alternative look at bruins 'drafting'/development record

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

so I was just listening to some podcast hockey talk on the bruins from weii and one of their experts was talking about how the b's only had caron to show for a three year period of drafts... this type of talk kind of makes me want to puke because of how bias an agenda it is and how much it warps the truth. drafting is a complicated procedure which relies a lot on where you draft... but then you have to develop the picks once you make them. then sometimes you trade some of your guys away

im going to show what type of lineup our scouting/development department actually has put together. im going to include some undrafted names who either signed their first contracts with us out of college or played their first games in the nhl for us after we made minor league deals for them. This is a pretty impressive 22 man roster if you ask me...

up front is completely loaded
Phil Kessel/Joe Thorton/Blake Wheeler {all top 20 scorers last year}
Tyler Seguin/Patrice Bergeron/Brad Marchand
David Pastrnak/David Krejci/Kris Versteeg
Antoine Roussel/Vladamir Sobotka/Milan Lucic {imagine this as a 4th line wow}
Joe Colburn

Defense would need an upgrade but it would be very feesible to trade one of our superstar forwards or a couple of them to quickly fix this defense

Dougie Hamilton/Mark Stuart
Adam McQuaid/Torey Krug
Kevan Miller/Matt Bartowski
Joe Morrow

Goaltending is strong because we identified Tukka Rask as a kid to go after even though we didn't actually draft him. Our only pure draft pick playing regular in the NHL is Michael Hutchinson

Tukka Rask
Michael Hutchinson

Now some will say not all these picks were made by the current regime... some will say its not fair to include kids that were traded for as minor leaguers/juniors... some will want to point at the defense and say that we have sucked at drafting/developing dmen...

but I challenge you to find more than 1 or 2 other organizations in the NHL that can put together a stronger 23 man roster where every name either played their first game with the team or at least was property of the team before ever playing their first game

our ability to identify nhl talent is damn good and I offer this little post up as my proof to back up that statement

Click to read more...

 

[BNHL]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2014/5/9/drafting-for-success

 

[Beesfan]

http://nhlnumbers.com/2014/5/9/drafting-for-success

So a solid empirical argument can be made that the Bruins were the best drafting team in the league from 2003-2013. Very interesting. Credit to the current management.

Personally, I think their drafting has been great. The only glaring error that I can see was the Hamill pick. I actually liked it at the time, but I didn't know that he was small AND slow. Loved what I saw from Colborne when Calgary was in town. I think he's going to play another 800 games in the NHL. People forget that sometimes these prospects take a long time to develop. That's why I still like Caron. Big body that put up ~PPG when sent to the AHL this year and has all the tools for success.

 

[LouisSleigher]

The fallacy is that you can't get Seguin or Hamilton without Kessel, or Morrow without Seguin. In other words, if Kessel had only stayed, your lineup couldn't include these others.

 

[LSCII]

The fallacy is that you can't get Seguin or Hamilton without Kessel, or Morrow without Seguin. In other words, if Kessel had only stayed, your lineup couldn't include these others.

Not to mention that the vast majority of "hits" on players predate the current regime. Even further, the majority of impact players that they were lucky enough to hit on have already been moved out, and typically for lesser players in return.

 

[Beesfan]

Not to mention that the vast majority of "hits" on players predate the current regime. Even further, the majority of impact players that they were lucky enough to hit on have already been moved out, and typically for lesser players in return.

In the linked study that found the Bruins to be perhaps the best drafting team in the NHL, 7/10 years were under Chiarelli.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

I'm sure if you took every teams draft record and cherry picked the good players from the last 20 years I'm sure they'd all look good.

This proves absolutely nothing.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Not to mention that the vast majority of "hits" on players predate the current regime. Even further, the majority of impact players that they were lucky enough to hit on have already been moved out, and typically for lesser players in return.

Yeah I think you see nothing outside of Hamilton Pastrnak and Seguin as "hits" from this management crew at the draft.

 

[Lobster57]

In the linked study that found the Bruins to be perhaps the best drafting team in the NHL, 7/10 years were under Chiarelli.

and? if you only used those 7 years how would they rank?

 

[ODAAT]

Just thought I`d use the Hawks draft history

Outside of the Toews/Kane gimmies, and not really paying a ton of attention to their most recent picks as they will need time to develop. I`m looking at a team who has made some nice picks but those picks that have been exceptionally valuable are the one`s such as Shaw/Kruger in the 5th round, a Ben Smith in the 6th round

We look at their higher picks and for every great pick like Saad in the 2nd or Keith way back in 2002, fair to say they have had their share of picks who I am sure their fan base is still scratchin their heads over

Problem with this team, those late round picks or diamonds in the rough haven`t really been there for the B`s, players they can stuff on the 3rd/4th lines, not having to over pay them to play, forcing management to spend $$ where they could have saved if they had a few of those Shaw type picks



http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005218.html

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I'm sure if you took every teams draft record and cherry picked the good players from the last 20 years I'm sure they'd all look good.

