Amazing Karlsson stat

[Korpse]

Karlsson was sort of a reach in 2008. THN had him ranked in the 3rd round IIRC.

He was like 5'11 and 160 lbs.

He was a late riser. That's THN though, Mckeens which I find to be better personally had him at #10.

 

[maaran]

Karlsson is much better than both Coffey and Potvin.

 

[NyQuil]

Karlsson is much better than both Coffey and Potvin.

As a huge fan of Karlsson, I wouldn't go that far.

I think they're on the same tier at the moment for sure.

 

[1967th Heaven]

EK is amazing, hands down the best Dman of this generation and best I've ever watched (I'm 21)

Edit: Actually I guess that'd be Lidstrom

 

[AUAIOMRN]

top 3 all time offensive contribution to a team offense by a defenseman, the best in 30+ years and the best in a 30-team league.

doesn't get norris trophy.

hmmmmmm

i wonder why.....

The goal of every skater is actually the same: minimize scoring chances against, maximize scoring chances for. The best defenseman is not the one that is "best at defense", it's the one that contributes most to winning. And winning happens at both ends of the rink - so yes, offense matters for defensemen.

Also, to answer "why": the Norris is awarded to the player that gets the most votes as "the best defenseman" - which is not necessarily the player that is actually the best defenseman.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

This stat was well known.. Even last year when he shoulda won the Norris, his shot blocking stat was insane

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

EK is amazing, hands down the best Dman of this generation and best I've ever watched (I'm 21)

Edit: Actually I guess that'd be Lidstrom

Yup, i have always loved EK but i saw him live a couple years ago and since then, ive claimed he is the best dman ive ever seen and one of the best players ive ever seen

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I've posted this in another thread, but I'll re-post it here, since it certainly qualifies as an "amazing Karlsson stat":

DEFENSEMEN CONTRIBUTION TO TEAM OFFENSE

Players | Season | Team | Points | TeamG | Percentage
Bobby Orr | 1970 | BOS | 120 | 277 | 43.3%
Bobby Orr | 1975 | BOS | 135 | 345 | 39.1%
Erik Karlsson | 2016 | OTT | 82| 236 | 35.7%
Bobby Orr | 1972 | BOS | 117 | 330 | 35.5%
Bobby Orr | 1974 | BOS | 122 | 349 | 35%
Erik Karlsson | 2017 | OTT | 72 | 206 | 35%
Bobby Orr | 1971 | BOS | 139 | 399 | 34.8%
Brent Burns | 2017 | SJS | 76 | 219 | 34.7%
Phil Housley | 1992 | WIN | 86 | 251 | 34.3%
Denis Potvin | 1976 | NYI | 98 | 297 | 33%
Paul Coffey | 1989 | PIT | 113 | 347 | 32.6%
Paul Coffey | 1990 | PIT | 103 | 318 | 32.4%
Paul Coffey | 1986 | EDM | 138 | 426 | 32.4%
Erik Karlsson | 2014 | OTT | 74 | 229 | 32.3%
Paul Coffey | 1995 | DET | 58 | 180 | 32.2%
Erik Karlsson | 2012 | OTT | 78 | 243 | 32.1%
Brian Leetch | 1992 | NYR | 102 | 321 | 31.8%
Ray Bourque | 1987 | BOS | 95 | 301 | 31.6%
Brian Leetch | 2001 | NYR | 79 | 250 | 31.6%
Ray Bourque | 1994 | BOS | 91 | 289 | 31.5%

This statistic looks at the percentage of their team's offense a defenseman has contributed to. I don't remember how far back the data goes, but it's at least to 1950, if not earlier.

As you'd expect, Bobby Orr dominates the list. He has the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th highest-ranking seasons of all-time.

What was surprising is how well Karlsson fares. He ranks 3rd, 6th, 14th and 16th. He already has as many spots on the list as Coffey (but consistently ranks higher). He fares better than Bourque and Leetch. Most impressively, Orr and Karlsson combined to up all of the top seven positions.

To be fair to Coffey... think of the teammates he had. Yes, he benefitted from them from a scoring standpoint but in terms of dominating the percentage of offense, it's tough to do that when you've got a guy putting up 200 points on your roster.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Karlsson is much better than both Coffey and Potvin.

