All-time Original Six re-draft

[Boxscore]

(I'm sorry if this is not the right place on the boards to place this, but it is historical in nature so I assumed it was. If not, could a Mod please revise?)

So, premise...

A. Over the weekend, five buddies and myself had a table at the pub and, being the nerds we are, decided to re-draft for the Original Six teams using every player in hockey history.

B. All players based on prime play (*except for McDavid obviously).

C. Draft order was selected at random: (1) New York, (2) Toronto, (3) Montreal, (4) Detroit, (5) Boston, (6) Chicago. Draft was a "snake draft" - meaning Chicago drafted 6th and 7th, etc.

D. I know we forgot some players.

Here were the results...


(1st)

FORWARDS
Gretzky, Wayne
Richard, Maurice
Lafleur, Guy
Trottier, Bryan
Bucyk, Johnny
Kurri, Jari
McDavid, Connor
Shanahan, Brendan
Stastny, Peter
Gillies, Clark
Gilbert, Rod
Datsyuk, Pavel
LaFontaine, Pat
Anderson, Glenn
Barber, Bill

DEFENSEMEN
Potvin, Denis
Park, Brad
Karlsson, Erik
Gadsby, Bill
Blake, Rob
Vasiliev, Valeri
Pronovost, Marcel
Murphy, Larry

GOALIES
Hall, Glenn
Parent, Bernie
Price, Carey

--------------------

(2nd)

FORWARDS
Hull, Bobby
Clarke, Bobby
Mikita, Stan
Lindros, Eric
Forsberg, Peter
Makarov, Sergei
Gainey, Bob
Keon, Dave
Hull, Brett
Sundin, Mats
Clark, Wendel
Alfredsson, Daniel
Getzlaf, Ryan
Kerr, Tim
Oates, Adam

DEFENSEMEN
Orr, Bobby
Harvey, Doug
Pronger, Chris
Stevens, Scott
MacInnis, Al
Leetch, Brian
Weber, Shea
Hedman, Victor

GOALIES
Brodeur, Martin
Broda, Turk
Fuhr, Grant

--------------------

(3rd)

FORWARDS
Lemieux, Mario
Beliveau, Jean
Bossy, Mike
Sakic, Joe
Mahovlich, Frank
Joliat, Aurele
Malone, Joe
Firsov, Anatoly
Iginla, Jarome
Richard, Henri
Nighbor, Frank
Goulet, Michel
Robitaille, Luc
Gilmour, Doug
Modano, Mike

DEFENSEMEN
Bourque, Raymond
Kelly, Leonard (Red)
Langway, Rod
Savard, Serge
Niedermayer, Scott
Lapointe, Guy
Subban, P.K.
Laperriere, Jacques

GOALIES
Roy, Patrick
Dryden, Ken
Vezina, Georges

--------------------

(4th)

FORWARDS
Howe, Gordie
Yzerman, Steve
Morenz, Howie
Lindsay, Ted
Dionne, Marcel
Taylor, Fred (Cyclone)
Francis, Ron
Mikhailov, Boris
Perreault, Gilbert
Bathgate, Andy
Hossa, Marian
Shutt, Steve
Hawerchuk, Dale
Krutov, Vladimir
Nieuwendyk, Joe

DEFENSEMEN
Lidstrom, Nicklas
Chelios, Chris
Salming, Borje
Seibert, Earl
Howe, Mark
Doughty, Drew
Konstantinov, Vladimir
Zubov, Sergei

GOALIES
Plante, Jacques
Tretiak, Vladislav
Lundqvist, Henrik

--------------------

(5th)

FORWARDS
Messier, Mark
Ovechkin, Alexander
Esposito, Phil
Cook, Bill
Conacher, Charlie
Schmidt, Milt
Apps, Syl Sr.
Neely, Cam
Tkachuk, Keith
Blake, Hector (Toe)
LeClair, John
Mogilny, Alexander
Thornton, Joe
Gartner, Mike
Roenick, Jeremy

