Post-Game Talk: An Avalanche of Goals buries the Oilers 5-1

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Guys, while recent performances have indeed been abominable, let me rant, here. Three facts. 1. we very often dominate 3v3. 2. Several of our skill players have gone out long-term because of *very* sketchy plays (I would count McDavid, Davidson, Pouliot and Yakupov amongst these, I'm sure I'm missing some). 3. In terms of pure on-paper offensive ability and skill, no team is better than us.

The lesson? This franchise has put together a group of exciting, fast, young skilled players, as it did in 1980-83. These players, when given the space, often dominate (as 3v3 shows). But the NHL is no longer built to accommodate teams like this. The recipe for success is: clog up the neutral zone, stock the lineup with guys with good hands who know how to survive nasty hockey, make sure you get a goalie who really knows how to use those big pads.

The injury time to the Oilers this year is off the charts and continues to worsen. We are not playing particularly dangerously, we are just getting hurt, very often by BS "defensive" plays (on Davidson, Pouliot, McDavid) which only serve to destroy offense in the cheapest way possible. Just think about the kind of league that allows Dion Phaneuf to dangerously run our players without penalty, targeting Klef's head and injuring Pouliot, or which allows a blossoming young defensive talent like Davidson to be put out of commission by a lazy BS neutral zone cross check. When that is how you win hockey games, there can never be a fun, exciting, skilled young team that does well. They will have to "toughen up", trading away young skill for guys who know how to dump and chase, stick their butts out on the forecheck and grind out boring goals. Greeeeeat. //rant over

The Davidson one pisses me off the most. They were already winning, its not like you were stressed and on edge cause you were getting wrecked. It made no sense.

 

[K1984]

They are both at 6M. Lose RNH, you still have McDavid and Drai. Lose Ebs, you have...?

This is my train of thought as well. Also, in a trade scenario I think that the Oilers could probably come away with way more dealing RNH over Eberle.

I never thought that I would be this down on RNH, but wow. This is easily the worst hockey he's played in his career, and it's costing the team wins.

Eberle wasn't great last night, but I think his play was dragged down by RNH to a degree. He was just flat out bad.

 

[MinimaMoralia]

At least RNH is outscoring Crosby.

What a weird year it is for the NHL.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

This is my train of thought as well. Also, in a trade scenario I think that the Oilers could probably come away with way more dealing RNH over Eberle.

I never thought that I would be this down on RNH, but wow. This is easily the worst hockey he's played in his career, and it's costing the team wins.

Eberle wasn't great last night, but I think his play was dragged down by RNH to a degree. He was just flat out bad.

Put Eberle with 2 good two way players and you forget about his defensive struggles as he is covered by his line mates while excelling defensively. Players like Eberle have a good value you just need to use them properly. Something Pouliot and RNH used to help with. This year they are not.

Pouliot - McDavid - Eberle could work.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

At least RNH is outscoring Crosby.

What a weird year it is for the NHL.

The sad part is the large bulk of his points came from Hall dragging him around to start the year and Eberle still being a great scorer.

 

[frag2]

This is my train of thought as well. Also, in a trade scenario I think that the Oilers could probably come away with way more dealing RNH over Eberle.

I never thought that I would be this down on RNH, but wow. This is easily the worst hockey he's played in his career, and it's costing the team wins.

Eberle wasn't great last night, but I think his play was dragged down by RNH to a degree. He was just flat out bad.

The thing with RNH is he never really evolved in my eyes from 2 years. He's the same player he was, but everyone has a read on him. He's timid, easy to handle and can get overwhelmed easily. The biggest surprise to me is his lack of production. His shot is nonexistent [point blank...WIDE!!!]. It's like he's all "meh" about it.

I'm sure he will figure it out-his rookie season showed that he has the skill, even if raw, and smarts to figure things out but will the team have the patience the same way the Nucks had for the Sedins? I dunno. Getting McDavid and having Drai excel and play the way he has may expedite that decision.

Like 123 Kid was the 'kind of there' member of DX, Nuge is the 'kind of there' member of the [previous] Core trio of Hall/Nuge/Ebs

 

[frag2]

The sad part is the large bulk of his points came from Hall dragging him around to start the year and Eberle still being a great scorer.

