WarriorofTime
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- Jul 3, 2010
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I dunno man, if every Jets game we heard, "the Winnipeg Jets.... whose 4th line center, as you all know, is an alcoholic...." that would just feel weird and exploitative.
An example of why the league can't sell the sport.
- Thread starter DuckyGirard
- Start date
Accelleratii
Registered User
The NHL has trouble marketing because no one is watching anyway and here's why.
The US is not a good market for hockey. Through a geographical lense, Id argue hockey is not accesible to the bulk of the population like baseball, football and especially basketball are. You go to any urban or suburban neighborhood and there are basketball courts and baseball fields not too far away, and theyre for public use. All you need is a ball, maybe a bat, a few friends and now you have yourself a game. With hockey, you need money. Rinks are uncommon and expensive to use. The winters simply arent cold enough to use ponds safely in the majority of the climates here. Hockey is not accessible for the bulk of us.
When I was a kid, I played sports first and fell in love with them second. And generally speaking, most folks dont have the money required to sidestep the hurdle of a warmer climate to play hockey. The other sports dont have those problems.
So market whatever players all you want. The only way to grow this sport is through community outreach, make the game accessible for people who under normal circumstances have no access to game other than the TV.
I love hockey, I was lucky enough to grow up in a hockey family, but I played all the other sports first and liked sports before my dad made the commitment to get me on the ice.
This is my observation.
The US is not a good market for hockey. Through a geographical lense, Id argue hockey is not accesible to the bulk of the population like baseball, football and especially basketball are. You go to any urban or suburban neighborhood and there are basketball courts and baseball fields not too far away, and theyre for public use. All you need is a ball, maybe a bat, a few friends and now you have yourself a game. With hockey, you need money. Rinks are uncommon and expensive to use. The winters simply arent cold enough to use ponds safely in the majority of the climates here. Hockey is not accessible for the bulk of us.
When I was a kid, I played sports first and fell in love with them second. And generally speaking, most folks dont have the money required to sidestep the hurdle of a warmer climate to play hockey. The other sports dont have those problems.
So market whatever players all you want. The only way to grow this sport is through community outreach, make the game accessible for people who under normal circumstances have no access to game other than the TV.
I love hockey, I was lucky enough to grow up in a hockey family, but I played all the other sports first and liked sports before my dad made the commitment to get me on the ice.
This is my observation.
Fighting is generally accepted by the public moreso than drug/alchohol abuse/addiction
Parents don't, and shouldn't, have a problem with their child getting into a scrum. They should have a problem with drugs and alcohol, which is why this probably wasn't more mainstream
WarriorofTime
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- Jul 3, 2010
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Couple of things...
1) Dunno why necessarily, but North American players have been coached and trained into being as boring and generic as possible with robot-like personalities. Mentality fostered from youth on how to speak with the media, always go back to the same old tired cliches, "all hands on deck, do your job, 4th liner just as important as the highest paid guy" to display in public. NBA, Soccer, MLB and NFL players are allowed to display some sort of swagger and have fun with the media without being demonized, any time a hockey player does even a little bit of that some old white man starts whining about how disrespectful to the game and the team that is.
2) Nature of the game - the very best forwards (the most exciting and easily marketable stars) play only 1/3 of the time. They are not immediately recognizable as they physically look similar in helmet and uniform to the other guys. Most of their time as they are skating back and forth and to the untrained eye don't look all that different from the role players that nobody has heard of, and the moments where they do the things that really make them special happen extremely quickly and require careful attention to fully appreciate. In Basketball, LeBron and Curry are playing 75 % of the time, are very easily recognizable compared to their teammates, have the ball just about every possession and are doing multiple awesome looking things each quarter. In Football, the big star of any team is the Quarterback who gets the ball every play on offense and is always doing things, the only other notable players are the Running Backs and Receivers and the stop, set and start nature makes it very obvious when to pay attention when they get the ball. Baseball players all get their obvious "moment in the sun" when it's their turn to bat. Soccer is a bit like hockey but everything develops slower giving the stars that little extra time (and they play the whole game). It doesn't super lend itself to marketing its stars, which does indeed make it a "depth sport" so to speak. It's certainly easier to sell the star power, though in an era where the Gretzky type is averaging 2.5 points per game.
3) Selling some human interest 'sob' story is all fine and dandy if that's what you want to go with, but that's not what draws people to the game and makes people interested.
1) Dunno why necessarily, but North American players have been coached and trained into being as boring and generic as possible with robot-like personalities. Mentality fostered from youth on how to speak with the media, always go back to the same old tired cliches, "all hands on deck, do your job, 4th liner just as important as the highest paid guy" to display in public. NBA, Soccer, MLB and NFL players are allowed to display some sort of swagger and have fun with the media without being demonized, any time a hockey player does even a little bit of that some old white man starts whining about how disrespectful to the game and the team that is.