DEFENSEMEN
Shore, Eddie
Robinson, Larry
Clancy, Francis (King)
Horton, Tim
Chara, Zdeno
Clapper, Aubrey (Dit)
Suter, Ryan
Housley, Phil

GOALIES
Sawchuk, Terry
Smith, Billy
Esposito, Tony

--------------------

(6th)

FORWARDS
Crosby, Sidney
Jagr, Jaromir
Kharlamov, Valeri
Lalonde, Edouard (Newsy)
Malkin, Evgeni
Bure, Pavel
Geoffrion, Bernard (Boom Boom)
Selanne, Teemu
Fedorov, Sergei
Moore, Dickie
Bentley, Max
Kariya, Paul
Toews, Jonathan
Kane, Patrick
Tocchet, Rick

DEFENSEMEN
Coffey, Paul
Fetisov, Viacheslav
Cleghorn, Sprague
Pilote, Pierre
Kasatonov, Alexei
Keith, Duncan
Wilson, Doug
Conacher, Lionel

GOALIES
Hasek, Dominik
Brimsek, Frank
Belfour, Ed

--------------------

While a futile exercise; it was a blast. Especially over numerous rounds of beers. What's funny is how we all started to adopt an "identity" for our teams. The Bruins GM wanted a mean and physical identity - the Habs GM a heavy French Canadian influence, etc. For the record, I drafted for the Leafs in the 2nd position. After selecting Bobby Orr 2nd overall, I decided to build my club around defense.

Any thoughts, observations, contributions, feedback?

Click to read more...

 

[Theokritos]

I'd like to see the projected lineups.

 

[bobholly39]

Are those listed in order of draftees (per position of course)?

If so - for example it jumps out at me how low McDavid is picked. 0 track record maybe but he's pegged as a much higher caliber player than forwards on his own team, let alone others.

 

[Boxscore]

I'd like to see the projected lineups.

Well, here's what I was thinking with mine (Toronto):

FORWARD LINES
(L) Hull, Bobby - (C) Mikita, Stan - (R) Lindros, Eric
(L) Sundin, Mats (C) Forsberg, Peter - (R) Makarov, Sergei
(L) Alfredsson, Daniel (C) Getzlaf, Ryan - (R) Hull, Brett
(L) Gainey, Bob - (C) Clarke, Bobby - (R) Keon, Dave

DEFENSE PAIRINGS
Orr, Bobby - Harvey, Doug
Pronger, Chris - MacInnis, Al
Stevens, Scott - Leetch, Brian

STARTING GOALIE
Brodeur, Martin

--------------------

BENCH / SCRATCHES
(F) Clark, Wendel
(F) Oates, Adam
(F) Kerr, Tim
(D) Weber, Shea
(D) Hedman, Victor
(G) Broda, Turk
(G) Fuhr, Grant

 

[MXD]

Any team picking 3rd and ending up with Lemieux, Beliveau, Roy and Bourque necessarily had a serious steal really early on, despite picking Lemieux too early (I suppose...).

 

[Boxscore]

Are those listed in order of draftees (per position of course)?

If so - for example it jumps out at me how low McDavid is picked. 0 track record maybe but he's pegged as a much higher caliber player than forwards on his own team, let alone others.

Bob, no. That is not the exact order. For example, Bobby Orr was drafted 2nd overall by the Leafs - not Bobby Hull, etc.

But to answer your question - McDavid was selected as the last pick in the 10th round by the Rangers. Potentially a "reach" but the Rangers GM already had Gretzky and wanted them both. I'm sure sentiment played a part. It's human nature - drafted for the Leafs, I was considering players like Wendel Clark, Dave Keon, Mats Sundin, etc. ... both on merit as well as sentiment.

 

[MXD]

But seriously... you and your friends were pretty good come to think of it. There's no team that look real bad, other than MAYBE Chicago

 

[Hobnobs]

Yup, I agree. Obviously we could nitpick but this is a pretty good draft result.

 

[Boxscore]

Any team picking 3rd and ending up with Lemieux, Beliveau, Roy and Bourque necessarily had a serious steal really early on, despite picking Lemieux too early (I suppose...).

