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[Lanny MacDonald*]

There will be another league next year. Maybe just in Canada, maybe not. All the league will have to do is top European salaries. If major league hockey goes back to being mickey mouse and the players only get a few hundred thousand, they'll play. The WHA will have a lot less trouble raising money in a few weeks. Cancel the season and it is almost certain next season doesn't start either. That's an opportunity.

If they get the best North American players scattered in ten cities they'll put on a really good product and the money will grow from there. They'll get a TV deal. All this labour dispute can do is wreck the business of NHL hockey. It won't wreck hockey or the business of hockey. That represents a fabulous opportunity for some other billionaires to invest a few million for a chance of knocking off the NHL. If the NHL stays out and the league produces a credible product they will get their money back in spades by selling expansion franchises.

Meanwhile those fat bleeps who tried to foist an unfair deal on them are out $3 billion and many have worthless empty ice palaces on their hands. If they want to risk that, well it's their choice. Are the players willing to kill the goose who lays the golden eggs? Well, it isn't their goose, is it? They are apparently willing to forego their golden eggs to win a fight. Whatever it takes.

Tom

What a dreamer! You really are. Answer these simple questions.

1) Where are the players getting the money to bankroll their new enterprise? It takes a big chunk of coin to run a league, even a 10 team league with 250 players. Where does this capital magically appear from?

2) Why would the players decide to play in this league, where the star players would be getting a couple hundred thousand dollars a season, turning their backs on the multi-millions in the NHL?

3) So the stars decide to play in this new league of yours for a fraction of what they would make in the NHL. What about the other 450 players? Are they just going to idly sit by and watch their bonly chance at making big money fo down the toilet? Are they going to go take jobs at WalMart while the superstars continue to screw them over, playng in their new league?

4) Where are these buildings going to come from? How are the players going to manage to dig up these buildings and draw more than flies to their new little venture?

5) Who is going to come out and watch this "all star extravaganza"? Will the fans embrace hockey that is likely going to be nothing less than the figure skating events put on during the all star break or any "player tour"?

6) How would this get a TV deal? Seriously, if the NHL, steeped in tradition and in 30 major markets across the continent cannot get a TV deal worth a damn, how are the players going to get a TV deal? Don't forget, it is the same players that have caused the down fall of the game that are going to be getting this new TV deal. How is this even remotely realistic?

7) These billionaires you speak of, why would they consider getting into bed with the same players that screwed a two billion dollar enterprise into submission? The players wanted no part of a partnership with the NHL, why should anyone trust them as a partner in the future?

8) So now that the players league is dead, how is the WHA viable? The WHA is total pipe dream. No one takes them seriously. Why would anyone invest any money in an enterprise that is going to disappear the minute the NHL comes back on line? Seems like a complete waste of money.

This is going to be entertaining.

 

[PecaFan]

Boy, that's a great plan there, Tom.

"We won't work for those billionaires for $1.6 million on average!

We'll show them! Let's got work for this *other* bunch of other billionaires for $160 thousand!"

This is pure entertainment. As I said, even more enjoyable than most NHL seasons.

 

[Tom_Benjamin]

Boy, that's a great plan there, Tom.

No, it sucks. But it is their Plan B. I'm more interested in the owner's Plan B. I don't think they have one.

Tom

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

No, it sucks. But it is their Plan B. I'm more interested in the owner's Plan B. I don't think they have one.

Tom

Seems they don't really need one. According to you the stars of the NHL are going to be flocking to a fly-by-night league where they play for $200K a year. As soon as these clowns go and do that, I suspect that the other 450 players will say @$#% this and head back to work, making five to ten times what the stars are in their little side venture. The league is back in business, the union folds lke a cheap tent, and the stars cut their noses off to spite their faces.

I like the way you think Tom. You and Wetcoaster should be working for the union. We'd have hockey in no time and the stars would be kicking themselves in the ass. I love it.