LOL good one. Derek Stepan is much better than Brian Trottier as well.

 

[deckercky]

Isn't that just showing us what an impact Karlsson has? Orr had a good team around him to inflate his numbers, Karlsson inflates his team mates numbers.

Not taking anything away from Orr, he is pretty much untouchable in offensive stats when it comes to d-men.

Typically, a player scoring a huge percentage of a team's points indicates that the team is low talent. If the team was full of talented offensive players, the offence tends to get spread around.

One important value missing from that chart is the number of points scored by the team leader. For example, Coffey's 1986 season is his only Edmonton season on that chart, and he was 77 pts behind Gretzky for team scoring lead. That tells a much different story than Coffey's 1995 season, when he led the Red Wings in scoring.

Surprised to see Burns' season rank so highly, since the Sharks have a ton of offensive depth.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Karlsson is much better than both Coffey and Potvin.

Can you prove that?

 

[Barrie22]

Typically, a player scoring a huge percentage of a team's points indicates that the team is low talent. If the team was full of talented offensive players, the offence tends to get spread around.

One important value missing from that chart is the number of points scored by the team leader. For example, Coffey's 1986 season is his only Edmonton season on that chart, and he was 77 pts behind Gretzky for team scoring lead. That tells a much different story than Coffey's 1995 season, when he led the Red Wings in scoring.

Surprised to see Burns' season rank so highly, since the Sharks have a ton of offensive depth.

Burns lead the team in goals, assists, and points. Not that suprising.

 

[ybnvs]

DEFENSEMEN CONTRIBUTION TO TEAM OFFENSE

Players | Season | Team | Points | TeamG | Percentage
Bobby Orr | 1970 | BOS | 120 | 277 | 43.3%
Bobby Orr | 1975 | BOS | 135 | 345 | 39.1%
Erik Karlsson | 2016 | OTT | 82| 236 | 35.7%
Bobby Orr | 1972 | BOS | 117 | 330 | 35.5%
Bobby Orr | 1974 | BOS | 122 | 349 | 35%
Erik Karlsson | 2017 | OTT | 72 | 206 | 35%
Bobby Orr | 1971 | BOS | 139 | 399 | 34.8%
Brent Burns | 2017 | SJS | 76 | 219 | 34.7%
Phil Housley | 1992 | WIN | 86 | 251 | 34.3%
Denis Potvin | 1976 | NYI | 98 | 297 | 33%
Paul Coffey | 1989 | PIT | 113 | 347 | 32.6%
Paul Coffey | 1990 | PIT | 103 | 318 | 32.4%
Paul Coffey | 1986 | EDM | 138 | 426 | 32.4%
Erik Karlsson | 2014 | OTT | 74 | 229 | 32.3%
Paul Coffey | 1995 | DET | 58 | 180 | 32.2%
Erik Karlsson | 2012 | OTT | 78 | 243 | 32.1%
Brian Leetch | 1992 | NYR | 102 | 321 | 31.8%
Ray Bourque | 1987 | BOS | 95 | 301 | 31.6%
Brian Leetch | 2001 | NYR | 79 | 250 | 31.6%
Ray Bourque | 1994 | BOS | 91 | 289 | 31.5%

Why are you dividing his individual total points into the team's total goals? Those are not like variables. Why not divide his goals into the total team goals? Why not divide his total points into the team's total points? Relevance.
Also, just doing math on Karlsson alone, it's wrong. Double check your math. Also, if you're going to round, learn the rules of significant figures and don't fudge the rounding either.

Or maybe I'm just dumb and not understanding this?

 

[Anidalife]

Why are you dividing his individual total points into the team's total goals? Those are not like variables. Why not divide his goals into the total team goals? Why not divide his total points into the team's total points? Relevance.
Also, just doing math on Karlsson alone, it's wrong. Double check your math. Also, if you're going to round, learn the rules of significant figures and don't fudge the rounding either.

Or maybe I'm just dumb and not understanding this?

Yes.
You're trying too hard to try to sound smart and disprove something when all he did was present a stat. lol significant figures.

Also, it took me all of 30 seconds to check his stats and realize there is a typo, and not a math error, in the total goals by ottawa in 15-16. If you are as smart as you think you are, you could have done this too.