Good observation. Here's how the first 3 rounds went...

ROUND 1
1) NYR - Gretzky, Wayne
2) TOR - Orr, Bobby
3) MTL - Lemieux, Mario
4) DET - Howe, Gordie
5) BOS - Messier, Mark
6) CHI - Crosby, Sidney

ROUND 2
7) CHI - Jagr, Jaromir
8) BOS - Shore, Eddie
9) DET - Lidstrom, Nicklas
10) MTL - Bourque, Raymond
11) TOR - Hull, Bobby
12) NYR - Richard, Maurice

ROUND 3
13) NYR - Potvin, Denis
14) TOR - Harvey, Doug
15) MTL - Beliveau, Jean
16) DET - Yzerman, Steve
17) BOS - Ovechkin, Alexander
18) CHI - Coffey, Paul

Consider that this is not truly a reflection of a players' overall greatness ranking, but how us GMs decided to build our teams over beers. For example, I'm sure some players are "reaches" where picked, but there were certain dynamics in play...

1. Goalies went later than probably should because there were so many great ones and you really only need 1 or 2 to carry your team. The 1st goalie taken was Dominik Hasek by the Hawks at the (4.1) position - 1st pick in the 4th round.

2. Teams were being built based on identity - more so the Bruins and Habs. As I said, the Bruins GM wanted a mean, physical team - hence Messier, Shore, Ovechkin and Robinson as their first 4 picks.

 

[Boxscore]

But seriously... you and your friends were pretty good come to think of it. There's no team that look real bad, other than MAYBE Chicago

What's funny is as this was going on, the Chicago GM was saying, "you guys keep picking these beefy goons and you won't be able to catch my team and I'll destroy you on the powerplay." He might have a point though. If the games were being played today, some of those flashy, fast snipers like Kharlamov, Bure, Selanne, Kariya, Fedorov, would be hard to stop. And with Coffey running the point on the PP.

The Hawks would certainly win games 8-7 ... unless Hasek either plays out of his mind or implodes.

 

[Hobnobs]

What's funny is as this was going on, the Chicago GM was saying, "you guys keep picking these beefy goons and you won't be able to catch my team and I'll destroy you on the powerplay." He might have a point though. If the games were being played today, some of those flashy, fast snipers like Kharlamov, Bure, Selanne, Kariya, Fedorov, would be hard to stop. And with Coffey running the point on the PP.

The Hawks would certainly win games 8-7 ... unless Hasek either plays out of his mind or implodes.

They have Cleghorn. Cleghorn will kill anyone trying to do some foul **** to the technical players.

 

[bobholly39]

Gretzky feeding the pack to Maurice Richard during primes would be a sight to see. It's hard to directly evaluate how great a goal-scorer Richard really was all-time because eras are so different from one another. But if he's anywhere as good as I think he is, this launches him to ridiculous heights playing with Gretzky. During the 80s he breaks 100 goals per season easy, if not more. Right?

I don't know if Montreal would ever lose with those goalies. Lemieux - arguably the most talented player in the history of the sport. And their defense is pretty damn solid overall too.

 

[MXD]

I'm trying to come with the best player not picked, and ...
Martin St-Louis?

(WTF Habs GM!)

 

[MXD]

What's funny is as this was going on, the Chicago GM was saying, "you guys keep picking these beefy goons and you won't be able to catch my team and I'll destroy you on the powerplay." He might have a point though. If the games were being played today, some of those flashy, fast snipers like Kharlamov, Bure, Selanne, Kariya, Fedorov, would be hard to stop. And with Coffey running the point on the PP.

The Hawks would certainly win games 8-7 ... unless Hasek either plays out of his mind or implodes.

Come to think of it, Boston and Chicago are the two-worse looking teams. And Boston is probably worse than Chicago.

 

[ImporterExporter]

How in the heck to you get Orr, Hull and Harvey on one team haha???

 

[VanIslander]

Over the weekend, five buddies and myself had a table at the pub and, being the nerds we are, decided to re-draft for the Original Six teams using every player in hockey history.

