All-time Original Six re-draft

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Boxscore, Aug 17, 2017.

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  1. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    (I'm sorry if this is not the right place on the boards to place this, but it is historical in nature so I assumed it was. If not, could a Mod please revise?)

    So, premise...

    A. Over the weekend, five buddies and myself had a table at the pub and, being the nerds we are, decided to re-draft for the Original Six teams using every player in hockey history.

    B. All players based on prime play (*except for McDavid obviously).

    C. Draft order was selected at random: (1) New York, (2) Toronto, (3) Montreal, (4) Detroit, (5) Boston, (6) Chicago. Draft was a "snake draft" - meaning Chicago drafted 6th and 7th, etc.

    D. I know we forgot some players. :rant:

    Here were the results...


    :rangers (1st)

    FORWARDS
    Gretzky, Wayne
    Richard, Maurice
    Lafleur, Guy
    Trottier, Bryan
    Bucyk, Johnny
    Kurri, Jari
    McDavid, Connor
    Shanahan, Brendan
    Stastny, Peter
    Gillies, Clark
    Gilbert, Rod
    Datsyuk, Pavel
    LaFontaine, Pat
    Anderson, Glenn
    Barber, Bill

    DEFENSEMEN
    Potvin, Denis
    Park, Brad
    Karlsson, Erik
    Gadsby, Bill
    Blake, Rob
    Vasiliev, Valeri
    Pronovost, Marcel
    Murphy, Larry

    GOALIES
    Hall, Glenn
    Parent, Bernie
    Price, Carey

    --------------------

    :leafs (2nd)

    FORWARDS
    Hull, Bobby
    Clarke, Bobby
    Mikita, Stan
    Lindros, Eric
    Forsberg, Peter
    Makarov, Sergei
    Gainey, Bob
    Keon, Dave
    Hull, Brett
    Sundin, Mats
    Clark, Wendel
    Alfredsson, Daniel
    Getzlaf, Ryan
    Kerr, Tim
    Oates, Adam

    DEFENSEMEN
    Orr, Bobby
    Harvey, Doug
    Pronger, Chris
    Stevens, Scott
    MacInnis, Al
    Leetch, Brian
    Weber, Shea
    Hedman, Victor

    GOALIES
    Brodeur, Martin
    Broda, Turk
    Fuhr, Grant

    --------------------

    :habs (3rd)

    FORWARDS
    Lemieux, Mario
    Beliveau, Jean
    Bossy, Mike
    Sakic, Joe
    Mahovlich, Frank
    Joliat, Aurele
    Malone, Joe
    Firsov, Anatoly
    Iginla, Jarome
    Richard, Henri
    Nighbor, Frank
    Goulet, Michel
    Robitaille, Luc
    Gilmour, Doug
    Modano, Mike

    DEFENSEMEN
    Bourque, Raymond
    Kelly, Leonard (Red)
    Langway, Rod
    Savard, Serge
    Niedermayer, Scott
    Lapointe, Guy
    Subban, P.K.
    Laperriere, Jacques

    GOALIES
    Roy, Patrick
    Dryden, Ken
    Vezina, Georges

    --------------------

    :wings (4th)

    FORWARDS
    Howe, Gordie
    Yzerman, Steve
    Morenz, Howie
    Lindsay, Ted
    Dionne, Marcel
    Taylor, Fred (Cyclone)
    Francis, Ron
    Mikhailov, Boris
    Perreault, Gilbert
    Bathgate, Andy
    Hossa, Marian
    Shutt, Steve
    Hawerchuk, Dale
    Krutov, Vladimir
    Nieuwendyk, Joe

    DEFENSEMEN
    Lidstrom, Nicklas
    Chelios, Chris
    Salming, Borje
    Seibert, Earl
    Howe, Mark
    Doughty, Drew
    Konstantinov, Vladimir
    Zubov, Sergei

    GOALIES
    Plante, Jacques
    Tretiak, Vladislav
    Lundqvist, Henrik

    --------------------

    :bruins (5th)