2) Nature of the game - the very best forwards (the most exciting and easily marketable stars) play only 1/3 of the time. They are not immediately recognizable as they physically look similar in helmet and uniform to the other guys. Most of their time as they are skating back and forth and to the untrained eye don't look all that different from the role players that nobody has heard of, and the moments where they do the things that really make them special happen extremely quickly and require careful attention to fully appreciate. In Basketball, LeBron and Curry are playing 75 % of the time, are very easily recognizable compared to their teammates, have the ball just about every possession and are doing multiple awesome looking things each quarter. In Football, the big star of any team is the Quarterback who gets the ball every play on offense and is always doing things, the only other notable players are the Running Backs and Receivers and the stop, set and start nature makes it very obvious when to pay attention when they get the ball. Baseball players all get their obvious "moment in the sun" when it's their turn to bat. Soccer is a bit like hockey but everything develops slower giving the stars that little extra time (and they play the whole game). It doesn't super lend itself to marketing its stars, which does indeed make it a "depth sport" so to speak. It's certainly easier to sell the star power, though in an era where the Gretzky type is averaging 2.5 points per game.
3) Selling some human interest 'sob' story is all fine and dandy if that's what you want to go with, but that's not what draws people to the game and makes people interested.
Matty Sundin
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- Jul 18, 2006
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Seriously forgot what team he played for and had to google cause hes been passed around the league a lot.
Clearly you have an axe to grind or don't watch the games. I've watched every minute of McDavids play in both regular season and playoffs and the difference is monumental. His biggest asset is his speed driving to net. Its almost unstoppable unless you take a penalty (if we are following the rules to the letter of the law). I completely understand that nobody wants to watch a game where every time McDavid is on the ice he draws a penalty. So the refs let most of it go which I'm okay with. In the regular season, I would say they let 80% of it go but in the playoffs they changed the formula to letting 1oo% of it go. Every time McDavid would build up any speed he ended up on his butt with no penalty. McDavid was forced to change his game to dump and chase or drive wide of the net. Again makes for suffocating, no skill, boring hockey.
Why does it need to change in the playoffs. If letting them play is the "best game" why can't we let them play in the regular season too. What type of players are teams supposed to get when the rules change like this. Players like McDavid and Mathews are worthless for this type of hockey. If I knew the regular season would be reffed the same way, at least we could trade away McDavid for 3 suffocating plugs. Seems like really fun hockey right.
So during the playoffs, when its at the height of showcasing your product and the greatest potential of people that never seen the game watch, suffocation is what you show. I'm curious to hear what made people start watching hockey. When I was a kid, I actually hated hockey and when the playoffs were on I was so upset that regular TV schedules were being interrupted by stupid hockey. One day I left the TV on and watched the game in the background and I was astonished by the incredible plays this guy named Gretzky was doing on the ice and ever since was hooked. I guarantee you if I were that kid today and the one game that you had the opportunity to gain me as a fan was me watching McDavid being suffocated in the playoffs, I would be no thanks where is my regular TV.
they overmarketed the f*** out of Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane & Towes in the mid 2010's. this the opposite of what you say they've been doing.
The league could always try something that worked in the past: Have McDavid shipped out to LA and send the other worthwhile players to New York. Problem solved.
who f***in cares?
I'd rather have down to earth, personable superstars than toxic pieces of shit like LeBron and Harden.
Are you implying that we need to rig games for these superstars for "exposure" like the NBA does?
Rig the games and suspend the face of the league. The former is how the NBA does it and the latter worked just fine for the NFL.
If weather and accesibility to the sport were the primary issue, soccer would've exploded in the way that people have been predicting for the past 20 years. It hasn't.
The NHL has an insanely entertaining product, but they aren't capitivating. They don't catch the attention of outsiders, and often lose the interest of those involved.
There are a million factors involved, which makes it hard to boil it down to any one thing. I'll say that getting hockey back on ESPN is a huge win and will help.
The NHL has an insanely entertaining product, but they aren't capitivating. They don't catch the attention of outsiders, and often lose the interest of those involved.
There are a million factors involved, which makes it hard to boil it down to any one thing. I'll say that getting hockey back on ESPN is a huge win and will help.
I'm perfectly content that the NHL doesn't need to resort to such desperate tactics.
The Moose is Loose
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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- Apr 29, 2018
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NHL doesn't want personal struggles to outshine bland stuff.
Trevor Daley and Glen Metropolit both came from the same, low end poor area in Toronto. Metro's brother was arrested for armed robbery, or something. Thar could have been him, but he made his own choice.
RNH apparently missed a year of hockey at an important time in development because his father was laid off and they couldn't afford it.
Dalton and Josh Thrower (obviously not NHLers) noth survived a bad car crash I believe it was and their mom and/or father had cancer and battled through it.
If I'm not mistaken, Burmistrov wrote a letter to Datsyuk asking for money so he could play hockey because his family was so poor.
They did do a little highlight on Keith Aulie, but that might just be CBC on how he saved his father from drowning.
Anthony and Chris Stewart's story is interesting and makes you feel good about them making the NHL..
Trevor Daley and Glen Metropolit both came from the same, low end poor area in Toronto. Metro's brother was arrested for armed robbery, or something. Thar could have been him, but he made his own choice.