 

[Tom_Benjamin]

1) Where are the players getting the money to bankroll their new enterprise? It takes a big chunk of coin to run a league, even a 10 team league with 250 players. Where does this capital magically appear from?

It won't be the players.

2) Why would the players decide to play in this league, where the star players would be getting a couple hundred thousand dollars a season, turning their backs on the multi-millions in the NHL?

There are no multi-millions in the NHL. The players are locked out. The NHL is apparently imploding, committing suicide. Fine. Somebody else will start a league and the sooner the better.

3) So the stars decide to play in this new league of yours for a fraction of what they would make in the NHL. What about the other 450 players? Are they just going to idly sit by and watch their bonly chance at making big money fo down the toilet? Are they going to go take jobs at WalMart while the superstars continue to screw them over, playng in their new league?

In Europe. Yes, they are willing to watch the NHL go down the toilet. After losing this season, you think the players will agree to the owner plan? It is to laugh.

4) Where are these buildings going to come from? How are the players going to manage to dig up these buildings and draw more than flies to their new little venture?

They'll find a place to play. In the Pacific Coliseum in Vancouver. Wherever they can find a rink that seats a decent crowd. When the NHL ias a historical footnore - two years? three? - the new league will be able to get very nice leases in existing NHL rinks. They will also take a run at rinks that refuse them leases under anti-trust legislation.

5) Who is going to come out and watch this "all star extravaganza"? Will the fans embrace hockey that is likely going to be nothing less than the figure skating events put on during the all star break or any "player tour"?

No, it will be a real hockey league, with standings and everything.

6) How would this get a TV deal? Seriously, if the NHL, steeped in tradition and in 30 major markets across the continent cannot get a TV deal worth a damn, how are the players going to get a TV deal? Don't forget, it is the same players that have caused the down fall of the game that are going to be getting this new TV deal. How is this even remotely realistic?

I did not say it would be a big deal. Sportsnet is broadcasting the elite league out of Sweden these days. Think they won't pay to broadcast the WHA if the NHL is out of business? Everybody will show highlights.

7) These billionaires you speak of, why would they consider getting into bed with the same players that screwed a two billion dollar enterprise into submission?

Damned rights. If they have half a brain they know who blew it. It wasn't the players.

8) So now that the players league is dead, how is the WHA viable? The WHA is total pipe dream. No one takes them seriously. Why would anyone invest any money in an enterprise that is going to disappear the minute the NHL comes back on line? Seems like a complete waste of money.

It will not disappear if the NHL does not go back on line. This is the one huge roadblock. The WHA figures the owners will cave and leave them high and dry. If they believe the owners will stay solid, it's the best chance for a rival league since the AFL. Two competing leagues is in the player interest.

Tom

 

[Tom_Benjamin]

Seems they don't really need one. According to you the stars of the NHL are going to be flocking to a fly-by-night league where they play for $200K a year.

People told me this would happen when players flocked to Europe for $200k a year. Gee whiz. It didn't.

As soon as these clowns go and do that, I suspect that the other 450 players will say @$#% this and head back to work, making five to ten times what the stars are in their little side venture.

You suspect? Would you risk $200 million on the suspicion? That's what the owners have riding on this on average. I'd like to hear about the mechanism for a return to work. How can they? They are locked out, remember?

Tom

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

You suspect? Would you risk $200 million on the suspicion? That's what the owners have riding on this on average. I'd like to hear about the mechanism for a return to work. How can they? They are locked out, remember?

Tom

What mechanism? Gee, I dunno. The star players running off to play in a new league and letting the other players twist in the wind. The mechanism is called poverty. Seems like a pretty good mechanism, one the PA is under-estimating when they continue to push the big stars to more earnings and screw the little guy. All its going to take for that mechanism to kick in is for the star players start signing long term contracts (a full season or two with any league) and its all over.