    FORWARDS
    Messier, Mark
    Ovechkin, Alexander
    Esposito, Phil
    Cook, Bill
    Conacher, Charlie
    Schmidt, Milt
    Apps, Syl Sr.
    Neely, Cam
    Tkachuk, Keith
    Blake, Hector (Toe)
    LeClair, John
    Mogilny, Alexander
    Thornton, Joe
    Gartner, Mike
    Roenick, Jeremy

    DEFENSEMEN
    Shore, Eddie
    Robinson, Larry
    Clancy, Francis (King)
    Horton, Tim
    Chara, Zdeno
    Clapper, Aubrey (Dit)
    Suter, Ryan
    Housley, Phil

    GOALIES
    Sawchuk, Terry
    Smith, Billy
    Esposito, Tony

    --------------------

    :hawks (6th)

    FORWARDS
    Crosby, Sidney
    Jagr, Jaromir
    Kharlamov, Valeri
    Lalonde, Edouard (Newsy)
    Malkin, Evgeni
    Bure, Pavel
    Geoffrion, Bernard (Boom Boom)
    Selanne, Teemu
    Fedorov, Sergei
    Moore, Dickie
    Bentley, Max
    Kariya, Paul
    Toews, Jonathan
    Kane, Patrick
    Tocchet, Rick

    DEFENSEMEN
    Coffey, Paul
    Fetisov, Viacheslav
    Cleghorn, Sprague
    Pilote, Pierre
    Kasatonov, Alexei
    Keith, Duncan
    Wilson, Doug
    Conacher, Lionel

    GOALIES
    Hasek, Dominik
    Brimsek, Frank
    Belfour, Ed

    --------------------

    While a futile exercise; it was a blast. Especially over numerous rounds of beers. What's funny is how we all started to adopt an "identity" for our teams. The Bruins GM wanted a mean and physical identity - the Habs GM a heavy French Canadian influence, etc. For the record, I drafted for the Leafs in the 2nd position. After selecting Bobby Orr 2nd overall, I decided to build my club around defense.

    Any thoughts, observations, contributions, feedback?
     
  2. Theokritos

    Theokritos Moderator

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    I'd like to see the projected lineups. :nod:
     
  3. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

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    Are those listed in order of draftees (per position of course)?

    If so - for example it jumps out at me how low McDavid is picked. 0 track record maybe but he's pegged as a much higher caliber player than forwards on his own team, let alone others.
     
  4. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    Well, here's what I was thinking with mine (Toronto):

    FORWARD LINES
    (L) Hull, Bobby - (C) Mikita, Stan - (R) Lindros, Eric
    (L) Sundin, Mats (C) Forsberg, Peter - (R) Makarov, Sergei
    (L) Alfredsson, Daniel (C) Getzlaf, Ryan - (R) Hull, Brett
    (L) Gainey, Bob - (C) Clarke, Bobby - (R) Keon, Dave

    DEFENSE PAIRINGS
    Orr, Bobby - Harvey, Doug
    Pronger, Chris - MacInnis, Al
    Stevens, Scott - Leetch, Brian

    STARTING GOALIE
    Brodeur, Martin

    --------------------

    BENCH / SCRATCHES
    (F) Clark, Wendel
    (F) Oates, Adam
    (F) Kerr, Tim
    (D) Weber, Shea
    (D) Hedman, Victor
    (G) Broda, Turk
    (G) Fuhr, Grant
     
  5. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    Any team picking 3rd and ending up with Lemieux, Beliveau, Roy and Bourque necessarily had a serious steal really early on, despite picking Lemieux too early (I suppose...).
     
  6. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    Bob, no. That is not the exact order. For example, Bobby Orr was drafted 2nd overall by the Leafs - not Bobby Hull, etc.

