All Time Draft - Round 1 - Las Vegas Thunder at Portland Buckaroos

[shawnmullin]

Las Vegas Thunder

General Managers: shawnmullin and Van Islander
Coach: Scotty Bowman
Captain: Ron Francis
Alternate: Butch Goring
Alternate: Brian Leetch

Valery Kharlamov (LW) - Igor Larionov (C) - Vladimir Vikulov (RW)
Red Berenson (LW) - Ron Francis (C) - Jari Kurri (RW)
Esa Tikkanen (LW) - Butch Goring (C) - Mark Recchi (RW)
Jay Pandolfo (LW) - Terry Crisp (C) - Jerry Toppazzini (RW)
Milan Novy (Extra)

Serge Savard (D) - Dave Burrows (D)
Dallas Smith (D) - Brian Leetch (D)
Gennady Tsygankov (D) - Tomas Jonsson (D)
Ron Stewart (D)

Tiny Thompson (G)
Tom Barrasso (G)
Nikolai Khabibulin (G)

PP: Kharlamov - Larionov - Kurri - Leetch - Francis
Berensen - Goring - Recchi - Savard - Jonsson

PK: Goring-Tikkanen-Savard-Burrows
Francis-Kurri-Leetch-Tsygankov/Smith
​

AT.

PORTLAND BUCKAROOS

coach: Dick IRVIN SR.

Ken HODGE - Phil ESPOSITO - Wayne CASHMAN
Johnny BUCYK - Denis SAVARD - Rick TOCCHET
Cy DENNENY - Don MCKENNY - Rick KEHOE
Marty PAVELICH - Stephane YELLE - Mike FOLIGNO
Martin GELINAS

Doug WILSON - Carl BREWER
Ulf SAMUELSSON - Jim SCHOENFELD
Reijo RUOSTALAINEN - Vladimir LUTCHENKO
Doug LIDSTER

Dominik HASEK
Sean BURKE
Evgeni NABOKOV​

Click to read more...

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

Well this is going to be an offensive battle as neither team has a great defense or really great defensively minded forwards (Goring is the best of a rather average bunch in my opinion).

Vegas Keys to Victory
- Figure out a way to beat Hasek, this can be done though crashing the net (I don`t think you have the right team for crashing the net though) or by some other form of attack for when Hasek is on his game he can win a series by himself it seems.
- Win the battles in front of the net - Need your physical defenseman to take care of players such as Esposito who will take advantage of any room in the slot to bang home the garbage goals.
- Offense from the blueline: A strong performance from Leetch is necessary in my opinion for the Thunder to have a chance.
- Transition game and using speed.

Vegas Pitfalls
- Playoff questionmarks: Some of the players don`t have the playoff experience that can be seen on Portland (Kharlamov and Vikulov most noticable examples)
- Defense: Two good to great playoff performers and some good depth guys but is more needed in the playoffs.


------

Portland Keys to Victory
1. Control the Slot - Big bodies in front of the net should allow for Portland to get some garbage goals.
2. Make use of the physical advantage: Portland has a bigger team and that could prove to be handfulls for some of the smaller Vegas players.
3. Hasek: What more needs to be said.

Portland Pitfalls
1. Defensive coverage: An average group at best could result in problems for the entire team in the playoffs as defense does win championships as they say.
2. Lack of defensive forwards - will they be able to hold off some of the potent offensive potential from Vegas
3. Slow team in general.

 

[shawnmullin]

Well this is going to be an offensive battle as neither team has a great defense or really great defensively minded forwards (Goring is the best of a rather average bunch in my opinion).

Baloney. We built our team on strong two-way forwards. Larionov, Francis (Selke winner), Kurri, Tik, Goring, and the entire 4th line are all strong defensive forwards who we can use to key in on top players. To say they're an average bunch defensively is in my view completely wrong.

As for Portland, I'd have to do my research on their players (which I have yet to do) but I'm fairly sure it'd be fair to say Cashman, Yelle and Gelinas are at least good defensively.

Vegas Pitfalls
- Playoff questionmarks: Some of the players don`t have the playoff experience that can be seen on Portland (Kharlamov and Vikulov most noticable examples)

You make it sound like their lack of NHL playoff experience is something they could've controlled. They were Russian stars who played in huge, playoff like games in international competition against teams like Canada and the Czech's who were more talented than any team in the NHL playoffs.

However, pointing on those two players to make it sound like our roster lacks playoff experience would be a giant mistake.

Stanley Cups? Larionov has 3, Francis has 2, Kurri has 5, Tik has 4, Goring has 4, Recchi has 2, Pandolfo has 2, Crisp has 2, Leetch has 1, Smith has 2, Savard has 6, Jonsson has 2, Stewart has 3 IIRC, Thompson has a cup, Barasso has 2 and Khabibulain has 1.