 

[ybnvs]

Yes.
You're trying too hard to try to sound smart and disprove something when all he did was present a stat. lol significant figures.

What was I trying to disprove again?

None of this was substantiated between his goals, team goals, his primary assists and secondary assists, and so on and so forth. It's a bit confusing, and I am just trying to have some clarification.

Also, it took me all of 30 seconds to check his stats and realize there is a typo, and not a math error, in the total goals by ottawa in 15-16. If you are as smart as you think you are, you could have done this too.

Wrong. It's not up to me to make sure he can input values correctly.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Why are you dividing his individual total points into the team's total goals? Those are not like variables. Why not divide his goals into the total team goals? Why not divide his total points into the team's total points? Relevance.

Because doing it this way shows the percentage of team goals that Karlsson factored into.

It's more relevant than "percentage of team points", and this is the typical calculation that people have been doing for years.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Isn't that just showing us what an impact Karlsson has? Orr had a good team around him to inflate his numbers, Karlsson inflates his team mates numbers.

That argument cuts both ways.

It is more difficult to put up an even bigger gap as Orr did when you have better teammates.

I mean Orr is putting up those percentages with Esposito and company.

Coffey has Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman/Fedorov as teammates on these teams.

etc.

Who is producing offense for the Sens when Karlsson isn't?

 

[LordNeverLose]

Not only does he usually lead all NHL Defensmen in scoring every year and top 5 almogst all skaters in Assists year in year out.

He also leads ALL players in Blocked shots as well.

Would the best historical comparison be to Denis Potvin or Paul Coffey

Or is he better?

He doesn't have close to the physical presence of Potvin. Right now the best comparable is Coffey, but if he continues to play like he did this post-season he'll reach that top echelon of Potvin, Bourque, Lidstrom, Harvey (excluding Orr because he was his own echelon).

 

[LordNeverLose]

I've posted this in another thread, but I'll re-post it here, since it certainly qualifies as an "amazing Karlsson stat":

DEFENSEMEN CONTRIBUTION TO TEAM OFFENSE

Players | Season | Team | Points | TeamG | Percentage
Bobby Orr | 1970 | BOS | 120 | 277 | 43.3%
Bobby Orr | 1975 | BOS | 135 | 345 | 39.1%
Erik Karlsson | 2016 | OTT | 82| 236 | 35.7%
Bobby Orr | 1972 | BOS | 117 | 330 | 35.5%
Bobby Orr | 1974 | BOS | 122 | 349 | 35%
Erik Karlsson | 2017 | OTT | 72 | 206 | 35%
Bobby Orr | 1971 | BOS | 139 | 399 | 34.8%
Brent Burns | 2017 | SJS | 76 | 219 | 34.7%
Phil Housley | 1992 | WIN | 86 | 251 | 34.3%
Denis Potvin | 1976 | NYI | 98 | 297 | 33%
Paul Coffey | 1989 | PIT | 113 | 347 | 32.6%
Paul Coffey | 1990 | PIT | 103 | 318 | 32.4%
Paul Coffey | 1986 | EDM | 138 | 426 | 32.4%
Erik Karlsson | 2014 | OTT | 74 | 229 | 32.3%
Paul Coffey | 1995 | DET | 58 | 180 | 32.2%
Erik Karlsson | 2012 | OTT | 78 | 243 | 32.1%
Brian Leetch | 1992 | NYR | 102 | 321 | 31.8%
Ray Bourque | 1987 | BOS | 95 | 301 | 31.6%
Brian Leetch | 2001 | NYR | 79 | 250 | 31.6%
Ray Bourque | 1994 | BOS | 91 | 289 | 31.5%

This statistic looks at the percentage of their team's offense a defenseman has contributed to. I don't remember how far back the data goes, but it's at least to 1950, if not earlier.

As you'd expect, Bobby Orr dominates the list. He has the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th highest-ranking seasons of all-time.

What was surprising is how well Karlsson fares. He ranks 3rd, 6th, 14th and 16th. He already has as many spots on the list as Coffey (but consistently ranks higher). He fares better than Bourque and Leetch. Most impressively, Orr and Karlsson combined to up all of the top seven positions.

The guys on that list played with Esposito, Bossy, Trottier, Gretzky, Messier, etc.