    But to answer your question - McDavid was selected as the last pick in the 10th round by the Rangers. Potentially a "reach" but the Rangers GM already had Gretzky and wanted them both. I'm sure sentiment played a part. It's human nature - drafted for the Leafs, I was considering players like Wendel Clark, Dave Keon, Mats Sundin, etc. ... both on merit as well as sentiment. :)
     
  7. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    But seriously... you and your friends were pretty good come to think of it. There's no team that look real bad, other than MAYBE Chicago
     
  8. Hobnobs

    Hobnobs Pinko

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    Yup, I agree. Obviously we could nitpick but this is a pretty good draft result.
     
  9. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    Good observation. Here's how the first 3 rounds went...

    ROUND 1
    1) NYR - Gretzky, Wayne
    2) TOR - Orr, Bobby
    3) MTL - Lemieux, Mario
    4) DET - Howe, Gordie
    5) BOS - Messier, Mark
    6) CHI - Crosby, Sidney

    ROUND 2
    7) CHI - Jagr, Jaromir
    8) BOS - Shore, Eddie
    9) DET - Lidstrom, Nicklas
    10) MTL - Bourque, Raymond
    11) TOR - Hull, Bobby
    12) NYR - Richard, Maurice

    ROUND 3
    13) NYR - Potvin, Denis
    14) TOR - Harvey, Doug
    15) MTL - Beliveau, Jean
    16) DET - Yzerman, Steve
    17) BOS - Ovechkin, Alexander
    18) CHI - Coffey, Paul

    Consider that this is not truly a reflection of a players' overall greatness ranking, but how us GMs decided to build our teams over beers. For example, I'm sure some players are "reaches" where picked, but there were certain dynamics in play...

    1. Goalies went later than probably should because there were so many great ones and you really only need 1 or 2 to carry your team. The 1st goalie taken was Dominik Hasek by the Hawks at the (4.1) position - 1st pick in the 4th round.

    2. Teams were being built based on identity - more so the Bruins and Habs. As I said, the Bruins GM wanted a mean, physical team - hence Messier, Shore, Ovechkin and Robinson as their first 4 picks.
     
  10. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    What's funny is as this was going on, the Chicago GM was saying, "you guys keep picking these beefy goons and you won't be able to catch my team and I'll destroy you on the powerplay." :laugh: He might have a point though. If the games were being played today, some of those flashy, fast snipers like Kharlamov, Bure, Selanne, Kariya, Fedorov, would be hard to stop. And with Coffey running the point on the PP.

    The Hawks would certainly win games 8-7 ... unless Hasek either plays out of his mind or implodes.
     
  11. Hobnobs

    Hobnobs Pinko

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    They have Cleghorn. Cleghorn will kill anyone trying to do some foul **** to the technical players. :laugh:
     
  12. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

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    Gretzky feeding the pack to Maurice Richard during primes would be a sight to see. It's hard to directly evaluate how great a goal-scorer Richard really was all-time because eras are so different from one another. But if he's anywhere as good as I think he is, this launches him to ridiculous heights playing with Gretzky. During the 80s he breaks 100 goals per season easy, if not more. Right?

    I don't know if Montreal would ever lose with those goalies. Lemieux - arguably the most talented player in the history of the sport. And their defense is pretty damn solid overall too.
     
  13. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    I'm trying to come with the best player not picked, and ...
    Martin St-Louis?

    (WTF Habs GM!)
     
  14. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    Come to think of it, Boston and Chicago are the two-worse looking teams. And Boston is probably worse than Chicago.
     
  15. ImporterExporter

    ImporterExporter I troll harder than Poppy

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    How in the heck to you get Orr, Hull and Harvey on one team haha???
     
  16. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Great effort. :handclap: Did you guys have any notes?

