go, and Stuart needs to be bought out or traded if possible. We need to make a trade for a good top-4 LHD, and sign a good third pairing D like Tom Gilbert or Mark Fayne.

So yeah, D has been bad. Forwards have been great though.

 

[g3ryder]

I recognize that the D-corps isn't great, but I feel like the whole team could stand to play better defensively. Neutral zone turnovers don't help, but there have also been some lapses on the backcheck, as well as some problems with D-zone positioning by the forwards.

I also recognize the style of play in this series has lent itself to a more wide open game, but 14 goals in 4 games is still a whole lot of goals, regardless of style. If not for the Sharks dominance offensively, things could've turned out differently up to this point.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I recognize that the D-corps isn't great, but I feel like the whole team could stand to play better defensively. Neutral zone turnovers don't help, but there have also been some lapses on the backcheck, as well as some problems with D-zone positioning by the forwards.

I also recognize the style of play in this series has lent itself to a more wide open game, but 14 goals in 4 games is still a whole lot of goals, regardless of style. If not for the Sharks dominance offensively, things could've turned out differently up to this point.

It was 8 goals in 3 games before this one where it just went against them. When the results are what they are, you take the bad with the good. They're up 3-1 going home for game 5 playing this way. I like their chances. They just need to be better with the puck and at four or five of the goals against tonight don't happen.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Everyone should read this: http://sbcpuckstorming.blogspot.ca/2014/04/the-book-on-kings-is-out.html

This is the strategy the Sharks chose to employ in this series.

This is very deliberate by the Sharks.. Tmac is daring Sutter to open up. Sutter wants to slow down and control play, hoping to keep the Sharks shots to 20-25/game. The Sharks are dictating play in this series. We've had 30+
in every game.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Against the Ducks or Stars next round, the Sharks will tighten things up.

The one wild card for Sutter is Gaborik who has shown up. He has the ability to play the fast loose game. The other Kings forwards, meh.

 

[hohosaregood]

Regardless of how this series and postseason turn out, we need a major overhaul on D this summer. Vlasic, Braun, and Demers stay. Irwin is fine as a 6-7. Boyle and Hannan need to be let go, and Stuart needs to be bought out or traded if possible. We need to make a trade for a good top-4 LHD, and sign a good third pairing D like Tom Gilbert or Mark Fayne.

So yeah, D has been bad. Forwards have been great though.

I think the overhaul's started. This gigantic stockpiling of defensive prospect talent's kinda saying it. All the promising defensive prospects we have are supposedly smooth skating defensemen who can move the puck well. Whether or not they become useful at the NHL level is a different matter.

Other than that, seriously need a stop gap like you say.

 

[RickyHP]

Everyone should read this: http://sbcpuckstorming.blogspot.ca/2014/04/the-book-on-kings-is-out.html

This is the strategy the Sharks chose to employ in this series.

This is very deliberate by the Sharks.. Tmac is daring Sutter to open up. Sutter wants to slow down and control play, hoping to keep the Sharks shots to 20-25/game. The Sharks are dictating play in this series. We've had 30+
in every game.

great read

 

[Negatively Positive]

Hindsight is 20/20 but looking at the forward depth now, maybe the Sharks could have packaged Kennedy and a 2nd for a defenseman. Of course at the deadline, the Sharks probably weren't sure if Torres and Hertl will be ready so they didn't wanna trade away forward depth. I'm just really worried because only Tennyson has NHL experience and apparently he wasn't even playing that well. The Worcester guys say Abeltshauser was playing well but he's hurt. God help us if we have to play Doherty or Demelo in a playoff game.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hindsight is 20/20 but looking at the forward depth now, maybe the Sharks could have packaged Kennedy and a 2nd for a defenseman. Of course at the deadline, the Sharks probably weren't sure if Torres and Hertl will be ready so they didn't wanna trade away forward depth. I'm just really worried because only Tennyson has NHL experience and apparently he wasn't even playing that well. The Worcester guys say Abeltshauser was playing well but he's hurt. God help us if we have to play Doherty or Demelo in a playoff game.

They would probably play Mueller before they play Doherty or Demelo.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think the overhaul's started. This gigantic stockpiling of defensive prospect talent's kinda saying it. All the promising defensive prospects we have are supposedly smooth skating defensemen who can move the puck well. Whether or not they become useful at the NHL level is a different matter.

Other than that, seriously need a stop gap like you say.

"Stock-piling"? You mean Mueller? He's one player.

In an ideal world: Stuart is bought out or traded, Hannan and Boyle are let go, Irwin is cemented as the #7 guy. DW makes a trade for a youngish #3-4 defenseman, signs Gilbert/Fayne/Hainsey, and Mueller makes it out of camp.

Vlasic-Braun
Trade-Demers
Mueller-Gilbert
Irwin

What I expect is for Irwin to stay #7, Stuart to be retained, DW to try and make a run at Matt Niskanen and fail, panic and sign Boyle in late July, and sign another crap player like Brooks Orpik.

 

[hohosaregood]

"Stock-piling"? You mean Mueller? He's one player.

In an ideal world: Stuart is bought out or traded, Hannan and Boyle are let go, Irwin is cemented as the #7 guy. DW makes a trade for a youngish #3-4 defenseman, signs Gilbert/Fayne/Hainsey, and Mueller makes it out of camp.

Vlasic-Braun
Trade-Demers
Mueller-Gilbert
Irwin

What I expect is for Irwin to stay #7, Stuart to be retained, DW to try and make a run at Matt Niskanen and fail, panic and sign Boyle in late July, and sign another crap player like Brooks Orpik.