It's funny when I brought up maybe Nuge+Yak for Crosby, so many *****ed at me for saying that saying Crosby is washed up and they wouldn't even offer Yak for the current Crosby, let alone Nuge as well

 

[guymez]

Most fans could see bad habits creeping back in even during the win streak. There were fortunate to win about half of those games. The fact they were at home didn't help.

Most, if not all the games on this road trip were pretty bad.

I wouldnt say most fans but there were a select few that were willing to recognize that this team was not playing very well.

I was one of those fans...got blasted for it as well.

The reality is that this just isnt a very good team. They lack balance in the top 6 and they lack legit NHL dmen.

Goaltending has been inconsistent IMO but (unlike some posters on here who love patting themselves on the back) I am not willing to proclaim that a goalie isnt very good based on a small sample of games and a leaky defence.

This team, as it is structured with the existing roster, simply isnt good enough. I was convinced of that during the winning streak and I am no less convinced of that now. The mental challenge of convincing a group of losers that they can win is a secondary issue IMO.

Which teams in the Western Conference are they better than?

Calgary...nope.
Arizona...nope.
Anaheim...nope.
Winnipeg...nope.
Colorado...nope.

Vancouver...debatable.


Chiarelli will have to make some major changes before this team will be able to win consistently.

 

[McJadeddog]

I wouldnt say most fans but there were a select few that were willing to recognize that this team was not playing very well.

I was one of those fans...got blasted for it as well.

The reality is that this just isnt a very good team. They lack balance in the top 6 and they lack legit NHL dmen.

Goaltending has been inconsistent IMO but (unlike some posters on here who love patting themselves on the back) I am not willing to proclaim that a goalie isnt very good based on a small sample of games.

This team, as it is structured with the existing roster, simply isnt good enough. I was convinced of that during the winning streak and I am no less convinced of that now.

Chiarelli will have to make some major changes before this team will be able to win consistently.

couldn't agree more... not enough veteran, stable dmen, and too much of the same in the top-9.... i think some time will solve some of it (the dmen part mostly), but the forwards issue is an issue, even when we are completely healthy

however, i actually firmly believe our tending is a LOT better than before.... i will also admit that there is more structure in our overall game than there has been in years, which i think is a by-product of some players getting older and a new coaching staff that the players believe in.... but even with the improved structure, we still don't have enough structure and still don't have enough of the right type of player

lets see how the year plays out and see what chia does in his first off-season after seeing the team for a full season.... he also has a lot of cap coming off this year, and will be able to make some moves due to that

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

The thing with RNH is he never really evolved in my eyes from 2 years. He's the same player he was, but everyone has a read on him. He's timid, easy to handle and can get overwhelmed easily. The biggest surprise to me is his lack of production. His shot is nonexistent [point blank...WIDE!!!]. It's like he's all "meh" about it.

I'm sure he will figure it out-his rookie season showed that he has the skill, even if raw, and smarts to figure things out but will the team have the patience the same way the Nucks had for the Sedins? I dunno. Getting McDavid and having Drai excel and play the way he has may expedite that decision.

Like 123 Kid was the 'kind of there' member of DX, Nuge is the 'kind of there' member of the [previous] Core trio of Hall/Nuge/Ebs

.....I love this...123 kid is exactly who he is...weak sauce delivery........I wonder who is the equivalent of China? Gazdic?

 

[guymez]

couldn't agree more... not enough veteran, stable dmen, and too much of the same in the top-9.... i think some time will solve some of it (the dmen part mostly), but the forwards issue is an issue, even when we are completely healthy

however, i actually firmly believe our tending is a LOT better than before.... i will also admit that there is more structure in our overall game than there has been in years, which i think is a by-product of some players getting older and a new coaching staff that the players believe in.... but even with the improved structure, we still don't have enough structure and still don't have enough of the right type of player

lets see how the year plays out and see what chia does in his first off-season after seeing the team for a full season.... he also has a lot of cap coming off this year, and will be able to make some moves due to that

I agree with this...especially the bolded.

There is a limit to what this group of players can achieve...I think we are there now. With this roster (McDavid included) this is a .500 team at best.
Trying to make players into something they are not just doesnt work long term. Its clearly time to change some of the players.

 

[Replacement*]

RNH is top ten in the league in TOI. I look forward to replacing that with Letestu

Why don't we just wait until healthy and roll three effective lines? RNH Pou Ebs have gotten it done as a one line team in the past. They'll find their form again.