Karlsson plays with Kyle Turris and Mark Stone as his best teammates, so of course his share of scoring is going to be higher.

 

[Nash]

Coffey is really impressive in that he put up those numbers on three different teams. However, you really have to consider how inflated his powerplay totals are from playing with the likes Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Yzerman, Federov and Messier, and how those powerplay numbers increase his offensive contribution.

1989 64 PP of 113 P
1990 48 PP of 103 P
1986 32 PP of 138 P
1995 31 PP of 58 P

I'd be interested in seeing a chart of offensive contribution to powerplay goals, and then remove those numbers from the existing chart to see how everything else lines up.

For example...in Karlsson's best year on the main chart (2016), he had 26 PP points out of 38 team goals, or 68.4% contribution, and all other situations he is still a 28.3% contributor.

In Coffey's best year on the main chart (1989), he had 64 PP points out of 119 team goals, or 53.7% contribution, and all other situations he is 21.5%.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

[/b]

hmmmmmm

i wonder why.....

Right on.

No one has ever questioned his offensive ability.

And shot blocking signifies little.

 

[amnesiac]

The guys on that list played with Esposito, Bossy, Trottier, Gretzky, Messier, etc.

Karlsson plays with Kyle Turris and Mark Stone as his best teammates, so of course his share of scoring is going to be higher.

Thats maybe even more impressive that hes put up that many points with no stars up front!

 

[Agent Zub]

He doesn't have close to the physical presence of Potvin. Right now the best comparable is Coffey, but if he continues to play like he did this post-season he'll reach that top echelon of Potvin, Bourque, Lidstrom, Harvey (excluding Orr because he was his own echelon).

That wasn't even Karlsson at his best.

Sens fans have been saying he is this good for years.

But I agree with your conclusion.No one will reach Orr, but that second tier is a group that Karlsson will be a part of if he maintains his play.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Why are you dividing his individual total points into the team's total goals? Those are not like variables. Why not divide his goals into the total team goals? Why not divide his total points into the team's total points? Relevance.
Also, just doing math on Karlsson alone, it's wrong. Double check your math. Also, if you're going to round, learn the rules of significant figures and don't fudge the rounding either.

Or maybe I'm just dumb and not understanding this?

1. Over the years I've generally heard people talk about points scored relative to a team's offense. It's rare for people to talk about goals or assists in isolation, in this context. That being said, in my original post, I look at goals, assists, and points separately. You can read through the results here - http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2062691

2. I double checked my numbers. The only error was that I said Ottawa scored 236 goals rather than 230 goals in 2016. (Karlsson's contribution of 35.7% - 82 points on 230 goals - was correct). Shootout goals are excluded from the totals here (so the Sens got credit for 236 goals in the standings, but only actually scored 230 goals, since they had six shootout victories). I should have been clearer on that point.

3. The rounding is done automatically in Excel. I double-checked all the amounts and there are no errors. Let me know if you see one.

Also, a number of people have said that Karlsson's results are somewhat less impressive because he plays on a weaker team. I think there's some truth to that. Orr contributing 35% of the scoring on a record-breaking offensive powerhouse is more impressive than Karlsson contributing 35% of the scoring on a below-average offensive team. But a lot of defensemen have played on mediocre offensive teams over the years, and none of them have results nearly as good, or as consistent, as Karlsson's.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Coffey is really impressive in that he put up those numbers on three different teams. However, you really have to consider how inflated his powerplay totals are from playing with the likes Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Yzerman, Federov and Messier, and how those powerplay numbers increase his offensive contribution.

1989 64 PP of 113 P
1990 48 PP of 103 P
1986 32 PP of 138 P
1995 31 PP of 58 P

I'd be interested in seeing a chart of offensive contribution to powerplay goals, and then remove those numbers from the existing chart to see how everything else lines up.

For example...in Karlsson's best year on the main chart (2016), he had 26 PP points out of 38 team goals, or 68.4% contribution, and all other situations he is still a 28.3% contributor.

In Coffey's best year on the main chart (1989), he had 64 PP points out of 119 team goals, or 53.7% contribution, and all other situations he is 21.5%.

I'd like to break down the data like that, but unfortunately I don't have that level of detail.

pnep to the rescue?