Mueller, Tennyson,Abeltshauser, Acolatse, Brodzinski, Demelo, Joakim Ryan, and Comrie are all generally characterized as smooth skating, good puck movers. Unless you disagree with me and actually consider all of those guys to play the same style as Stuart and Hannan.Whether they become useful at the NHL level is a different story. I didn't say they were premier prospects, just that most of them have shown reasons to be considered promising.

That group is a far cry from being shot-blocking, crease-clearing, big sized defensemen. Hell, the only prospects that are actually like that would be Doherty, Ausmus, and Watson. 3 of 11 of the defense prospects

 

[Led Zappa]

3rd in the conference and 5th in the league in GA and 4th in the league with a +44 GDIFF with a D that is mostly garbage and/or putrid and a Goalie that sucks.

The Sharks truly are a miracle on ice.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Mueller, Tennyson,Abeltshauser, Acolatse, Brodzinski, Demelo, Joakim Ryan, and Comrie are all generally characterized as smooth skating, good puck movers. Unless you disagree with me and actually consider all of those guys to play the same style as Stuart and Hannan.Whether they become useful at the NHL level is a different story. I didn't say they were premier prospects, just that most of them have shown reasons to be considered promising.

That group is a far cry from being shot-blocking, crease-clearing, big sized defensemen. Hell, the only prospects that are actually like that would be Doherty, Ausmus, and Watson. 3 of 11 of the defense prospects

Of those guys, Mueller is the only one we can count on being an NHLer in any capacity. When I think of "stockpiling defense prospects" I think of Buffalo with Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe, etc. I think of Edmonton with Nurse, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Simpson, etc. I think of even Anaheim with Lindholm, Theodore, Vatanen, etc. I don't think of a prospect pool with Mueller and a bunch of huge questionmarks and reaches.

I'm happy that we're moving away from the Doherty, Petrecki, Wishart types of picks. But addressing the D is more than a few late round picks. I care whether they become NHLers.

3rd in the conference and 5th in the league in GA and 4th in the league with a +44 GDIFF with a D that is mostly garbage and/or putrid and a Goalie that sucks.

The Sharks truly are a miracle on ice.

Come off it, LZ. I'm talking about possession and you know it. We have a very low GAA because the forwards spend most of their time in the o-zone, because, well, they're all very good two-way forwards and play an elite possession game, in addition to Vlasic and Braun having two of the best seasons in the entire NHL. Stuart and Hannan are two of the worst defensemen in the NHL. They're hugely carried by their partners, the forwards, and the system.

Imagine if we had actual top-4 defensemen outside of Vlasic and Braun (Demers hasn't played like one this series)? We'd basically be Chicago with elite center depth (their one big weekend). We'd curbstomp everyone. I'm not satisfied with being one of the best, I want the Sharks to be the best. Asking for one more top-4 defenseman and no more Stuart and Hannan isn't too much.

 

[hohosaregood]

Of those guys, Mueller is the only one we can count on being an NHLer in any capacity. When I think of "stockpiling defense prospects" I think of Buffalo with Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe, etc. I think of Edmonton with Nurse, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Simpson, etc. I think of even Anaheim with Lindholm, Theodore, Vatanen, etc. I don't think of a prospect pool with Mueller and a bunch of huge questionmarks and reaches.

I'm happy that we're moving away from the Doherty, Petrecki, Wishart types of picks. But addressing the D is more than a few late round picks. I care whether they become NHLers.

The whole point is that there is some type of overhaul in process and that's what I responded to in your first post about it. Just because it doesn't fit your definition doesn't mean its not happening. It's a stylistic overhaul at the very least, the quality just isn't there yet and I think the main reason for that is because they've been concentrating on drafting what they feel are quality forwards the last 2-3 years.

 

[Boy Hedican]

3rd in the conference and 5th in the league in GA and 4th in the league with a +44 GDIFF with a D that is mostly garbage and/or putrid and a Goalie that sucks.

The Sharks truly are a miracle on ice.

This is all too true. I don't know how we've done it. Props to Larry Robinson and the coaching staff. I know most people wouldn't want to do this, and I doubt the coaches do, but I'd be curious to see Burns back on the blue line next season now that Hertl and Nieto have proven they belong in this line up. Let me go on record and say i LOVE Burns at F, but no one can move a man out of the crease quite like Burns can.

 

[drunksage]

Of those guys, Mueller is the only one we can count on being an NHLer in any capacity. When I think of "stockpiling defense prospects" I think of Buffalo with Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe, etc. I think of Edmonton with Nurse, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Simpson, etc. I think of even Anaheim with Lindholm, Theodore, Vatanen, etc. I don't think of a prospect pool with Mueller and a bunch of huge questionmarks and reaches.

I'm happy that we're moving away from the Doherty, Petrecki, Wishart types of picks. But addressing the D is more than a few late round picks. I care whether they become NHLers.

I'm really curious to hear how you rated the Sharks defenseman prospect pool at the time that Braun and Demers were in it.

 

[Coily]

Our D is bad, and I feel bad.

 

[AstroDan]

3rd in the conference and 5th in the league in GA and 4th in the league with a +44 GDIFF with a D that is mostly garbage and/or putrid and a Goalie that sucks.

The Sharks truly are a miracle on ice.

Yup.
Sorta like St. Louis needed better goaltending

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm really curious to hear how you rated the Sharks defenseman prospect pool at the time that Braun and Demers were in it.

I was always extremely high on Demers and Braun, thanks for asking.

I really like Abeltshauser, and I'm curious about Joakim Ryan, but other than those two I don't care for any of our D prospects other than Mueller.