And btw, just how are the players going to survive a challenge to the legitimacy of their union when 1/4 to 1/2 or the membership has taken a job within the industry while a work stoppage is going on? The time will come, and soon. Greedenow has set himself up for failure.

 

[me2]

People told me this would happen when players flocked to Europe for $200k a year. Gee whiz. It didn't.

And Europe hasn't been quite the holiday many have expected either.

You suspect? Would you risk $200 million on the suspicion? That's what the owners have riding on this on average. I'd like to hear about the mechanism for a return to work. How can they? They are locked out, remember?
Tom

The top few players can head for the $15m or so the WHA is going to offer as a payroll. What happens to the rest. What happens when the most of the NHLers are off contract and no longer employees of the NHL (and lose their right to vote on CBA issues)? If its the rich players and the stars that are the holdup on the CBA its probably best for the NHL that they go somewhere else while a deal gets done. A year in the WHA won't hurt the bargaining process.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

The top few players can head for the $15m or so the WHA is going to offer as a payroll. What happens to the rest. What happens when the most of the NHLers are off contract and no longer employees of the NHL (and lose their right to vote on CBA issues)? If its the rich players and the stars that are the holdup on the CBA its probably best for the NHL that they go somewhere else while a deal gets done. A year in the WHA won't hurt the bargaining process.

New management at the WHA hasn't indicated whether they will follow the previous regime's vow to stick to a $15 million per team cap. But that's neither here nor there.

NHLPA members remain NHLPA members for the duration of the labor dispute regardless of league they go to. This of course is predicated on them not crossing a NHLPA picket line.

 

[Tom_Benjamin]

What mechanism? Gee, I dunno. The star players running off to play in a new league and letting the other players twist in the wind. The mechanism is called poverty. Seems like a pretty good mechanism, one the PA is under-estimating when they continue to push the big stars to more earnings and screw the little guy. All its going to take for that mechanism to kick in is for the star players start signing long term contracts (a full season or two with any league) and its all over.

And what exactly are they going to do about it? The NHL is shut down remember?

All 700 NHL players will be working somewhere next year. Why wouldn't they be? They are the best players in the world. The Europeans won't be interested in the WHA until it gets a lot bigger than it begins, but I don't see the problem.

I do see a problem for the NHL owners. Another league gets an opportunity to try to take over the business. Gary Bettman can repeat his mantra "as long as it takes to get the right deal" and maintain his lockout. The players will move along and get work where they can.

Tom

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

All 700 NHL players will be working somewhere next year. Why wouldn't they be? They are the best players in the world. The Europeans won't be interested in the WHA until it gets a lot bigger than it begins, but I don't see the problem.

Where? Where are 700 NHLers going to find jobs? Europe is pretty well saturated. The players that are there are not making fans with those that run the teams. I highly doubt that many players will be heading across the pond as the demand won't be much higher than it is now. There are about 200-250 NHL players playing in other leagues around the world. I would like to know where the other 500 players are going to be finding employment? 25 WHA teams?

 

[grego]

I find the NHLPA argument absolutely hilarious.

NHLPA fans want to avoid the poverty of seeing the players cut back to salaries that are still above the level of the early 90s. But think it is such a brilliant idea to run off and work for a 1970s wage in a new hockey league.

The entire issue is completely about money with the two sides and nothing else. The cap means less money. Well the realitiy is, any other league means much less money

If they players want to make some money and work for someone else here is an idea. I miss hockey and have a few friends that miss hockey. We could try to get enough guys together to pay about 12 NHL players so they can play short games against each other on the river in my town. We could likely afford to give the guys a total of a few hundred dollars a week collectively. And it would be a return to old time hockey.

I think the players should jump at this chance, because they know they wont' be working for cold heartless billionaires. Just providing some entertainment to a bunch of hockey starved Canadians.

Hoping some players are reading this will think it is a great idea, because I miss watching NHL players.

