An honest thought about Scuderi

[madinsomniac]

Scuderi was always a very good supplemental player. He is not an anchor player. playing him with a player who is physical and has skating and passing ability like Despres is so much better than a pylon like Orps last year

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Let´s see what happens when Olli is back. Scuds is much better this year, but Bortuzzo & Despres are still better than him. Someone has to be benched and we still need that cap space. Scuderi is serviceable once again, but please, not in Pittsburgh. His play is tolerable but the context (D depth & capspace) is too strong here for him to stay...

Honestly, the ideal scenario so far. There´s a market for defensemen with some significant injuries around the league. Scuds has redeemed himself a bit and his value might not be that negative now. He´s still our 7th best defenseman, though (at best). JR´s turn now.

Agreed.

Ideal time to ship Scuds out. Pull the trigger JR, Scuds and Johnston have given you the best window you could hope for.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, I've been saying it for a while that Scuds is playing well this year. It does seem logical to move him though. I guess it just depends if the Pens are comfortable possibly trading away two veteran D-Men during the season. The other obviously being Martin if the rumors of them wanting to use him as trade bait are true.

You'd think Scuds has to go by the off-season at the latest. There's just too many kids in the system that can handle the bottom pairing role for much cheaper.

 

[jmelm]

As well as Scuderi is playing, I still think it's going to be difficult to move him, particularly with the cap not expected to go up much (i.e. the floor for weaker teams), and if we don't retain salary.

And if we can't get a good trade for Scuderi this year but we're able to trade Martin, then we should probably keep Scuderi for the playoffs and then hope to trade him after the season. If we can't trade him in the offseason, we may need to consider buying him out or having him in WBS -- whatever is more cost effective.

 

[The Tang]

He's played better about the last five games, I'm not sure why that absolves him, especially for all the games prior he was still completely brutal. Even if he does keep up this level of play it doesn't change the fact he's still the weakest link on the defense and not worth his contract. Even if all you are offered is a 7th you take it because the cap space is worth more than anything he will provide.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

I wouldn't feel comfortable going into the playoffs with Scuderi in the top 6. He has a very limited skill-set that can be exploited easily. I rather Despres and Bort man the 3rd pairing.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

He's played better about the last five games, I'm not sure why that absolves him, especially for all the games prior he was still completely brutal. Even if he does keep up this level of play it doesn't change the fact he's still the weakest link on the defense and not worth his contract. Even if all you are offered is a 7th you take it because the cap space is worth more than anything he will provide.

I would give a 4th round pick for someone to take Scuderi away. I would also give Samuelsson (if he has any trade value).

 

[The Tang]

I would give a 4th round pick for someone to take Scuderi away. I would also give Samuelsson (if he has any trade value).

I'd be OK giving a pick to take him too

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Scuderi is fine as a mentor type for what hopefully will soon be a very young, talented blueline corps.

Yeah he's overpaid, and yeah he has too many years left on his deal. BUT, if we re-sign either Martin or Ehrhoff, they'll eat up even more cap space for even more years than the Scuderi situation. AND, Scuderi is a bottom-pairing guy who can be scratched now and then. Those other guys will hold our top D-men back because they'll play too much.

It probably won't happen, but once Maatta returns I'd scratch Ehrhoff. He's probably been our 7th-best defenseman, overall, so far this season.

 

[cygnus47]

Scuderi is fine as a mentor type for what hopefully will soon be a very young, talented blueline corps.

Yeah he's overpaid, and yeah he has too many years left on his deal. BUT, if we re-sign either Martin or Ehrhoff, they'll eat up even more cap space for even more years than the Scuderi situation. AND, Scuderi is a bottom-pairing guy who can be scratched now and then. Those other guys will hold our top D-men back because they'll play too much.

It probably won't happen, but once Maatta returns I'd scratch Ehrhoff. He's probably been our 7th-best defenseman, overall, so far this season.

Ehrhoff - Despres would kill it. Has Ehrhoff been tried on the right at all this year?