This proves absolutely nothing.

Would be interesting for you to find more than 3 teams that you could argue are better than us... ive actually taken the time to do exercises of this nature and i know ive never been able to prove your claim

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Would be interesting for you to find more than 3 teams that you could argue are better than us... ive actually taken the time to do exercises of this nature and i know ive never been able to prove your claim

Ducks/Sharks/Kings all as good or better.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Ducks/Sharks/Kings all as good or better.

Wondering if youd want to put together a roster from one of those teams then post it up and see how mny of us believe we would rather have it

 

[LSCII]

Yeah I think you see nothing outside of Hamilton Pastrnak and Seguin as "hits" from this management crew at the draft.

It's amazing to me the lengths some fans here will go in order to convince themselves that PC has done a good job drafting. Giving him credit for guys who were taken before him. Giving him credit for guys he moved on from. Ignoring the fact that the few times he's actually drafted a decent player, he's moved that guy for quantity over quality. It's incredible. From the very jump, Chiarelli has shown questionable judgement. Dave Lewis? Taking on Manny Fernandez and his inflated salary while giving no money back? Letting Burke control the entire Kessel deal?

 

[NiftyWasNasty]

It's amazing to me the lengths some fans here will go in order to convince themselves that PC has done a good job drafting. Giving him credit for guys who were taken before him. Giving him credit for guys he moved on from. Ignoring the fact that the few times he's actually drafted a decent player, he's moved that guy for quantity over quality. It's incredible. From the very jump, Chiarelli has shown questionable judgement. Dave Lewis? Taking on Manny Fernandez and his inflated salary while giving no money back? Letting Burke control the entire Kessel deal?

This goes both ways...

It's amazing to me how many fans feel the need to ignore the major organizational changes made after the 2009 draft. The results speak for themselves, the Bruins don't suck at drafting anymore.

It's one thing to point to the 07-09 drafts and label them bad. But it is quite different, and a bit ridiculous, to ignore the changes made as a result of those poor drafts and the significant positive impact those moves have had. The Bruins are looking much better at drafting since 2010.

Last night alone they got the win on the shoulders of two players on entry level contracts who were drafted after the changes...

 

[Bruwinz37]

Yea the farm is stacked and has been adding key contributors for the past couple years when needed.

I know I am sold. Lol

 

[NiftyWasNasty]

Yea the farm is stacked and has been adding key contributors for the past couple years when needed.

I know I am sold. Lol

Umm...We all know there were 3 straight years with very poor drafting...of course the cupboard is a little bare...the point is that talent pool IS improving...

 

[captain stone]

our ability to identify nhl talent is damn good and I offer this little post up as my proof to back up that statement

What an absolute joke. Are you related to the Chiapet somehow, because any objective person can easily see that his drafts have been pure, unadulterated garbage.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Spooner, Pasta and Ferlin all starting to show some signs of NHL ability. Not saying I know for a fact that any of them will be in the league in 3 years. But they all show the promise at least.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

What an absolute joke. Are you related to the Chiapet somehow, because any objective person can easily see that his drafts have been pure, unadulterated garbage.

Remember gm's dont pick draft choices or manage the farm system. Sometimes they dont even hire the people that do.

You seem very misinformed imn addition to being on a personal agenda using an insult for his name

 

[captain stone]

Whatever.

 

[Dimaio19]

so I was just listening to some podcast hockey talk on the bruins from weii and one of their experts was talking about how the b's only had caron to show for a three year period of drafts... this type of talk kind of makes me want to puke because of how bias an agenda it is and how much it warps the truth. drafting is a complicated procedure which relies a lot on where you draft... but then you have to develop the picks once you make them. then sometimes you trade some of your guys away

im going to show what type of lineup our scouting/development department actually has put together. im going to include some undrafted names who either signed their first contracts with us out of college or played their first games in the nhl for us after we made minor league deals for them. This is a pretty impressive 22 man roster if you ask me...

up front is completely loaded
Phil Kessel/Joe Thorton/Blake Wheeler {all top 20 scorers last year}
Tyler Seguin/Patrice Bergeron/Brad Marchand
David Pastrnak/David Krejci/Kris Versteeg
Antoine Roussel/Vladamir Sobotka/Milan Lucic {imagine this as a 4th line wow}
Joe Colburn

Defense would need an upgrade but it would be very feesible to trade one of our superstar forwards or a couple of them to quickly fix this defense

Dougie Hamilton/Mark Stuart
Adam McQuaid/Torey Krug
Kevan Miller/Matt Bartowski
Joe Morrow