    For next time, these are undrafted all-time greats (clearly better than some you guys drafted):

    Frank Boucher, C
    Elmer Lach, C
    Norm Ullman, C
    Nels Stewart, C
    Alex Delvecchio, C/LW
    Alex Maltsev, C/RW
    Bill Cowley, C
    Marty Barry, C
    Jean Ratelle, C
    Darryl Sittler, C
    Mickey MacKay, C
    Henrik Zetterberg, C/LW

    Bryan Hextall, Sr., RW
    Martin St. Louis, RW
    Didier Pitre, RW/D
    Vladimir Martinec, RW
    Hooley Smith, C/RW
    Gordie Drillon, RW
    Yvan Cournoyer, RW
    Theoren Fleury, RW

    Cy Denneny, LW
    Sid Abel, C/LW
    Doug Bentley, LW
    Busher Jackson, LW
    Roy Conacher, LW
    Sweeney Schriner, LW
    Syd Howe, LW/C
    Tommy Phillips, LW
    Bert Olmstead, LW
    Alex Yakushev, LW

    Black Jack Stewart, D
    Eddie Gerard, D/LW
    Ebbie Goodfellow, D/C
    J.C. Tremblay, D
    Ching Johnson, D
    Moose Johnson, D
    Hod Stuart, D
    Jan Suchy, D
    Butch Bouchard, D
    Georges Boucher, D
    Carl Brewer, D
    Babe Siebert, D/LW
    Tom Johnson, D
    Frantisek Pospisil, D
    Art Coulter, D
    Harry Cameron, D
    Harvey Pulford, D
    Sylvio Mantha, D
    Ken Reardon, D
    Harry Howell, D

    Charlie Gardiner, G
    Clint Benedict, G
    Bill Durnan, G
    Johnny Bower, G
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  17. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    So, based on undrafteds, DROP:

    NYR: McDavid, Gillies, Anderson, Barber, Price
    TOR: Clark, Alfredsson, Getzlaf, Kerr, Hedman, Fuhr
    MON: Goulet, Subban
    DET: Shutt, Nieuwendyk, Konstantinov, Lundqvist
    BOS: Tkachuk, LeClair, Mogilny, Thornton, Gartner, Roenick, Suter, Housley, Smith, Esposito
    CHI: Toews, Tocchet, Wilson, Belfour
     
  18. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    Van, we were at a bar and started doing this top of mind. We each took a flier from the shelf and asked the bartenders for pens and went to town. A couple of times we referenced our phones but nothing intense. This was 90% off-the-cuff, hence why some people fell and some got drafted a bit earlier, etc.

    And thank you for taking the time to read, digest and offer names for the next effort! :handclap:

    As an aside, I'm the Leafs GM and I'm trying to trade Doug Harvey to the Habs for Ray Bourque (so I can have an Orr-Bourque dream pairing) and so far he's not biting :laugh: I think Harvey for Bourque is a very fair trade, if anything, I believe I'm giving him the edge. But he wanted to build his Habs around Mario, Beliveau, Bourque and Roy.
     
  19. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Ah, I thought so! Next time you guys draft at the pub, surf the 'net on your smartphone, go to the All-Time Draft board here at HfBoards. Click on the most recent all-time draft, which is ATD 2017. Here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2194683

    And you and your friends are welcome to join our next all-time draft, ATD 2018, starting in January as usual.:)

    BTW, among undrafteds, this would make an all-time great bottom-6 role line that would rock even against the O6 squads you guys built:

    Doug Bentley - Norm Ullman - Hooley Smith :yo:

    Click on their names for linked bios showing their two-way greatness.
     
  20. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    Thanks, Van. You're the best. :handclap:
     
  21. SovietWings

    SovietWings Registered User

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    My first question when I read this was: Is this roster stronger or weaker than best possible team picked from Canadiens only?
    At the first sight I think that the All-time All-star team selected from the players of Montreal Canadiens would be better than this, but maybe I am wrong? (Goalies would be the same, but the rest?)
     
  22. Hobnobs

    Hobnobs Pinko

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    Maybe. Defense would be Larry Robinson, Doug Harvey, Emile Bouchard, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and Chris Chelios? Is that right? Or did I forget someone?
     
  23. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    Cleghorn, Reardon, Laperrière. All arguably.
     
  24. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

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    I know i'll get accused of being biased as a big Lemieux fan but - better. Because of Lemieux.

    And i didn't even look at the roster super in-depth before saying so. Lemieux alone is enough of an x-factor that I'd pick this team over an all-time Canadiens lineup.
     

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