RNH apparently missed a year of hockey at an important time in development because his father was laid off and they couldn't afford it.
Dalton and Josh Thrower (obviously not NHLers) noth survived a bad car crash I believe it was and their mom and/or father had cancer and battled through it.
If I'm not mistaken, Burmistrov wrote a letter to Datsyuk asking for money so he could play hockey because his family was so poor.
They did do a little highlight on Keith Aulie, but that might just be CBC on how he saved his father from drowning.
Anthony and Chris Stewart's story is interesting and makes you feel good about them making the NHL..
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
They absolutely should. Remember when you couldnt touch 99? It wasnt just about respect for Wayne, the players knew full well that the man was their golden ticket. The bigger the game becomes, the more money there is in the pot for everyone. I really don't like how the NBA runs the league as far as its officiating goes, it's a joke quite frankly, but when you go to work the next day you can hear people talking about Lebron dropping 60 or the Greek freak dominating etc. The league knows they have to give these guys the calls, which opens up the superstars to show their skill because you can't breathe on them. A lot of people at my work are hockey fans but the only time where people get really excited is if a player goes off. A 2 point night for McDavid, OV, Crosby etc is pretty meh.
I'm fine where the NHL is at - why are some so consumed with comparisons to rival leagues (especially the NBA).
I enjoy the fact that a significant number of NHL'ers are modest/even keeled guys who are fan friendly, and not egotistical jerks like we see in rival pro leagues.
I enjoy the fact that a significant number of NHL'ers are modest/even keeled guys who are fan friendly, and not egotistical jerks like we see in rival pro leagues.
If most NHL games were like the Vegas-Colorado series, the NHL would be able to sell this game easily. Alas they are far too focused on false parity and bringing everyone to the lowest common denominator.
All those who've said it's due to the cost and access issues are correct.
Many of you also forget or don't know what it's like to be a "casual" hockey fan. The game is not easy to understand and often looks like complete chaos. I think a lot of people catch it here and there, sit and watch and have no idea what's even going on. I didn't follow hockey until my 20's and I still struggle with every game-play and strategy concept.
Football has that too, but with the game cadence, the nuances of each play can be explained by the announcing team, or the people you're watching with who have a better understanding than you. You can also get that in-depth understanding from playing video games - you get to call your plays, understand the situational nature of what plays are likely to work best, how different players can be exploited in different ways.
You can't do that with hockey because it's constant action. Basketball has the same, but its strategies and concepts are much more obvious because ultimately it's being played at running speed, not ice skating speed.
With video gaming becoming so ubiquitous, it's possible both problems can be "solved". You can have people playing an enjoyable simulation of the game that will pull them in, similar to if they'd played for real, and may help them understand the game better (though I have to say I spent many hours playing NHL on Sega and I don't know how much it helped in that regard). I've thought for a long time that the best marketing the NHL could do is make sure every kid with a Playstation or Xbox has a copy of the top hockey game available to them the moment they plug the machine in for the first time.
Many of you also forget or don't know what it's like to be a "casual" hockey fan. The game is not easy to understand and often looks like complete chaos. I think a lot of people catch it here and there, sit and watch and have no idea what's even going on. I didn't follow hockey until my 20's and I still struggle with every game-play and strategy concept.
Football has that too, but with the game cadence, the nuances of each play can be explained by the announcing team, or the people you're watching with who have a better understanding than you. You can also get that in-depth understanding from playing video games - you get to call your plays, understand the situational nature of what plays are likely to work best, how different players can be exploited in different ways.
You can't do that with hockey because it's constant action. Basketball has the same, but its strategies and concepts are much more obvious because ultimately it's being played at running speed, not ice skating speed.
With video gaming becoming so ubiquitous, it's possible both problems can be "solved". You can have people playing an enjoyable simulation of the game that will pull them in, similar to if they'd played for real, and may help them understand the game better (though I have to say I spent many hours playing NHL on Sega and I don't know how much it helped in that regard). I've thought for a long time that the best marketing the NHL could do is make sure every kid with a Playstation or Xbox has a copy of the top hockey game available to them the moment they plug the machine in for the first time.
sawchuk1971
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2011
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what about pasta during dunkin donuts commercials?
sawchuk1971
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- Jun 16, 2011
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but why 25 years ago, the nhl board of governors hired bettman because a southern expansion in US markets will deliver them a lucrative TV deal?knowing its a fringe sport and not like other american sports..
amateur hockey and the NHL are fringe, niche sports that you need ice to play even though we are seeing a new source of talented players coming from areas in the US where there is no snow...
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Ah yes, just like every regular season game has 20 powerplays.
Players will stop cheating if the rules are enforced. If you don’t enforce the rules players will cheat more.
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
No disrespect to anyone who went through this, and I salute them.
But strictly marketing wise, there are too many stories like this in sports to be any attentiond rawer. So to speak.
Voight
#winning
Probably because MLS is closing the gap between them and the NHL as the #4 professional league in North America.
Hence why a guy like Theo Fleury has rarely been heard of since retirement.