Why wouldn't we be seeing Nuges "form" on a constant basis? Its the range in this players play that's so hard to stomach. Because you know he can do more, can handle the puck and make plays more because you seen him do it. I agree with that part. But the disturbing part on another losing season and with the team most needing it from Nuge in the McDavid absence is that he hasn't been there. We've got essentially a rookie center taking the bull by the horns and willing himself to try to have this team win.

Multiple players elevated to fill the gap aftter the McDavid injury. Nuge has gotten worse.

 

[rboomercat90]

That whole "Norris potential" comment that MacT made shows just how out of touch he was on this player. For some reason he fell in love with the player and lost all objectivity.

Mactavish was so out of touch on Schultz' actual talent because, he himself, played such a big role in recruiting him. That's how he was with a lot of players he brought in. That's how he was with Eakins. Mactavish was so ****ing arrogant and stupid that he couldn't perceive to ever being wrong about anybody. If he liked them then sooner or later they'd start getting it done no matter all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[rboomercat90]

Seriously, two should be enough. Look at the Flames making do with little Johnny hockey, and two good defensemen.
The Oilers have had ten years to come up with a couple of decent d-men and they still have squat. They've had three good d-men since Pronger left. One was afraid to leave his momma's side, one turned out to have only one foot, and the other got run out of town for too much truth telling. Ten years , and nothing. How useless do you have to be to accomplish that?

It was bad enough being an Oilers fan while most of the board was lapping up the tank and crap like OilChange. Its going to be totally unbearable if people start complaining that two of our charity picks are only half decent players. The other two are elite by any definition, but boohoo, we should have tanked earlier so we could have had better charity picks. I know this fan base has had almost all the pride beat out of it, but if there is anything that could still embarrass fans of this team, its talk like that.
Remember two seasons ago I said RNH was David Legwand with slightly better scoring skills.
Man did I get hammered for that unreasonable opinion.

I'm drawing a blank. Who was the Oilers defenseman that was afraid to leave his momma' side?

 

[frag2]

.....I love this...123 kid is exactly who he is...weak sauce delivery........I wonder who is the equivalent of China? Gazdic?

Chyna had more balls than most on the team so kind of tough to find an equivalent.

Also, I couldn't unsee the resemblance Nuge had to Waltman [damn you WWE network] so had to throw out the comparo

Why wouldn't we be seeing Nuges "form" on a constant basis? Its the range in this players play that's so hard to stomach. Because you know he can do more, can handle the puck and make plays more because you seen him do it. I agree with that part. But the disturbing part on another losing season and with the team most needing it from Nuge in the McDavid absence is that he hasn't been there. We've got essentially a rookie center taking the bull by the horns and willing himself to try to have this team win.

Multiple players elevated to fill the gap aftter the McDavid injury. Nuge has gotten worse.

Yep. With Nuge, its like so many feel obligated to give him a longer leash. Hell, even Eberle is starting to outplay him.

I'm drawing a blank. Who was the Oilers defenseman that was afraid to leave his momma' side?

That was Joni Pitkanen I believe

 

[K1984]

Put Eberle with 2 good two way players and you forget about his defensive struggles as he is covered by his line mates while excelling defensively. Players like Eberle have a good value you just need to use them properly. Something Pouliot and RNH used to help with. This year they are not.

Pouliot - McDavid - Eberle could work.

I agree with this completely. Even when Eberle is "off" he still manages to score goals like he has been doing lately. Put him with a centre that can play a consistent good game and he lights it up. Look at his production with RNH last year when RNH was playing strong consistently.

 

[Replacement*]

In only 24GP and 28pts Draisaitl is half way to eclipsing the career high of 56pts for RNH.

Drai is also 28th in league scoring with 28pts while missing 10 games due to the orgs erroneous assignment of him at the start of the year. Drais play in preseason was telling us that next to Hall and McDavid that he was the best player. He's done everything since to solidify the notion.

 

[Soundwave]

I wouldnt say most fans but there were a select few that were willing to recognize that this team was not playing very well.

I was one of those fans...got blasted for it as well.

The reality is that this just isnt a very good team. They lack balance in the top 6 and they lack legit NHL dmen.

Goaltending has been inconsistent IMO but (unlike some posters on here who love patting themselves on the back) I am not willing to proclaim that a goalie isnt very good based on a small sample of games and a leaky defence.