 

[The Tang]

Yeah he's overpaid, and yeah he has too many years left on his deal. BUT, if we re-sign either Martin or Ehrhoff, they'll eat up even more cap space for even more years than the Scuderi situation. AND, Scuderi is a bottom-pairing guy who can be scratched now and then. Those other guys will hold our top D-men back because they'll play too much.

Martin and erhoff are also a lot better than scuderi. Further, if you're paying $3.325mm for a dman he should be better than the 3rd pairing and not being scratched here and there. Unless they're having bad games martin and erhoff won't drop below the second pairing; at best scuderi can be second. There's just no logic to keeping him, especially if it costs you a much better guy

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Martin and erhoff are also a lot better than scuderi. Further, if you're paying $3.325mm for a dman he should be better than the 3rd pairing and not being scratched here and there. Unless they're having bad games martin and erhoff won't drop below the second pairing; at best scuderi can be second. There's just no logic to keeping him, especially if it costs you a much better guy

You can afford Scuderi if you have a lot of younger defensemen who aren't making a lot of money. Those guys are going to get paid, eventually, yes. But that's more reason NOT to re-sign Martin and Ehrhoff.

 

[The Tang]

You can afford Scuderi if you have a lot of younger defensemen who aren't making a lot of money. Those guys are going to get paid, eventually, yes. But that's more reason NOT to re-sign Martin and Ehrhoff.

What reasons are those? make our defense weaker operating under the assumption young players with no NHL experience will be as good or better than those theyre supposed to replace, and keeping a guy that has been your worst defender since his return and eat up valuable cap space needed to address other areas? When you spend to the cap limit and are a legit contender you can't afford to waste money, especially a good chunk on a guy that brings nothing.

No, sorry, this argument makes no sense. There is no positive to keeping scuderi. You can get mentors and veteran leadership for far cheaper. Spending over $3mm on a guy that doesn't help on the ice at all is poor management.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He's been better this year, after being recovered from his injury from last year. I think he is trade-able but the team is being patient, at the deadline when Scuds gives his list of no-way in hell to JR, the team can really maximize the return on him and move forward with the youth revolution.

 

[Tender Rip]

As well as Scuderi is playing, I still think it's going to be difficult to move him, particularly with the cap not expected to go up much (i.e. the floor for weaker teams), and if we don't retain salary.

I don't think it is going to be a problem in the off-season at all if he has a good season/stays at his current course.
He is a 4-6 guy, depending on his partner, and he has a rep as a top penalty killer. His actual salary will be lower than his cap-hit, and his cap hit isn't outrageous to begin with. Several teams with numerous young guys could use his experience.
For this season it could be tough I agree, at least to get anything of value back, and I am sure management will prefer to hang on to him rather than seeing him traded as a pure cap-drop.

And if we can't get a good trade for Scuderi this year but we're able to trade Martin, then we should probably keep Scuderi for the playoffs and then hope to trade him after the season.

Yes. That's where I am also. A Martin trade - and trade deadline dollar wiggling - should create enough room for what we'd like to do in any case. But I would feel better about this if we had given Despres a genuine chance to show himself a top4 guy with Ehrhoff as a result of Maatta's absence. With Scuderi, Bortuzzo, Harrington and Dumoulin I have zero worries about our bottom pairing, and that goes for next year too where we can easily start out the season without Scuds and add a vet if the youngsters look like they need help - which I don't foresee.

 

[Tender Rip]

It probably won't happen, but once Maatta returns I'd scratch Ehrhoff. He's probably been our 7th-best defenseman, overall, so far this season.

Stats disagree with you, violently.

I would have liked to see more from Ehrhoff, but part of the reason we have not is coaching choices. Ehrhoff gets the most defensive zone starts of any of our D-men, and has a higher percentage of his shifts with the bottom 6 forwards than the top6. Additionally he is not anywhere near his usual role on the PP.

I think Ehrhoff has been doing pretty well actually. A gaffe and weak outlet here or there, but with the ES time he sees relatively speaking there's been few mistakes from him. With Martin there is an element of redundancy and I don't like that pairing even if it was reasonably efficient. With Borts he has had to get accustomed to a different style, and Borts - despite bringing that needed physical edge - has definitely been weaker positionally than Martin and Maatta were, which also puts pressure on Ehrhoff.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

TR, I love you man but that's a lot of excuse-making for Ehrhoff. He's supposed to be a difference-maker and he simply has not been since Game 1.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

TR, I love you man but that's a lot of excuse-making for Ehrhoff. He's supposed to be a difference-maker and he simply has not been since Game 1.