Not to mention the coach having 9 cups.

Also Toppanzzini and Berenson I know have at least been to the finals on multiple occasions.

The only players on our team you can point to with a lack of playoff experience are Russians who never played in the NHL. How many of those players do we have? 3 out of the entire roster.

Just off the top of my head (and it's hard to be completely accurate here) there are 42 Stanley Cup rings on the roster not counting Bowman's 9.

 

[raleh]

Vegas is one of my favorite teams in the draft as I said earlier. I had them first in their division and I think they'll perform well in the playoffs.


I love the players in Portland. In fact in ATD #5 I had Hodge-Espo-Cash as my second line (there were way less teams). I think it's a great line and the chemistry they have is awesome. But with Bucyk and Tocchet on the second line, they have 5 guys in their top 6 who are below average skaters.

I think Vegas will eat them up because of that...but I've been wrong before!

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

Baloney. We built our team on strong two-way forwards. Larionov, Francis (Selke winner), Kurri, Tik, Goring, and the entire 4th line are all strong defensive forwards who we can use to key in on top players. To say they're an average bunch defensively is in my view completely wrong.

Francis is not a defensive forward, he won the award when it is was given to the best player who wasn`t horrible in his own end. Larionov was a great playmaker and one of the best centers of the 80s but he wasn`t memorable in the least on the defensive side of the puck. Tikkanen gets overrated for his defensive abilities around here it seems as though he was a great defensive player, something he was not, he was great at being a pest and getting under the skin and he wasn`t a liability on defense but I wouldn`t put him in the elite category of defensive players. Goring is the only one in the series who I would do that for.

I must say I did miss Kurri there for the main reason that I was talking about checking lines and was concentrating as a result on the third and fourth lines. I consider it an average corps in terms of defensive players.

You seem to be using little clips as to what is known about players and making judgements based on that, sure it said that Crisp was a good shutdown player on legends of hockey but past that no one seems to remember anything about the way in which he played.

I just see it as an average group in terms of defensive forwards, some solid two way players but nothing past that sticks out

-----

Edit two of your top line have never set foot inside an NHL playoff game, and I know it isn`t their fault but that has to raise a few questionmarks, you can point to Jay Pandalfo having X number of cups but the questionmarks are present around your top line players and how they will perform.

 

[shawnmullin]

Well it's pointless debating you because while you criticize my basis for suggesting these players are good defensively, your basis seems merely to be "this is what I think" so *shrug* I'll just have to respectfully disagree.

I've watched hockey myself. I've seen Francis, Larionov, Tik, Kurri and others player and play strong two-way games. Have I seen Crisp play? No. Have you watched him extensively?

Anyway this would clearly be a pointless debate to continue. I'll stand by what I've said.

 

[pitseleh]

I'd say Pavelich is an elite defensive forward.

Both teams will have good two-way play from all of their lines. But I do agree that neither have a truly elite defensive line.

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

Do you really think that Francis is an elite level defensive forward, or is that something you base entirely upon his winning of the selkè trophy. Am I saying that he was crap on the defensive side of the puck of course not, but what I am saying is he is not a player I would stick out there when I am up by 1 goal and the other team is attacking, same with Larionov. Not a bad player from a defensive standpoint but not a player who I would rely upon when I needed him.

The way I see your defensive forwards is there is Goring and then there are a bunch of solid two way players but noone that I would really say is excellent defensively.

 

[Spitfire11]

I'd say Pavelich is an elite defensive forward.

Both teams will have good two-way play from all of their lines. But I do agree that neither have a truly elite defensive line.

Pavelich is one of the best in the draft, right up there with Gainey, Carbonneau and Co. I'm guessing he'd be assigned to Kurri for this match-up. Foligno was also decent in his own end although you won't be seeing him shut anyone down.

This will be a very close series.

 

[VanIslander]

Ron Francis is the captain of the Las Vegas Thunder.

"In Pittsburgh, Francis was the number two centerman behind Mario Lemieux. This allowed him the opportunity to concentrate on his defensive responsibilities and become one of the premier defensive forwards in the game (while keeping up his offensive success)."

http://puckstopshere.blogspot.com/2005/09/future-hall-of-famer-ron-francis_14.html

"Maybe one day the NHL will create the Ron Francis Trophy, an award that goes to the traded player who does the most to help his new team toward a Stanley Cup. The award would be named for the player most analysts cite as the key addition to the Pittsburgh Penguins' teams that won the 1991 and 1992 Stanley Cups."

http://www.nhl.com/features/tradewinds030606.html

"If it's possible to be the No. 2 man in assists [all time] and be underrated, Ronnie was," said Ray Ferraro, a Whalers teammate from 1984-90. "He was so understated. He didn't beat his chest and tell everybody how good he was. And he was almost elegant in the way he played."

http://www.hartfordwhalers.org/francis_ron.htm

Says Mario:

When you talk about the total professional, someone who takes everything about his game seriously and who is a true team player, that's Ron Francis," says Lemieux. "He isn't fancy or flashy, but he's as solid as they come. If you need a guy to win faceoffs, he does it. If you need a guy to kill penalties or work the power play, he does it. He can play the point, too. If you want a leader, even if he isn't loud or outspoken, that's Ron. Everyone who has played with him would tell you the same thing."