This team, as it is structured with the existing roster, simply isnt good enough. I was convinced of that during the winning streak and I am no less convinced of that now. The mental challenge of convincing a group of losers that they can win is a secondary issue IMO.

Which teams in the Western Conference are they better than?

Calgary...nope.
Arizona...nope.
Anaheim...nope.
Winnipeg...nope.
Colorado...nope.

Vancouver...debatable.


Chiarelli will have to make some major changes before this team will be able to win consistently.

I think they are better than Arizona, Colorado, and equal/better than Calgary with McDavid and Klefbom in the lineup (and one of Yakupov/Pouliot to play with McDavid), *if* they are getting at least .910 goaltending from Nilsson or Talbot. I don't know what Anaheim is doing this year though.

McDavid and Klefbom are huge blows to the team though, we're simply not good enough to weather those kinds of injuries. We're not good enough to be missing our best/2nd best forward and best/2nd best d-man and certainly not both at the same time.

 

[nabob]

The sad part is the large bulk of his points came from Hall dragging him around to start the year and Eberle still being a great scorer.

What a lot of crap. Sorry but Hall was bad at the start of the season he wasn't dragging anyone around. And if you look at Eberle's goals most of them come off of nice work and passes from Nuge.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

What a lot of crap. Sorry but Hall was bad at the start of the season he wasn't dragging anyone around. And if you look at Eberle's goals most of them come off of nice work and passes from Nuge.

Hall was bad for a few games but drove the play on the line and started putting up points.

A lot of Eberles goals were due to his ridiculous shot and good aim.

Even so I think I trust Eberle more defensively than RNH

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

In only 24GP and 28pts Draisaitl is half way to eclipsing the career high of 56pts for RNH.

Drai is also 28th in league scoring with 28pts while missing 10 games due to the orgs erroneous assignment of him at the start of the year. Drais play in preseason was telling us that next to Hall and McDavid that he was the best player. He's done everything since to solidify the notion.

Do you think he plays this good if he was gifted a spot?

 

[nabob]

Hall was bad for a few games but drove the play on the line and started putting up points.

A lot of Eberles goals were due to his ridiculous shot and good aim.

Even so I think I trust Eberle more defensively than RNH

Hall was poor for more than a few games and if you want to ignore to work that Nuge does to get the puck and set up Eberle then fine. But to say that Ebere has ever at any point been a more reliable defensive player the Hopkins is a fallacy. Put Eberle at center against the top WC centers and he gets run out of town in a week.

 

[TheRebuild]

Red Wings just beat the Flames. Sure, it might be petty, but two words come to mind. Suck. It.

 

[Philly85*]

LD looks like he's labouring out there. Like he's run out of gas and the game is catching up to him a bit. Still pretty good though. Everyone knew it was impossible for him to keep up that torrid pace. But it was wonderful to watch and I'm still happy with the growth of the player. Just saying, he's not looking like that dominant player he was 10 games ago. And as a sophomore that's quite alright.

I hope they don't trade anyone this year, take their lumps and make the necessary moves next offseason. Continue to watch progression this season and go through the motions. Maybe some minor tinkering at the deadline but that would be it.

They need to continue to focus heavily on drafting and developing... lots of D and lots of wingers with skill who can crash and bang and play a bit.

 

[psowrc]

LD looks like he's labouring out there. Like he's run out of gas and the game is catching up to him a bit. Still pretty good though. Everyone knew it was impossible for him to keep up that torrid pace. But it was wonderful to watch and I'm still happy with the growth of the player. Just saying, he's not looking like that dominant player he was 10 games ago. And as a sophomore that's quite alright.

I hope they don't trade anyone this year, take their lumps and make the necessary moves next offseason. Continue to watch progression this season and go through the motions. Maybe some minor tinkering at the deadline but that would be it.

They need to continue to focus heavily on drafting and developing... lots of D and lots of wingers with skill who can crash and bang and play a bit.

Nope - take any offer that you can get to blow this crap up. RNH at the deadline. Fayne gone...Ferrence gone...Purcell history...Klinkhammer gone...Yak be gone...all deadweight and no different than Gagner, Hemsky, Horcoff...

Just a start. This team needs to eliminate no less than 8 of the guys on the roster right now if they truly want to move forward. Thankfully Pete has shown he is willing to cull the herd.