 

[SENSible1*]

Here's hoping the players are getting as desperate as their supporters have obviously become.

Pure comedy Tom. Great "plan B". :lol

 

[PecaFan]

They'll find a place to play. In the Pacific Coliseum in Vancouver.

Um, no. The Giants have exclusive rights. They recently prevented a *lacrosse* team from renting the stadium, due to competition.

But hey, the Agrodome might be available. And bonus, it already smells like the stuff you're spreading around here. :lol

 

[Tom_Benjamin]

Where? Where are 700 NHLers going to find jobs? Europe is pretty well saturated. The players that are there are not making fans with those that run the teams. I highly doubt that many players will be heading across the pond as the demand won't be much higher than it is now. There are about 200-250 NHL players playing in other leagues around the world. I would like to know where the other 500 players are going to be finding employment? 25 WHA teams?

There are now 344 NHL players in Europe and that's before the next raft that goes over once they are sure the season is gone. Lots will end up in the AHL next year, too. They'll need players if the NHL isn't going to be signing any. NHL players are the best players in the world. They will end up with the best jobs that are available.

You highly doubt? Everybody highly doubted 344 players would end up playing in Europe too, didn't they? There isn't much else for them to do, is there? Everybody NHL player who wants to work will find a job playing hockey somewhere next year.

And the WHA will start signing players as soon as it becomes obvious that the NHL is not coming back next year either. When it becomes obvious that the new WHA is icing NHL quality teams, the product will sell.

Tom

 

[me2]

New management at the WHA hasn't indicated whether they will follow the previous regime's vow to stick to a $15 million per team cap. But that's neither here nor there.

NHLPA members remain NHLPA members for the duration of the labor dispute regardless of league they go to. This of course is predicated on them not crossing a NHLPA picket line.

They can be members of the NHLPA all they want, but does that mean they get to vote on NHL related matters? Do UFAs with no contract, and therefore no longer an employee (especially if employeed elsewhere aka Europe/WHA), get to vote on whether the NHLPA represents them in dealings with the NHL?

I would have thought only players with valid existing contracts (arguably unemployeed but still on reserve RFA) would be able to vote. If there is a vote to kick out the NHLPA as the representitive union, surely only valid employees would count.

 

[me2]

There are now 344 NHL players in Europe and that's before the next raft that goes over once they are sure the season is gone. Lots will end up in the AHL next year, too. They'll need players if the NHL isn't going to be signing any. NHL players are the best players in the world. They will end up with the best jobs that are available.

You highly doubt? Everybody highly doubted 344 players would end up playing in Europe too, didn't they? There isn't much else for them to do, is there? Everybody NHL player who wants to work will find a job playing hockey somewhere next year.

Don't the European leagues limit the number of imports? I know some/many have already used their quotas. Are they going to create new teams to accomodate these extra players?

And the WHA will start signing players as soon as it becomes obvious that the NHL is not coming back next year either. When it becomes obvious that the new WHA is icing NHL quality teams, the product will sell.
Tom

When? More like if? And they still have to find places for them to play. Almost all of the decent rinks in suitable places already have a hockey team installed. Are they going to kick out those hockey teams to make way for the WHA?

Are they going to make the existing team so vulnerable it folds or relocates?

Would you kick out a stable team for some fly-by-night wonder? A team that if success forces the NHL to reopen it doors, thereby killing the WHA franchise? A team that if unsuccessful will be gone in 3 months. Would you risk losing your best tenent for that kind of grief?

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

They can be members of the NHLPA all they want, but does that mean they get to vote on NHL related matters?

All NHLPA members in good standing can vote on issues for as long as the dispute continues. Eligibility was established at the time of the lockout.

 

[me2]

All NHLPA members in good standing can vote on issues for as long as the dispute continues. Eligibility was established at the time of the lockout.

Demitra had no contract? Does he get a vote?

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Demitra had no contract? Does he get a vote?

Yes. He meets the established criteria.