Goaltending is strong because we identified Tukka Rask as a kid to go after even though we didn't actually draft him. Our only pure draft pick playing regular in the NHL is Michael Hutchinson

Tukka Rask
Michael Hutchinson

Now some will say not all these picks were made by the current regime... some will say its not fair to include kids that were traded for as minor leaguers/juniors... some will want to point at the defense and say that we have sucked at drafting/developing dmen...

but I challenge you to find more than 1 or 2 other organizations in the NHL that can put together a stronger 23 man roster where every name either played their first game with the team or at least was property of the team before ever playing their first game

our ability to identify nhl talent is damn good and I offer this little post up as my proof to back up that statement

Weren't most of these guys Jeff Gorton/Daniel Dore or Harry Sinden guys?

Thornton
Versteeg
Rask (drafted by Toronto, acquired by Gorton)
Bergeron
Krejci
Marchand
Lucic
Stuart
Sobotka
McQuaid (drafted by Columbus)

While others barely played (if at all) in the minors (Wheeler, Krug) and another undrafted guy was so "well developed" that the team let him go for nothing (Antoine Roussel).

This is a really bizarre attempt to prop up the current regime's track record. The fact that the vast majority of these hits were neither drafted by the current regime nor developed in the minors by the current regime is telling. That many of the most successful have blossomed on other teams while the Bruins have little to show for those trades speaks volumes about just how "good" this regime is at evaluating their talent.

Lastly, were this team as good as you posit at drafting and developing young talent, they probably wouldn't be in such a bad spot with regards to the cap.

 

[EverettMike]

Hard to imagine the point being made here when a draft pick from 1997 is included, let alone a ton of guys drafted by the previous regime.

I guess that Joe Thornton pick really does help Chiarelli's drafting resume.....

 

[Duguay]

This is a fantasy list and is not applicable to any form of professional measurement

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Hard to imagine the point being made here when a draft pick from 1997 is included, let alone a ton of guys drafted by the previous regime.

I guess that Joe Thornton pick really does help Chiarelli's drafting resume.....

this isn't a comment about chiarelli's drafting since gms don't make draft picks... but rather is a measure of the bruins ability to draft/develop/acquire 'kids' capable of being part of a building process

obviously many draft picks are still struggling to be contrinutors even 5 years after their draft date so trying to evaluate any gm on their own draft record is kind of a very flawed procedure to begin with.

a gm can prioritize a 'style' of player that he wants his scounts to find. in Edmonton for example its been well documented for more than 30 years that the oilers are loath to take anyone that isn't an above average skater. the oilers will time after time look past a gritty player to take a skater instead. no more glaring example of this was seen than when the oilers took steve Kelly over shane doan at their own draft party despite the entire arena screaming for doan to be taken.

I think its pretty obvious boston has always prioritized grit/character over skill. is this a chiarelli doctorine though? or one he had handed to him at the time of his hire and told to make work?

boston's bias towards skill/grit/size goes back long before chiarelli was hired which is why my little example is intended to be a measure of boston's draft record as opposed to chiarelli's

and to be honest... having a guy like joe thornton still around kind of proves the team made a very good pick with that choice. being able to identify future hof talent is a good thing.

I follow drafting very closely and I know a team like new jersey or Ottawa might become the flavor of the month is they go through a 5-10 year period of time where they hit on a few picks. I know also these teams might go the next 5-10 years without hitting on very many picks.

these things tend to average out. that's why im using a full history of all active players to show that its pretty short sighted to panic over a 3 year period of time. even Detroit has had a down period for a few years during this past run of team building.

I know some fans want to complain... and they probably have that right if they buy their tickets. but I offer up this thread as a challenge to show us what other team is better? being unhappy for the sake of being unhappy seems so sad. if you can show me 1-2-3-4-5-6 other teams that have done better than I start to take the complaints more serious.

complaining without having an answer is very unproductive.

and I will say that as a lifer here... I watched the comments after each draft and this board has usually been very supportive of most the picks made. and the players a lot of the complainers here championed have often failed to develop.

who here screamed when we didn't take angela Esposito?

I know I was so desperate to see us take jeff woywitka... but that would have been a fail

I loved when we took guys like Shayne Stevenson, Cameron mann, kyle wanvig but I was wrong

most draft picks fail... if you aren't picking top 5 then the numbers tell you that over 50% of picks will fail. once you get out of the first round that number jumps to over 80% will fail.

failing is the norm.

many very good players don't even get drafted. the best scouting staffs in the nhl often fail to identify guys that go on to have very good careers.

drafting isn't easy

anyhow... take my little example of real evidence of bostons real draft history for what you want. I offer anyone to show me why other teams are better. I doubt anyone will because if they try they too will fail

bostons draft record is very good