Says an NHL defenseman about his defensive ability:

"He's amazing to play with in your own end. He just knows where to be," veteran Carolina defenseman Glen Wesley says. "It's automatic. He's just very good at reading those situations. You feel good when he's out there, because you know he's going to be there to help you out."

Says his NHL coach about the 6'4 "quietest superstar":

"Francis is just genetically superior," Maurice says. "At his age (38), he can go through one of these practices and at the end of them you are thinking, `Gee, I hope I didn't hurt that guy today' and he's barely sweating. He might be a closet workout guy who goes home and works out and doesn't tell anyone."

When Maurice runs sprint drills at the end of practices in training camp, he can count on Francis leading the charge.

"That's just a great thing for a coach. How can you be 23 years old and skate like the wind and not be able to stay with a guy who is 38?" Maurice asks. "I didn't even have to say it because everybody on the ice was thinking it, saying, `Man, I've got to catch this guy and I can't.'"

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCM/is_7_29/ai_73023301/pg_3

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

VanIslander what the hell are you talking about I didn't insult your team, I said I don't think you had an elite checking line, something that others agree with and you and your bloody victim complex where of course I am out to upset your team. I gave my opinion, I pointed out the obvious keys to victory for each team. It only turned into me poking holes in your self-induced view of the perfect team when your partner picked a couple of the smallest parts and extrapolated that into an attack against your team. I guess you skimmed over the parts where I consisered your team a faster team and that speed could prove to be problematic for the slower Portland team... that wouldn't fit into your view that everyone is out to get you and ruin your team.

And regarding the last draft - your team wasn't as good as you like to think it was and I called you on it. Every team has holes in this draft and you don't seem to be able to accept that. I say your defense is weak and you take that as some kind of personal attack against yourself, well here is the newsflash - your defense is weak, probably one of the worst 5 in the draft and that is being kind. You are going to have to rely on your top two defenseman as well as your two-way forwards if you want to have any chance of victory, especially when you consider Leetch's occassionaly indifferent play in his own end. You will need a strong transition game to make the slower Portland forwards main weakness in their skating abilities (or lack there of) more evident.

I question the selection of Crisp and you go off the deep end. Just relax and debate everything in a manner where you don't take everything personally, it just reflects poorly upon yourself.

 

[shawnmullin]

I don't want to get further into a big personal battle... but I think what Van (and I can't speak for him) generally takes offense to is that you seem to single out his teams and try to pick them appart with sometimes what to me seem to be illogical complaints.

For instance... the team doesn't have enough playoff experience... pointing to 2 Russian players on a team full of Cup winners. And your attacking our Russian players for not proving enough in the NHL (when they had no chance to play in it) when you don't seem to do that to all the other teams with Russian players.

Do I think he should take it personally? No, because who the hell cares what one person thinks about a fake draft team ultimately. But if you reflect on your posting can you honestly say you don't pick on Van's teams more than others?

 

[VanIslander]

Also, there are so many other teams to criticize!

5 posts with criticisms of a team I'm involved with by FI#2, and counting...

a record 28 posts with criticisms last draft, resulting in my team's #1 seed being upset in the first round

... show some equality of treatment with all the other match-ups, how about all those in YOUR OWN conference!!

 

[shawnmullin]

Well I'd hope the other GMs around here won't let any one person have undue influence on them.

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

I don't want to get further into a big personal battle... but I think what Van (and I can't speak for him) generally takes offense to is that you seem to single out his teams and try to pick them appart with sometimes what to me seem to be illogical complaints.

For instance... the team doesn't have enough playoff experience... pointing to 2 Russian players on a team full of Cup winners. And your attacking our Russian players for not proving enough in the NHL (when they had no chance to play in it) when you don't seem to do that to all the other teams with Russian players.

Do I think he should take it personally? No, because who the hell cares what one person thinks about a fake draft team ultimately. But if you reflect on your posting can you honestly say you don't pick on Van's teams more than others?