Any thoughts, observations, contributions, feedback?

Great effort. Did you guys have any notes?

For next time, these are undrafted all-time greats (clearly better than some you guys drafted):

Frank Boucher, C
Elmer Lach, C
Norm Ullman, C
Nels Stewart, C
Alex Delvecchio, C/LW
Alex Maltsev, C/RW
Bill Cowley, C
Marty Barry, C
Jean Ratelle, C
Darryl Sittler, C
Mickey MacKay, C
Henrik Zetterberg, C/LW

Bryan Hextall, Sr., RW
Martin St. Louis, RW
Didier Pitre, RW/D
Vladimir Martinec, RW
Hooley Smith, C/RW
Gordie Drillon, RW
Yvan Cournoyer, RW
Theoren Fleury, RW

Cy Denneny, LW
Sid Abel, C/LW
Doug Bentley, LW
Busher Jackson, LW
Roy Conacher, LW
Sweeney Schriner, LW
Syd Howe, LW/C
Tommy Phillips, LW
Bert Olmstead, LW
Alex Yakushev, LW

Black Jack Stewart, D
Eddie Gerard, D/LW
Ebbie Goodfellow, D/C
J.C. Tremblay, D
Ching Johnson, D
Moose Johnson, D
Hod Stuart, D
Jan Suchy, D
Butch Bouchard, D
Georges Boucher, D
Carl Brewer, D
Babe Siebert, D/LW
Tom Johnson, D
Frantisek Pospisil, D
Art Coulter, D
Harry Cameron, D
Harvey Pulford, D
Sylvio Mantha, D
Ken Reardon, D
Harry Howell, D

Charlie Gardiner, G
Clint Benedict, G
Bill Durnan, G
Johnny Bower, G

 

[VanIslander]

So, based on undrafteds, DROP:

NYR: McDavid, Gillies, Anderson, Barber, Price
TOR: Clark, Alfredsson, Getzlaf, Kerr, Hedman, Fuhr
MON: Goulet, Subban
DET: Shutt, Nieuwendyk, Konstantinov, Lundqvist
BOS: Tkachuk, LeClair, Mogilny, Thornton, Gartner, Roenick, Suter, Housley, Smith, Esposito
CHI: Toews, Tocchet, Wilson, Belfour

 

[Boxscore]

Great effort. Did you guys have any notes?

For next time, these are undrafted all-time greats (clearly better than some you guys drafted):

Frank Boucher, C
Elmer Lach, C
Norm Ullman, C
Nels Stewart, C
Alex Delvecchio, C/LW
Alex Maltsev, C/RW
Bill Cowley, C
Marty Barry, C
Jean Ratelle, C
Darryl Sittler, C
Mickey MacKay, C
Henrik Zetterberg, C/LW

Bryan Hextall, Sr., RW
Martin St. Louis, RW
Didier Pitre, RW/D
Vladimir Martinec, RW
Hooley Smith, C/RW
Gordie Drillon, RW
Yvan Cournoyer, RW
Theoren Fleury, RW

Cy Denneny, LW
Sid Abel, C/LW
Doug Bentley, LW
Busher Jackson, LW
Roy Conacher, LW
Sweeney Schriner, LW
Syd Howe, LW/C
Tommy Phillips, LW
Bert Olmstead, LW
Alex Yakushev, LW

Black Jack Stewart, D
Eddie Gerard, D/LW
Ebbie Goodfellow, D/C
J.C. Tremblay, D
Ching Johnson, D
Moose Johnson, D
Hod Stuart, D
Jan Suchy, D
Butch Bouchard, D
Georges Boucher, D
Carl Brewer, D
Babe Siebert, D/LW
Tom Johnson, D
Frantisek Pospisil, D
Art Coulter, D
Harry Cameron, D
Harvey Pulford, D
Sylvio Mantha, D
Ken Reardon, D
Harry Howell, D

Charlie Gardiner, G
Clint Benedict, G
Bill Durnan, G
Johnny Bower, G

Van, we were at a bar and started doing this top of mind. We each took a flier from the shelf and asked the bartenders for pens and went to town. A couple of times we referenced our phones but nothing intense. This was 90% off-the-cuff, hence why some people fell and some got drafted a bit earlier, etc.