Its not excuse making at all, its reality. Erhoff has been solid, not a game breaker but considering how he is used he is more than solid. Your expectations are irrelevant in any fair analysis.

 

[Michael8771*]

TR, I love you man but that's a lot of excuse-making for Ehrhoff. He's supposed to be a difference-maker and he simply has not been since Game 1.

He's been unremarkable albeit effective. I was not behind signing him in the first place and nothing I've seen since would have persuaded me differently. That said he's been a pretty solid player the last six or seven games. Of course the same could be said for Scuderi. I still believe defense is more about discipline, good coaching and basic fundamentals and tools. Ehrhoff is doing a fine job, But so are Despres and Bortz at a fraction of the cost.

 

[MrWilson*]

For a guy that is SO bad, he's got 2 SC under his belt and a LOT of playoff time. Not seeing the Pens trade him to make room for prospects or to add a more skilled veteran. There aren't that many around that would fit this team or offer that much experience.

He's playing well--as well as Scuderi can play--and my guess is that management realizes his trade value is low but his playoff upside is high--aka, he's a veteran playoff leader that steps up in the post season, knows the grind of the playoffs well and is arguably one of the best PK D-men in the league. Scuderi won't give you any flash, but he'll take pucks and sticks to the face and ankles for 2 minutes on the PK in a playoff game to save the series.

Strong PK in the playoffs can't be overstated as the key to getting to and winning the SCF . Why would you trade a guy that does it so well and is a proven SC winner because of it? Given that he's done it for this team before and their big guns have **** the bed a few times in the post season, I think he'll be in a Pens uniform into the post season.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

For a guy that is SO bad, he's got 2 SC under his belt and a LOT of playoff time. Not seeing the Pens trade him to make room for prospects or to add a more skilled veteran. There aren't that many around that would fit this team or offer that much experience.

He's playing well--as well as Scuderi can play--and my guess is that management realizes his trade value is low but his playoff upside is high--aka, he's a veteran playoff leader that steps up in the post season, knows the grind of the playoffs well and is arguably one of the best PK D-men in the league. Scuderi won't give you any flash, but he'll take pucks and sticks to the face and ankles for 2 minutes on the PK in a playoff game to save the series.

Strong PK in the playoffs can't be overstated as the key to getting to and winning the SCF . Why would you trade a guy that does it so well and is a proven SC winner because of it? Given that he's done it for this team before and their big guns have **** the bed a few times in the post season, I think he'll be in a Pens uniform into the post season.

I tend to agree with most of this. I still see Scuderi as our No. 7 when the playoffs roll around, but he can step in at any moment at play a strong/important role if needed.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I can't argue against any of that too vehemently. However, there are much larger holes in the lineup, particularly when we're talking about playoff hockey. The bare-bones top six will hinder the team far worse than the lack of Rob Scuderi in the post season. Despite playing very respectably so far this season, if the opportunity to move him off the roster and free up some space popped up... the team would be foolish not to take it. 3+ million (long term) for a bottom pairing/scratch defenseman on this team is ridiculous.

 

[Shady Machine]

Scuderi is fine as a mentor type for what hopefully will soon be a very young, talented blueline corps.

Yeah he's overpaid, and yeah he has too many years left on his deal. BUT, if we re-sign either Martin or Ehrhoff, they'll eat up even more cap space for even more years than the Scuderi situation. AND, Scuderi is a bottom-pairing guy who can be scratched now and then. Those other guys will hold our top D-men back because they'll play too much.

It probably won't happen, but once Maatta returns I'd scratch Ehrhoff. He's probably been our 7th-best defenseman, overall, so far this season.

Sure he has.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I honestly don't think that's too far off the mark.

Ehrhoff has been pretty disappointing so far. Bordering on "mistake to sign" territory. Even if you factor in that he isn't being used optimally. Lots of season left to go, though.