I just don't see your team as a team made up of playoff warriors, I was only really going on first impressions, look at Larionov for instance - yes he does have three stanley cups, but at the same time how many of those teams did he play a prominant role. Chris Dingman has two cups, I wouldn't really say that he is a playoff performer as a result.

The real strong forward playoff performers on your team from an initial assessment would be Goring, Kurri, Tikkanen and Francis. You can show me that Terry Crisp has two cups, but the fact of the matter is just winning a cup doesn't make one a solid playoff performer. If that was the case pretty much every single Montreal Canadiens player from 1945-1979 would be considered a clutch playoff performer.

--------
Edit: Did I not call Portland a slow team that seemed to lack a defensive presence which could allow his team to get picked apart. Really the only difference is that he didn't have two gms that cried about every single criticism given

 

[rt]

Why Thunder and Buckaroos? Vegas should have something to do with gambling like, "The Vegas Aces". Portland should have something to do with rain like, "The Portland Storm". Or maybe the whole Oregon Trail thing like, "The Portland Pioneers".

 

[shawnmullin]

That's not even what you said... you're talking yourself in circles.

You said...

- Playoff questionmarks: Some of the players don`t have the playoff experience that can be seen on Portland (Kharlamov and Vikulov most noticable examples)

Suddenly that's about Larionov and Crisp? Who clearly have experience but apparently didn't do enough for it to qualify as good experience.

Did you watch those Detroit teams and if you did how can you honestly say that Larionov didn't make a significant contribution to those teams? And at the back end of his career... the first part of which was spent dominating in a part of the world that you seem to pretend doesn't count. But that's your new criteria? Terry Crisp's performance in the playoffs wasn't meaningful because... you say so? What's your other basis? How old were you in 1973?

You seem to be missing the point anyway. You really don't understand why you get on Van's nerves? You really don't? Seriously?

 

[vancityluongo]

Oooh, trash talking!!!

Couple things:

-I like Portland's top D pairing. They'll be really crucial to whether or not the Bucks can win or not.

-Kurri/Francis is an awesome 2nd line pairing.

-Both teams have good goaltending, IMO. Hasek is my player to watch.

 

[shawnmullin]

Why Thunder and Buckaroos? Vegas should have something to do with gambling like, "The Vegas Aces". Portland should have something to do with rain like, "The Portland Storm". Or maybe the whole Oregon Trail thing like, "The Portland Pioneers".

They were both real teams AFAIK

 

[VanIslander]

I just don't see your team as a team made up of playoff warriors, I was only really going on first impressions, look at Larionov for instance - yes he does have three stanley cups, but at the same time how many of those teams did he play a prominant role.

I'll lert others answer this one, because many of us DO remember!

The real strong forward playoff performers on your team from an initial assessment would be Goring, Kurri, Tikkanen and Francis.

A Conn Smythe winner, two who have played like Conn Smythe winners (each have been arguably the best on their teams in a championship postseason) and Francis.

What about Recchi? Mark Recchi has 117 playoff points, 47 playoff goals, 9 playoff game-winning goals (89 GWGs over his career shows he's statistically CLUTCH). Just a year ago he had 16 playoff points and two game-winning goals in the Hurricanes Stanley Cup championship run. Recchi is a playoff performer.

You can show me that Terry Crisp has two cups, but the fact of the matter is just winning a cup doesn't make one a solid playoff performer.

He helped the Blues get to THREE Stanley Cup finals. He has 43 playoff points in 110 playoff games, most of those games his main contributions came defensively. He is the Thunder's FOURTH line centre, not exactly needed much on a team with defensive-skilled centres Goring, Francis and Larionov (Bowman put Larionov on the penalty kill in Detroit).

 

[rt]

AFAIK

Say what, now?

 

[VanIslander]

-I like Portland's top D pairing. They'll be really crucial to whether or not the Bucks can win or not.

One pairing will stop which of the three scoring lines of the Thunder?

Everytime Esposito steps onto the ice three equally big guys will be out there: Savard, Burrows and Francis, the Kurri line. Esposito respected the hell out of Dave Burrows and Serge Savard, has praised both a lot in real life, making this a most delicious postseason clash!

The Thunder's second and third lines are capable of logging the heaviest minutes when conditions dictate.

 

[vancityluongo]

One pairing will stop which of the three scoring lines of the Thunder?

Nope. I just think that they'll take away some of Vegas' scoring, forcing you to rely more on secondary scoring. Which you have.

 

[shawnmullin]

Nope. I just think that they'll take away some of Vegas' scoring, forcing you to rely more on secondary scoring. Which you have.

And I think it's a fair point. There are many great defensive pairings out there, this one too. That's why it helps to spread things out eh?

 

[raleh]

I think Savard and Burrows is as good of a shutdown tandem as almost any team in the draft.