And thank you for taking the time to read, digest and offer names for the next effort!

As an aside, I'm the Leafs GM and I'm trying to trade Doug Harvey to the Habs for Ray Bourque (so I can have an Orr-Bourque dream pairing) and so far he's not biting I think Harvey for Bourque is a very fair trade, if anything, I believe I'm giving him the edge. But he wanted to build his Habs around Mario, Beliveau, Bourque and Roy.

 

[VanIslander]

A couple of times we referenced our phones but nothing intense.

Ah, I thought so! Next time you guys draft at the pub, surf the 'net on your smartphone, go to the All-Time Draft board here at HfBoards. Click on the most recent all-time draft, which is ATD 2017. Here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2194683

And you and your friends are welcome to join our next all-time draft, ATD 2018, starting in January as usual.

BTW, among undrafteds, this would make an all-time great bottom-6 role line that would rock even against the O6 squads you guys built:

Doug Bentley - Norm Ullman - Hooley Smith

Click on their names for linked bios showing their two-way greatness.

 

[Boxscore]

Ah, I thought so! Next time you surf the 'net on your smartphone, go to the All-Time Draft board here at HfBoards. Click on the most recent all-time draft, which is ATD 2017. Here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2194683

And you and your friends are welcome to join our next all-time draft, ATD 2018, starting in January as usual.

BTW, among undrafteds, this would make an all-time great bottom-6 role line that would rock even against the O6 squads you guys built:

Doug Bentley - Norm Ullman - Hooley Smith

Click on their names for linked bios showing their two-way greatness.

Thanks, Van. You're the best.

 

[SovietWings]

(3rd)

FORWARDS
Lemieux, Mario
Beliveau, Jean
Bossy, Mike
Sakic, Joe
Mahovlich, Frank
Joliat, Aurele
Malone, Joe
Firsov, Anatoly
Iginla, Jarome
Richard, Henri
Nighbor, Frank
Goulet, Michel
Robitaille, Luc
Gilmour, Doug
Modano, Mike

DEFENSEMEN
Bourque, Raymond
Kelly, Leonard (Red)
Langway, Rod
Savard, Serge
Niedermayer, Scott
Lapointe, Guy
Subban, P.K.
Laperriere, Jacques

GOALIES
Roy, Patrick
Dryden, Ken
Vezina, Georges

My first question when I read this was: Is this roster stronger or weaker than best possible team picked from Canadiens only?
At the first sight I think that the All-time All-star team selected from the players of Montreal Canadiens would be better than this, but maybe I am wrong? (Goalies would be the same, but the rest?)

 

[Hobnobs]

My first question when I read this was: Is this roster stronger or weaker than best possible team picked from Canadiens only?
At the first sight I think that the All-time All-star team selected from the players of Montreal Canadiens would be better than this, but maybe I am wrong? (Goalies would be the same, but the rest?)

Maybe. Defense would be Larry Robinson, Doug Harvey, Emile Bouchard, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and Chris Chelios? Is that right? Or did I forget someone?

 

[MXD]

Maybe. Defense would be Larry Robinson, Doug Harvey, Emile Bouchard, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and Chris Chelios? Is that right? Or did I forget someone?

Cleghorn, Reardon, Laperrière. All arguably.

 

[bobholly39]

My first question when I read this was: Is this roster stronger or weaker than best possible team picked from Canadiens only?
At the first sight I think that the All-time All-star team selected from the players of Montreal Canadiens would be better than this, but maybe I am wrong? (Goalies would be the same, but the rest?)

I know i'll get accused of being biased as a big Lemieux fan but - better. Because of Lemieux.

And i didn't even look at the roster super in-depth before saying so. Lemieux alone is enough of an x-factor that I'd pick this team over an all-time Canadiens lineup.